Unacceptable Behavior

[Charles Bolivar]

7 hours ago, Roquentin said:

I'l just mention one last time when you make your hatred towards a group clear and a peace disproportionately helps you due to structural advantages, there isn't anything it for the other side. The war did no real damage to you after a certain point besides delaying accumulation. It's in your interest to accumulate more and build on the structural advantages which makes them bigger, so peace is by default in your favor as a group. Throughout the war your group has talked being in good shape and how everyone else is relatively poor all and that's it. So if they both hate us and have wanted to hit us before and is a group of people that have  a history of cooperation with relatively brief  disruptions along with their structural advantages, we don't really get much out of just a mere peace deal. You wouldn't have given up 50b or whatever at any point in exchange for a shorter war. We don't see peace as an inherent good. There has to be something in it for us that we benefit from at least equally.

Get a better econ system which encourages compound growth and individual initiative and you can have 50 billion too.

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Why would they now that you're defecating your pants? ?

Yes because pointing out they are happy to see players delete over 50b is defecating my pants. Never change Akuryo.

[Roquentin]

4 hours ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

Get a better econ system which encourages compound growth and individual initiative and you can have 50 billion too.

 

No, because that's not how it happens. In case you haven't realized it's not really a problem for us in particular. 

If you barely have to fight for years and just sit on high infra then you will get the money, especially if it happens after the collapse of the only opposition. The only way high infra like the 3k or whatever is feasible is if you don't fight. If anyway you still don't fight but sit on some infra for a long time, you will still have more money.

All of the richest alliances have of history limited warfare over the past 3 years until Knightfall and even then, it was a very minor speed bump.

 

  

4 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Why would they now that you're defecating your pants? ?

Because they're having to play dirty pool to get any impact. 

Keep that in mind.

We could have simply done the same thing when partisan did his activation request and started hitting acadia/upn with ground battles and navals. You guys have thrown all the rules out of the book and it's not a victory for you. It will never be.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Roquentin

[HARPER.txt]

6 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

It's easier just to hold my meat shields banks hostage so they don't leave UmU

 

[Guest PhantomThiefB]

7 minutes ago, Unwanted said:

 

Cute of you to chime in. Any comment on why your forcing former tCW members to delete because they don't want to be at war anymore? OHHH this is funny, your the guy that did it too.?

 

[Charles Bolivar]

37 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

No, because that's not how it happens. In case you haven't realized it's not really a problem for us in particular. 

If you barely have to fight for years and just sit on high infra then you will get the money, especially if it happens after the collapse of the only opposition. The only way high infra like the 3k or whatever is feasible is if you don't fight. If anyway you still don't fight but sit on some infra for a long time, you will still have more money.

All of the richest alliances have of history limited warfare over the past 3 years until Knightfall and even then, it was a very minor speed bump.

 

  

Because they're having to play dirty pool to get any impact. 

Keep that in mind.

We could have simply done the same thing when partisan did his activation request and started hitting acadia/upn with ground battles and navals. You guys have thrown all the rules out of the book and it's not a victory for you. It will never be.

3k infra is pretty easily attainable once you get to 20 cities actually, fighting or not. What makes it difficult is the lack of compound growth which is the major issue facing a controlled economy like NPO when every single person in an AA is forced to grow at the same pace. You are basically putting the brakes on more economically savvy individuals in your own AA who over the long run would generate far larger amounts of tax for NPO if the purse strings were loosened.

On my old nation I never had any issues fighting wars, getting wrecked entirely , depleting the warchest and quickly recovering back to 3k infra. No one could certainly accuse me of trying to avoid a war and on the same note, I never relied on a bank for handouts either for my rebuilds.

In a controlled economy like NPO's you could easily boost people to 3k, particularly if you get that 6+ month nap you are wanting and reap the rewards.

This is literally cold war economics now that I think on it.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Charles the Tyrant

[Roquentin]

2 minutes ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

3k infra is pretty easily attainable once you get to 20 cities actually, fighting or not. What makes it difficult is the lack of compound growth which is the major issue facing a controlled economy like NPO when every single person in an AA is forced to grow at the same pace. You are basically putting the brakes on more economically savvy individuals in your own AA who over the long run would generate far larger amounts of tax for NPO if the purse strings were loosened.

On my old nation I never had any issues fighting wars, getting wrecked entirely , depleting the warchest and quickly recovering back to 3k infra. No one could certainly accuse me of trying to avoid a war and on the same note, I never relied on a bank for handouts either for my rebuilds.

This is literally cold war economics now that I think on it.

 

lol

Everyone would be doing that as is if that were true. None of these alliances involved initially including your own had 3k infra at 20 cities. 

It's not at all. You have no idea of the lack of applicability of such a comparison each time you make it.

Not bothering to delve into this further as it's straying further and further. You can just ask in TGH's channel why they didn't have 3k infra before the war

[Charles Bolivar]

42 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

lol

Everyone would be doing that as is if that were true. None of these alliances involved initially including your own had 3k infra at 20 cities. 

It's not at all. You have no idea of the lack of applicability of such a comparison each time you make it.

Not bothering to delve into this further as it's straying further and further. You can just ask in TGH's channel why they didn't have 3k infra before the war

Tgh didn't have 3k infra because they fight too much. ? That's an easy statement to make but for alliances that don't fight as regularly as tgh then it's not an issue.

Plenty people do have, or had anyway, 3k infra over 20 cities and certainly more over 24 cities. Maybe not on your side of the web and certainly not in NPO because members can't go that high because they don't have the funds to do so but that's a decision made by NPO years ago iirc and had nothing to do with war frequency but because NPO's gov made the decision to deliberately cap their own tiering so NPO could maintain strength in one tier without being spread out.

It's pretty easy for a 3k infra nation to stash away their own rebuilding funds and get a head start on rebuilding post war. How the hell do you think our side of the web got so rich in the first place? You can't say oh they didn't fight when you along with UPN and co prior were the ones they were fighting in the same wars. 

 

PS, I did ask why no 3k infra in tgh, it was to do with NS ranges, not economics.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Charles the Tyrant

[Sphinx]

14 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Literally all the major peace outs were on a moral basis. Let's ask them shall we?

@Asierith @Sval @Sphinx

14 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Like which?

Carthago ran out of stuff and they didn't want to fight for the surrender term. el chach was pretty vocal that he thought we were too hated to get a surrender and should just accept white peace. Sval never said anything and has had a grudge for a long time and he has a history of ditching wars early. 

TCW: Not really moral. The arguments given were that TCW was unhappy due to war length and that they couldn't  make enough money to buy more cities so more people would be at the highest levels. These were the primary ones given. They saw the war ending as a net financial gain. That also ties into banking and other stuff. We at no point saw a moral case just that people were upset about the war length.

List goes on.

 

These are the reasons why TCW left: (For the record I only decided to switch sides legitimately 2 days before our ROH, I had planned to leave the war with some light terms, NAP etc and move on but we were forced to enter by the aggression Colo B demonstrated)

Since there's a lot let me brake it down into categories
 
Violating the treaties of TCW Allies
- Attacks upon neutral outsides and friendly alliances to TCW, (NPO hitting TMC the first time despite me mentioning they were in talks with us to sign a Prot agreement as they were leaving SOUP.) Keshav mentioned how he'd happily roll TMC again if he had the chance as they regarded them as "War dodgers" when Kev and Charlie can tell you they had planned to make their own alliance pre-Surf Up but they stayed for several months to help SOUP.
- Attacks upon allied alliances over "mass beiging", Electric Space nobody can disagree was struggling but the attack by GotG was a breach of the MDP we held, we tried to offer them help, they needed guidance not unwarranted attacks which helped kill them off, several of the Electric Space people then went on to found Demacia with other old-guard BK'ers. An alliance which Curu/Leo both called a collection of washed up BK rejects. We signed with Demacia to help people like Yoso, Supercheese etc, they were still friends/allies who were having a bad time and we wanted to help them.
- When the Gorge incident happened I said I was fine with him being rolled, but not Demacia as they had nothing to do with it, but BK rolled them anyway that was the 3rd time IQ attacked an ally/Prot of TCW.
- The final straw for violating treaties was the unproved attacks upon Ironfront and Weebunism. Yes you can claim North Point/ TMC were too aggressive and I told Aku I was pissed off that they allowed it to escalate. But the simple fact is IQ barely consulted me over the incident, you just from 0-100 and attacked for a 4th time allies of TCW. 

Actions detrimental to the game and insults to friends and allies
- If you knew our history and how so many people have tried to force harsh terms on us, or just rolled us out of the blue for no reason, you'll know TCW/GPA has never supported harsh terms. We brought this issue up many times that several terms are ridiculous and should be removed as they are prolonging a war already reaching 7+ months long, yet our concerns were rejected. 
- We were hopeful we could stay with Colo B, but as the talks unfolded it was obvious to us that Colo B was purposely producing an environment in which they knew nothing would be accepted and so the war would continue to be dragged out. Whilst I do think Colo A was unreasonable in not reaching out for peace sooner, Colo B's actions are far worse in that by dragging this war out they are causing communities on both sides of the game to crumble. 
- Afrika Korps is one such example, they were clearly unhappy and wanted out but due to the shadow of IQ looming over them if they peaced out we all know what would've happened to them. Afrika Korps was friends with many in TCW, the alliance was founded by a core of ex-Pantheon people, over half the government of AK are people who when I was de-facto leader of Pantheon I personally trained. The only reason AK disbanded was because this war lasted an obscenely long amount of time. It was salt in the wound to see Colo B people 'celebrating' the demise of an alliance which had so many friends of TCW in, several of them have since quit the game.
- On many occasions I pinged everyone on the Colo B server and asked for GOONS to stop undermining, insulting or otherwise threatening our protectorates and allies. From alliances such as The Manhattan Cartel, Weebunism, Afrika Korps and others several members were banned and others issues nation strikes for frivolous rubbish only because the admin is a jellyfish who if you send 100 reports a day he'll bend and do what GOONS wants. Only one ban/nation strike I felt was justified and that was against Migraine the rest are bullshit and you know it.

Length of War and our concerns
- Carthago and OWR did undeniably undermine the war effort by defecting. But unlike Frontier who left only after a short time, these alliances fought for months in this war, hell Carthago basically bankrupted themselves. They didn't deserve to be perma rolled, yet people like Keshav quite openly said in Colo B chat they weren't ready to give Carth/OWR peace since they needed to be punished for at least several months more when t$ tried to surrender. (For the record neither did Frontier deserve a 'perma rolling'. Whilst I was disappointed they left so soon I felt betrayed. Its obvious in hindsight I don't blame them one bit as they made the right choice @Alexio15)
- TCW is not a warfighting alliance, we will fight to defend allies but we aren't culturally anyway like KT, TGH, BK, NPO for which long wars are second nature to them. We are ex-Pantheon/GPA, you knew our core members don't like long wars, so make fun of us all you want for being "pixel huggers' or wanting to 'whale out' but that's what our internal culture is like.
- Asking us to censor members in public forums. To use an example NPO took issue with Kalev's troll posts so they asked me to ban TCW members from posting things which "help reinforce or enable Colo A'. Our gov will tell you I've banned public posts at times if its of benefit for the war, coalition or allies but to call us out in the Colo B server is an insult, which then Colo B gov went about saying we should change x value of our alliance to fit better into the image that other Colo B alliances have.
- Finally yes their was a economic motivation but that was last on our concerns since we viewed the above issues as far more pernicious for our alliances that our whales not being able to produce stuff. But I'll say we're certainly quite happy we can finally have some members producing stuff for our alliance on 100/100 taxes, to funnel down to our lower tier.

13 hours ago, Roquentin said:

He's saying now because it looks better. You do realize he's left wars early before right?

With Sphinx, you can read all the upper leadership logs about it. If he had moral objections they were never really clear. He was happy to see TKR in bad shape.

So yeah, that is what happened.

 

i can't remember the specific place. There's a convo where Keegoz says he can get people to agree to surrender 6 month NAP when Sphinx was talking to him and then it didn't happen and you dug on the basis of people leaving the war. That showed your attitude.

Roq you realise there' a different between wanting TKR to get a bloody nose and wanting to grind them into dust like NPO/BK want to. As far I'm concerned the 'grudge' we had over TKR and the Knightfall disaster was settled, we had a war TCW helped beat them we've called it a day. Perhaps BK should put their almost 3 year grudge against TKR to rest as well? 

The fact Colo A was willing to offer terms to TCW and admit defeat to us solo shows how dilapidated your coalition was. You used us to harpoon whales and then shot us in the back for good measure as thanks. Whilst TCW is not part of Colo A, the vast majority of them have already done more for us than some certain alliances in Colo B ever did.

13 hours ago, Smith said:

? ? ? ? ? ?

I don't share OOC stuff but I've got the peace servers all archived saved along with the Colo B server, so I'll look for more fun snippets when I get time.

13 hours ago, Roquentin said:

You do realize they said the bloc only applies post-war? Timeline goes again, TMC/NP hit BoC en masse triggering Camelot MD. Reps are refused despite being a nominal sum. No attempt at resolution was made by Sphinx at all. He just ignored everyone on our side who said NP/TMC should just pay the 350m.

Refer to the above, this is factually incorrect.

Apologises for any typos or errors, long post Its bound to happen.... If any Colo A or B person wants context behind anything I'll happily give what explanations I can, just hit me up in DM's on Discord.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Sphinx

[HARPER.txt]

1 hour ago, SleepingNinja said:

Cute of you to chime in. Any comment on why your forcing former tCW members to delete because they don't want to be at war anymore? OHHH this is funny, your the guy that did it too.?

 

naww thanks, I think im cute too ❤️ because NPO does it, it means its ok though right? little sidenote, im not in TCW ?

Edited January 14, 2020 by Unwanted

[Roquentin]

55 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

These are the reasons why TCW left: (For the record I only decided to switch sides legitimately 2 days before our ROH, I had planned to leave the war with some light terms, NAP etc and move on but we were forced to enter by the aggression Colo B demonstrated)

Since there's a lot let me brake it down into categories
 
Violating the treaties of TCW Allies
- Attacks upon neutral outsides and friendly alliances to TCW, (NPO hitting TMC the first time despite me mentioning they were in talks with us to sign a Prot agreement as they were leaving SOUP.) Keshav mentioned how he'd happily roll TMC again if he had the chance as they regarded them as "War dodgers" when Kev and Charlie can tell you they had planned to make their own alliance pre-Surf Up but they stayed for several months to help SOUP.
- Attacks upon allied alliances over "mass beiging", Electric Space nobody can disagree was struggling but the attack by GotG was a breach of the MDP we held, we tried to offer them help, they needed guidance not unwarranted attacks which helped kill them off, several of the Electric Space people then went on to found Demacia with other old-guard BK'ers. An alliance which Curu/Leo both called a collection of washed up BK rejects. We signed with Demacia to help people like Yoso, Supercheese etc, they were still friends/allies who were having a bad time and we wanted to help them.
- When the Gorge incident happened I said I was fine with him being rolled, but not Demacia as they had nothing to do with it, but BK rolled them anyway that was the 3rd time IQ attacked an ally/Prot of TCW.
- The final straw for violating treaties was the unproved attacks upon Ironfront and Weebunism. Yes you can claim North Point/ TMC were too aggressive and I told Aku I was pissed off that they allowed it to escalate. But the simple fact is IQ barely consulted me over the incident, you just from 0-100 and attacked for a 4th time allies of TCW. 

Actions detrimental to the game and insults to friends and allies
- If you knew our history and how so many people have tried to force harsh terms on us, or just rolled us out of the blue for no reason, you'll know TCW/GPA has never supported harsh terms. We brought this issue up many times that several terms are ridiculous and should be removed as they are prolonging a war already reaching 7+ months long, yet our concerns were rejected. 
- We were hopeful we could stay with Colo B, but as the talks unfolded it was obvious to us that Colo B was purposely producing an environment in which they knew nothing would be accepted and so the war would continue to be dragged out. Whilst I do think Colo A was unreasonable in not reaching out for peace sooner, Colo B's actions are far worse in that by dragging this war out they are causing communities on both sides of the game to crumble. 
- Afrika Korps is one such example, they were clearly unhappy and wanted out but due to the shadow of IQ looming over them if they peaced out we all know what would've happened to them. Afrika Korps was friends with many in TCW, the alliance was founded by a core of ex-Pantheon people, over half the government of AK are people who when I was de-facto leader of Pantheon I personally trained. The only reason AK disbanded was because this war lasted an obscenely long amount of time. It was salt in the wound to see Colo B people 'celebrating' the demise of an alliance which had so many friends of TCW in, several of them have since quit the game.
- On many occasions I pinged everyone on the Colo B server and asked for GOONS to stop undermining, insulting or otherwise threatening our protectorates and allies. From alliances such as The Manhattan Cartel, Weebunism, Afrika Korps and others several members were banned and others issues nation strikes for frivolous rubbish only because the admin is a jellyfish who if you send 100 reports a day he'll bend and do what GOONS wants. Only one ban/nation strike I felt was justified and that was against Migraine the rest are bullshit and you know it.

Length of War and our concerns
- Carthago and OWR did undeniably undermine the war effort by defecting. But unlike Frontier who left only after a short time, these alliances fought for months in this war, hell Carthago basically bankrupted themselves. They didn't deserve to be perma rolled, yet people like Keshav quite openly said in Colo B chat they weren't ready to give Carth/OWR peace since they needed to be punished for at least several months more when t$ tried to surrender. 
- TCW is not a warfighting alliance, we will fight to defend allies but we aren't culturally anyway like KT, TGH, BK, NPO for which long wars are second nature to them. We are ex-Pantheon/GPA, you knew our core members don't like long wars, so make fun of us all you want for being "pixel huggers' or wanting to 'whale out' but that's what our internal culture is like.
- Asking us to censor members in public forums. To use an example NPO took issue with Kalev's troll posts so they asked me to ban TCW members from posting things which "help reinforce or enable Colo A'. Our gov will tell you I've banned public posts at times if its of benefit for the war, coalition or allies but to call us out in the Colo B server is an insult, which then Colo B gov went about saying we should change x value of our alliance to fit better into the image that other Colo B alliances have.
- Finally yes their was a economic motivation but that was last on our concerns since we viewed the above issues as far more pernicious for our alliances that our whales not being able to produce stuff. But I'll say we're certainly quite happy we can finally have some members producing stuff for our alliance on 100/100 taxes, to funnel down to our lower tier.

Roq you realise there' a different between wanting TKR to get a bloody nose and wanting to grind them into dust like NPO/BK want to. As far I'm concerned the 'grudge' we had over TKR and the Knightfall disaster was settled, we had a war TCW helped beat them we've called it a day. Perhaps BK should put their almost 3 year grudge against TKR to rest as well? 

The fact Colo A was willing to offer terms to TCW and admit defeat to us solo shows how dilapidated your coalition was. You used us to harpoon whales and then shot us in the back for good measure as thanks. Whilst TCW is not part of Colo A, the vast majority of them have already done more for us than some certain alliances in Colo B ever did.

I don't share OOC stuff but I've got the peace servers all archived saved along with the Colo B server, so I'll look for more fun snippets when I get time.

Refer to the above, this is factually incorrect.

Apologises for any typos or errors, long post I'm bound to happen.... If any Colo A or B person wants context behind anything I'll happily give what explanations I can, just hit my up in DM's on Discord.

Violations of Treaties

For one, you didn't inform us about TMC until after we hit and we agreed to limit to one round because of your loan and protectorate of them. Fark was planning to hit them anyway at the time as noted by Shifty previously.

ES: You didn't really raise real objections and it was resolved fairly quickly. The objection to Demacia was Gorge taking stuff from BK, which you're now bragging about when you said there was no proof. George was the leader of Demacia, so the alliance was attacked until he left. Is it invested in Orion? Just keep in mind now Demacia and Pantheon are on the same side.  Did he give their bank back?

There was enough intel about Weebunism going in and there was some militarization in IF. You never approached us about them and they approached first and declined a NAP. Tom was given the opportunity to sign a NAP..

 

 

Actions detrimental to the game and insults to friends and allies

You literally wanted reps until it would extend the length of the war. You had proposed terms yourself before. Again, the war length was acknowledged but that was because you just didn't like a long war. You wanted Rose to release Hwan's funds even though they have a policy on deserters while chatting them up.

Except you knew the goal of Coalition B going in to those talks and you only started dissenting/undermining by telling other people about it which killed any traction for the terms as they knew you weren't insisting. This removed any leverage and encouraged an atmosphere of no progress. We can't cause any communities to crumble just by doing a war not anymore than stealing a bank, hitting people when they rebuild, etc.. It's ultimately if it's a genuine community then the people will stay through thick and thin and not give up because of any war length.  At the point that it was clear further consolidation would happen on their side and you made a new bloc with a new supremacy clause and were trying to sign with more alliances, we had no reason to think you'd be 100% with us if we went with what you wanted. We tried to work out any concerns and we just got static most of the time. We're not going to peace and be on the hook when the war started over leaks just because they hate us more for your convenience. That's suicidal. This was before any leaks too.

The reports are kind of even more intrusive than asking for OWF censorship. People had some questionable content and could have removed it. No one's gotten banned on a first offense afaik.

 

Length of War

They basically didn't do anything and protested being asked to carry their weight. The propaganda value of them peacing was super harmful and it severely harmed us. Also I'm glad you acknowleged that he wasn't actually going to disband them. Also you did say that Carthago couldn't peace even if they wanted to without tS. 

I mean, I don't really care if it's that the case but it's your motivation in large part here and why you felt a need to restore its reputation. We were hoping that people would use the experience to be less averse to wars.

You weren't called out in the Coal B server in an open channel. You were asked about it in the leadership channel. We don't take kindly to people saying we're the worst and etc and pinging everyone to read it. kalev literally liked EM's post against your ally even though you yourself were saying he was flaking on loans and were previously critical of his actions.

Funny how you only tended to talk about this part in terms of the economic motivation..

That's really never how you qualified and I'm pretty sure you've used the phrase "grind into dust" yourself".  At the end of the day you still kept talking about how they just ditched you as deadweight until it became more convenient to say you like them again now and it's only at the price of selling us out. It's the only way your consolidation with Coalition A will work ultimately, though which is another reason why we aren't going be throwing in the towel ever.

Are you saying our coalition was dilapidated or theirs? We didn't use you and you were treated as an equal partner every step of the way which is you were in the highest channels and now you have the luxury of logdumping us more like Gorge. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Roquentin

[Prefonteen]

59 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Violations of Treaties

For one, you didn't inform us about TMC until after we hit and we agreed to limit to one round because of your loan and protectorate of them. Fark was planning to hit them anyway at the time as noted by Shifty previously.

ES: You didn't really raise real objections and it was resolved fairly quickly. The objection to Demacia was Gorge taking stuff from BK, which you're now bragging about when you said there was no proof. George was the leader of Demacia, so the alliance was attacked until he left. Is it invested in Orion? Just keep in mind now Demacia and Pantheon are on the same side.  Did he give their bank back?

There was enough intel about Weebunism going in and there was some militarization in IF. You never approached us about them and they approached first and declined a NAP. Tom was given the opportunity to sign a NAP..

 

 

Actions detrimental to the game and insults to friends and allies

You literally wanted reps until it would extend the length of the war. You had proposed terms yourself before. Again, the war length was acknowledged but that was because you just didn't like a long war. You wanted Rose to release Hwan's funds even though they have a policy on deserters while chatting them up.

Except you knew the goal of Coalition B going in to those talks and you only started dissenting/undermining by telling other people about it which killed any traction for the terms as they knew you weren't insisting. This removed any leverage and encouraged an atmosphere of no progress. We can't cause any communities to crumble just by doing a war not anymore than stealing a bank, hitting people when they rebuild, etc.. It's ultimately if it's a genuine community then the people will stay through thick and thin and not give up because of any war length.  At the point that it was clear further consolidation would happen on their side and you made a new bloc with a new supremacy clause and were trying to sign with more alliances, we had no reason to think you'd be 100% with us if we went with what you wanted. We tried to work out any concerns and we just got static most of the time. We're not going to peace and be on the hook when the war started over leaks just because they hate us more for your convenience. That's suicidal. This was before any leaks too.

The reports are kind of even more intrusive than asking for OWF censorship. People had some questionable content and could have removed it. No one's gotten banned on a first offense afaik.

 

Length of War

They basically didn't do anything and protested being asked to carry their weight. The propaganda value of them peacing was super harmful and it severely harmed us. Also I'm glad you acknowleged that he wasn't actually going to disband them. Also you did say that Carthago couldn't peace even if they wanted to without tS. 

I mean, I don't really care if it's that the case but it's your motivation in large part here and why you felt a need to restore its reputation. We were hoping that people would use the experience to be less averse to wars.

You weren't called out in the Coal B server in an open channel. You were asked about it in the leadership channel. We don't take kindly to people saying we're the worst and etc and pinging everyone to read it. kalev literally liked EM's post against your ally even though you yourself were saying he was flaking on loans and were previously critical of his actions.

Funny how you only tended to talk about this part in terms of the economic motivation..

That's really never how you qualified and I'm pretty sure you've used the phrase "grind into dust" yourself".  At the end of the day you still kept talking about how they just ditched you as deadweight until it became more convenient to say you like them again now and it's only at the price of selling us out. It's the only way your consolidation with Coalition A will work ultimately, though which is another reason why we aren't going be throwing in the towel ever.

Are you saying our coalition was dilapidated or theirs? We didn't use you and you were treated as an equal partner every step of the way which is you were in the highest channels and now you have the luxury of logdumping us more like Gorge. 

 

 

 

 

What the actual hell.

The lack of progress has stemmed entirely from the absolutely crap conduct of your representatives. Getting talks started in the first place was a circus of bullshit. From the onset of the actual talks, you had a select few vocal representatives blocking any meaningful compromise, refusing actual negotiation or dialogue, and threatening permawar at every corner in an environment littered with petty personal slights and insults. Despite initial terms already being incredibly harsh, new terms were added post-deliverance of the document. And while yes, you have the right to do so, it does not signal much good faith or a desire for peace.

It was only after Sphinx, Aero and DNFJ began involving themselves later on in the process that we managed to progress from article I to article III. This was not because of your (read NPO's and a few other) representatives, but despite them. Your representatives have been toxic !@#$s on all levels whom I hope I won't have the displeasure to deal with again.

 

So yeah, out of here with your gaslighting crap on yet another ex-ally who is done with your shit.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Prefonteen

[Roquentin]

1 minute ago, Prefonteen said:

What the actual hell.

The lack of progress has stemmed entirely from the absolutely crap conduct of your representatives. Getting talks started in the first place was a circus of bullshit. From the onset of the actual talks, you had a select few vocal representatives blocking any meaningful compromise, refusing actual negotiation or dialogue, and threatening permawar at every corner in an environment littered with petty personal slights and insults. Despite initial terms already being incredibly harsh, new terms were added post-deliverance of the document. And while yes, you have the right to do so, it does not signal much good faith or a desire for peace.

It was only after Sphinx, Aero and DNFJ began involving themselves later on in the process that we managed to progress from article I to article III. This was not because of your (read NPO's and a few other) representatives, but despite them. Your representatives have been toxic !@#$s on all levels whom I hope I won't have the displeasure to deal with again.

 

So yeah, out of here with your gaslighting crap on yet another ex-ally who is done with your shit.

Again, why are we going to be super easy when you've been clearly antagonistic and peace is 100% in your favor? Had you been conciliatory at all, it would have been different. This is the thing again, you know an easy peace is lop-sided in your favor. The fact you know that someone is undermining it means you won't accept anything. So for instance you're citing people who support the bond and you rejected it flat out. That's not going to work. You've posted super hateful comments at us since before you even went in and you have Leopold who escalated the issues we had beforehand in gov again. Don't try to pretend you're innocent here when you've been constantly antagonizing us for the past 7 months.

Even now, you resorted to gimmicks and stuff and it won't get you peace either.  The pandora's box you, Sphinx, and Akuryo have opened is going to ensure there will be no peace.

[Prefonteen]

Just now, Roquentin said:

Again, why are we going to be super easy when you've been clearly antagonistic and peace is 100% in your favor? Had you been conciliatory at all, it would have been different. This is the thing again, you know an easy peace is lop-sided in your favor. The fact you know that someone is undermining it means you won't accept anything. So for instance you're citing people who support the bond and you rejected it flat out. That's not going to work. You've posted super hateful comments at us since before you even went in and you have Leopold who escalated the issues we had beforehand in gov again. Don't try to pretend you're innocent here when you've been constantly antagonizing us for the past 7 months.

Even now, you resorted to gimmicks and stuff and it won't get you peace either.  The pandora's box you, Sphinx, and Akuryo have opened is going to ensure there will be no peace.

Congratulations. You once again sidestepped the point and slung in a bunch of strung out baseless "No U's". I'm done here.

[kalev60]

I for one am  glad to have entered into "big politics" on freedom of speech  issue and will defend my stance on this. Lol liking a post on the internet is grounds for banning my speech, it´s virtual equivalent of sewing my mouth shut and cutting of me hands so I could not write too for I liking something in the real world. Also GPA has had really free attitude and culture from the start about freedom of speech to such a huge extent opsec and public image have had problems because of it. Also some members have gotten us rolled for it. It will never change, TCW will not silence it´s members for jokes ever, there has to be real and grand reasons for doing so, and Prime-minister can get impeached rather fast for playing fast and loose with those sections of TCW/GPA culture. 

On flaking my loans, lol, I have loans? 

Sphinx is allowed to be critical of my actions all he wants, that doesn´t mean he has the power by the charter to silence members for jokes. DNA has been a joke from the start, I´ve called all prime ministers Socialist Overlords from the start, Drunken News Agency has talked rubbish about TCW allies always. There  are even funding charter principles of DNA published years ago warning people about that and I republish them now and then  if someone flips out. The 3 smile emoticons are there to remind and hint it´s a joke and the worst possible enemy spin on things I can imagine at any given time. I´m not responsible for people not knowing that, does that mean I should be silenced? 

No ally that I know of till Col B has ever had a problem with my jokes before, even posted some rather nasty stuff about TKR in their own forums under the label DNA and those are still up there. Also no ally has ever come to me and applied any pressure to change my stuff in almost 5 years I´ve done DNA, neither have they totally ignored the source and went behind my back to !@#$ about me to my prime-minister. And all I did was to post pro GPA, coup culture, pro impeaching the Socialist Overlords, pro world peace stuff, in hopes of my jokes sparking an idea in some leaders about the perma-war being kind of boring and bad for the overall health of the game and the community. Also at the time at any point no ally made me aware of the fact that I did anything wrong, as I heard it after the fact and from Sphinx. IF you only knew with  how many articles I´ve gone to Sphinx with and asked: "Can I post those or am I going too far?" and gotten a firm rock-hard NO on.  And I´m sorry for putting my friends through having listen to people, who clearly lacked the spine to come complain to my face, instead complaining  to me friends about me, so sorry for that Sphinx.  Should I be banned and silenced for that? 

I also know NPO culture somewhat, having been in it for years in another universe, so I can understand how restrain values take a back-seat for others in that fine community, although I do not understand how members of NPO community can blindly think all other communities are similar and can just constrain their member´s speech as NPO does. I´m not even laying a moral judgement on NPO for doing that, I can understand the value and limiting risks on FA and image by doing it, I just can not understand how they thing all or even only TCW should abandon their cultural past and copy NPO and just gag order our members like they are some lifeless, no  rights or value having, not spiritual  or self-expression seeking beings but machines following their doctrine or their programming  with no questions asked  - bots  for a lack of better world. I just do not see how any alliance or community can be so narrow minded to truly think and believe everyone else is just like them and should act like em. Should I be silenced and banned for that ?

So I liked EM post, maybe I did so because I really liked the series, or maybe I was drunk  or temporary insane, or maybe just over tired and grumpy. Doesn´t really matter why I liked it, their reaction to my one click, which could have very well been a mistake on my part,  was not to seek wisdom or info by confronting the "perpetrator" (me) about it  but to demand I be gagged and punished for it, which when done correctly I would find arousing, but in this case it was insulting, they didn´t even asked me to correct it but have held on to it like some jaded girlfriend with a mistake done ten years ago to throw it in my face in every argument I get into with her. Should I be banned and silenced for that?  

IF anyone´s curiosity was peaked, and I doubt it, Drunken News Agency´s most propaganda pieces can be read on TCW discord and TKR forums. I´m really glad I have not been silenced and banned yet on those, even though been part of wrecking some TKR nations for better part of half the last year. Should I really be banned and silenced for that ?   

 

       

[Roquentin]

Just now, Prefonteen said:

Congratulations. You once again sidestepped the point and slung in a bunch of strung out baseless "No U's". I'm done here.

You acknowledged there was progress made and Keshav even did some of the wording. You tried the "NPO is bad" thing again even though the breakoff point of the negotiations is something two of those agreed on. Just keep in mind. If two parties are negotiating a settlement, there has to be something in it for both sides. If you don't like the demeanor, then you have to try to tone your own stuff down.

[Kastor]

At one point, you gotta ask, if everyone is teaming up against you and you're constantly fighting people who you were on the same side as when the war started, are you the good guys?

[LukeTP]

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

There was enough intel about Weebunism going in and there was some militarization in IF. You never approached us about them and they approached first and declined a NAP. Tom was given the opportunity to sign a NAP..

The Weebunism treaty was signed in game on 18th December 2019. The IronFront treaty was signed in game on 22nd December 2019. Everyone had seen the terms of the treaty on the OWF which was posted on 18th December 2019. BK knew that by attacking Weebunism and ironFront, that our treaty with them would be activated, thus nullifying our treaty with BK.

There are only two possible scenarios:

1) BK were too naive to think that The Commonwealth would honour the treaty with Weebunism and IronFront, in which case you guys really need to step back and think.

2) BK wanted The Commonwealth to honour the treaty with Weebunism and IronFront, thus putting tCW onto the other side of the conflict, so BK could try and pay back tCW's perceived treachery in wanting to move on from a gamekilling war.

Most of Orbis is bored of Global War 14.

It's funny by the way that you go from saying tCW doesn't like long wars in one breath, to then be saying that it's all tCW's fault that the war is being prolonged.

[Arawra]

On 1/11/2020 at 10:44 PM, REAP3R said:

 

On 1/11/2020 at 10:45 PM, Roquentin said:

He's not gov and he was trolling, but even if it was endless then you're not being warred to death because it's impossible to be warred to death.

 

17 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Even now, you resorted to gimmicks and stuff and it won't get you peace either.  The pandora's box you, Sphinx, and Akuryo have opened is going to ensure there will be no peace.

So you're trolling?

[Shiho Nishizumi]

Just now, REAP3R said:

So you're trolling?

Public consistency's never been his forte.

[Roquentin]

10 minutes ago, Kastor said:

At one point, you gotta ask, if everyone is teaming up against you and you're constantly fighting people who you were on the same side as when the war started, are you the good guys?

 I mean, you can just look at who's on the other side and it's a lot cognitive dissonance holding it together while we've always had to deal with these types of situations and extra vilification. The fact that we finally reciprocated the ill will on the same level doesn't mean we started this trajectory. Epi's posts show we're not the bad guys here. I'm mainly talking about KERTCHOGG/tS/TCW/NP. We don't really have an investment in the other people.

 

7 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

The Weebunism treaty was signed in game on 18th December 2019. The IronFront treaty was signed in game on 22nd December 2019. Everyone had seen the terms of the treaty on the OWF which was posted on 18th December 2019. BK knew that by attacking Weebunism and ironFront, that our treaty with them would be activated, thus nullifying our treaty with BK.

There are only two possible scenarios:

1) BK were too naive to think that The Commonwealth would honour the treaty with Weebunism and IronFront, in which case you guys really need to step back and think.

2) BK wanted The Commonwealth to honour the treaty with Weebunism and IronFront, thus putting tCW onto the other side of the conflict, so BK could try and pay back tCW's perceived treachery in wanting to move on from a gamekilling war.

Most of Orbis is bored of Global War 14.

It's funny by the way that you go from saying tCW doesn't like long wars in one breath, to then be saying that it's all tCW's fault that the war is being prolonged.

Or how about Commonwealth didn't say anything and the assumption by that was they'd do something anyway?

It's TCW's fault it will be prolonged even more  because they literally pulled the worst possible move for peace in attacking us and the NP stuff. They could have easily deescalated things.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Roquentin

[kalev60]

And you could have easily not escalated things in the first place by not attacking our allies. Also it is not that easy to put months of time into creating perma-war situation and then blame others for doing something you could totally foresee them doing  that could possiblyfurther your goal of perma-war.

Edited January 14, 2020 by kalev60

[LukeTP]

3 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

 I mean, you can just look at who's on the other side and it's a lot cognitive dissonance holding it together while we've always had to deal with these types of situations and extra vilification. The fact that we finally reciprocated the ill will on the same level doesn't mean we started this trajectory. Epi's posts. I'm mainly talking about KERTCHOGG/tS/ We don't really have an investment in the other people.

 

Or how about Commonwealth didn't say anything and the assumption by that was they'd do something anyway?

It's TCW's fault it will be prolonged even more  because they literally pulled the worst possible move for peace in attacking us and the NP stuff. They could have easily deescalated things.

Why does have tCW have to de-escalate anything? You could have just not escalated things in the first place? Oh no, of course, then you wouldn't get permawar.

[durmij]

25 minutes ago, kalev60 said:

I for one am  glad to have entered into "big politics" on freedom of speech  issue and will defend my stance on this.

 

       

[namukara]

4 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

 I mean, you can just look at who's on the other side and it's a lot cognitive dissonance holding it together while we've always had to deal with these types of situations and extra vilification. The fact that we finally reciprocated the ill will on the same level doesn't mean we started this trajectory. Epi's posts. I'm mainly talking about KERTCHOGG/tS/ We don't really have an investment in the other people.

 

Or how about Commonwealth said anything and the assumption by that was they'd do something anyway?

It's TCW's fault it will be prolonged even more  because they literally pulled the worst possible move for peace in attacking us and the NP stuff. They could have easily deescalated things.

Prior to your attacks on TMC there was next to no reason for Farksphere to enter the war.

The fact that you still attacked TMC, despite it being plainly evident that they had a treaty with Fark, and that Farksphere honours its treaties, is proof positive that you had a desire to bring us into the war. This being the case I cannot accept that OD attacks on allies of TCW, who they knew TCW had an obligation to defend, were not intended to bring TCW into the war.

 

I am not fighting you because I hate you. There are NPO members I regularly chat to, I know people in your alliance from other places it exists. I am fighting you because whatever respect I have for the NPO, I have far more love for a game I have invested time and money into playing. The fact that the NPO has, for the duration of its history across multiple games, failed to realise that these sorts of activities only persist while there is an effective opposition to one group is not the fault of those fighting it. The fact that we realise that our communities are more important than our pixels is also not our fault, however it is the reason I will not stop fighting until OD's attempts to crush any meaningful alliances which could present any threat to them ends.

 

Peace is in your interest. If you go for it, the game survives and so do you. If you don't go for it, the game dies or you do. I see, however that you've made your decision. Enjoy the battlefield, I'm still smiling.

 

Rant ends