PnW Academy Awards

[Redarmy]

Hey! We're having an awards ceremony. We have Alliance Category, Player Categories, Silly Categories, and Community Categories. Come check it. In case you're wondering who we are, our staff contains Adrienne from TKR, Sval of OWR, deadmeat of GOONS, myself of Heaven's Gate, and Redarmy of CoS. Cheers, and we hope to see you here soon! https://discord.gg/hxCRtpX

[hope]

To add onto Red's post:

An issue many of us took with the Yearly Awards was that it wasn't really a "One Alliance One Vote" system, instead it was a "Whoever can get the most votes wins" system. Which is fine, the People's Choice Awards is a great system as well. Our methodology for these Awards are:

Alliance Qualification

Qualifying Alliances for the Academy will be done on two parts. Due to the current global war, many alliances's scores are  deflated and not representative of their overall influence within the game. Thus, alliances can qualify to be a part of the academy if they were ranked in the top 50 May 12th, 2019 (taken from The Alliance Leaderboard thread run by Shadow) or be a part of the top 50 December 30th, 2019
- Alliances that were active on May 12th and have now disbanded do not qualify
- Alliances that were active May 12th and have splintered and/or merged do not qualify
- Alliances considered extensions of other qualifying alliances do not qualify
- Alliances considered subsidiaries or training alliances of other qualifying alliances do not qualify

Rules

The nomination stage will take place in which all alliances can place a single vote nominating an alliance of their choice in categories selected by the administration of this server:
- Awards will be taken from the "Yearly Awards" subforum and may be added, modified, or taken off by administration at their discretion before nominations begin
- Any categories not included that the academy would wish to add can be voted on by the academy. If the category is voted on with 75% or more approval, the category will be added to the list of awards available.
- Any negative awards ("Worst Alliance, Worst Fighters") will not be allowed except for "Worst Alliance Leader"
 

After all alliances have submitted their nominees, the first stage of voting will take place. Alliances will be allowed to submit 3 votes (1 vote for three separate nominees per category) and the five highest voted nominees will be taken to the final award ceremony
Once the final five nominees in each category have been decided, a form will be made by a member of the server administration with the nominees in each category. Alliances will have 1 vote per category. All results will be submitted to a public sheet for overall transparency
- Sharing of the form in order to get outside votes is banned
- Abuse of form (if you find a loophole or error with the form and dont report it) is banned
There will be a vote held on the OWF to gauge the opinion of the public. The winner of the public vote for each category will receive 15 votes, second-place will receive 10 votes, and third place will receive 5 votes

[Astryl]

"I didn't like the results so we're going to change how the awards work instead of trying to get our shitty alliances to be active in the community."

Edited December 30, 2019 by Jazz R Oppenheimer

[Leonard J Crabs]

I have a feeling the only ones participating in these awards will be Coalition A

[Shadowthrone]

No thanks.  Our awards are done for 2019. Try again in 2020. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Shadowthrone

[The Mad Titan]

Lol now this is pretty pathetic. Well done. 

[Redarmy]

*Shurgs* I was asked by Hope to participate. 

[Shadowthrone]

5 minutes ago, Redarmy said:

*Shurgs* I was asked by Hope to participate. 

I mean I've been using this word quite a bit recently, but I do love how entitled folks have to believe they are, that they keep devising absolutely exclusionary methods for awards, when the most open/free for all exercise was just completed and didn't turn out the way they wanted. 

[hope]

edit: not deserving of my time nor my energy

Edited December 30, 2019 by hope

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, hope said:

Why do you assume everyone is trying to subvert you? I AM YOUR ALLY and Redarmy is a great guy and yall all choose to shit on him? I’m friends with GOONS and I wanted to try a different way of doing things where it’s based on 1 alliance 1 vote. I don’t give a shit if you won, great work! You deserve it. I’m really ashamed to have even thought well of you guys when you all are purporting this toxicity. frick, wow. Great work, shit on your ally even more

Yes because pointing out how devising exclusionary community methods to awards is pushing toxicity. I have massive amounts of respect for you, but trying to create a new set of awards because folks feel entitled to win and didn't in the ones just completed is still a silly idea. 

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Jazz R Oppenheimer said:

"I didn't like the results so we're going to change how the awards work instead of trying to get our shitty alliances to be active in the community."

This was literally in part done because of your alliance, among others from all over Orbis, complaining about this year's awards. @Jazz R Oppenheimer, @Shadowthrone, @Leo the Great, this isn't some elaborate attempt to win, this was suggested by hope, who then reached out to others, as a way to making the process better and GOONS is a part of the admin team. If others of you want to be involved and offer suggestions, come join the server, hear out hope's plan, and offer suggestions if you want to be a part of the process. No one's interested in having this be a one-sided affair so please, keep an open mind, and get involved.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Princess Adrienne

[Leonard J Crabs]

deadmeat joined the admin team because he was under the impression it was some form of razzies, which we would love to be apart of

Edited December 30, 2019 by Leonard J Crabs

[Adrienne]

9 minutes ago, Leonard J Crabs said:

deadmeat joined the admin team because he was under the impression it was some form of razzies, which we would love to be apart of

What are razzies?

[Shadowthrone]

12 minutes ago, Princess Adrienne said:

This was literally in part done because of your alliance, among others from all over Orbis, complaining about this year's awards. @Jazz R Oppenheimer, @Shadowthrone, @Leo the Great, this isn't some elaborate attempt to win, this was suggested by hope, who then reached out to others, as a way to making the process better and GOONS is a part of the admin team. If others of you want to be involved and offer suggestions, come join the server, hear out hope's plan, and offer suggestions if you want to be a part of the process. No one's interested in having this be a one-sided affair so please, keep an open mind, and get involved.

The vast majority of those complaints are from Coalition A, for not being able to win stuff. It looks like a retcon attempt because a free for all voting system doesn't suit your needs, so tailor-make one that has least openness and built to exclude/disenfranchise folks accordingly. I do enjoy the gerrymandering attempts though. 

This most definitely seems to be a one-sided affair, but again, try again next year! 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Shadowthrone

[Adrienne]

6 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

The vast majority of those complaints are from Coalition A, for not being able to win stuff. It looks like a retcon attempt because a free for all voting system doesn't suit your needs, so tailor-make one that has least openness and built to exclude/disenfranchise folks accordingly. I do enjoy the gerrymandering attempts though. 

This most definitely seems to be a one-sided affair, but again, try again next year! 

Keshav, I can assure you this isn't some elaborate ruse to win these awards and you would see that if you joined the server and got involved. We're not interested in having this be a Coalition A affair and if you guys join in and be involved, it won't be. We were asked just today to join in by hope - this is his baby, not ours, so it isn't some retcon attempt to win by Coalition A. I know he wants you guys involved as well, as do the rest of us, so give it a shot and keep an open mind. We'd like for this to be a balanced awards system for all of Orbis, not geared towards Coalition A or Coalition B or the neutral alliances. It also doesn't completely eliminate the popular vote either, from my understanding. It's supposed to be a balance between the two.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Princess Adrienne

[Shadowthrone]

19 minutes ago, Princess Adrienne said:

Keshav, I can assure you this isn't some elaborate ruse to win these awards and you would see that if you joined the server and got involved. We're not interested in having this be a Coalition A affair and if you guys join in and be involved, it won't be. We were asked just today to join in by hope - this is his baby, not ours, so it isn't some retcon attempt to win by Coalition A. I know he wants you guys involved as well, as do the rest of us, so give it a shot and keep an open mind. We'd like for this to be a balanced awards system for all of Orbis, not geared towards Coalition A or Coalition B or the neutral alliances. It also doesn't completely eliminate the popular vote either, from my understanding. It's supposed to be a balance between the two.

I'd buy it, except for the fact it comes right after the awards for 2019 is over and folks seem unhappy with the results. Secondly, any system that's inherently exclusionary/ deciding for the rest of the community is simply attempts at taking a community affair into backroom politics. The simplest and most open of systems will always be better in these cases. It's the fundamental premise + timing that I disagree with. 

Again I do enjoy the magically new platform coming two days after folks lose stuff. I really do enjoy these intellectual exercises of trying to find the "right balance" for selection of awards, but leaving it to a high-level panel of politically involved leaders is open to far more bias/disenfranchising folks, than any other system with regards to these yearly community awards. 

[Adrienne]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

I'd buy it, except for the fact it comes right after the awards for 2019 is over and folks seem unhappy with the results. Secondly, any system that's inherently exclusionary/ deciding for the rest of the community is simply attempts at taking a community affair into backroom politics. The simplest and most open of systems will always be better in these cases. It's the fundamental premise + timing that I disagree with. 

Again I do enjoy the magically new platform coming two days after folks lose stuff. I really do enjoy these intellectual exercises of trying to find the "right balance" for selection of awards, but leaving it to a high-level panel of politically involved leaders is open to far more bias/disenfranchising folks, than any other system with regards to these yearly community awards. 

I understand the skepticism but people all over Orbis were upset with the awards and most of the complaining took place before the awards ended. People thought the awards didn't accurately reflect the year, that all the options available were bad, that there wasn't enough participation during the nominations, and that the awards weren't advertised well enough. None of that has to do with the outcome of the awards or this war/tensions between our coalitions and neither does this second attempt at the awards. Things are still be developed as well so there's room for change and movement. So please, have someone from NPO/your side join the server, get involved and give opinions, and help set a new process that we hope will address the concerns people have with how these awards have typically been done.

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, Princess Adrienne said:

I understand the skepticism but people all over Orbis were upset with the awards and most of the complaining took place before the awards ended. People thought the awards didn't accurately reflect the year, that all the options available were bad, that there wasn't enough participation during the nominations, and that the awards weren't advertised well enough. None of that has to do with the outcome of the awards or this war/tensions between our coalitions and neither does this second attempt at the awards. Things are still be developed as well so there's room for change and movement. So please, have someone from NPO/your side join the server, get involved and give opinions, and help set a new process that we hope will address the concerns people have with how these awards have typically been done.

Unless one is fine with the most open, least exclusionary system of selection of awards, which I am. There is not much to discuss in terms of a "better" system, because the best system exists in that it isn't discriminatory in nature to any player. It is one player, one vote, and open for all. What exactly needs to be changed with that? 

Again those who complained seemed to come mainly from Coalition A. Feel free to organise yourselves better to vote, rather than trying to decide what's best for everyone else through secret, exclusionary high level cabals that penalises everyone else. 

[Vein]

to be qualified you'd have to be in the top 50? no thanks, the awards has already been done with. You can come with another suggestion for next year.

[Adrienne]

16 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Unless one is fine with the most open, least exclusionary system of selection of awards, which I am. There is not much to discuss in terms of a "better" system, because the best system exists in that it isn't discriminatory in nature to any player. It is one player, one vote, and open for all. What exactly needs to be changed with that? 

Again those who complained seemed to come mainly from Coalition A. Feel free to organise yourselves better to vote, rather than trying to decide what's best for everyone else through secret, exclusionary high level cabals that penalises everyone else. 

The loudest opponents to how this year's awards were conducted came from your side so please stop making this about in-game politics when it's not. I'd invite you to join the server and hear hope/the organizers out. Get involved in the process and help shape it into something that can be better enjoyed by the entire community and is a better representation of this game and the year. No one's trying to penalize anyone and, again, there will still be a popular vote aspect to the awards based on hope's vision. If, after you guys hear it out, you have suggestions for improvement, say them. Be a part of the decision-making process. I'm starting to sound like a broken record so I'm done arguing this out with you here. Just, please keep an open mind and send someone from NPO to discuss ideas with us. We want your side to be included, in both the discussion over how to organize the awards and the voting.

8 minutes ago, Vein said:

to be qualified you'd have to be in the top 50? no thanks, the awards has already been done with. You can come with another suggestion for next year.

Top 50 is the base only for alliance leader representatives, btw. It does not mean that someone not in the Top 50 can't be nominated for an award, just for clarification. Also, it's a starting point, not the end-all-be-all for representatives - there is a tentative system that allows for other alliances outside the top 50 to be added to the alliance leader representative team and have a vote and I think your alliance would likely be one of the most likely to be included.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Princess Adrienne

[Eva-Beatrice]

As a member of Coalition B, I can say that the current awards are nothing more than a circlejerk between the major alliances on our side. Every year, it's the same. "@everyone, be sure to vote for X members/alliances so we can win!" It's made the yearly awards a joke, and I'm sure others agree with me when I say I don't care about them. It seems like alliances such as NPO and GOONS are wholeheartedly defending the current system because it's seemingly the only thing they're good at organizing and coming together for, basically guaranteeing their side the win every year. Their members will blindly vote for whomever their leadership tells them to without thinking about who actually deserves it.

You can try to deny this is the case, but you're not fooling anybody. I've seen it myself year after year. The current system is a joke and needs to be improved upon if there is to ever be any credibility to these awards. I guarantee you if the situation was reversed, and Coalition A members were dominating the awards, it would be Coalition B alliances trying to devise a new system. You have the other side trying to work with you to create a fair voting system, but are shutting them down because things went your way this year. It's pretty sad. @hope and everyone else, this is a great suggestion and I agree with it 100%. I appreciate the effort even if no one else on my side does.

[Leonard J Crabs]

You literally can't get more fair than one person, one vote.

[dragonshardz]

1 hour ago, Princess Adrienne said:

What are razzies?

From Wikipedia:

Quote

The Golden Raspberry Awards (also known in short terms as Razzies and Razzie Awards) is a parody award show honoring the worst of cinematic under-achievements

If the Yearly Awards are P&W's equivalent of the Academy Awards, then this proposed one should be the P&W equivalent of the Razzies.

Edited December 30, 2019 by dragonshardz

[Adrienne]

8 minutes ago, Leonard J Crabs said:

You literally can't get more fair than one person, one vote.

I don't agree with you for the entirety of the awards. The OOC aspects? Absolutely. The IC aspects? Not so much. Most non-gov membership is not as invested in the politics of the game and I know your side would agree with that specific statement at least, because I've heard them say it many times. That doesn't mean that the people who won some of the IC awards from the ones Roberts did don't deserve them. There are a great many that do and I think those that do will have that reflected in this proposed new system as well. It would be interesting to see how these stack up with the previous ones, if nothing else. Regardless of whether or not you agree with me though, this system isn't just about the voting part, it's also about trying to invite a better system of nominations all around. Like I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest complaints was that the choices available were terrible and that they didn't reflect the full year. GOONS was one of the most outspoken about that and that's one of the things we'd like to see improve as well.

The tl;dr on all this is that we have concerns about how the awards are run and I know you do too. So please, work with us on making them better. The process isn't set in stone, so join, give your opinions and help us finalize a process, and let's try for a better awards ceremony altogether.

[Leonard J Crabs]

4 minutes ago, Princess Adrienne said:

I don't agree with you for the entirety of the awards. The OOC aspects? Absolutely. The IC aspects? Not so much. Most non-gov membership is not as invested in the politics of the game and I know your side would agree with that specific statement at least, because I've heard them say it many times. That doesn't mean that the people who won some of the IC awards from the ones Roberts did don't deserve them. There are a great many that do and I think those that do will have that reflected in this proposed new system as well. It would be interesting to see how these stack up with the previous ones, if nothing else. Regardless of whether or not you agree with me though, this system isn't just about the voting part, it's also about trying to invite a better system of nominations all around. Like I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest complaints was that the choices available were terrible and that they didn't reflect the full year. GOONS was one of the most outspoken about that and that's one of the things we'd like to see improve as well.

I don't know how to change anything about GOONS perspective since we joined in September. How am I supposed to vote for and nom events that happened before I was in the game?

The nominations were one person one vote, and just like every democratic system in the entire world, it's dependent on organization and driving out the vote.

I really don't see how one person one vote to the nominations is in any way unfair. If you're saying you don't think the minority of players was represented accurately, well that's how minorities work.

I don't support any system in which the people do not vote for the nominations, awards, and who is able to participate.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Leonard J Crabs