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Question for all Coalition leadership.


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On 12/14/2019 at 2:32 AM, Hodor said:

That being said, do you want to change this? I do. I don't think this silly grudge match system is fun in the long term

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

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1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

Should they be speaking directly to Roq rather than people like Malal? Why they’re speaking with people trolling them rather than Roq is where at a glance it looks like they’re maybe approaching it wrong for results.

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1 hour ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Should they be speaking directly to Roq rather than people like Malal? Why they’re speaking with people trolling them rather than Roq is where at a glance it looks like they’re maybe approaching it wrong for results.

Because Roq will troll harder

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War can be won still if non-IQ Apex & Fark Sphere can be brought together somehow; splitting most of Apex from IQ.

Shouldn’t be to hard. Leave this hint in case Alex does ban members over BS reports by goons. As I won’t stick around if he does ban any to assist goons.

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6 hours ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Should they be speaking directly to Roq rather than people like Malal? Why they’re speaking with people trolling them rather than Roq is where at a glance it looks like they’re maybe approaching it wrong for results.

That hasn't been a matter of choice. Approaches have been made to gov, who have deferred to malal.

7 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

My "IC ripostes" to you and others from 2014 'till now have always rather rich in content, friend. You may claim many a thing about me, but not that :P

 

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9 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

Considering the spirit of this can be applied in reverse as well, I'd say it starts with the attitudes of the leaders on both sides and that won't change without actual earnest communication. It's not something that'll change overnight and there's no quick fix. I've had an open invitation to talk to me for months now though should anyone want to actually take it up.

Edited by Princess Adrienne

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1 hour ago, Princess Adrienne said:

Considering the spirit of this can be applied in reverse as well, I'd say it starts with the attitudes of the leaders on both sides and that won't change without actual earnest communication. It's not something that'll change overnight and there's no quick fix. I've had an open invitation to talk to me for months now though should anyone want to actually take it up.

Same here, though it will require yall recognizing me as gov and not just Buor and Sketchy :P

I'm also happy to initiate ? 

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18 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

As an independent, but ever hopeful, citizen of Orbis:

NPO could start "the path forward" by working out a peace deal with parties who have already publicly surrendered, and not allowing your coalition to hit uninvolved parties that have already peaced out once.

Edited by Bartholomew Roberts
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18 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

If you don't want people to connect what you are doing to your actions in an outside world, quit doing the same things you did in that other world.  There were a lot of people, myself included, who gave NPO the benefit of the doubt* and hoped that you would behave in a different manner.  You had the chance with how you handled peace in this war to show that you weren't going to do the things in victory that people disliked so much about NPO in other words, and you failed miserably.

It's ironic that you complain about people not liking or trusting NPO when you seem to be going out of your way to give people reasons to dislike and distrust you.

I'm sure you'll try to twist my words as evidence of our side's undying hatred of NPO (even though I'm only low gov econ in one alliance) and desire to destroy NPO.  I don't want to destroy NPO. In spite of this crap, there are good things about NPO and I do think you add something to the world.  But your actions have given myself and many others great reason to oppose NPO dominance in the broader global sphere.  Instead of complaining about it, you should do some introspection about how your actions feed that attitude.

*Yes I had issues with Roq but that wasn't NPO specifically, I was supportive of TKR's NPO ties before Roq became Emperor.

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1 hour ago, Azaghul said:

If you don't want people to connect what you are doing to your actions in an outside world, quit doing the same things you did in that other world.  There were a lot of people, myself included, who gave NPO the benefit of the doubt* and hoped that you would behave in a different manner.  You had the chance with how you handled peace in this war to show that you weren't going to do the things in victory that people disliked so much about NPO in other words, and you failed miserably.

It's ironic that you complain about people not liking or trusting NPO when you seem to be going out of your way to give people reasons to dislike and distrust you.

I'm sure you'll try to twist my words as evidence of our side's undying hatred of NPO (even though I'm only low gov econ in one alliance) and desire to destroy NPO.  I don't want to destroy NPO. In spite of this crap, there are good things about NPO and I do think you add something to the world.  But your actions have given myself and many others great reason to oppose NPO dominance in the broader global sphere.  Instead of complaining about it, you should do some introspection about how your actions feed that attitude.

*Yes I had issues with Roq but that wasn't NPO specifically, I was supportive of TKR's NPO ties before Roq became Emperor.

Think many of us wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Wouldn’t surprise if they’re of the “Everything Must Die” (Unjust Path) mindset rather than believe what they’re doing is sustainable long term.

I kind of feel like Roq has already decided to burn down as much as possible. Keshav’s beliefs will tend to be support him. If this Roq’s way of burning out of the game, kind of epic way to go out. So I think we obviously can’t let his slow burn turn into a totalitarian hegemony with goons. Although Roq might actually being more towards global anarchy than a hegemony; which I can respect somewhat.

Goons actually might believe they might get to be hegemony.

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23 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Goons actually might believe they might get to be hegemony.

Which is completely stupid of them; even if they did manage it, the only way they can enforce it is by using moderation as their own personal army. Which is working; they've managed to literally cause people to be banned based on pre-censored images.

The problem is simply that there's no point for them to bother playing if they're purely going to spend their energies and efforts to make everyone's experience as bad as possible, their own certainly included.

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22 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do not believe there is a via medium where we can change this meta between the respective players easily. If this war has showed anything it is the toxic underbelly that has come out wide open. How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid." Its just the actions taken so far seem to follow a pattern, one we've been watching over the years and for everything we've done to help change the meta or even attempt to reach out half way to your side of the pond, all we got is "it's not good enough" or if we did take independent action the line is "paranoia." 

 

At the end of the day the simplest way to change this is if your side stopped attempting to connect our actions here with an outside world and try to attribute that to killing this game as if its some NPO mantra. But that's not going to go. Your coalition and our coalition have drawn the lines in the sand. Where really is a way out. Your member base has made it clear that NPO bad man, so where exactly is the path forward? 

tl;dr "I, choosing to ignore all of the (in-game) evidence, don't understand how I (or anyone [Roq] so closely associated with myself) should be held culpable for responsibility of the direct result of my (and/or our) actions leading up to current events.

Ignoring all evidence opposed to the fact that we acted in good faith, WE ACTED IN GOOD FAITH (repeat ad nauseam).

(*)Engage: Gaslight: It's obviously your (your = not us) fault that we (we = not you) are acting the way that we (we = not us unless it suits our narrative) are reacting. 

---Attempt Failed--- NPO: Invoke: Other Game (that everyone else here was either not part of or actively attempts to avoid): stop bringing this back! Loop back to (*)

Edited by Sisyphus
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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

The problem is simply that there's no point for them to bother playing if they're purely going to spend their energies and efforts to make everyone's experience as bad as possible, their own certainly included.

The problem is that this has been a self-admitted IQ strategy from (pretty much) the get-go (once they understood they wouldn't topple things immediately).

GOONS is the budding algae on the surface of the real problem: neo-IQ players are (and have been) attempting to kill off the "livestock" by poisoning the water. 

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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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3 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Which is completely stupid of them; even if they did manage it, the only way they can enforce it is by using moderation as their own personal army. Which is working; they've managed to literally cause people to be banned based on pre-censored images.

The problem is simply that there's no point for them to bother playing if they're purely going to spend their energies and efforts to make everyone's experience as bad as possible, their own certainly included.

I think they were actually mostly brought to troll everyone on the forums, initially it was claimed they didn't have long term ambitions here. So possible they've just started believing their own trolling, which occupies around 98% of the posts from Coalition B these. Although at least we're still reminded there are some people who still care about the future of the game from that side with the occasional post by kalev60, Epi & others who still do care about the game long term; although still fighting the same war from way back.

I think the CN style of play is much more ruthless than most in PnW are used to, with PnW having a more anarchist political makeup for it to even be possible for alliances like Arrgh to exist. Although goons bring with them the darkest and most immoral mindsets from CN which learned to enjoy the sadism of having been given a spot in an emerging hegemony without ever being a really powerful alliance & mostly reliant on their allies in CN. So most in Coalition B hate GOONS pretty much, lol.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

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5 hours ago, Azaghul said:

If you don't want people to connect what you are doing to your actions in an outside world, quit doing the same things you did in that other world.  There were a lot of people, myself included, who gave NPO the benefit of the doubt* and hoped that you would behave in a different manner.  You had the chance with how you handled peace in this war to show that you weren't going to do the things in victory that people disliked so much about NPO in other words, and you failed miserably.

It's ironic that you complain about people not liking or trusting NPO when you seem to be going out of your way to give people reasons to dislike and distrust you.

I'm sure you'll try to twist my words as evidence of our side's undying hatred of NPO (even though I'm only low gov econ in one alliance) and desire to destroy NPO.  I don't want to destroy NPO. In spite of this crap, there are good things about NPO and I do think you add something to the world.  But your actions have given myself and many others great reason to oppose NPO dominance in the broader global sphere.  Instead of complaining about it, you should do some introspection about how your actions feed that attitude.

*Yes I had issues with Roq but that wasn't NPO specifically, I was supportive of TKR's NPO ties before Roq became Emperor.

 

I'd call you out for being disingenuous, but I think your post history does more to showcase that then anything else really. This is February 2018 mind you, back when we had just come out of ToT, got hit by TJest and other stuff and here you are with your *benefit of the doubt. 

But your caveat pretty much proves my point, folks like you and a tonne of others refuse to work with Roquentin because of CN, so we've had to play the game here taking that into account. Anything and everything we do somehow has some connection to what the NPO did in CN, yet none of us in leadership here were apart of that, or see the parallels. 

 

2 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

tl;dr "I, choosing to ignore all of the (in-game) evidence, don't understand how I (or anyone [Roq] so closely associated with myself) should be held culpable for responsibility of the direct result of my (and/or our) actions leading up to current events.

Ignoring all evidence opposed to the fact that we acted in good faith, WE ACTED IN GOOD FAITH (repeat ad nauseam).

(*)Engage: Gaslight: It's obviously your (your = not us) fault that we (we = not you) are acting the way that we (we = not us unless it suits our narrative) are reacting. 

---Attempt Failed--- NPO: Invoke: Other Game (that everyone else here was either not part of or actively attempts to avoid): stop bringing this back! Loop back to (*)

I thank you for teaching us how exactly to win at this game. Your wonderful advice as allies has indeed come in handy! 

15 hours ago, Princess Adrienne said:

Considering the spirit of this can be applied in reverse as well, I'd say it starts with the attitudes of the leaders on both sides and that won't change without actual earnest communication. It's not something that'll change overnight and there's no quick fix. I've had an open invitation to talk to me for months now though should anyone want to actually take it up.

And vice versa yet you haven't taken that up. So let's just say there is no motivation in either side to move forward and the attitudes are dug in. So here we are. 

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45 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

And vice versa yet you haven't taken that up. So let's just say there is no motivation in either side to move forward and the attitudes are dug in. So here we are. 

I don't recall a similar offer being made but if there was one and I missed it, my apologies. I also seem to remember your leader saying he hadn't taken me up on mine because he didn't see much of a point at the moment. If this viewpoint has changed, I'm happy to start up a dialogue with you guys.

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On 12/16/2019 at 12:33 AM, Shadowthrone said:

How do you change the meta when the only IC riposte to Roquentin or myself is "you're paranoid."

Are you serious?

Are you legit serious here?  Not trolling?

Edited by Buorhann
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23 hours ago, Micchan said:

Because Roq will troll harder

If Leo was forward thinking, he'd probably want to make bridges with alliances like TKR & build good will toward future relations where they really can fully break off from the IQ Hegemony meta. So depending who asks him, maybe he could see opportunity in helping.

Although most of them are just motivated to do whatever those in charge want, so kind of Roq who needs to be convinced there is a way out of the corner he's got himself stuck in by now.

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1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said:

Anything and everything we do somehow has some connection to what the NPO did in CN, yet none of us in leadership here were apart of that, or see the parallels. 

Don’t even worry about cn, friend. You’ve all done enough this war to show how awful you are in the here and now. 

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