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LImit troop spam.


Maelstrom Vortex
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When was the last time you saw a modern war profitably won by soldiers alone? .. Maybe 2 centuries ago? So why is it true in this game that people get away with constant cheap troop spam that gives them a resource advantage?

In my opinion, troop spam is too simple, to easy, and to cheap with no consequence to playing nations and makes it far to easy a tactic in the wars. There are a number of ways this can be remedied:

1. Increase cost of troops.
2. Make population matter by:
    A. Having war weariness affect recruitment rates/capacity as a multiplier/modifier.
    B. Calculating an actual troop availability based on city populations for an overall time period, say a week or a month, and have that depleted and re-grow at specific rates. IE: City of 100,000 people has 5000 troops killed, leaving 95,000 population of which 33,000 is recruit-able based on fighting ages. Once fighting age pool is depleted, despite barracks count, no more troops become recruit-able until the pool recovers.
3. Have cost of troops increase each time the capacity of a barracks is used, have it slowly recover over time to normal levels when not utilized.

1 and 2a are arguably the simplest means of affecting the changes because war weariness calculations can be applied directly to all barracks generically as can troop cost increases. The 2b and 3 are more complicated but arguably likely to give a more realistic war performance.

Yes, I know we are not going for a complex sim. However, I thought these would be ideas that could help improve perceived game quality in terms of realism and therefore worth mentioning. This will make this game more, "Politics and War" and less "Politics and Clone Wars".

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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27 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Why not use the same logic for the rest of troops then? It's not like you are using unmaned aircraft, tanks or ships. You still use people for them.

That's already factored in. When you make tanks, you use alum. When you make ships, you use steel. When you make spies, you use training slots. When you make missiles, you use a variety of resources, same for Nukes..

But other than cash.. what do you use to make soldiers? You need people, to make people.. not just training and cash. But that's not represented anywhere. You are correct though, crewing could be factored into the assembly of the other units as well. There's no reason it couldn't be though it is possible to have drone aircraft, tanks, and ships.. the plausibility of an entire force of such is currently miniscule.

But the oversight of needing people to make troops.. is a huge one, imho. The probability you're going to drain a population piloting aircraft, ships, or tanks though is much lower than in powering an infantry regiment. Destroy (the fighting portion of) an armor division, maybe lose a couple thousand personnel.. destroy (the fighting portion of) an air wing.. maybe a few hundred..  destroy a ship, maybe a couple hundred... destroy an infantry division.. tens of thousands. I'm not factoring in logistics systems because that's not what the game system is concerned with.. it assumes those forces exist operationally in the background as part of infrastructure.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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Help perceived game quality...

By making it literally impossible for the people you're holding down to do anything ever?

Fun fact: fighter pilots are extremely skilled and finite resources which everyone in both sides would've expended looooong ago. You'd be having my old JROTC high school students flying your F-16s and probably crashing on take-off or blacking out in turns. 

Not everyone can do that job, unlike an infantryman, which I comparison has almost no requirements except "don't be physically or mentally disabled".

 

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5 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

1982

next

I guarantee you no one in Vietnam on the fighting side would have thought that war, "profitable." One of the most costly wars in history for both parties. US defeat had nothing to do with resources, everything to do with political willpower and the way the war was started.

12 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Help perceived game quality...

By making it literally impossible for the people you're holding down to do anything ever?

Fun fact: fighter pilots are extremely skilled and finite resources which everyone in both sides would've expended looooong ago. You'd be having my old JROTC high school students flying your F-16s and probably crashing on take-off or blacking out in turns. 

Not everyone can do that job, unlike an infantryman, which I comparison has almost no requirements except "don't be physically or mentally disabled".

 

Then by all means, lets set down a calculation for fighter pilots and tank crews as well. My basic point is that population should matter. Right now it's an arbitrary number that serves no real purpose. You could calculate the economy and military without even factoring in population or its depletion.

Technically as a lower city count state.. my projections would actually hinder me relative to most of those I'd be fighting. Therefore, your argument is intellectually dishonest in saying 'I would use this to keep my enemies down forever'. More than likely, it'd actually be the inverse.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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No. The only reason why soldiers can be spamed, is due to a lack of organisation of lower city count nations. 

 

Manpower can for sure be an interesting mechanic to stop eternal war, but the soldiers are ok for the current system.

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Opinions are my own.

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18 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I guarantee you no one in Vietnam on the fighting side would have thought that war, "profitable." One of the most costly wars in history for both parties. US defeat had nothing to do with resources, everything to do with political willpower and the way the war was started.

Yes... I'm referring to the Falklands war, which was ultimately won by infantry action. Supported by naval and air power of course, but the Falklands remain under British control to this day. Obviously Vietnam had nothing to do with profit in any sense whatsoever, that wasn't even the CB.

Of course, 'profitable' is a very, very relative term. Either way though, the 'wars' we fight in P&W look much more like the Falklands war than any other war in history that I'm aware of.

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:01 PM, Sir Scarfalot said:

Yes... I'm referring to the Falklands war, which was ultimately won by infantry action. Supported by naval and air power of course, but the Falklands remain under British control to this day. Obviously Vietnam had nothing to do with profit in any sense whatsoever, that wasn't even the CB.

Of course, 'profitable' is a very, very relative term. Either way though, the 'wars' we fight in P&W look much more like the Falklands war than any other war in history that I'm aware of.

I am like.. 99.9% Confident that the major deciding factor in the Falklands was naval. Don't get me wrong, infantry are good.. but if you took away the Brit navy you're talking an Island against the full armed forces of a neighboring continental nation with comparatively infinite resources. The Brit Navy and its ability to bring supplies and other armaments into the combat theater were the deciding factor in any long term confrontation there.

So no.. soldiers alone did not hold the Falklands. I hoped you were joking or meant Vietnam which would have been a more reasonable argument due to the fact the infantry DID in fact make a mess on the ground with guerrilla warfare and that maybe you were a few years off on the dates of the war.

Were drifting off topic, my point is made though, no modern war has been won solely by infantry. Yet we have nations in P&W who rely on this strategy.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

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12 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I am like.. 99.9% Confident that the major deciding factor in the Falklands was naval. Don't get me wrong, infantry are good.. but if you took away the Brit navy you're talking an Island against the full armed forces of a neighboring continental nation with comparatively infinite resources. The Brit Navy and its ability to bring supplies and other armaments into the combat theater were the deciding factor in any long term confrontation there.

So no.. soldiers alone did not hold the Falklands. I hoped you were joking or meant Vietnam which would have been a more reasonable argument due to the fact the infantry DID in fact make a mess on the ground with guerrilla warfare and that maybe you were a few years off on the dates of the war.

Um.... if you took away the British navy without taking away the Argentinian navy, then you're just not making a coherent argument. Like, are you trying to say that it'd be easier for the Argentinian infantry to literally swim to the Falklands than for the British infantry to swim the distance? Both nations relied on using navy for the logistics of transporting soldiers to an island, yes... but neither the ships nor the aircraft nor the exocets captured or recaptured the territory. That was done primarily by the infantry fighting across the landscape. Now, yes it was a combined-arms effort, but that doesn't change that it was primarily the infantry supported by the naval and air forces that actually decided who ruled that spot.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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6 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Um.... if you took away the British navy without taking away the Argentinian navy, then you're just not making a coherent argument. Like, are you trying to say that it'd be easier for the Argentinian infantry to literally swim to the Falklands than for the British infantry to swim the distance? Both nations relied on using navy for the logistics of transporting soldiers to an island, yes... but neither the ships nor the aircraft nor the exocets captured or recaptured the territory. That was done primarily by the infantry fighting across the landscape. Now, yes it was a combined-arms effort, but that doesn't change that it was primarily the infantry supported by the naval and air forces that actually decided who ruled that spot.

I never said that infantry didn't take ground.. you're basically making my argument for me.. think about it.

Pity the Merchant Marine doesn't have a role in this game either, but the level of systemic complexity is likely not desired. However, we can make it so that wars aren't solely won by infantry with some modest adjustments.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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1 minute ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I never said that infantry didn't take ground.. you're basically making my argument for me.. think about it.

I argued that the infantry were what took the ground. Since you're somehow unwilling to accept even that point without trying to claim I'm wrong as some kind of kneejerk reaction, then honestly there's no reason to bother discussing anything at all with you. I'm now blocking you on account of you being unable to engage in honest conversation.

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47 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

I argued that the infantry were what took the ground. Since you're somehow unwilling to accept even that point without trying to claim I'm wrong as some kind of kneejerk reaction, then honestly there's no reason to bother discussing anything at all with you. I'm now blocking you on account of you being unable to engage in honest conversation.

Where did I say you were wrong? I said you were making my point for me. That wouldn't make you wrong now would it?
Hardly dishonest conversation.

And what was it I said that you said in contradiction? So.. easily.. triggered.. Scarfie. I legit.. did not say.. that infantry didn't take ground. I said they did not win wars alone. That has been the only claim I made. You are making a different, yet also valid point... that is totally not in contradiction to my own yet you believe that it does stand so, when truthfully it is reinforcing my claim. Even you appended, "Supported by air force."

Infantry alone could not possibly win the Falklands.. or Vietnam.. yet routinely, in this game, they do against powers with other assets. You blocking me, will be far more a reflection on you and the weakness of your position on the issue, than on me. It will be a pity though. You are seemingly the only one who could stand for their position outside of a simple down-vote and provide rational critical review of the situation. I don't  buy into cancel culture, or closing off dialogue in a difficult discussion. I'm not that big a coward. I also have apt and sound reasoning to why I say what i do. I believe you do as well. I just can't believe you'd walk off so easily.

I didn't even perceive this discussion as heated or having tension until you react this way.

PS: No one up or down-vote me anymore. My rating is officially the meaning of life, in my favorite color, as it should be.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 5:20 PM, Maelstrom Vortex said:

destroy a ship, maybe a couple hundred

Taihō sank because her crew was unable to do proper damage control (due to the lack of skilled personnel, this was 1944 Japan after all), and she took 1600 of her crew with her as she went down.

And as a bit of trivia, since Falklands got mentioned; the British had made plans to specifically destroy the Exocets, sabotage the S. Etendards, and kill their pilots based in Rio Grande.

Yes, that's how scarce and valuable proper manpower on those fields actually is. 

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
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On 12/4/2019 at 3:37 PM, Kurnugia said:

No. The only reason why soldiers can be spamed, is due to a lack of organisation of lower city count nations. 

 

Manpower can for sure be an interesting mechanic to stop eternal war, but the soldiers are ok for the current system.

That's the truth of it.
If you control everything else and outnumber the opponent it is quite easy to defeat troops. You need to keep the troops under control or they will grow rapidly because of your failure.

Now you're fighting older nations with more cities being held down, it is what it is. Nerfing troops really just leaves missiles to fight back. 

Edited by Clarke
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On 12/7/2019 at 6:34 AM, Clarke said:

Now you're fighting older nations with more cities being held down, it is what it is. Nerfing troops really just leaves missiles to fight back. 

As it should be? I mean in my opinion if you exhaust your nation's manpower that's literally all you should have left.  The argument for ending prolonged wars is probably more sound in that troop replacement is a long term issue. You should have a base level of natural regeneration to offset casualties, but it shouldn't be something that is impossible to overwhelm, because in reality, that is how it works. Manpower is not an infinite resource, not even close... its' value is trivialized in this game.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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When you have air control you already have a great advantage against people buying soldiers because you can maintain tanks without them getting bombed and also bomb their soldiers.  If the losing side is able to overcome that with better tactics to make use of their soldiers, that's good for the game and makes it more interesting.

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59 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

As it should be? I mean in my opinion if you exhaust your nation's manpower that's literally all you should have left.  The argument for ending prolonged wars is probably more sound in that troop replacement is a long term issue. You should have a base level of natural regeneration to offset casualties, but it shouldn't be something that is impossible to overwhelm, because in reality, that is how it works. Manpower is not an infinite resource, not even close... its' value is trivialized in this game.

Clearly not the case as my nation today got overwhelmed. Yes it will be back to normal soon but if you don't want to deal with that then nations fighting should peace out. You can't just kill something and then be lazy and expect it to stay dead because you don't want to or can't commit to keeping it that way . 

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3 hours ago, Clarke said:

Clearly not the case as my nation today got overwhelmed. Yes it will be back to normal soon but if you don't want to deal with that then nations fighting should peace out. You can't just kill something and then be lazy and expect it to stay dead because you don't want to or can't commit to keeping it that way . 

I love how everyone's go-to-excuse for a bead mechanic is , "Oh, you just can't kill it so you want it to stay dead because you can't commit.".... 

Lame.

Try harder... that's not it.

The complaint.. legitimately.. is that isn't how it works in rl, and here you miraculously have an infinite supply of soldiers. if you're okay with that.. and we're okay with that as a community, fine. I just don't like the arcade-feel to warfare.

I've been playing nation sims for nigh on two decades+ now.. if fighting wars were an issue, I'd just leave.. I haven't. I love wars. I just hate badly done war mechanics. You know who had a magnificent mechanic, it just wasn't properly attended? Nationsgame. Incredible war system, customization of units, initiative considerations that weren't purely driven by what time of day you got on... BATTLES, not wars.. would last days. Don't get me wrong, PNW has its charms, it just can be better and it's not because I want an easy way to annihilate you. It's because it feels..

Cheap and dirty.

To me it dishonors the value of real infantry.. of human life.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 2:22 PM, Maelstrom Vortex said:

When was the last time you saw a modern war profitably won by soldiers alone? .. Maybe 2 centuries ago? So why is it true in this game that people get away with constant cheap troop spam that gives them a resource advantage?

In my opinion, troop spam is too simple, to easy, and to cheap with no consequence to playing nations and makes it far to easy a tactic in the wars.

Translation:

Hi, I'm a GOONS/NPO member and I attack pirates that have won against me with only troops despite my totally powerful airforce of 900 gazillion planes and a cookie cutter, NPO approved, military build. I just now figured out that the people fighting with just soldiers save themselves alot of money against my spam attacks and continue to bring in revenue raiding other people (despite the countless warnings I ignored about the futility of hitting pirates). I'm unhappy about the lack of control I have over someone's freedom to play this game how they want, so I'm going make suggestion to put a stop to it.

Edited by Deulos
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9 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

The complaint.. legitimately.. is that isn't how it works in rl, and here you miraculously have an infinite supply of soldiers. if you're okay with that.. and we're okay with that as a community, fine. I just don't like the arcade-feel to warfare.

I've been playing nation sims for nigh on two decades+ now.. if fighting wars were an issue, I'd just leave.. I haven't. I love wars. I just hate badly done war mechanics. You know who had a magnificent mechanic, it just wasn't properly attended? Nationsgame. Incredible war system, customization of units, initiative considerations that weren't purely driven by what time of day you got on... BATTLES, not wars.. would last days. Don't get me wrong, PNW has its charms, it just can be better and it's not because I want an easy way to annihilate you. It's because it feels..

Cheap and dirty.

To me it dishonors the value of real infantry.. of human life.

Okay but not much about the war mechanics is realistic. Soldiers is probably the most realistic part, more so than building ridiculous numbers of tanks, ships and airplanes. I think the same principle applies to them. That does sound like an interesting war system though.

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On 12/4/2019 at 6:22 AM, Maelstrom Vortex said:

When was the last time you saw a modern war profitably won by soldiers alone? .. Maybe 2 centuries ago? So why is it true in this game that people get away with constant cheap troop spam that gives them a resource advantage?

In my opinion, troop spam is too simple, to easy, and to cheap with no consequence to playing nations and makes it far to easy a tactic in the wars. There are a number of ways this can be remedied:

1. Increase cost of troops.
2. Make population matter by:
    A. Having war weariness affect recruitment rates/capacity as a multiplier/modifier.
    B. Calculating an actual troop availability based on city populations for an overall time period, say a week or a month, and have that depleted and re-grow at specific rates. IE: City of 100,000 people has 5000 troops killed, leaving 95,000 population of which 33,000 is recruit-able based on fighting ages. Once fighting age pool is depleted, despite barracks count, no more troops become recruit-able until the pool recovers.
3. Have cost of troops increase each time the capacity of a barracks is used, have it slowly recover over time to normal levels when not utilized.

1 and 2a are arguably the simplest means of affecting the changes because war weariness calculations can be applied directly to all barracks generically as can troop cost increases. The 2b and 3 are more complicated but arguably likely to give a more realistic war performance.

Yes, I know we are not going for a complex sim. However, I thought these would be ideas that could help improve perceived game quality in terms of realism and therefore worth mentioning. This will make this game more, "Politics and War" and less "Politics and Clone Wars".

This should apply to all troop types I reckon if we are trying to make the game more realistic. 

Would probably apply more so to planes and ships given the sheer cost and resources utilised.

Just an example for you to ponder upon. I have lost more than 15k planes in this war alone. Given I'm a small fry, we can estimate the amount of planes lost in this war to be easily in the millions mark.

During WWII, the US lost just under 80k planes for the entire war and made around 300k. Not high numbers and rightfully so given the costs of planes and the associated training requirements.

So plane production in this game is vastly inflated when it comes to a realistic approach to warfare.

Something else to consider is the F22. The F22 costs around 340 million US dollars per plane to manufacture and less than 200 were built for obvious reasons.

Ships are even more costly so the point still stands with tanks also being subject to similar issues for cost.

So given all of this, if we were to apply a population capacity limiter to troops being rebought along with population growth which I think is a great idea by the way. We should also introduce restrictions on planes, ships and tanks in the interests of realism much as you have postulated. I'm sure you agree it's quite silly for whale nations to buy in one day twice as many planes as were made for the entire F22 project and it would bring some much needed balance to combat. 

I've advocated for this in the past but the cost of planes needs to be dramatically increased along with that of ships and tanks. This will return actual strategy to this game instead of the trench warfare which pervades right now. If you lose your planes in the first round of a war, there should be long term strategic consequences for that. Not something which can be replaced in a round of beige at a trivial cost.

Edited by Charles the Tyrant
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8 hours ago, CandyShi said:

Bullshit, we've fired enough nukes to end life on Earth at least 5 times over.

 

If you were really offended by the values of human life in a video game, and not trying to make suggestions that favor your own self-interests, you shouldn't be playing a game with the name "war" in it. Go play farmville. 

Woah, calm down, this is just a text based browser game, not a video game. Jesus.

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