About Latest Beige Nation Taxes

[Majima Goro]

The new patch to fix exploitation of inactive nations for taxation is indeed needed. HOWEVER, the current form isnt the way to go about it. 

Currently, ALL beige nations are exempted from paying taxes. However, in reality, this should only affect inactive nations. This can be exploited to mass-beige and cycle-beige alliances to kill off their entire economy. Agreed it will make wars shorter but with malicious alliances hell-bent on killing of their enemies, they can effectively keep the cycle-beiging going on for months.

My suggestion is: Add another condition to the new update so that beige nations INACTIVE FOR X DAYS are exempted from taxes. We can have a discussion on what this X should be. Although generally, it should be a time limit between 14 days to 28 days.

[Viselli]

8 hours ago, AntMan said:

The new patch to fix exploitation of inactive nations for taxation is indeed needed. HOWEVER, the current form isnt the way to go about it. 

Currently, ALL beige nations are exempted from paying taxes. However, in reality, this should only affect inactive nations. This can be exploited to mass-beige and cycle-beige alliances to kill off their entire economy. Agreed it will make wars shorter but with malicious alliances hell-bent on killing of their enemies, they can effectively keep the cycle-beiging going on for months.

My suggestion is: Add another condition to the new update so that beige nations INACTIVE FOR X DAYS are exempted from taxes. We can have a discussion on what this X should be. Although generally, it should be a time limit between 14 days to 28 days.

Our current form of war is all about not beiging someone so they can constantly be hit. A group of raiders can frustrate a war as they beige one side giving them protection and ruining the plans of the other alliance. Now, beiging is going to be a goal for wars.

[Clarke]

Beige exempts you from paying taxes? Where is my taxes going?

Edited November 23, 2019 by Clarke

[Majima Goro]

1 hour ago, Viselli said:

Our current form of war is all about not beiging someone so they can constantly be hit. A group of raiders can frustrate a war as they beige one side giving them protection and ruining the plans of the other alliance. Now, beiging is going to be a goal for wars.

Cycle beiging is a thing. You basically let one of your people beige and two people sit on him. 

[Viselli]

1 hour ago, AntMan said:

Cycle beiging is a thing. You basically let one of your people beige and two people sit on him. 

IF a raider doesn't interrupt the cycle by declaring at the same time the group was supposed to

[Zim]

12 hours ago, AntMan said:

The new patch to fix exploitation of inactive nations for taxation is indeed needed. HOWEVER, the current form isnt the way to go about it. 

Currently, ALL beige nations are exempted from paying taxes. However, in reality, this should only affect inactive nations. This can be exploited to mass-beige and cycle-beige alliances to kill off their entire economy. Agreed it will make wars shorter but with malicious alliances hell-bent on killing of their enemies, they can effectively keep the cycle-beiging going on for months.

My suggestion is: Add another condition to the new update so that beige nations INACTIVE FOR X DAYS are exempted from taxes. We can have a discussion on what this X should be. Although generally, it should be a time limit between 14 days to 28 days.

Honestly i can only see this as a direct upgrade. Beige taxing of inactive, have had a huge negative inpact on the income of us raiders.  
It not like the money disapear out into the blue, if it is not being taxed. It will stay with your alliance members, and if they active they would still be able to use it as they see fit. 
And would be a benefit for their rebuilding and rearming effort. If you decide not to go around demanding your members to hand it over manuelly. 
This would just encourage a more active playstyle, and on a leadership level would mean there is more benefit in fighting aggressively, instead of rolling over. It will reward more independent thinking players, and is much needed nerf for alliance run on a plan economy, making other alliance playstyles more viable. 

Plus in a case of a mass-beige most alliance should be able to adjust between expenses and income without any problems. 
Again the money dosen't disappear. 
When it come to cycle-beige, or rather attempts as i should say. As against competent players that is atleast somewhat active, it dosen't work. 
I say that a person been dealing with GOONS attempt at doing it to me for the past 3 weeks. So long you able to fight back, you get to a point where they forced to mass beige you. Specially if you start declaring on their weaker members that they so carelessly pushed you in the range of. 
Even for worse and less active players there come a point where you score is so low, that the new set trying to cycle-beige, you can beat down with a double buy. 
An a cycle-beige, does normally include cycle-blockade aswell, and correct me if i am wrong here, but dosen't a blockade also remove ones ability to pay alliance taxes? I have no experience in dealing in function of alliance taxes, so i might be wrong here. But i would find it weird that the tax man is able to get into your country, but the food to keep your popultion form starving can not.

But i seriusly doubt that a cycle-beige would be able to destroy an alliance economy, that have made their precautions. Afterall Arrgh is able to function without alliance taxes and we still maintain a net income. Just lower your alliance expenses accordingly, to your income. Your members should still be generating money. 
My main worry for cycle-beige, is the inpact it have psychological on our members, rather then the effect on their economy.

[Raphael]

How does this kill economy again?

The nation just stores the would-be taxes. If they’re active and still want to pay then they can just deposit the difference.

It doesn’t turn off the nation’s output.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

24 minutes ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

How does this kill economy again?

The nation just stores the would-be taxes. If they’re active and still want to pay then they can just deposit the difference.

It doesn’t turn off the nation’s output.

No, it just regresses to a Hybrid-CN style for the reason of "well some people are using blown out old whales or blown out noob nation's to farm a little iron and Bauxite" and I really just don't care and neither does almost anybody else except Alex about that. 

 

[Majima Goro]

 

7 hours ago, Zim said:

Honestly i can only see this as a direct upgrade. Beige taxing of inactive, have had a huge negative inpact on the income of us raiders.  
It not like the money disapear out into the blue, if it is not being taxed. It will stay with your alliance members, and if they active they would still be able to use it as they see fit. 
And would be a benefit for their rebuilding and rearming effort. If you decide not to go around demanding your members to hand it over manuelly. 
This would just encourage a more active playstyle, and on a leadership level would mean there is more benefit in fighting aggressively, instead of rolling over. It will reward more independent thinking players, and is much needed nerf for alliance run on a plan economy, making other alliance playstyles more viable. 

Plus in a case of a mass-beige most alliance should be able to adjust between expenses and income without any problems. 
Again the money dosen't disappear. 
When it come to cycle-beige, or rather attempts as i should say. As against competent players that is atleast somewhat active, it dosen't work. 
I say that a person been dealing with GOONS attempt at doing it to me for the past 3 weeks. So long you able to fight back, you get to a point where they forced to mass beige you. Specially if you start declaring on their weaker members that they so carelessly pushed you in the range of. 
Even for worse and less active players there come a point where you score is so low, that the new set trying to cycle-beige, you can beat down with a double buy. 
An a cycle-beige, does normally include cycle-blockade aswell, and correct me if i am wrong here, but dosen't a blockade also remove ones ability to pay alliance taxes? I have no experience in dealing in function of alliance taxes, so i might be wrong here. But i would find it weird that the tax man is able to get into your country, but the food to keep your popultion form starving can not.

But i seriusly doubt that a cycle-beige would be able to destroy an alliance economy, that have made their precautions. Afterall Arrgh is able to function without alliance taxes and we still maintain a net income. Just lower your alliance expenses accordingly, to your income. Your members should still be generating money. 
My main worry for cycle-beige, is the inpact it have psychological on our members, rather then the effect on their economy.

Arrgh is a special case. Unlike most alliances, Arrgh doesn't rebuild its members-the members rebuild themselves. However, in an alliance, rebuild is provided by the alliance.

The alliance also gives resources and money to the person to fight. All these resources come from your taxes. In most alliances, during wartime, taxes are increased so that the funds for such large scale aids can be generated. The current update makes it impossible for beiged nations to get taxed-it doesnt discriminate between inactive beige nations and active beige nations. This can affect this cycle for aid.

In case the enemy decides to cycle beige, the entire alliance will remain beiged for months on end, spending money while gaining none. This will mean post-war, the alliance will need to restart from scratch to regenerate funds for the rebuild. 

While one can argue this will lead to shorter wars, in wars like the current one where the opposition has a way larger number of people, one of side will be making way less than the other. 

Another point raised is that members will deposit taxes on their own in beige. How this has two problems. First, the member will not give it- it's like asking a pirate to hand over their loot, why will they. Secondly, they cant deposit them if blockaded- yes, you can be taxed while blockaded. 

If the enemy is smart enough, they can literally keep you blockaded and beiged to hurt the alliance way more than they used to.

Plus, this thread isnt about saying "Dont tax the beige". We are saying "Dont tax the active beige".

7 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

How does this kill economy again?

The nation just stores the would-be taxes. If they’re active and still want to pay then they can just deposit the difference.

It doesn’t turn off the nation’s output.

I think the above answer will satisfy your question as well. Once again, your typical alliance isnt Arrgh and cannot work without taxes due to the sheer difference in fund generating ideologies. While this update will be a boon for Arrgh who can loot more, this update will be a dead stop for alliances that run on an economic funding.

10 hours ago, Viselli said:

IF a raider doesn't interrupt the cycle by declaring at the same time the group was supposed to

You are working on the assumption that there will be a raider who breaks that beige cycle. Moreover, even if a nation can get 6 or 7 days of beige, they wont be taxed. Please remember that being in beige means you cannot attack or be attacked. This update is literally forcing your members to leave beige. Moreover, your theoritical will be raider seems like a slot-filler hired to beige someone to allow them recovery time.

[Guest Frawley]

The change was a poor fix to a non existent problem.

[Zim]

9 hours ago, AntMan said:

Snip

But your alliance member dosen't need help rebuilding or atleast they will need less help rebuilding. You have the information over what all your members have currently in their warchest, or atleast the majority(thinking of the few that turned it of)
So it shouldn't be hard to adjust for the different. It not like rebuilding is particularly expensive in wartime. So long your members aren't idiots that would rebuild past a 1000 infra.
And if a beiged nation is active, they can still send stuff to the alliance without issue, which you again can regulate, as you can see the ressource your members have in their nation. 
If they refuse to hand it over, then cut of aid. It gennerally a sign your members aren't okay with the level you normally tax them at. 

And it not like it would hurt you wareffort to switch to more Arrgh based model in wartime. We still the alliance with the highest netdamage of all times, with the best individually fighters. We can supstain the wareffort indefinitely, if needed be. 
Warfare should be able to produce an income on it own. So long your members is actually using all the warslots they have. And dosen't wait around for the enemy to jump them. 
See this as a test of adaptability.

A lack of adaptability...is a lack of survivability. Survival is not based on who is the strongest or the smartest. It comes down to who can adapt.

Ps. it is really stupid that you can tax people that is being blockaded. 

 

1 hour ago, Frawley said:

The change was a poor fix to a non existent problem.

Oh please NPO is one of the biggest reason why this needed to be implemented, your alliance normally tax inactive nation when they get beiged, at a 100%.
And it not like you can't take the hit economically, having control over the two biggest tax-farms in the game, have given you enough income to fund the war effort of other alliances. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

@Zim Wew boy lad is it showing you're an Arrghie. He's talking about post war rebuild. Which happens for other alliances who then rebuild past 1000 infra.

But also yes, the money to even do that comes from your taxes as well. This is how normal alliances function.

 

And you'll also notice as I said, especially if you can see the VIP channel on PW discord, that quite literally, almost no one but Alex saw this as a problem, and the other people who did don't seem to understand basic math and logistics of it any better than Alex did.

[Zim]

1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

-snip

Why in the world he talk about post war? alliance expenses falls drastics when there no longer is a need to buy over priced war chest resources, or need to keep members in a fighting shape(even thought i have seen many alliances giving up on both). 
Specially for does alliance that pulled out of the war early, should even be able to play on market to a higher degree then us fighting it. 
While anyone with an idea on bacis level of economic would be able to set up rebuilding on an exponential model. Given more then enough time to rebuild an alliance economic potentiale, long before the next war breaks out. 
The money dosen't disapear it stay in their nation, where if they active they can deposit on their own. It only punish does alliance relying on people that only log in ones a week, or directly inactive. Hardly much wealth get pulled out of does anyhow, at this point where we have active people at 0.00 infra levels. 
Having members own their own bank account quite frankly help massivily in getting people to deposit stuff on their own. 
As it is their own ressource they burning if they not doing it. 

And of course alot people don't see this as a problem, because fixing it hurt them more, or atleast forces them to do more work. It return beige to be a punishment as it was interned, instead of goal for alliance to reach.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Zim

[Majima Goro]

3 hours ago, Zim said:

But your alliance member dosen't need help rebuilding or atleast they will need less help rebuilding. You have the information over what all your members have currently in their warchest, or atleast the majority(thinking of the few that turned it of)
So it shouldn't be hard to adjust for the different. It not like rebuilding is particularly expensive in wartime. So long your members aren't idiots that would rebuild past a 1000 infra.
And if a beiged nation is active, they can still send stuff to the alliance without issue, which you again can regulate, as you can see the ressource your members have in their nation. 
If they refuse to hand it over, then cut of aid. It gennerally a sign your members aren't okay with the level you normally tax them at. 

And it not like it would hurt you wareffort to switch to more Arrgh based model in wartime. We still the alliance with the highest netdamage of all times, with the best individually fighters. We can supstain the wareffort indefinitely, if needed be. 
Warfare should be able to produce an income on it own. So long your members is actually using all the warslots they have. And dosen't wait around for the enemy to jump them. 
See this as a test of adaptability.

A lack of adaptability...is a lack of survivability. Survival is not based on who is the strongest or the smartest. It comes down to who can adapt.

Ps. it is really stupid that you can tax people that is being blockaded. 

Again, not every alliance is Arrgh.

1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

@Zim Wew boy lad is it showing you're an Arrghie. He's talking about post war rebuild. Which happens for other alliances who then rebuild past 1000 infra.

But also yes, the money to even do that comes from your taxes as well. This is how normal alliances function.

 

And you'll also notice as I said, especially if you can see the VIP channel on PW discord, that quite literally, almost no one but Alex saw this as a problem, and the other people who did don't seem to understand basic math and logistics of it any better than Alex did.

I'm muted or I would give Alex a reason to roll back this update. 

Plot twist: I'm muted so I cant protest. #ModAbuse.#EatTheMods

[Alex]

It seems to me that this does fix the issue wherein certain alliances were systematically raiding and farming their inactive players by beiging them to tax them, and also it seems that there's more propensity to beige players in wars (i.e. win the war) which is how it should be.

The only negative consequence I'm really seeing here is it's less convenient for alliance leaders to redistribute money and resources. While I understand that that's creating a lot of outcry, that's not really a huge concern for me. As stated, you can have beige nations deposit their money/rss into the alliance bank. If they're blockaded, they probably shouldn't be able to pay alliance taxes anyway (another hotfix?)

[Edward I]

18 minutes ago, Alex said:

It seems to me that this does fix the issue wherein certain alliances were systematically raiding and farming their inactive players by beiging them to tax them, and also it seems that there's more propensity to beige players in wars (i.e. win the war) which is how it should be.

The only negative consequence I'm really seeing here is it's less convenient for alliance leaders to redistribute money and resources. While I understand that that's creating a lot of outcry, that's not really a huge concern for me. As stated, you can have beige nations deposit their money/rss into the alliance bank. If they're blockaded, they probably shouldn't be able to pay alliance taxes anyway (another hotfix?)

Beige isn't the same as being inactive, and it's also not the same as being blockaded.

If you want to change the way nations are taxed with respect to their activity, then use the system you've already created to track activity - the colored diamonds - to do so.

If you want to change how blockades affect the way nations are taxed, then use the system you've already created - the "blockaded" variable, which already affects trades and bank transfers - to do so.

Please don't say you want to change one thing (inactive nations being taxed), then ignore better, cleaner suggestions than your own (using the colored diamond system rather than nation color) to implement it, and then justify your decision ex post facto by saying you wanted to change something else (the incentivizes surrounding beiging nations) which wasn't even alluded to in your discussions with players about this.

[Alex]

2 minutes ago, Edward I said:

Beige isn't the same as being inactive, and it's also not the same as being blockaded.

If you want to change the way nations are taxed with respect to their activity, then use the system you've already created to track activity - the colored diamonds - to do so.

If you want to change how blockades affect the way nations are taxed, then use the system you've already created - the "blockaded" variable, which already affects trades and bank transfers - to do so.

Please don't say you want to change one thing (inactive nations being taxed), then ignore better, cleaner suggestions than your own (using the colored diamond system rather than nation color) to implement it, and then justify your decision ex post facto by saying you wanted to change something else (the incentivizes surrounding beiging nations) which wasn't even alluded to in your discussions with players about this.

I removed taxation on beige nations for two reasons: one, because alliances were systematically abusing the fact that beige nations get taxed (but gray nations do not) to raid applicants, beige them, and then move them to members to be taxed. That was an abuse of the mechanic and was corrected by this change. The other reason I made the change was the thinking that if you're beiged, you're trying to rebuild. Having your alliance take all your money and resources away doesn't help you do that. The beige bonus ($50K/turn, $600K/day) could go a long way to helping a nation actually recover from the war they lost which is the point of the Beige Color Trade Bloc bonus (not to give the alliance a free $600K/member/day.)

The fact that this also makes winning wars more appealing and better aligns incentives was an unintended side-effect, but a positive one.

All of these complains I'm hearing about this change aren't "this is bad for the game" it's "this is bad for me." I'm not particularly sympathetic to the latter argument.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

I removed taxation on beige nations for two reasons: one, because alliances were systematically abusing the fact that beige nations get taxed (but gray nations do not) to raid applicants, beige them, and then move them to members to be taxed. That was an abuse of the mechanic and was corrected by this change. The other reason I made the change was the thinking that if you're beiged, you're trying to rebuild. Having your alliance take all your money and resources away doesn't help you do that. The beige bonus ($50K/turn, $600K/day) could go a long way to helping a nation actually recover from the war they lost which is the point of the Beige Color Trade Bloc bonus (not to give the alliance a free $600K/member/day.)

The fact that this also makes winning wars more appealing and better aligns incentives was an unintended side-effect, but a positive one.

All of these complains I'm hearing about this change aren't "this is bad for the game" it's "this is bad for me." I'm not particularly sympathetic to the latter argument.

Actually you made the problem with wars like this one worse. It's not better such that beige holding won't be done, it just means there will be a heavier focus on beige cycling.

ie; 3 nation's hit you, nation 1 beiges you ASAP, 2 and 3 sit. Nation 2 beiges you, after your beige and subsequent open slot from nation ends and is filled. Nation 3s war expires and his slot is taken to repeat the process.

All you've actually done is make beige cycling even more crippling than it already was. What a positive change. /s

 

Edit: before some dumb crap is said "maybe wars will end sooner" I Point you again to the current war. It won't end sooner, and beige cycling only happens after an entire side is wiped out. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Akuryo

[Guest Epi]

1

Edited February 18, 2021 by Epi

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

2 hours ago, Epi said:

Daily reminder, Ketog is down from 450 people to 75. ?

KETOG was 250 at the start of Surfs Up. Chaos was 450, before Nova died.

[Raphael]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:06 PM, Akuryo said:

No, it just regresses to a Hybrid-CN style for the reason of "well some people are using blown out old whales or blown out noob nation's to farm a little iron and Bauxite" and I really just don't care and neither does almost anybody else except Alex about that. 

 

This is to prevent tax farms. No one cares if you get a "little iron and bauxite". This is a step to help prevent swathes of nations being created and farmed in perpetuity generating free income for nations that actually play.

On 11/24/2019 at 1:26 AM, AntMan said:

 

Arrgh is a special case. Unlike most alliances, Arrgh doesn't rebuild its members-the members rebuild themselves. However, in an alliance, rebuild is provided by the alliance.

The alliance also gives resources and money to the person to fight. All these resources come from your taxes. In most alliances, during wartime, taxes are increased so that the funds for such large scale aids can be generated. The current update makes it impossible for beiged nations to get taxed-it doesnt discriminate between inactive beige nations and active beige nations. This can affect this cycle for aid.

In case the enemy decides to cycle beige, the entire alliance will remain beiged for months on end, spending money while gaining none. This will mean post-war, the alliance will need to restart from scratch to regenerate funds for the rebuild. 

While one can argue this will lead to shorter wars, in wars like the current one where the opposition has a way larger number of people, one of side will be making way less than the other. 

Another point raised is that members will deposit taxes on their own in beige. How this has two problems. First, the member will not give it- it's like asking a pirate to hand over their loot, why will they. Secondly, they cant deposit them if blockaded- yes, you can be taxed while blockaded. 

If the enemy is smart enough, they can literally keep you blockaded and beiged to hurt the alliance way more than they used to.

Plus, this thread isnt about saying "Dont tax the beige". We are saying "Dont tax the active beige".

I think the above answer will satisfy your question as well. Once again, your typical alliance isnt Arrgh and cannot work without taxes due to the sheer difference in fund generating ideologies. While this update will be a boon for Arrgh who can loot more, this update will be a dead stop for alliances that run on an economic funding.

You are working on the assumption that there will be a raider who breaks that beige cycle. Moreover, even if a nation can get 6 or 7 days of beige, they wont be taxed. Please remember that being in beige means you cannot attack or be attacked. This update is literally forcing your members to leave beige. Moreover, your theoritical will be raider seems like a slot-filler hired to beige someone to allow them recovery time.

I hear what you're saying but you're still painting a picture of inconvenience rather than anything else. This is a solid step in moving towards balancing mechanical dysfunction with the beige system.

Disrupting the tax system only disrupts the alliances that are automated with semi-legal scripting anyway. The rest can probably still coordinate and figure out how to operate without it.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Bartholomew Roberts

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

9 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

This is to prevent tax farms. No one cares if you get a "little iron and bauxite". This is a step to help prevent swathes of nations being created and farmed in perpetuity generating free income for nations that actually play.

I hear what you're saying but you're still painting a picture of inconvenience rather than anything else. This is a solid step in moving towards balancing mechanical dysfunction with the beige system.

Disrupting the tax system only disrupts the alliances that are automated with semi-legal scripting anyway. The rest can probably still coordinate and figure out how to operate without it.

That's nice and all but as demonstrated by this thread (and further the VIP channel of PW server), pretty much no one cares. Alex cares, a couple people here care, nobody else does. Because as spooky as it is that 50 inactives could make 30m/day out of taxes, no one cares. The effort you put in to make a quarter what my micro does per day, not only is excessive for the return, but alos literally impossible for every alliance in the game but 1.

Shocker, don't care about that either. If they don't get the funding from tax farming they'll literally get it from NPO. Do you have any idea ho much money 1000 c5s with commerce would make? I'm more concerned about them having an easy road to generating 2b+/day while averaging city 5 than i am that they raid even HUNDREDS of inactives just to make as much a day from the color bonus as i do by just having not shit IA and retaining members.

Sure, the numbers are scary, until you realize they don't come from nothing, and the something that has to happen is a logistical pain in the ass ultimately not worth the time of anyone not being absurd about pinching pennies. 

 

So congratulations, you've made beige cycling ridiculously strong, all so that you can force the weebs to... give NPO the greatest ROI anyone has ever seen...? Instead of... raid themselves, using far more effort to achieve far less...? Good job, bravo to you. While i think some people lie about really being pragmatic in this game, i'm much closer to the real thing, and i'm just giving the look i'd usually give to a child thinking their particularly smart or special. Cause at the end of the day, you're just like them, thinking something bigs happened, when really it's nothing at all.

Welp, i've hit my quota for snark in forum posts, so i'll be off now.

[Raphael]

2 hours ago, Akuryo said:

That's nice and all but as demonstrated by this thread (and further the VIP channel of PW server), pretty much no one cares. Alex cares, a couple people here care, nobody else does. Because as spooky as it is that 50 inactives could make 30m/day out of taxes, no one cares. The effort you put in to make a quarter what my micro does per day, not only is excessive for the return, but alos literally impossible for every alliance in the game but 1.

Shocker, don't care about that either. If they don't get the funding from tax farming they'll literally get it from NPO. Do you have any idea ho much money 1000 c5s with commerce would make? I'm more concerned about them having an easy road to generating 2b+/day while averaging city 5 than i am that they raid even HUNDREDS of inactives just to make as much a day from the color bonus as i do by just having not shit IA and retaining members.

Sure, the numbers are scary, until you realize they don't come from nothing, and the something that has to happen is a logistical pain in the ass ultimately not worth the time of anyone not being absurd about pinching pennies. 

 

So congratulations, you've made beige cycling ridiculously strong, all so that you can force the weebs to... give NPO the greatest ROI anyone has ever seen...? Instead of... raid themselves, using far more effort to achieve far less...? Good job, bravo to you. While i think some people lie about really being pragmatic in this game, i'm much closer to the real thing, and i'm just giving the look i'd usually give to a child thinking their particularly smart or special. Cause at the end of the day, you're just like them, thinking something bigs happened, when really it's nothing at all.

Welp, i've hit my quota for snark in forum posts, so i'll be off now.

You're very angry about something but I can't really tell what it is.

[Majima Goro]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:26 AM, Alex said:

All of these complains I'm hearing about this change aren't "this is bad for the game" it's "this is bad for me." I'm not particularly sympathetic to the latter argument.

A game is made by its players. So if multiple players says "this is bad for me", it translates to "this is bad for the game". However, I will not tread into that territory right now. 

On 11/25/2019 at 4:26 AM, Alex said:

The fact that this also makes winning wars more appealing and better aligns incentives was an unintended side-effect, but a positive one.

This sure makes winning wars more appealing. But it also makes losing them equally unappealing from an alliance perspective. You are literally forcing people to get off beige so that someone can roll them again. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

8 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

You're very angry about something but I can't really tell what it is.

Blind idiocy and symbolic action that does nothing are against my religion and highly offensive to me. The two typically go hand in hand, the latter going to the former.