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Maelstrom Vortex
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9 hours ago, Mayor said:

This is exactly it. Same shit happens every time someone finds a way to fight back. It's not enough having thousands of nations on your side, NPO and their protectorates want everyone not on their side of the war to be able to do shit all (no ground means also no money for nukes and missiles) so that they can just sit for months on their enemies, never negotiate peace, and ruin the game by trying to make it "more realistic". Whenever I click the "Declare War" button I always think to myself how incredibly realistic this game is.

Perhaps we should be wondering about the realism of a war where one side has clearly won, the other has surrendered, and yet the winners deliberately keep the war going over several years (Orbis time). When was the last time that happened in reality... ?

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38 minutes ago, Mandystalin said:

Perhaps we should be wondering about the realism of a war where one side has clearly won, the other has surrendered, and yet the winners deliberately keep the war going over several years (Orbis time). When was the last time that happened in reality... ?

I think the Emu's did this to Australia

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Notes to self @CandyShi and @Deulos are to partisan to take part in reasonable ooc discussion of game mechanics. They only know how to attack other players based on IC perspectives instead of debating the war mechanism outside of the lens of the underlying world politics. I will thus, discard their statements as such biased positions and not reply unless commenting improves and there is merit-able feedback and criticism to consider other than, "NPO BAD" "NPO JUST WANT TO ENSLAVE."

As for the rest of you suggesting that the same be applied to all unit types, Totally would be in favor of such a re-balance. I want to just see population actually mean something than be a seemingly arbitrary number that is the descriptor of a city and an economic state. I'm not even sure if population factors into current economic and tax calculations or if it is driven by purely infra and structure calculations, but if so then the fatigue on the population almost certainly would also impact the economics as well if so.. which is also fairly realistic. You lose a baker on the eastern front, he's not making any more cookies.

On 12/10/2019 at 4:03 PM, Mayor said:

This is exactly it. Same shit happens every time someone finds a way to fight back. It's not enough having thousands of nations on your side, NPO and their protectorates want everyone not on their side of the war to be able to do shit all (no ground means also no money for nukes and missiles) so that they can just sit for months on their enemies, never negotiate peace, and ruin the game by trying to make it "more realistic". Whenever I click the "Declare War" button I always think to myself how incredibly realistic this game is.

I think the game should focus on fun game play, allowing people to fight back in wars, encouraging people to continue to play this game (as boring as it already kinda is) rather than laser-beam focus on trying to make the soldiers in this game more "realistic" to real life wars and crap.

This reminds me of all those threads started years ago aiming at us in Political Pirates when we used the low infra/high improvement build before population control was in. People were lazy and just wanted an admin to help them continue to be lazy and not actually have to fight using the implemented war system. This is what this NPO suggestion reminds me of. I have no issue with changes to the game to make it more fun and active but changing things so they are more "realistic" and slow paced I think is a terrible decision.

Still thanks to Vortex for replying to individual replies above even those which he/she disagreed with. I just think that if realism is the true end-game here then Sheepy should just design a new game with a new ground-up war system rather than another band-aid war fix on-top of a system that was never particularity realistic to begin with in any way.

I'm not sure it would necessarily make the pace more slow. Think about the current state of the game where things run into limbo due to eternal warfare due to some simply not wanting to capitulate...

Imagine game where wars ended and totally new other conflicts were allowed to begin because people had no choice but end them as they were strategically exhausted in a more comprehensive manner. Those arguing because I am NPO I would want this to make it easier for NPO.. are clueless.. as we have already effectively won. Technically I might be arguing against our dominance IC, except that I trust us to master any systemic configuration we are presented.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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On 12/11/2019 at 1:53 AM, Mandystalin said:

Perhaps we should be wondering about the realism of a war where one side has clearly won, the other has surrendered, and yet the winners deliberately keep the war going over several years (Orbis time). When was the last time that happened in reality... ?

Sort of my point. When the enemy won't conclusively concede............ there is no motive to end a war. Ever. There is no reason to avoid eternal warfare. There are thus no new wars, total stagnation.

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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15 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

When the enemy won't conclusively concede............ there is no motive to end a war.

 

15 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I'm not sure it would necessarily make the pace more slow. Think about the current state of the game where things run into limbo due to eternal warfare due to some simply not wanting to capitulate...
 

 https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/26760-kerchtogg-coalition-announcement-on-peace/
https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/26759-yndicate-coalition-announcement-on-peace/

This Ain't It, Chief.

I would really suggest you go read some of the logs that George leaked, they kinda been posted all over the forum. It is confirmed that your goverment is purposefully dragging out peace talks, you can afterall find germs like this one:
https://pastebin.com/5CTuVwqG
And this one 
https://pastebin.com/Cd9uPEh5

They where on the first page i looked at. 
There is quite alot more that have been posted.  

Edited by Zim
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On 12/12/2019 at 10:35 PM, CandyShi said:

He says, completely dodging my point.

 

 

I wish I could win arguments by saying “I don’t want to listen to you so your point is invalid” as well. 
 

Edit: My point was that you appealing to “real soldiers” doesn’t hold water, when nukes are so weak that it should offend victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

aka. Everything is unrealistic, deal with it. It’s a video game. 

If your point was not merely in mockery of the discussion simply because it originated from me as a member of the NPO then you have a good one and as I've said previously, I am open to discussions about a population cost to all unit use.. this includes nukes and casualties caused by them though the aspect of casualties of war hadn't been addressed. By this account every method of attack should include non-combat casualties in the target cities. The way you phrased it did not appear of serious intent. You are right in the way the game handles nukes dishonoring the victims of the only two nuclear weapons uses in history.  However, I think for this to be set up right then it has to account for size and yield of weapons. It's not impossible this has been done in many a game and there's no reason it could not here. That too, would also accelerate war conclusions.

11 hours ago, Zim said:

 

 https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/26760-kerchtogg-coalition-announcement-on-peace/
https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/26759-yndicate-coalition-announcement-on-peace/

This Ain't It, Chief.

I would really suggest you go read some of the logs that George leaked, they kinda been posted all over the forum. It is confirmed that your goverment is purposefully dragging out peace talks, you can afterall find germs like this one:
https://pastebin.com/5CTuVwqG
And this one 
https://pastebin.com/Cd9uPEh5

They where on the first page i looked at. 
There is quite alot more that have been posted.  

Well, you also have a good, but different point as to what also causes wars not to end. If there is insufficient motive or reason to end a war, it may simply not be ended. We exist in a world where you cannot kill off the enemy as in the real one, a mere willingness to survive in an abysmal state is more than sufficient to keep some players going and their nations recovering. That said, unlike in reality where you can literally kill an enemy holding a grudge against you or make it so costly no one wishes to continue, that's just about impossible here. There is no easy remedy to the latter situation which wouldn't make either the game die, or a lot of people outright miserable.

I hate to think of Admin as forcing arbitrary "war-loss" measures and forcing peaces between parties, but I cannot think of any other solution that doesn't require systemic artificial manipulation in the presence of such wills. Automatic forced alliance level loss after set parameters are hit. There's also the problem that such parameters would be controversial, debatable, and potentially arbitrary as sometimes wars will be turned around with sufficient diligence and time.

It may be easy for some to dismiss my suggestions as the mere ramblings of a Member of the NPO, but those that know my history know I've actually assisted with authoring a war system for a game similar to this one. I have a minor in economics as part of my Masters in Information Systems as well and almost sought special accreditation in game-theory. I've contemplated war system development for game designs since SSI was still a thing and if I could do graphics and web dev with any level of artistic expertise I might well have made my own game.

My favorite part of P&W, for example, is the bid-ask system of economics. I would favor a more complex economy, but this one does the job and beats most out there.

I would also like to observe that if we go by the WW2 measure.. that Dresden and Tokyo firebombings killed a much greater many people than Nagasaki or Hiroshima, so the scale of all attacks would need to be intensely evaluated given that modern conventional arms have also substantially upped lethality.

We also may want to consider differentiation of nuke types as a neutron bomb purely hits pop, em purely hits infrastructure, and a dirty bomb causes long lasting devastation.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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3 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

If your point was not merely in mockery of the discussion simply because it originated from me as a member of the NPO then you have a good one and as I've said previously, I am open to discussions about a population cost to all unit use. 

This is an interesting read but you have an obvious bias, after however number of months of the enemy fighting back with soldiers you decided to vent and ask to nerf them. There is no escaping that.

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1 hour ago, Clarke said:

This is an interesting read but you have an obvious bias, after however number of months of the enemy fighting back with soldiers you decided to vent and ask to nerf them. There is no escaping that.

Given it's wrong, there's an easy escape.

I am biased because every other war sim I've ever been in population meant something and troop count was directly related. Here there is no such relation. Has the fact that the wars appear to manifest that way brought it to my attention? Definitely. But it's possible to observe something without it directly generating a bias.  It's also possible to argue that observation on its own merits, which is what I am doing.

I'm still up on my overall war damage, my performance is not bad as some might seem to think it is. Also I'm currently in a position where some loss is literally expected and anticipated. There's always going to be a cost to keeping people buckled under your thumb.

How much skill does it take to buy troops and just shove them at people? That's what gets me. Other than time of day and number of barracks it's a ridiculously simple but effective strategy... that should be neither. Modern wars simply do not work that way... and never will. Seems a lot of people here have been claiming I am lazy or some such.. But.. isn't it lazier to spam a single unit type over and over again.. than it is to actually stage.. you know.. more complex strategies of which.. all are more complex than troop spam? Add a single tank.. still more complex than troop spam.

I have to mock the strategy because though  it is effective.. it's totally worthy of the meme... is there an infinite soldiers meme? If there isn't I need to so spawn one now. Maybe just one of an army of clones going "hup hup hup hup"....

OOh, nevermind, got the perfect one..

When you realize your soldiers are ESO Pcs:
 


Eternal in number, Resurrection, and fighting against the big-bad they will never quite defeat.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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1 hour ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Given it's wrong, there's an easy escape.

I am biased because every other war sim I've ever been in population meant something and troop count was directly related. Here there is no such relation. Has the fact that the wars appear to manifest that way brought it to my attention? Definitely. But it's possible to observe something without it directly generating a bias.  It's also possible to argue that observation on its own merits, which is what I am doing.

I'm still up on my overall war damage, my performance is not bad as some might seem to think it is. Also I'm currently in a position where some loss is literally expected and anticipated. There's always going to be a cost to keeping people buckled under your thumb.

How much skill does it take to buy troops and just shove them at people? That's what gets me. Other than time of day and number of barracks it's a ridiculously simple but effective strategy... that should be neither. Modern wars simply do not work that way... and never will. Seems a lot of people here have been claiming I am lazy or some such.. But.. isn't it lazier to spam a single unit type over and over again.. than it is to actually stage.. you know.. more complex strategies of which.. all are more complex than troop spam? Add a single tank.. still more complex than troop spam.

I have to mock the strategy because though  it is effective.. it's totally worthy of the meme... is there an infinite soldiers meme? If there isn't I need to so spawn one now. Maybe just one of an army of clones going "hup hup hup hup"....

OOh, nevermind, got the perfect one..

When you realize your soldiers are ESO Pcs:
 


Eternal in number, Resurrection, and fighting against the big-bad they will never quite defeat.

I have to factor in my population size every time I purchase troops and I assume it the same way for most people fighting in this war. So that is factually wrong as I myself can prove population is a factor in soldiers, its just not a factor when you have a massive population base like 10 million or such.

How much skill does it take to buy airplanes and shove them at people? The same argument can be made for every military unit.

My next game suggestion is actually reduce the soldier losses from airplanes targeting soldiers by 75%.

Edited by Clarke
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9 hours ago, Clarke said:

I have to factor in my population size every time I purchase troops and I assume it the same way for most people fighting in this war. So that is factually wrong as I myself can prove population is a factor in soldiers, its just not a factor when you have a massive population base like 10 million or such.

How much skill does it take to buy airplanes and shove them at people? The same argument can be made for every military unit.

My next game suggestion is actually reduce the soldier losses from airplanes targeting soldiers by 75%.

Agreed soldiers are killed by planes in unreal number. Soldier casualty from airstrikes should be reduced to real numbers.

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On 12/14/2019 at 6:17 AM, Clarke said:

I have to factor in my population size every time I purchase troops and I assume it the same way for most people fighting in this war. So that is factually wrong as I myself can prove population is a factor in soldiers, its just not a factor when you have a massive population base like 10 million or such.

How much skill does it take to buy airplanes and shove them at people? The same argument can be made for every military unit.

My next game suggestion is actually reduce the soldier losses from airplanes targeting soldiers by 75%.

10 Million is not a massive population base for an army.. at least not in reality.

At least with the tanks and the aircraft you have to take into account cost and do math to decide if an attack is even worth it, because on troop spammers.. who have crazy low infra.. and yet somehow support millions of people, it never will be...

I guess someone likes living in fairy-tale land. Daisy cutters and A-10s.. Guess you weren't alive for gulf war 1.
 

Historical homework for this discussion: Look up the events regarding the highway of death.. and then you'll understand what air power actually does to un-escorted troops and ground equipment: Here's your quick summary:

"During the American led coalition offensive in the Persian Gulf War, American, Canadian, British and French aircraft and ground forces attacked retreating Iraqi military personnel attempting to leave Kuwait on the night of February 26–27, 1991, resulting in the destruction of hundreds of vehicles and the deaths of many of their occupants. Between 1,400 and 2,000 vehicles were hit or abandoned on the main Highway 80 north of Al Jahra.

The scenes of devastation on the road are some of the most recognizable images of the war, and it has been suggested that they were a factor in President George H. W. Bush's decision to declare a cessation of hostilities the next day.[6] Many Iraqi forces, however, successfully escaped across the Euphrates river, and the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency estimated that upwards of 70,000 to 80,000 troops from defeated divisions in Kuwait might have fled into Basra, evading capture.[7]"

At least you can be honest in saying you're trying to distort the game to fit your agenda. I'm just going by history.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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2 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

At least you can be honest in saying you're trying to distort the game to fit your agenda. I'm just going by history.

Realistically my nation would be extremely defensible from aircraft with anti-air weaponry manned by soldiers against lesser developed nations with their Mickey mouse armies. 

I'm not trying to distort the game, you're trying to distort it lol. I don't want any change.

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On 12/14/2019 at 6:17 AM, Clarke said:

My next game suggestion is actually reduce the soldier losses from airplanes targeting soldiers by 75%.

Absent that, your last statement would be true. Except there's no real tech measure in this game to establish who is mickey mouse.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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51 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Absent that, your last statement would be true. Except there's no real tech measure in this game to establish who is mickey mouse.

I never made a thread with that suggestion so I have distorted nothing whereas you have ?. With your proposal however a change like that would be necessary to keep soldiers relevant. 

There's measures that could be used to indicate progress, number of projects, cities and age which combined could be used in a formula to indicate tech level. 

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24 minutes ago, Clarke said:

I never made a thread with that suggestion so I have distorted nothing whereas you have ?. With your proposal however a change like that would be necessary to keep soldiers relevant. 

There's measures that could be used to indicate progress, number of projects, cities and age which combined could be used in a formula to indicate tech level. 

I am well and content that the projects be used as multipliers of effects,  but it isn't tech level. Not even close. Not even a real solid indicator of tech progress. I mean I believe you and I both know that not every missile system is the same. I'd like to see you conduct AA operations with a V1.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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34 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I am well and content that the projects be used as multipliers of effects,  but it isn't tech level. Not even close. Not even a real solid indicator of tech progress. I mean I believe you and I both know that not every missile system is the same. I'd like to see you conduct AA operations with a V1.

Your way of thinking of the game and the war mechanics is overly complicated. Its a bad habit to compare everything to real life, this is a game. Not many games are realistic and if they were  they would probably be boring. 

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21 hours ago, Clarke said:

Your way of thinking of the game and the war mechanics is overly complicated. Its a bad habit to compare everything to real life, this is a game. Not many games are realistic and if they were  they would probably be boring. 

Except many games that are extremely successful are antithetical to that statement. I can cite several, but I respect the work done here not to advertise. The only one I have mentioned in passing has a complex battle system but a fairly basic economy, but is mostly dieing or dead, was Nationsgame. It had complex war systems and the game was crazy exciting, people had to actively man battles for up to a week. It was also somewhat brutal in that regard. *chortle* I'm not saying take it that far, I am saying improvements can be made. The only reason it isn't dominant right now is because it was a pet project, not a full blown enterprise, and after a time it was somewhat abandoned by its creator.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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Using the Iraqi 'Highway of Death' to say that real-world airstrikes are massively effective against infantry is rather disingenuous. Yes, aircraft will inflict high amounts of damage attacking a dense column of slow-moving, troop-filled vehicles following a road and with no cover. See also the Falaise pocket.

 

But aircraft attacking dug-in troops, properly dispersed and camouflaged? Not so effective. In fact even with all your fancy modern weaponry there is still a high chance that such a strike will miss its target altogether.

 

Reality falls, as ever, somewhere between the extremes.

 

But hey, if you want realism, let's add 'friendly fire', and give the attacking nation some tank/infantry casualties too

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3 hours ago, Mandystalin said:

Using the Iraqi 'Highway of Death' to say that real-world airstrikes are massively effective against infantry is rather disingenuous. Yes, aircraft will inflict high amounts of damage attacking a dense column of slow-moving, troop-filled vehicles following a road and with no cover. See also the Falaise pocket.

 

But aircraft attacking dug-in troops, properly dispersed and camouflaged? Not so effective. In fact even with all your fancy modern weaponry there is still a high chance that such a strike will miss its target altogether.

 

Reality falls, as ever, somewhere between the extremes.

 

But hey, if you want realism, let's add 'friendly fire', and give the attacking nation some tank/infantry casualties too


I have no objections to that either!

 

3 hours ago, XSSJBONGWEEDL0RD420 said:

its just a browser game lets not get carried away

The ones that got carried away are some of the good ones.

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

>!

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17 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Except many games that are extremely successful are antithetical to that statement. I can cite several, but I respect the work done here not to advertise. The only one I have mentioned in passing has a complex battle system but a fairly basic economy, but is mostly dieing or dead, was Nationsgame. It had complex war systems and the game was crazy exciting, people had to actively man battles for up to a week. It was also somewhat brutal in that regard. *chortle* I'm not saying take it that far, I am saying improvements can be made. The only reason it isn't dominant right now is because it was a pet project, not a full blown enterprise, and after a time it was somewhat abandoned by its creator.

I get that you want the game to be better and more fun and that's great but lets be realistic, Sheepy does not like sweeping game changes and most likely simply making soldiers/ships strategy nerfed and by your own words trying to force your enemy coalition to the peace table through these changes unilaterally isn't a good way to go about changing the game. If Alex wants to redesign the entire war system into a better one that is up to him but most likely he will just take the route he usually does and make the soldier/ship strategy not viable through some fix, most likely make planes even more powerful and the game more unbalanced towards planes (do we want balance or realism?). I always viewed the soldiers strategy as kind of a guerrilla war strat so without it really the game becomes even more boring. Rather than fight and get some wins I just get to be destroyed over and over again until NPO decides they have destroyed me enough, or my alliance is disbanded, or whatever terms forced on me simply cause I couldn't fight back against the 1000 nations fighting against me. If Sheepy wants to nerf soldiers there has to be a way for the losers to fight back against massive numbers of enemies outside of "just surrender already and deal with it".

Poor Arrgh if Alex decide to implement your suggested changes. And once again if he does we will know for sure this time that Alex totally has a vendetta against Arrgh! :3

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, that's the thing about balance? What is it really? To me it's arbitrary.

Realism is not arbitrary.  Realism works on known functions of actual nations and attempts to emulate them.. and since the game is Politics and War I was under the impression it was what is sought. True, it's a game, but at the end of the day, why do we play? To arbitrarily pump numbers to be better than the next guy or to emulate nation states?

In reality, nations get curb stomped all the time by the great powers, there is no sense of balance.. and pirates are pretty much refined to small sections of the African coast. Well, they get curb stomped til the next great alliance comes along and undoes that. Hegemony flux through history. I don't have anything against Arrgh, pirates have their place in the world.. but to think of them as ever being anything other than bait for a greater fleet or power isn't balance, is simply a distortion of reality in an attempt to prop up a few people on bad mechanics. To me, I could not justify my nation built on such strength, I'd leave the game because i'd feel like I'd been cheating the system to be relevant. If I am in a game that somewhat attempts to emulate international and political interactions, I expect some degree of accuracy in the simulation, but as I said, to each their own. Arcade States is fine.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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22 hours ago, CandyShi said:

Unfortunately, a game called politics and war will not have any war if hegemony takes over.

Also you seem to still be suggesting realism that only benefits your personal interests.

 

I therefore propose that population can never increase within term. Instead, it will take 9 in game months for the population to increase by 1.5-2 times from an infrastructure increase.

 

Why limit bigger nations from attacking smaller ones too? In the pursuit of realism I’d propose that there be no score limits on declaring war or espionage.

 

Why limit the number of wars a nation can be in as well? That doesn’t seem very realistic.

 

I also propose that in the pursuit of realism, if more than 1000 nukes are detonated all nations in the world get banned permanently. Sounds pretty realistic to me. 
 

I also propose that you be able to build anti aircraft gun projects, or maybe introduce global warming as a debuff for all the coal? 
 

Call this all a mild proposal. Maybe even... A Modest Proposal. Just call me Jonathan Swift.

Hah, that'd actually be pretty cool for it to increase naturally like that.

You're right, such limits shouldn't exist. After all, that's what alliances are for, you think this is absurd, but I think the game would rebalance itself politically in line with the new reality.

I agree. open it all up.

Resets based on a genuine nuclear winter could make things extremely interesting, especially if we allowed for spec ops teams removal of nukes or the destruction of production facilities.

Totally for the anti-aircraft gun projects and the coal global warming debuff, after all, I'm a nuke nation. Go nukes.. 

It'd make for a much more fascinating scenario, that's for certain. I've played nation sims for over a decade. You seem to think a 9 month project or wait time would put me off, it wouldn't :) And I like to think there are others like me who are long term planners.

You seem to think these things would hurt the NPO or our planning or our methods. Thus why you hit on these topics, or maybe you genuinely are suggesting these.. either way, they work for me because I know one fundamental fact when it comes to the NPO:

We will thrive whatever environment we are put in, we will adapt. My only complaint about this one is we have had to adapt to  soldier spam cheese. Then again, I suppose this is a good way of making the game playable by a broader base. Enable no-plan simplistic players a grind method as an out to retain relevance. To each their own..

 

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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