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Prefonteen

An Announcement from Coalition A Regarding Peace Talks

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2 hours ago, MCMaster-095 said:

The thing is that they were never talking to Partisan in the first place. If these threads close, the status quo will be restored, which means that Partisan still won’t be negotiated with. While these threads certainly aren’t helping peace, they aren’t really hurting either, since either way there would be no negotiations.

I mean he or another representative will get negotiated with when they have actual terms for his group. That's it. These term ideas had been around for 4-5 months on a maybe basis with some of them only being actualized in response to the surrender topic. You could always talk about the ones you have currently in terms of the 1st one and not accept until later.

He took on the role of janitor when it was all fun and games for him before and he has to deal with it as is rather than trying to drastically change it unilaterally. Not really our fault they caused issues. His alliance wouldn't be in this situation if they had been the least bit diplomatic with their own ally. If he wants to take it as us trying to make tS disband, then that's his prerogative.

 

Edited by Roquentin
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10 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

Correct, which given he's mentioning CoA and CoB's opinion means he's dragging things out by purposefully attempting to discuss negotiation terms in public when it's always done privately.  We're not the ones who are urgently wanted the war to end.

 

9 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

What's going in these threads is entirely counterproductive. CoB's negotiating team might start talking to him again if he closes these threads and contacts them in the negotiations server in private.

 

9 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

Well he's seriously impugned his reputation regarding private discussion so personally might now not be someone to be negotiated with. tS might have to send an alternate.

Nah. I have throughout my tenure been very consistent in carrying out my belief that logs are fair game to be used when one is directly lying about matters said in private. These logs merely clear our name from false accusations. I have also been completely open about my intention to play the cards above the table going into these negotiations. 

Nothing is new about my approach, nor is it shocking in sky way shape or form. Merely prudent. 

You do not get to gaslight about your frustrations of peace without pushback. Sorry. 

7 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

Partisan isn't a member of CoA.  This is a topic about CoA.  But I referred to him with the presumption that ts's separate negotiations would be led b him.

We are a member of CoA as per both our and CoA's definition. You refusing to recognize that and us initially being willing to compromise on negotiating seperately does not change that. 

5 hours ago, Roquentin said:

I mean he or another representative will get negotiated with when they have actual terms for his group. That's it. These term ideas had been around for 4-5 months on a maybe basis with some of them only being actualized in response to the surrender topic. You could always talk about the ones you have currently in terms of the 1st one and not accept until later.

He took on the role of janitor when it was all fun and games for him before and he has to deal with it as is rather than trying to drastically change it unilaterally. Not really our fault they caused issues. His alliance wouldn't be in this situation if they had been the least bit diplomatic with their own ally. If he wants to take it as us trying to make tS disband, then that's his prerogative.

 

Your negotiators last claimed they now have terms but refuse to negotiate with me, throwing up yet another barrier. 

 

So what is it? 

Edited by Prefonteen
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On 12/2/2019 at 2:32 AM, Reuben Cheuk said:

I must say, of all possible responses you could have made, the social darwinist one is one of the worst. I'm also surprised that this is coming from a GOONS member and someone whose national economic policies are "Extreme Left". Surely GOONS, who ideally seeks to provide a safe area for those traditionally trodden upon by society, condemns this sentiment. I, as a disabled person who would have been killed in Nazi Germany for a quirk of my DNA, find this attitude incongruent with the times. While I sympathise with your temporal predicament, which prevents you from ever writing sweet love letters to the long-dead Francis Galton, I suggest you avoid taking out your frustration on us.

Do be mindful that this dynamic you speak of, in which the strong crush the weak, is not necessarily grounded in reality. I hope you realise that while the strong may be more powerful, the weak are not going to take such indignities lying down. The weak can work together, and plan. So, for a counter-example to the predator-prey dynamic, observe that the sabre-toothed tiger, which evolved to prey on humans, is now extinct, dead by our hand.

All I want to say is that you should probably stop idolising hierarchies you would probably be at the bottom of.

Viva is disabled. They are also a former Hospital Corpsman and have shown time and time again they would be willing to die to protect anyone should the real world degrade in such a way. He's not "idolizing" a damn thing, and I'd appreciate you not -implying- such a thing about my members. This is an RP game. Or should I accuse you of thinking Imperialism is the real life way to go?

I know commonwealth members like to talk a lot of shit with nothing to back them up, but this absolutely takes the cake. Maybe don't pretend to know about someone's real life situation before speaking.

Note: Apologies for this being late. I simply only saw it now and couldn't let it stand.

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2 hours ago, Archibald said:

Viva is disabled. They are also a former Hospital Corpsman and have shown time and time again they would be willing to die to protect anyone should the real world degrade in such a way. He's not "idolizing" a damn thing, and I'd appreciate you not -implying- such a thing about my members. This is an RP game. Or should I accuse you of thinking Imperialism is the real life way to go?

I know commonwealth members like to talk a lot of shit with nothing to back them up, but this absolutely takes the cake. Maybe don't pretend to know about someone's real life situation before speaking.

Note: Apologies for this being late. I simply only saw it now and couldn't let it stand.

Please stop generalizing like that, if not all women is solid argument then not all TCW members is one too. I for one am too low IQ and too drunk to get further into this  Oppression Olympics you guys seem to be having going on just before Christmas. 

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1 minute ago, kalev60 said:

Please stop generalizing like that, if not all women is solid argument then not all TCW members is one too. I for one am too low IQ and too drunk to get further into this  Oppression Olympics you guys seem to be having going on just before Christmas. 

The first half of your post is almost incomprehensible, but if you're saying tCW isn't daft you're certainly not helping your case.

An oppression olympics had nothing to do with anything. My point was that I didn't appreciate the implication that Viva is some sort of fascist trumpeter in the real world just cause he plays one on TV.

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Almost incomprehensible he says, welp I guess too low IQ and too drunk just flew over one´s head there. Acting is lying so yeah you are right with that one I guess...

 

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16 hours ago, Azaghul said:

On the contrary, CoBs duplicity and stonewalling made going public the only productive option.

What has it produced?

9 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

We are a member of CoA as per both our and CoA's definition. You refusing to recognize that and us initially being willing to compromise on negotiating seperately does not change that.

That's definitely why they're not speaking to you regarding CoA. 

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8 hours ago, Archibald said:

Viva is disabled. They are also a former Hospital Corpsman and have shown time and time again they would be willing to die to protect anyone should the real world degrade in such a way. He's not "idolizing" a damn thing, and I'd appreciate you not -implying- such a thing about my members. This is an RP game. Or should I accuse you of thinking Imperialism is the real life way to go?

I know commonwealth members like to talk a lot of shit with nothing to back them up, but this absolutely takes the cake. Maybe don't pretend to know about someone's real life situation before speaking.

Note: Apologies for this being late. I simply only saw it now and couldn't let it stand.

My sincerest apologies for being presumptuous. I hope I did not cause too much harm with my message. I'll delete it.

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5 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

What has it produced?

An entertaining political exchange to keep us interested while Farmville is paused is something.

On top of the self-satisfaction of exposing the disorganized hypocrisy and confused belligerence of your coalition in the meantime, it's not been so bad tbqh.

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7 hours ago, ComradeMilton said:

What has it produced?

Entertainment.

What else do we have to lose at this point?  All you're doing is burning pixels in the game.  I mean...  we leave the game according to your goals, so what?  It's not a huge deal to those who actually have left, and hell, probably frees up some time for others.  The Discord communities will still exist, they'll simply move on to other games, etc.

But we might as well read through all the hypocrisy, paranoia, and lies being presented.  It's entertaining.  Especially for me, to see a certain someone who has a wild obsession over me.

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Guest Viva Miriya
13 hours ago, Reuben Cheuk said:

My sincerest apologies for being presumptuous. I hope I did not cause too much harm with my message. I'll delete it.

Thank you. I'm sorry I did anything to give you that impression. I like to talk crap in games all day.

That said, I'd die before I let them come for you, or anyone like you. Not in NYC, they can step over my dead body first. Same deal for my Jewish friends as well or anyone else, if push comes to shove stateside. I swore an oath my dude: to stand against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That part of it still matters to me.

18 hours ago, Archibald said:

The first half of your post is almost incomprehensible, but if you're saying tCW isn't daft you're certainly not helping your case.

An oppression olympics had nothing to do with anything. My point was that I didn't appreciate the implication that Viva is some sort of fascist trumpeter in the real world just cause he plays one on TV.

Also facts.

Edited by Viva Miriya

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On 12/4/2019 at 8:32 AM, Prefonteen said:

 

 

Nah. I have throughout my tenure been very consistent in carrying out my belief that logs are fair game to be used when one is directly lying about matters said in private. These logs merely clear our name from false accusations. I have also been completely open about my intention to play the cards above the table going into these negotiations. 

Nothing is new about my approach, nor is it shocking in sky way shape or form. Merely prudent. 

You do not get to gaslight about your frustrations of peace without pushback. Sorry. 

We are a member of CoA as per both our and CoA's definition. You refusing to recognize that and us initially being willing to compromise on negotiating seperately does not change that. 

Your negotiators last claimed they now have terms but refuse to negotiate with me, throwing up yet another barrier. 

 

So what is it? 

I heard it's because you aren't actually a recognized coalition member. Guess you'll need to negotiate alone.

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14 minutes ago, Viva Miriya said:

I heard it's because you aren't actually a recognized coalition member. Guess you'll need to negotiate alone.

That too was denied us :)

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6 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Especially for me, to see a certain someone who has a wild obsession over me.

YOU SAID IT WASN'T A BIG DEAL! I HAVE PROOF:

make-a-wish.png

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7 hours ago, Buorhann said:

What else do we have to lose at this point?  All you're doing is burning pixels in the game.  I mean...  we leave the game according to your goals, so what?  It's not a huge deal to those who actually have left, and hell, probably frees up some time for others.  The Discord communities will still exist, they'll simply move on to other games, etc.

Oh, I thought Partisan wanted to use this to pressure CoB into altering the parameters by which peace would be negotiated and that's clearly failed.  If you're cool with continuing the war that's okay with us too.

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9 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Entertainment.

What else do we have to lose at this point?  All you're doing is burning pixels in the game.  I mean...  we leave the game according to your goals, so what?  It's not a huge deal to those who actually have left, and hell, probably frees up some time for others.  The Discord communities will still exist, they'll simply move on to other games, etc.

But we might as well read through all the hypocrisy, paranoia, and lies being presented.  It's entertaining.  Especially for me, to see a certain someone who has a wild obsession over me.

Is that what you call sharing around to the general public raw chat logs of conversation that have OOC personally identifiable information in them, "entertainment"?  What next, you going to contact someone abusive ex-husband to try to get dirt on one of us? 

Our "goal", you twit, was never to force disband or force delete anyone out of this damn game.  Period.  In a moment of utter frustration after months of war, playing whack-a-mole over and over again with members of your coalition while you went from claiming to be winning to claiming to be winning statistically, going months without any contact, to offering surrender but only under certain conditions, then breaking off all negotiations, I said the obvious--I speculated that the only way the members of my coalition were ever going to get peace was to end you as alliances, since it was apparent that you utterly refuse to talk peace.

We set the terms for negotiations, you don't.  That's what happens when you lose a war and no third party offers mediation.  The really stupid part was that you don't have to be an e-lawyer to know that no peace treaty is done until it is signed.  If by the time you saw all the provisions and the agreed to terms, and you didn't like what you saw, you could have walked away.  What's the worst that happens, we keep fighting?  We're doing that now.  You might have gotten peace had you negotiated.  Now, I could give a shit whether there is a peace of not.

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"No third party offers mediation" I know for a fact Prefontaine has. Hell, I would if anybody asked. Nobody would ever ask Fark or their sphere too but I'm sure they would as well.

 

And really, it's probably the best decision, if you actually want peace to happen. They're more likely to roll with your process if the face on the other side of the table is somebody they actually trust.

Edited by Akuryo

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14 minutes ago, George Clooney said:

Our "goal", you twit, was never to force disband or force delete anyone out of this damn game.  Period.  In a moment of utter frustration after months of war, playing whack-a-mole over and over again with members of your coalition while you went from claiming to be winning to claiming to be winning statistically, going months without any contact, to offering surrender but only under certain conditions, then breaking off all negotiations, I said the obvious--I speculated that the only way the members of my coalition were ever going to get peace was to end you as alliances, since it was apparent that you utterly refuse to talk peace.

You do realize that there are dozens of logs that say otherwise, right?  Also, it's not just you.  It's basically every major coalition leader besides Sphinx.  NPO, BK, GoG, UPN, Acadia, Polaris.  So stop gaslighting and start acting in good faith.

Before you comment on the OOC issue, I direct you to my previous comment.

Edited by Cooper_
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35 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

You do realize that there are dozens of logs that say otherwise, right?  Also, it's not just you.  It's basically every major coalition leader besides Sphinx.  NPO, BK, GoG, UPN, Acadia, Polaris.  So stop gaslighting and start acting in good faith.

Before you comment on the OOC issue, I direct you to my previous comment.

U do realise that in any peace talk there seems to be rumors of forced disbandment.  One bad thing about logs most of the time is taken out of context.  Reading through this thread who the eggs wants to talk peace.  There is so much buldedash running through it I think everyone has forgot what the reality is that there r suppose to be peace talks going on.  Personally I think each coalition should pick just one representative each to limit the people in the room amd hammer crap out for at least 23 to 48 hours and at the end if no peace in site the  we continue fighting. Less interruptions.. less public crying ... amd if there is leaks then there is limited access so might just not happen and just maybe something will be accomplished.  

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1 minute ago, brucemna said:

U do realise that in any peace talk there seems to be rumors of forced disbandment.  One bad thing about logs most of the time is taken out of context.  Reading through this thread who the eggs wants to talk peace.  There is so much buldedash running through it I think everyone has forgot what the reality is that there r suppose to be peace talks going on.  Personally I think each coalition should pick just one representative each to limit the people in the room amd hammer crap out for at least 23 to 48 hours and at the end if no peace in site the  we continue fighting. Less interruptions.. less public crying ... amd if there is leaks then there is limited access so might just not happen and just maybe something will be accomplished.  

See the thing is with these logs is that we have the context, all of the context actually.  And in reading them, the main thing that's clear is that your coalition doesn't want peace.  I think I've responded to you previously respecting your personal desire to find a solution, but you can't peace out to an enemy that is purposely trying to extend the war to do more damage (and finding every method to avoid peacing out to do so).  There's a reason when your side has dropped a lot of its rhetoric on that front because its simply indefensible.  

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3 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

See the thing is with these logs is that we have the context, all of the context actually.  And in reading them, the main thing that's clear is that your coalition doesn't want peace.  I think I've responded to you previously respecting your personal desire to find a solution, but you can't peace out to an enemy that is purposely trying to extend the war to do more damage (and finding every method to avoid peacing out to do so).  There's a reason when your side has dropped a lot of its rhetoric on that front because its simply indefensible.  

This is what I am talking about .. instead of shutting up u still want to argue and agian it will go on and on ... all this thread is about is semantics .. hell I can argue or debate as well but geeesh semantics  do not solve problems they create them.  

Edited by brucemna

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This?is?why?you?don't?leak?negotiation?logs?
sorry?my?space?key?is?broken?one?sec?

right - it just weakens everyone's bargaining position as the two sides of the negotiation squabble endlessly and undermine progress towards settling peace agreements.

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1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

"No third party offers mediation" I know for a fact Prefontaine has. Hell, I would if anybody asked. Nobody would ever ask Fark or their sphere too but I'm sure they would as well.

 

And really, it's probably the best decision, if you actually want peace to happen. They're more likely to roll with your process if the face on the other side of the table is somebody they actually trust.

For the record, I have given prefontaines offer a positive reception. We are willing to work with mediators if need be.

30 minutes ago, brucemna said:

This is what I am talking about .. instead of shutting up u still want to argue and agian it will go on and on ... all this thread is about is semantics .. hell I can argue or debate as well but geeesh semantics  do not solve problems they create them.  

No. The problem is that certain people refuse to acknowledge that one side simply hasn't come to the table *in good faith*. I know t$ for a fact still has not received any serious response.

5 minutes ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

This?is?why?you?don't?leak?negotiation?logs?
sorry?my?space?key?is?broken?one?sec?

right - it just weakens everyone's bargaining position as the two sides of the negotiation squabble endlessly and undermine progress towards settling peace agreements.

Our bargaining position was non-existent as we were not allowed at the table. There was nothing to be undermined besides the absolutely bs narrative which was being put out by certain leaders on coalition B's side. As the logs have proven.

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1 hour ago, George Clooney said:

In a moment of utter frustration after months of war, playing whack-a-mole over and over again with members of your coalition while you went from claiming to be winning to claiming to be winning statistically, going months without any contact, to offering surrender but only under certain conditions, then breaking off all negotiations, I said the obvious--I speculated that the only way the members of my coalition were ever going to get peace was to end you as alliances, since it was apparent that you utterly refuse to talk peace.

Aside from this being one of the more productive posts of your (I do mean that as a compliment), the bolded is something I do think we can understand. We've been made to eat the words of a select 2 coalition members for months because they spoke out in a moment of utter frustration. Hell, we're all frustrated, but until y'all understand our frustration as well then we aren't getting anywhere that will help this mess be resolved. The issue to me is less that we end the war, but that we end this god awful dynamic we are all riding on like lunatics.

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2 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

For the record, I have given prefontaines offer a positive reception. We are willing to work with mediators if need be.

No. The problem is that certain people refuse to acknowledge that one side simply hasn't come to the table *in good faith*. I know t$ for a fact still has not received any serious response.

Our bargaining position was non-existent as we were not allowed at the table. There was nothing to be undermined besides the absolutely bs narrative which was being put out by certain leaders on coalition B's side. As the logs have proven.

Where is faith when people are posting here things such as logs and everything else.  Agian this are the se semantics from page one amd so forth. Agian putting the blame somewhere by someone. Why u may be shut out is because ur trying and others are trying to bargain here. If anything I  supprosed no one has turned this to say u must be weak amd desperate to be here in a open forum. Dont get me wrong if the rest of ur side is not standing by u .. hell that is a great trait but there comes a moment to maybe say fine accept the process the other side says. I think amd this is just a opinion.. if the rest of ur coalition does do there part a.d follow the process I would in their case make the final agreement contingent on a peace deal with u.  Ia saying this amd I am sure someone will tell me that I  wrong but u took a stance too quick without going through the process right from the get go.  I think once ur other members of ur coalition had a conditional agreement u would of been next.  I can say the dog jumped over the fence but 10 people will tell me a different color of the dog or fence or types. Hence the perception and reading of the leaked logs really mean nothing. 

 

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