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Seeking Clarification Regarding Multiple Warnings for the Same Post


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Yes. Considering the response to Noctis's spam posting in 5 different threads in no discussion areas was to hide the posts until a thread was made highlighting this coverup, and only issued one warning point to the repeat offender, it's clear you and your fellow moderators are not moderating by the standards and guidelines laid out in this thread. The lack of consistency in moderation practices is deeply concerning to myself and others and a strongly worded letter should be written and addressed to the head of administration.

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On 12/25/2019 at 8:29 PM, dragonshardz said:

Just answering some points in line:

  • @nippythefish says they were warned multiple times for the same post, to the point where they were banned (and thus cannot reply here) The sequence of events is:
    • Received a 1-point warning from Chief Wiggum, which put them into a forum mute
    • Received a 2-point warning from Jax for the same post while still muted
    • Received another 1-point warning from Olive Penderghast, while still muted. This warning then caused their account to be banned.
  • @The Meat reported a similar sequence of events to me via Discord - in both of these cases, I believe they have contacted Alex and attempted to beg clemency.

They weren't warned for the same post. We would never issue multiple warning points for the same post (except in extreme cases, i.e. a spam bot or someone posting something like pornography.) They made multiple rule-breaking posts, and received different warnings for different posts. Because they ended up being banned, they wouldn't have had a chance to see all of the posts they were warned for and must have erroneously presumed that they received multiple warning points for the same post.

On 12/25/2019 at 9:32 PM, dragonshardz said:

"2 points warn plus a verbal applies a second 2 point suspension" is exactly the issue I described.

The system does by default apply the suspension level when you issue a 0-point warning. We can override that, though.

22 hours ago, Blutarch Mann said:

Yes. Considering the response to Noctis's spam posting in 5 different threads in no discussion areas was to hide the posts until a thread was made highlighting this coverup, and only issued one warning point to the repeat offender, it's clear you and your fellow moderators are not moderating by the standards and guidelines laid out in this thread. The lack of consistency in moderation practices is deeply concerning to myself and others and a strongly worded letter should be written and addressed to the head of administration.

Noctis' case was a mistake made on my part that I honored (accidentally deleting his old account and not his new account.)

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On 12/27/2019 at 1:01 PM, Alex said:

Noctis' case was a mistake made on my part that I honored (accidentally deleting his old account and not his new account.)

Why should he be the special case who gets two accounts? One at least ought to be disabled, since literally nobody else gets to have two accounts.

Sort of related to the subject of warning points, why are the punishments for warning points so clearly outlined and why do they escalate so quickly? It seems to me that it removes a lot of flexibility from the moderation staff, as it means that someone can either get a warning for a fairly minor offense and get muted for just over two weeks, or a person who is sufficiently canny can just skirt the edge of the rules.

Is there any reason moderators cannot mute someone for six hours or remove their ability to post in a specific subforum?

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19 hours ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

I got hit by a ton of warn points as well, good to see justice was served elsewhere at least. Lol

@Olive Penderghast still best mod.

If you don't have anything relevant to say, consider saying nothing.

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Just now, dragonshardz said:

If you don't have anything relevant to say, consider saying nothing.

I see you guys complaining I didn't get enough warns supposedly, when I got 4. If you guys weren't whining about getting warns and the mods not handing out enough warns for you at the same time, wouldn't seem so ridiculous. The crying over the rules applying to you guys as well. Suck it up.

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1 hour ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

I see you guys complaining I didn't get enough warns supposedly, when I got 4. If you guys weren't whining about getting warns and the mods not handing out enough warns for you at the same time, wouldn't seem so ridiculous. The crying over the rules applying to you guys as well. Suck it up.

Again, if you have nothing relevant to post, consider not posting.

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Just now, dragonshardz said:

Again, if you have nothing relevant to post, consider not posting.

My name kept being brought up, take your own advice & consider not dragging me into your drama if you want no comment.

You’re welcome for the advice.

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Regardless of Noctis' derail, I would still like an answer to my questions earlier, please? @Alex?

I feel that one of the challenges currently faced by the moderation team is that the process is a black box to most users. They report a post, and then there's no visible record of what, if any, action was taken. One thing that I know helps cultivate a positive environment and opinion of moderation teams is a public record of the offenses and actions taken, sort of a rap sheet. This would cleanly avert any instances of people mistakenly thinking they were warned multiple times for the same post, as the moderation team would be able to point confused users to the public rap sheet for anyone as the canonical record of why, when, and how strongly they were thwacked with a rolled-up newspaper.

Edited by dragonshardz

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56 minutes ago, dragonshardz said:

Regardless of Noctis' derail, I would still like an answer to my questions earlier, please? @Alex?

I feel that one of the challenges currently faced by the moderation team is that the process is a black box to most users. They report a post, and then there's no visible record of what, if any, action was taken. One thing that I know helps cultivate a positive environment and opinion of moderation teams is a public record of the offenses and actions taken, sort of a rap sheet. This would cleanly avert any instances of people mistakenly thinking they were warned multiple times for the same post, as the moderation team would be able to point confused users to the public rap sheet for anyone as the canonical record of why, when, and how strongly they were thwacked with a rolled-up newspaper.

The mods are pretty much incapable of choosing how hard to whack somebody. When you're warned it either carries a single warning point or it doesn't. If it doesn't nothing happens. If it does you get muted for an hour, then 8, and then so on until you reach 7 points where the forums software itself automatically bans you.

Essentially meaning any post with a warning point is just as bad as any other with one, even if one is an NDF warn and the other was some guy promoting death camps.

Which ultimately means I'm closer to permaban than Kosmo despite like half my warning points being for calling someone and their alliance shit at this game while Kosmo  OOC attacks damn near 15 people everytime he posts.

Welcome to a broken moderation system that doesn't know quite what it's doing.

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On 12/30/2019 at 6:59 PM, dragonshardz said:

Why should he be the special case who gets two accounts? One at least ought to be disabled, since literally nobody else gets to have two accounts.

Sort of related to the subject of warning points, why are the punishments for warning points so clearly outlined and why do they escalate so quickly? It seems to me that it removes a lot of flexibility from the moderation staff, as it means that someone can either get a warning for a fairly minor offense and get muted for just over two weeks, or a person who is sufficiently canny can just skirt the edge of the rules.

Is there any reason moderators cannot mute someone for six hours or remove their ability to post in a specific subforum?

He's not allowed multiple forum accounts. There was a mix-up some time ago and by mistake I banned the old forum account and not the new one, I honored my mistake and let him keep the new forum account. But that was just an error on my part.

As for the forum rules, they're outlined for everyone to read and everyone agrees to them when they register an account. In my opinion, the rules are very generous- you get 7 strikes and you're out. Warnings automatically expire after 90 days, which is generous as well.

Follow the rules, and you won't get any warnings, suspensions, etc. Something like 90% of the forum users have 0 warning points and don't have that problem at all.

Just now, Akuryo said:

The mods are pretty much incapable of choosing how hard to whack somebody. When you're warned it either carries a single warning point or it doesn't. If it doesn't nothing happens. If it does you get muted for an hour, then 8, and then so on until you reach 7 points where the forums software itself automatically bans you.

Essentially meaning any post with a warning point is just as bad as any other with one, even if one is an NDF warn and the other was some guy promoting death camps.

Which ultimately means I'm closer to permaban than Kosmo despite like half my warning points being for calling someone and their alliance shit at this game while Kosmo  OOC attacks damn near 15 people everytime he posts.

Welcome to a broken moderation system that doesn't know quite what it's doing.

It's not my fault if you can't stop breaking the rules. Like I said in my previous post - follow the rules and you don't have to worry about it.

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Generous would be if moderators could give you timeouts as applicable to the context of the offense, instead of a blind policy of seven strikes. Having a rigid policy is counterproductive, as it allows canny repeat offenders to just barely skirt the line and continue to get away with being a negative influence on the community.

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6 hours ago, Alex said:

He's not allowed multiple forum accounts. There was a mix-up some time ago and by mistake I banned the old forum account and not the new one, I honored my mistake and let him keep the new forum account. But that was just an error on my part.

As for the forum rules, they're outlined for everyone to read and everyone agrees to them when they register an account. In my opinion, the rules are very generous- you get 7 strikes and you're out. Warnings automatically expire after 90 days, which is generous as well.

Follow the rules, and you won't get any warnings, suspensions, etc. Something like 90% of the forum users have 0 warning points and don't have that problem at all.

It's not my fault if you can't stop breaking the rules. Like I said in my previous post - follow the rules and you don't have to worry about it.

It's not my fault if you have an arbitrary rule set backed by a shitty system that equates inequal things with no option to do otherwise.

Quit this myopic bullshit of pretending your system is just fine and nothing is wrong with it. It's garbage. Your vague ruleset sees the world in black and grey, but the world is thousands of colors. Wake the hell up and stop giving people attitude because you can't figure out how to make a functioning moderation system. You can literally Google it or ask people who play the game that know how but instead you'd rather insist everything is fine and perfect. Nationstates system is crap to people who've moderates professionally but they admit that it's actually functional and doesn't leave you guessing much. 

I can't wait to see the fire under your ass when the dozen+ groups of people making their own games start coming out the woodworks. It's time for the free market to roast your ass, honestly. Your constant dismissive attitude deserves it. Make more jokes about starving in your ads too, not that you've ever experienced 16 days without food.

 

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1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

It's not my fault if you have an arbitrary rule set backed by a shitty system that equates inequal things with no option to do otherwise.

Quit this myopic bullshit of pretending your system is just fine and nothing is wrong with it. It's garbage. Your vague ruleset sees the world in black and grey, but the world is thousands of colors. Wake the hell up and stop giving people attitude because you can't figure out how to make a functioning moderation system. You can literally Google it or ask people who play the game that know how but instead you'd rather insist everything is fine and perfect. Nationstates system is crap to people who've moderates professionally but they admit that it's actually functional and doesn't leave you guessing much. 

I can't wait to see the fire under your ass when the dozen+ groups of people making their own games start coming out the woodworks. It's time for the free market to roast your ass, honestly. Your constant dismissive attitude deserves it. Make more jokes about starving in your ads too, not that you've ever experienced 16 days without food.

 

To many warn points are given for things which deserve a verbal at most. I don’t think I’ve gotten any verbal on this account & didn’t even know I broke a rule when getting pretty much all of them. (Derailing where I didn’t think so, responding to frivolous report threads targeting me, etc)

All the grey area stuff not clearly banned should at most get a verbal to start & then be explicitly banned in the rules before people get points for it. Warn points & suspensions shouldn’t be given on vague rules largely made up on the spot based on research done with the intention of proving a false meaning behind a meme or something which can indirectly linked to anything Nazi.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

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