PnW Academy Awards

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

4 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I mean I've been using this word quite a bit recently, but I do love how entitled folks have to believe they are, that they keep devising absolutely exclusionary methods for awards, when the most open/free for all exercise was just completed and didn't turn out the way they wanted. 

I love how you're so entitled you flip your shit and decry a plot to destroy you everytime a change to the status quo is suggested. How many textwalls have you out here whining that anyone would dare want to do something different?

Jesus Christ get over yourself. Kev is on the nose with this, it's a community event people chose to organize because they could. Don't wanna participate, then don't. Save you whiny ass victim whining for another day when not liking NPO is the same as wanting to destroy them.

There's literally nothing wrong with any of this, it's not even official. Good God.

[Nobody Expects]

11 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

There's literally nothing wrong with any of this, it's not even official. Good God.

Plenty wrong with it, its exclusionary, the awards are done and dusted pretty much, and noone cares about your pointless vanity exercise to get results you will probably prefer. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Expects said:

Plenty wrong with it, its exclusionary, the awards are done and dusted pretty much, and noone cares about your pointless vanity exercise to get results you will probably prefer. 

It's not official, the results will not be canonized in anything but a forum post, and you're throwing a petulant tantrum over nothing. 

Again, get over yourself. You're putting even more stock into these pixel awards then the people you're complaining at, and it's a really pathetic look. 

[Guest Karl VII]

In my humble opinion, every award ceremony that doesn't give me some kind of award is wrong and bad and unfair and terrible and should be cancelled, never mind trophies are stupid anyways and generally awards are stupid and i never really cared from the start of course what did you think that I care no I don't and anyways i get a lot of trophies why would i care about this one i just got the best award yesterday for being so awesome and everyone stood up clapped when i got it because I'm so awesome and cool and everybody else is just jealous ?

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Karl VII

[Buorhann]

Wow, so many sad people here making too much of a ruckus.  You folks really need to step away from the keyboard and go outside. 

[Kevanovia]

People were crying about toxicity in the community early in the war.
 

The source of cancer in the community is now extremely easy to locate. The level of cancer cannot be understated at the idea of being so opposed to community/non-political events where some folks are trying to bring some kind of activity and additional fun to the group of nerds that play this game.

Why the shit does every interaction have to be politicized? Let us rid ourselves of this knee-jerk toxicity and just get along on a community based level. We can then go back to scheming/backstabbing/insult throwing where it belongs - in the IC part of the game.

 

There are a lot of people that get along on both sides of the aisle. Why can’t additional fun be had where we can take a step back and enjoy something?

Edited December 31, 2019 by Kevanovia

[hope]

this is literally an unofficial community event, how hard is it to participate. nobody has OOC beef with you and everyone wants you to show up so im not really sure why you're dying on this hill

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by hope

[Leftbehind]

This ladies and gentlemen is why we can't have anything nice. 

[HARPER.txt]

Petition to halt the Global just to perma roll/dogpile on Keshav pls & ty

Edited December 31, 2019 by Unwanted

[Guest Epi]

1

Edited February 18, 2021 by Epi

[Dryad]

I'm not against this but I do have a complaint. I don't wanna be too harsh because I do realize this hasnt been in the works very long, but the qualification system is completely stupid.

Forgive me for calling out this specific alliance, but something is off when Empyrea

qualifies to have a rep but then some other alliances (Mythic :>) dont (yes, I did check the list of qualified alliances on the discord). I get the point of why the past is taken into consideration: a lot of alliances that are currently not top 50 would be under other circumstances and that's valid, but looking at the past is a bad approach. What you can do is calculate what the score of each alliance would be with max mil and high infra etc and calculate a would-be-top50 based on the present. You can also look at it in a more sophisticated way and decide for each alliance if they will recover and that's fine... BUT the past is the past, and the present is the present and that's something people need to honestly get over with.

What I'm personally for is to just screw the requirement and let every alliance have a voice. What are you expecting it to cause if you let micros represent? OFA demanding alliance of the year and getting it? That's not realistic. Any player of the game, relevant or not is a player of the game and should be represented and I don't see the reason why RnR with 16 members should be represented but the Spartan Brotherhood with 26 shouldn't. You can make an argument that a representative should represent a certain number of players but then this is not accurately represented by score. I could also understand it if you wanna exclude players inactive for a month or whatever. Imo that's not necessary but in any case make it reasonable and fair please.

Currently I imagine it to have went like this:

"For the qualification i was thinking you qualify if you are top 50 or used to be"

"Sure, sounds good"

"alright, so anyone else doesn't qualify"

It's not very nice when the time it took to disqualify some alliances took 20 seconds, please be more considerate and actually put up some reasons why an alliance should be excluded while others are not.

Once again I do realize this hasn't been in the works for too long.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Dryad

[Shadowthrone]

10 hours ago, Akuryo said:

I love how you're so entitled you flip your shit and decry a plot to destroy you everytime a change to the status quo is suggested. How many textwalls have you out here whining that anyone would dare want to do something different?

Jesus Christ get over yourself. Kev is on the nose with this, it's a community event people chose to organize because they could. Don't wanna participate, then don't. Save you whiny ass victim whining for another day when not liking NPO is the same as wanting to destroy them.

There's literally nothing wrong with any of this, it's not even official. Good God.

Yes because arguing against the exclusion of the community at large is entitlement. 

I have no idea where this has anything to do with the NPO being a victim, but its nice of you to see it that way. This whole "elite" alliance leaders deciding things for everyone else is the fundamental problem with this and is inevitably a circle jerk for folks to try and undo results that they have no control over. In fact no one has control over an open nomination/voting process which will and should always be the process if its representing the PnW community at large. A secret cabal of players should not decide on the legitimacy of stuff and disenfranchise everyone else. 

If that's a toxic position I really can't help it. 

6 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

The source of cancer in the community is now extremely easy to locate. The level of cancer cannot be understated at the idea of being so opposed to community/non-political events where some folks are trying to bring some kind of activity and additional fun to the group of nerds that play this game.

Yes because an OOC community event based on IC political events is somehow solely OOC. That logic doesn't fly mate, but its nice to question the logic of folks and being called cancerous for it. Here have a gold star. 

Again I do enjoy how some of you have taken upon yourselves to define your community as the gold standard for selection of things when there are those who are against an exclusivity criteria when it comes to these events. 

6 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

Why the shit does every interaction have to be politicized? Let us rid ourselves of this knee-jerk toxicity and just get along on a community based level. We can then go back to scheming/backstabbing/insult throwing where it belongs - in the IC part of the game.

It's a political simulator. It's an event that's dealing with IC politics. It kind of by nature political. Especially if its an attempt at retconning recent results, it most definitely is political. But trying to use this whole "this is only OOC" as a cudgel is absurd. 

6 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

There are a lot of people that get along on both sides of the aisle. Why can’t additional fun be had where we can take a step back and enjoy something?

Feel free to host a Coalition A awards ceremony in your own time and don't claim it to be representative of Orbis at large. 

6 hours ago, hope said:

this is literally an unofficial community event, how hard is it to participate. nobody has OOC beef with you and everyone wants you to show up so im not really sure why you're dying on this hill

I have no idea how disagreeing with this is suddenly OOC beef. It's just a terrible idea, and legitimising exclusion principles for community awards is by nature a terrible step to undertake. 

[Prefonteen]

You're not excluded. You're literally invited from what I understand?

[Shiho Nishizumi]

4 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

You're not excluded. You're literally invited from what I understand?

Can't let facts get in the way of the narrative.

[Adrienne]

3 hours ago, Dryad said:

~stuff~

Hey, Dryad. The top 50 is simply a starting point. There are alliances outside the top 50 that are being discussed/added and Mythic is one of those. (Also, even if it weren't, it doesn't mean you can't be nominated/win awards).

[Shadowthrone]

55 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

You're not excluded. You're literally invited from what I understand?

The point isn’t whether we’re invited or not. It’s literally the premise of closed nominations and some weight age system to undo an open nomination/polling system. That’s literally exclusionary when it’s a cabal of leaders who are somehow better positioned to decide IC awards. 
 

But nice to see that point fly over everyone’s head and think this is about the NPO or something.

[Leonard J Crabs]

already drama about who qualifies and who isn't.

Maybe if it was openly democratic there wouldn't be this problem?

[Changeup]

Can you guys ever be happy? You threw a tantrum in the official awards thread and ranted and raved about the need for an alternative despite you winning by a landslide thanks to numbers. Now, when there is an actual alternative being run, it's another tantrum about them being undemocratic and biased. I guarantee if it was someone in Coalition B running the awards, they would be billed as the greatest thing since the invention of democracy. Cut it out. There's no reason for you to be acting like this.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Changeup

[Kevanovia]

4 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Again I do enjoy how some of you have taken upon yourselves to define your community as the gold standard for selection of things when there are those who are against an exclusivity criteria when it comes to these events. 

My ‘community’ in this game is the entirety of PnW. Curious to see why you believe that we feel like we are the ‘gold standard’ of the community on PnW. Is it because we are willing to have an event where all of Orbis can participate? If that’s the case, then join in on the ‘gold standard’ and participate.
 

These awards don’t make the other awards illegitimate. Much like the Golden Globe awards don’t make the Oscars illegitimate or vice-versa.

[Raphael]

For what it's worth, I strongly considered a delegate system for a more educated voting base for the official awards as well. The obvious benefit being that people who are more involved in the community, have the larger alliances, and are generally more knowledgeable about both the events and mechanics could produce a more informed award decision.

However, it's also important to note that I chose to create a democratic platform for all members of the community to vote in. The awards are a community event, not a monopolized endeavour. Even the simplest Roqbot, Guinea Pig, and GONOS member are part of the community and do deserve the opportunity to participate in the rare event that we all do try to come together and collaborate on one thing.

 

 

It's also worth noting the same people who were super toxic about my awards being bad are now here being toxic about this attempt being bad. I would suggest to anyone who will listen: utilize the ignore poster feature of these forums and stop feeding the trolls.

[Prefonteen]

38 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

The point isn’t whether we’re invited or not. It’s literally the premise of closed nominations and some weight age system to undo an open nomination/polling system. That’s literally exclusionary when it’s a cabal of leaders who are somehow better positioned to decide IC awards. 
 

But nice to see that point fly over everyone’s head and think this is about the NPO or something.

I mean, both options are being done. Let them have their damn fun. If you don't agree with it, just let it be. You're not forced to participate. You are invited. It's not official.

 

 I really don't see why you are kicking up a shitstorm and being toxic.

[Edward I]

Since I was quoted and since quite a few people still don't seem to understand why pretty much every system for these awards is unsatisfactory, I'll spell it out again:

The awards are politicized because they are political. They are political because they have in-game representation in the form of player/alliance badges and de facto administrative sanction in the form of both those badges and this subforum. The problem this presents is exacerbated by the extremely poor moderation/administration practice of allowing players to conduct the awards haphazardly and somewhat opaquely each year.

So long as the above remains the status quo, the least unfair, least unobjective way to conduct the awards will be a one man, one vote system for both nominations and voting. Any other mechanism would constitute obvious partiality by the moderation/administration team towards whichever players are given a voice that is proportionally greater than what they would have under a direct democratic system.

The best way to "fix" the awards isn't to continue the annual exercise of trying to limit popular input into the awards. This implicitly paints large swaths of the playerbase as less-than, or as not-fully-fledged members of the community who are undeserving of the chance at full, equal participation in the game and its events.

The way to fix the awards is to get rid of them. Remove the in-game badges, lock this subforum and, if anyone wants to conduct unofficial annual awards, force them to use Orbis Central like everyone else who creates a community event without direct accountability to the moderation/administration team. That is, after all, what these have always been. Let's stop pretending.

 

The reason why NPO in particular and Coalition B more generally have panned this idea is because it is, like Kastor's original concept for this year's awards, transparently exclusionary and self-evidently bad. It's not because we don't have "open minds," it's not because we were or weren't invited, and it's not because we're voicing our criticisms here rather than on a private Discord server.

 

If this is truly an attempt to produce something better than this year's polls, I'll offer a few suggestions:

1) This should have been posted in Orbis Central because it has no impact on the game itself (whoever wins won't get a badge), and so is unrelated to the official, administration-sanctioned awards. The OP should request that the moderation team move it to reflect this fact and to reflect the OP's acknowledgment of this fact.

2) Drop the pretense that popular democracy is somehow unfair or unobjective, or at least that it is more those things than other systems. It isn't a problem that large alliances and groups have loud voices. Conversely, no alliance is inherently deserving of a voice equal to that of any other alliance. In other words, being an alliance doesn't make you special, and neither does leading one.

3) Focus on discussion rather than on picking winners. After getting rid of the abdication of administrative responsibility that these awards are, the thing I'd most like to see is a format that prioritizes talking over winning. The main event(s) should be about reminiscing and about recognizing notable accomplishments and failures. If the plebs entitled old boys clubs insist on having some kind voting in addition to this, fine, but that will make it that much harder to de-politicize these. As long as the awards produce something concrete to utilize in recruitment material, there will still be a strong incentive to vote with your group.

[Prefontaine]

The reason the recent awards were locked early and in some cases removed is simply because I threatened Roberts with the destruction of Yarr if he continued to perpetuate the idiocy that is the yearly awards. It wasn't about anyone not liking the results, it was about my never ending crusade to kill the yearly awards. 

[ComradeMilton]

50 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

The reason the recent awards were locked early and in some cases removed is simply because I threatened Roberts with the destruction of Yarr if he continued to perpetuate the idiocy that is the yearly awards. It wasn't about anyone not liking the results, it was about my never ending crusade to kill the yearly awards. 

Oh.  That's not really going to be a thing. We'll go back to having not terrible awards, though.

[ComradeMilton]

56 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

The reason the recent awards were locked early and in some cases removed is simply because I threatened Roberts with the destruction of Yarr if he continued to perpetuate the idiocy that is the yearly awards. It wasn't about anyone not liking the results, it was about my never ending crusade to kill the yearly awards. 

That'll probably.  All that's needed is someone in a protective alliance to decide to run awards.