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Can I get a briefing plez


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- Everyone forms the "wonderful" mini-spheres 

- TGH and Friends hit TKR & Co to lower score and size

- Sphinx logs are leaked, and gave them great timing to have a excuse to hit BK and TC

- Rose jumps on and also hits BK / TC

- BKs & TC allies join the war (the ones who were not hit)

- T$ hits some whales on TGH sphere and gets crushed while additionally announcing they will not expand at all if not countered by others

- NPO receives logs proving their concern about being the next target and enters the war

- T$ rage quits the war over NPO expanding

- Multiple alliances from each side surrender (most notable is BK / TC however they do have the most alliances involved so makes sense)  

- Multiple threads turn into shit fests and reach 30+ pages

- OWR + Carthage sign T$ to replace NPO 

- TC / BK hits T$ to bring them down now as they continue to show hostility

- T$ / TKR / TGH spheres announce they will accept surrender as one of the peace terms, handing T$ their first loss to date assuming a peace agreement can be reached 

Edited by George (James T Kirk)
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In all fairness, tS didn't do much against GOB/Guardian so "helping" would be a huge overstatement.

They were by far a net negative on the entire front and war in general.  Plus they successfully fricked over of the people who joined their front via treaty (CoA/Al) all so they could frick over NPO.

Edited by The Point Guard
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Pre-Knightfall / Knightfall (2017-2019)

 

-The global crypto-hegemony gets fed up of beating up on IQ all the time, and decides that a new political direction is needed.

-BK attacks Rosesphere, roughly losing the war, but getting a NAP of 6 months signed.

-TKR begins attacking the former members of the crypto-hegemony, and Syndisphere believes it's next.

-TKR is believed to be attempting an upper tier consolidation.

-TKR and NPO begin to make up and improve relations.

-TKR gets preempted by Syndisphere, and to their surprise, despite warming relations with the IQ bloc, IQ attacks TKR.

-IQ's plane strat causes damage to be disproportionately taken by Syndisphere, at least early on in the war, as IQ planestratting prevents Radiosphere from hitting IQ. IQ counters that Syndisphere's attack strategy is not suited for updeclare work, and as Syndisphere changes to planestratting, damages reduce.

-Talks begin about hitting IQ next war.

-After what was then the longest war in PnW history, Radiosphere surrenders.

 

Post-Knightfall (February 2019-May 2019)

 

-Radiosphere disbands, with Guardian and GoG going to KTsphere, forming KETOG, and TCW somehow becoming a BK affiliate.

-Chaos forms, and IQ sees it as an attempt to hit them.

-Prefontaine calls out Roquentin for apparently violating pre-war agreements that IQ would break up and that NPO would abandon BK for Syndicate.

-NPO moves into Syndisphere instead, or what's left of it.

 

Surf's Up (Late May 2019 - Mid June 2019)

 

-Nova Riata launches its grudge match vs Pantheon, and against a husk of an alliance, it quickly defeats Pantheon, absorbing both its allies (The Federation) and many of its members.

-A day of high-tensions ensues as four major blocs go to high militarization (what was then T$-NPO might be excluded).

-This ends with KETOG hitting Chaos, to many people's surprise.

-Work by Akuryo, Sphinx, and Dio (currently Rose-sphere, TCW leader, and NPO FA) discovers that Nova Riata has been manipulating the markets for at least a month with a timing-attack exploit generating around 217 billion, at then-current prices, of resources. This becomes a major scandal and eventually BK uses this as an excuse to hit roll Nova Riata, ending in NR's disbandment.

-While Chaos, to that point, was doing a good job holding KETOG, with the line of control being roughly 3,000 score, after NR falls, Chaos begins to weaken as resistance becomes less coordinated and effective.

-A leak implicating Sphinx in an attempt for T$-NPO and BKsphere to hit KT-sphere and Chaos respectively is disclosed.

-The Surf's Up war between KETOG and Chaos falters out, and within a week KETOG and Chaos launch a preempt on BKsphere, citing the leak as a CB.

 

Dial-Up War (Mid June 2019-Present Day)

 

BKsphere phase (June 16-Late June)

-BKsphere is out-tiered by the now KERCHTOG (including Arrgh and Rose) coalition and quickly crumbles. BK itself is quickly wiped out by an initial probing attack by KT, and counters are followed up on by Rose and Chaos.

-BKsphere begins calling in its treaty web one-by-one to honor their treaties and join the grinder. The two points of surprise are that BKsphere, despite being made up largely of new alliances of questionable military reputation, actually moves in to defend BKsphere. A second point of surprise is that the alliances move in one by one, with the full deployment of BK's allies taking over a week. In contrast to Chaos moving in its protectorates over roughly 48 hours, the delayed and staggered response compromises BKsphere's military effectiveness.

 

T$ phase (Late June)

-T$ and NPO, as part of a secret agreement with BKsphere, begins to hit KETOG, limiting the war to only KETOG. But the level of intervention is generally ineffective, and at least at the earliest stages, Syndisphere takes significant damage. NPO functions as reserve and limits its deployment.

-BKsphere's plane counts continue to drop, signifying its lack of control and that it is losing its war. KERCHTOG elements claim that Syndisphere is reining NPO back from intervention, as the Syndicate has traditionally been in opposition to BK.

-NPO's ally, Horseman, enters the war and quickly leaves as it's unused to a losing war. It joins Farksphere instead afterwards.

-NPO, without warning, engages Chaos, quickly losing its planes in a massive attritional gamble. This breaks T$'s promise that neither it, nor its affiliates, would extend the war. A shitstorm ensues on the forum as NPO and T$ leadership break out in very public fighting, with t$ accusing NPO of humiliating its ally and NPO, in the back room, accusing t$ of wishing to feed it to KERCHTOG, as NPO was part of the original target list.

-T$ and its core affiliates exit the war, indicating their disgust at NPO.

 

NPO phase (July-September)

-Surprisingly, the now Coalition B (BKNPO) grouping begins to stabilize its plane count and begin pushing back from the 2250 score tier.

-KETOG elements react in terror and assume that now that NPO has entered, they are going to lose the war. Famous, and self-humiliating, posts by Sir Scarfalot can be seen to corroborate the atmosphere, at least in KETOG.

-Frontier Records and TFP exit the war, weakening Coalition B, now that BK has begun winning.

-BK launches an attack on TFP and Frontier Records' successors. Part of the claim involves accusations of deliberate sabotage by TFP. The immediate CB involves a treasure transfer to TKR. Frontier Records disbands, with elements forming Clan Callan and Sanreizan. Clan Callan is immediately hit, as it is protected only by TKR. Sanreizan, however, is protected by the Syndicate.

-BK's sphere suffers under the pressure of prolonged war, as many BKsphere members joined BK not out of ideological loyalty, but because BKsphere seemed the most powerful on the treaty web, and the most capable of providing protection. Minor alliances ask for permission to peace out, some is given, some is not, but some leave anyways.

-KERCHTOG takes less damage, however, as Surf's Up already cleared most milquetoast assets. KERCHTOG shows remarkable member stability, but some elements take disproportionate damage.-OFA leaves the war from Coalition B's side, being a loosely-strung together alliance built up of raiding elements. Accusations, perhaps true, of bad leadership in OFA explain what's happened.

-GOONS and GPWC are founded, the former being an invasion alliance of Something Awful members, and the latter being taken in from a Manhwa forum frequented by NPO members. This is the cause of much trepidation in KERCHTOG, as KERCHTOG forms the elite structure of PnW and newcomers are not welcome. Likewise, both GOONS and GPWC are seen as threats as the former consists of experienced SA browser game players, while GPWC's sheer numbers provide a massive economic spike to the Coalition B side.

-Ming Empire and North Point surrender or white peace out of the war, having taken severe damage while in the KERCHTOG side.

-The Brotherhood of the Clouds exits the war from the Coalition B side.

-Carthago and OWR depart from the Coalition B side and sign treaties with the Syndicate.

-NPO feeds its protectorate Dark Brotherhood to raiders from The Syndicate and House Stark.

-A dispute arises between T$ and BK over what BK perceives as war dodgers, from the Arrgh alliance, residing in a T$ protectorate called Terminus Est.

 

T$ Phase II (October 2019 - Now)

 

-Treating negotiations as having failed, BK attacks Terminus Est. T$ counters for its protectorate, dragging The Syndicate and its core allies once again into the war. While Coalition B had obtained control over almost all tiers during the war, barring the very low, the T$ attack destabilizes Coalition B's control and their control tier is pushed down to 4000 or 3000 score. However, Coalition B restabilizes and begins to push up again, with about 14-18 opponents not yet submerged.

-With the deterioration of NPO and T$ ties, NPO launches attacks on T$ protectorates. Surprisingly, the T$-NPO treaty is renewed, so that NPO remains attacking its sphere partners.

-GOONS and GPWC enter the war on the Coalition B side. KERCHTOG's lower tier control becomes minimal.

-Farksphere, a third sphere that might have turned the tide for KERCHTOG, agrees to sign a non-aggression pact with Coalition B. Many players who wearied of the war or found that they were subject to unbearable fatigue had moved into Farksphere, from both Coalition B and KERCHTOG.

-Farksphere allies, believing that BKsphere had intended to hit them and wanting to fight, begin to desert Farksphere core and downgrade their treaties with Fark into oDoAP.

-North Point, having exited the war and with a 3 month NAP guaranteed, begins building a bloc made out of Coalition B deserters and other micros. This includes the Brotherhood of the Clouds.

-An attack is launched on Carthago and OWR, presumably because of their realignment to Syndisphere.

-Syndisphere and KERCHTOG accepts Coalition B's demand that surrender be a precondition of any peace talks. This was a major hold-up prolonging the war.

-The conflict rages on, with no end in sight.

 

===

 

I suppose as an addendum you could also include AK's cheating scandal, but unlike NR's, it had no military bearing on the war as the resource generation was never linked to AK senior leadership and no one made the choice to hit them as a consequence.

Edited by Inst
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4 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

tis but a fact.

I agree that you haven't directly attacked anyone that you've had a treaty with. That is fact. However, you've shown that your political agenda is more important than your relationships.

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4 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

I agree that you haven't directly attacked anyone that you've had a treaty with. That is fact. However, you've shown that your political agenda is more important than your relationships.

If anything, what they did is worse, since they deliberately and with by their own admission weeks of preparation attacked their MDP level ally's protectorate. Them trying to weasel out of responsibility and consequences for that by trying to claim that their own policy of "attack on protectorate is an attack on protector" is only valid when they say it, but when T$ says the exact same thing it somehow doesn't count, is just another crime to add to the pile, not any kind of defense. Rules for thee not for me is nowhere near an excuse.

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25 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

If anything, what they did is worse, since they deliberately and with by their own admission weeks of preparation attacked their MDP level ally's protectorate. Them trying to weasel out of responsibility and consequences for that by trying to claim that their own policy of "attack on protectorate is an attack on protector" is only valid when they say it, but when T$ says the exact same thing it somehow doesn't count, is just another crime to add to the pile, not any kind of defense. Rules for thee not for me is nowhere near an excuse.

Honestly man I'm not sure why you're defending t$. Didn't they opportunistically hit your sphere during this war as well? I guess they got clapped in the first round and used NPO entering as a chance to "morally object" and white peace out before taking more damage... but does that heal those wounds that quick?

Not to mention that half of t$ was in Penitas Oculatus when they hit Dark Brotherhood while they were allied to NPO. This seems pretty fair game for NPO to then hit t$ protectorates now, right? Eye for an eye?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

Honestly man I'm not sure why you're defending t$. Didn't they opportunistically hit your sphere during this war as well? I guess they got clapped in the first round and used NPO entering as a chance to "morally object" and white peace out before taking more damage... but does that heal those wounds that quick?

Not to mention that half of t$ was in Penitas Oculatus when they hit Dark Brotherhood while they were allied to NPO. This seems pretty fair game for NPO to then hit t$ protectorates now, right? Eye for an eye?

 

 

Lolno

Dark Brotherhood was intentionally downgraded to an ODoAP before PO attacked. Based on how those events occurred, actually, I think NPO wanted to see how DB took getting kicked in the mouth before sending the MDoAP they currently have. 

Much like how most protectors like to see their prots go through a real fight first before upgrading them. Regardless, the hit on DB was entirely sanctioned by NPO and they took some part in the planning of it. 

Inequivalent scenarios my friend.

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1 hour ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

Honestly man I'm not sure why you're defending t$. Didn't they opportunistically hit your sphere during this war as well? I guess they got clapped in the first round and used NPO entering as a chance to "morally object" and white peace out before taking more damage... but does that heal those wounds that quick?

Not to mention that half of t$ was in Penitas Oculatus when they hit Dark Brotherhood while they were allied to NPO. This seems pretty fair game for NPO to then hit t$ protectorates now, right? Eye for an eye?

I'm not saying T$ is completely above blame here, but there's a world of difference between attacking someone opportunistically versus doing that, plus lying about it, plus lying to your allies about it, and then suddenly attacking those same allies after weeks of preparation while maintaining treaty ties to that alliance during said preparations.

Hitting our coalition was a fair play; there was no promise for them not to and no treaty between T$ and anyone in the CKHETOS coalition. Raids happen, that's cool. What IQ did was lie, hard, not just to their enemies (which would be a fair play), but to their allies.

How can you possibly not see the difference?

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2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

and then suddenly attacking those same allies after weeks of preparation while maintaining treaty ties to that alliance during said preparations.

Even if most of that isn't true, this isn't the first alliance that would have done that. May I look back to the precedent set by tS-TKR during the Great Pacific War/ NPOFT, or do you just selectively forget your history? 

2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

What IQ did was lie, hard, not just to their enemies (which would be a fair play), but to their allies.

Nope. Actually told tS/HS everything, and talking to a couple of them could vouch for that. But again, even if this was the truth, not the first time a major alliance would have done this. Partisan and Infinite Citadel once actually openly lied to MDoAP allies and got them rolled, or do you literally forget TKR/tS' past? 

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10 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Lolno

Dark Brotherhood was intentionally downgraded to an ODoAP before PO attacked. Based on how those events occurred, actually, I think NPO wanted to see how DB took getting kicked in the mouth before sending the MDoAP they currently have. 

Much like how most protectors like to see their prots go through a real fight first before upgrading them. Regardless, the hit on DB was entirely sanctioned by NPO and they took some part in the planning of it. 

Inequivalent scenarios my friend.

I see your point but I just cannot reach your same conclusion. To me it would appear that even if t$ had permission from NPO, that is still engaging in the same game-y tactics and behaviors that NPO and BK have been utilizing to hit micros, protectorates, and now OWF/Carthago/TEst.

Basically holding an alliance down with a treaty and a promise of peace, then letting your ally swoop in and suckerpunch them while roasting them on the forums for all to see.

DB got the raw end of the stick, war dodger or no, and t$ facilitated, enabled, and participated in it.

10 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

I'm not saying T$ is completely above blame here, but there's a world of difference between attacking someone opportunistically versus doing that, plus lying about it, plus lying to your allies about it, and then suddenly attacking those same allies after weeks of preparation while maintaining treaty ties to that alliance during said preparations.

Hitting our coalition was a fair play; there was no promise for them not to and no treaty between T$ and anyone in the CKHETOS coalition. Raids happen, that's cool. What IQ did was lie, hard, not just to their enemies (which would be a fair play), but to their allies.

How can you possibly not see the difference?

I respect what you're saying and I think there are solid points but to butcher a famous Malcom X quote: The two choices are between a fox and wolf. One will eat you, the other will eat you but lie.

I'm not trying to defend NPO by any means, as I told Shadowthrone above: I think multiple alliances this war have shown an unsettling willingness to debase themselves to their lesser instincts and become basically tribes just striking out at any perceived weakness with no regard for the future impact. "The other tribes don't matter, we just need to feed our tribe and then find the next meal."

It's a very chaotic approach to FA and it won't be sustainable long-term for anyone.

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8 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Even if most of that isn't true, this isn't the first alliance that would have done that. May I look back to the precedent set by tS-TKR during the Great Pacific War/ NPOFT, or do you just selectively forget your history? 

Nope. Actually told tS/HS everything, and talking to a couple of them could vouch for that. But again, even if this was the truth, not the first time a major alliance would have done this. Partisan and Infinite Citadel once actually openly lied to MDoAP allies and got them rolled, or do you literally forget TKR/tS' past? 

Partisan did not lie to any ally in that war, and Partisan had no obligations to NPO concerning that war. What are you talking about?

 

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1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

Partisan did not lie to any ally in that war, and Partisan had no obligations to NPO concerning that war. What are you talking about?

Partisan enabled TKR's actions in that war, and used it well enough and helped set the precedent that Scarfy is harping about. Just pointing that out ;) 

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4 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

I see your point but I just cannot reach your same conclusion. To me it would appear that even if t$ had permission from NPO, that is still engaging in the same game-y tactics and behaviors that NPO and BK have been utilizing to hit micros, protectorates, and now OWF/Carthago/TEst.

Basically holding an alliance down with a treaty and a promise of peace, then letting your ally swoop in and suckerpunch them while roasting them on the forums for all to see.

DB got the raw end of the stick, war dodger or no, and t$ facilitated, enabled, and participated in it.

Should note tS had no decision making capabilities when PO was formed and how we acted. If anything, it was a HS venture spearheaded by myself and Revan.

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6 hours ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

I respect what you're saying and I think there are solid points but to butcher a famous Malcom X quote: The two choices are between a fox and wolf. One will eat you, the other will eat you but lie.

I'm not trying to defend NPO by any means, as I told Shadowthrone above: I think multiple alliances this war have shown an unsettling willingness to debase themselves to their lesser instincts and become basically tribes just striking out at any perceived weakness with no regard for the future impact. "The other tribes don't matter, we just need to feed our tribe and then find the next meal."

It's a very chaotic approach to FA and it won't be sustainable long-term for anyone.

See, right here? It's pretty obvious that we agree almost completely. The only thing that I feel I need to point out is that the issue isn't so much that the chaotic approach to FA is unsustainable, but that it is sustainable for as long as there's lower and more toxic places to go.

It's the end of that road that I very much don't want to see, again.

2 hours ago, Xibei National Counsel said:

Here is all you need to know: I declared myself king of P&W


That's the only true certainty there is ?

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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On 11/1/2019 at 5:27 PM, Prefonteen said:

Back in my time, we still respected and appreciated peace.

Peace has never been anything more than a period of preparation and planning for war. 

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On 11/3/2019 at 3:03 PM, Sir Scarfalot said:

See, right here? It's pretty obvious that we agree almost completely. The only thing that I feel I need to point out is that the issue isn't so much that the chaotic approach to FA is unsustainable, but that it is sustainable for as long as there's lower and more toxic places to go.

It's the end of that road that I very much don't want to see, again.


That's the only true certainty there is ?

I love agreement

On 11/3/2019 at 4:24 PM, Kadin said:

Peace has never been anything more than a period of preparation and planning for war. 

If this were CN I'd agree with you. CN had four mechanical actions that mattered and each one was time-locked behind some sort of gate. Every 24 hours you pay bills via one click, every 20 days you collect taxes via one click, every 10 days you buy or send tech via one click, every 24 hours you nuke via one click if you're at war. So obviously you had 25% more to click during war and the "loser" of the war was never really "out" until they had no money to buy nukes. Even though it was an incredibly boring system, everyone *could* matter in every war.

PnW wars are typically decided within hours. The "loser" typically loses all ability to impact a fight within a day or two by having their units zeroed out (usually during the first blitz before you even know you got hit). So you can maybe double-buy if your opponent isn't paying attention or you can wait til you get beiged or more likely wait til you're in a low enough score range that you can begin out-buying opponents with less cities. Wars in PnW are arguably just as boring as wars in CN because of how one-sided they become and how quickly they turn that way.

However, PnW has a "robust" (for a nationsim) economic system with multiple different min-maxing options and ways to make money and do things. Peace in this game is way more fun than the war system.

 

 It's actually funny that CN has a long history of neutrals and unaffiliated groups going unmolested for long periods of time while in PnW it's "trendy" to hit people that are minding their own business.

Edited by Bartholomew Roberts
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1 minute ago, Bartholomew Roberts said:

I love agreement

If this were CN I'd agree with you. CN had four mechanical actions that mattered and each one was time-locked behind some sort of gate. Every 24 hours you pay bills via one click, every 20 days you collect taxes via one click, every 10 days you buy or send tech via one click, every 24 hours you nuke via one click if you're at war. So obviously you had 25% more to click during war and the "loser" of the war was never really "out" until they had no money to buy nukes. Even though it was an incredibly boring system, everyone *could* matter in every war.

PnW wars are typically decided within hours. The "loser" typically loses all ability to impact a fight within a day or two by having their units zeroed out (usually during the first blitz before you even know you got hit). So you can maybe double-buy if your opponent isn't paying attention or you can wait til you get beiged or more likely wait til you're in a low enough score range that you can begin out-buying opponents with less cities. Wars in PnW are arguably just as boring as wars in CN because of how one-sided they become and how quickly they turn that way.

However, PnW has a "robust" (for a nationsim) economic system with multiple different min-maxing options and ways to make money and do things. Peace in this game is way more fun than the war system.

 

 It's actually funny that CN has a long history of neutrals and unaffiliated groups going unmolested for long periods of time while in PnW it's "trendy" to hit people that are minding their own business.

One of the names of the war I've suggested is "Pax Pacifica". That is to say, KERCHTOG$ and BKNPO are locked in mortal combat and will be in such for some time.


Meanwhile, Astra and Farksphere are both outside the war and are unlikely to be engaged by at least BKNPO, which is "in control", because of Farksphere's role in resource provision.

 

So for quite a bit of the game, we are in peacetime. It's KERCHTOG$ and BKNPO's decision to make it so that they're not in peacetime.

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