peace talks

[JT Jag]

3 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Calm down.  Wasn't aware BK needed your help too, but I guess so.

Of course BK needs our help, they surrendered to us

[Michaellaneous]

Just now, Buorhann said:

That's actually pretty good.

Nice tryhard.

[Lu Xun]

 

Where's my old Bush 4 more years memes? Oh well, we'll probably have 4 more years Trump memes in 2020.

[Buorhann]

1 hour ago, Blutarch Mann said:

Just surrender already, you incompetent coward

First, no.  Join the choir.

Second, coward?

[Majima Goro]

7 hours ago, Roquentin said:

With GPWC, some newbs were intimidated at first into neutrality and then your Empyrea friends rogued them on splinter AAs and went back to Empyrea after, and your coalition was held responsible so they were deployed to the best targets available.

I shall save this for post-war. Only way to battle bs is bs. And having people from IQ on forums is a treasure trove of it

[Blutarch Mann]

2 hours ago, Buorhann said:

First, no.  Join the choir.

Second, coward?

Hello, coward!

Only a coward continues to throw his own comrades at a war just to avoid losing face in public. You are the biggest coward of all.

Surrender and resign your post,

Undersecretary to the Office of PILOT EMERIUS, SUPREME CHAIRMAN OF THE GOONLAND COMMUNIST PARTY
Supreme Mugwump of the House of Foreign Affairs, Tobacco, and Firearms
Stairs To The House Of Prosperity Board Member
Chief Executive Officer of Builders League United
Keeper of Keys and Grounds at the Goonland School of Communism and Cutlery
Communist Weekly's Most Handsome Comrade Winner

Blutarch Mann

[Guest Epi]

1

Edited February 17, 2021 by Epi

[Theodosius]

Is this possible? A refreshing virulent force, roaming the lands of decayed autochthonous toxicity, capable of challenging it? I hope you can live up to the task, Goons. I'm rooting for you.

[Majima Goro]

3 hours ago, Blutarch Mann said:

Only a coward continues to throw his own comrades at a war just to avoid losing face in public. You are the biggest coward of all.

Hey, that sounds like BK/NPO

[Sphinx]

Haven't said anything in this thread, until now so I'll add our thoughts as Colo B's rep.

Firstly It should be obvious to people that making angry forum posts wont help in your current predicament, neither will trying to wriggle your way out of the situation by holding out in the hope for a change in circumstances. We've outlined repeatedly we require an admission of defeat before talks can commence. When your side talks the amount of shit they did, don't expect people to just allow that to be swepped under the rug and forgotten about, you don't have anyone else to blame for that than those who contributed to this grudge match. We never said we wanted an unconditional surrender, you are more than welcome to reject the terms and continue fighting, much like Germany had the option of doing so after WW1, but we won't budge from our outlined position. Also to reiterate and push back against the fake news surrounding what we (Colo B.) want from peace talks, anything you potentially might've heard is simply hearsay. Before he made this thread Seb spoke to me about some of these rumours including rumours that we wanted among other things to restrict the entire KERCHTOGG block from trading with anyone that isn't IQ. That and many of the other rumours floating around are demonstrably false, at this stage unless its confirmed by NG and I its not officially supported by Coalition B. I see some genuine concerns from both rank and file KERCHTOGG members right through to gov and high gov about such terms and I know that this fake news is contributing as a roadblock for any progress for the possible peace terms. So I'd advice any KERCHTOGG member concerned about things to hit NG or I up in DM's and we'd clear up any misconception. 

Secondly at this point its egos and pride which is holding back people from making rational decisions about the military realities of the war and coming to terms with their outcomes. IMO the war's gone on far too long, but we're (Coalition B.) willing to see this through well into new years and beyond so holding out to see if our resolve will break isn't going to get you anything either. To use an argument some from KERCHTOGG have used; the game's lost some good people from this war, but you cannot in good conscious blame Coalition B for that since we aren't the people holding out for some non-existent chance to get a white peace. I agree that such long wars are bad for the game and in hindsight its something we all as a community can work on when the next conflict comes around. But KERCHTOGG gains nothing but wasting their time and hurting the retention of their player-base by holding out and refusing to admit defeat, it costs you nothing to accept defeat and move on, whilst holding out for longer periods of time will cost you much much more.
 

[Pasky Darkfire]

Me reading through this thread this morning at work.

[Majima Goro]

11 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Haven't said anything in this thread, until now so I'll add our thoughts as Colo B's rep.

Firstly It should be obvious to people that making angry forum posts wont help in your current predicament, neither will trying to wriggle your way out of the situation by holding out in the hope for a change in circumstances. We've outlined repeatedly we require an admission of defeat before talks can commence. When your side talks the amount of shit they did, don't expect people to just allow that to be swepped under the rug and forgotten about, you don't have anyone else to blame for that than those who contributed to this grudge match. We never said we wanted an unconditional surrender, you are more than welcome to reject the terms and continue fighting, much like Germany had the option of doing so after WW1, but we won't budge from our outlined position. Also to reiterate and push back against the fake news surrounding what we (Colo B.) want from peace talks, anything you potentially might've heard is simply hearsay. Before he made this thread Seb spoke to me about some of these rumours including rumours that we wanted among other things to restrict the entire KERCHTOGG block from trading with anyone that isn't IQ. That and many of the other rumours floating around are demonstrably false, at this stage unless its confirmed by NG and I its not officially supported by Coalition B. I see some genuine concerns from both rank and file KERCHTOGG members right through to gov and high gov about such terms and I know that this fake news is contributing as a roadblock for any progress for the possible peace terms. So I'd advice any KERCHTOGG member concerned about things to hit NG or I up in DM's and we'd clear up any misconception. 

Secondly at this point its egos and pride which is holding back people from making rational decisions about the military realities of the war and coming to terms with their outcomes. IMO the war's gone on far too long, but we're (Coalition B.) willing to see this through well into new years and beyond so holding out to see if our resolve will break isn't going to get you anything either. To use an argument some from KERCHTOGG have used; the game's lost some good people from this war, but you cannot in good conscious blame Coalition B for that since we aren't the people holding out for some non-existent chance to get a white peace. I agree that such long wars are bad for the game and in hindsight its something we all as a community can work on when the next conflict comes around. But KERCHTOGG gains nothing but wasting their time and hurting the retention of their player-base by holding out and refusing to admit defeat, it costs you nothing to accept defeat and move on, whilst holding out for longer periods of time will cost you much much more.
 

Well, just tell what the terms are.

If you are confident of your victory, just go out and blast them on the nearest loudspeaker.

And although I agree we should hit IQ en masse later on again and again and again, that doesnt mean they wont be long wars. So let's continue this war- make it the last war ever fought on Orbis.

[Hodor]

24 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Haven't said anything in this thread, until now so I'll add our thoughts as Colo B's rep.

Firstly It should be obvious to people that making angry forum posts wont help in your current predicament, neither will trying to wriggle your way out of the situation by holding out in the hope for a change in circumstances. We've outlined repeatedly we require an admission of defeat before talks can commence. When your side talks the amount of shit they did, don't expect people to just allow that to be swepped under the rug and forgotten about, you don't have anyone else to blame for that than those who contributed to this grudge match. We never said we wanted an unconditional surrender, you are more than welcome to reject the terms and continue fighting, much like Germany had the option of doing so after WW1, but we won't budge from our outlined position. Also to reiterate and push back against the fake news surrounding what we (Colo B.) want from peace talks, anything you potentially might've heard is simply hearsay. Before he made this thread Seb spoke to me about some of these rumours including rumours that we wanted among other things to restrict the entire KERCHTOGG block from trading with anyone that isn't IQ. That and many of the other rumours floating around are demonstrably false, at this stage unless its confirmed by NG and I its not officially supported by Coalition B. I see some genuine concerns from both rank and file KERCHTOGG members right through to gov and high gov about such terms and I know that this fake news is contributing as a roadblock for any progress for the possible peace terms. So I'd advice any KERCHTOGG member concerned about things to hit NG or I up in DM's and we'd clear up any misconception. 

Secondly at this point its egos and pride which is holding back people from making rational decisions about the military realities of the war and coming to terms with their outcomes. IMO the war's gone on far too long, but we're (Coalition B.) willing to see this through well into new years and beyond so holding out to see if our resolve will break isn't going to get you anything either. To use an argument some from KERCHTOGG have used; the game's lost some good people from this war, but you cannot in good conscious blame Coalition B for that since we aren't the people holding out for some non-existent chance to get a white peace. I agree that such long wars are bad for the game and in hindsight its something we all as a community can work on when the next conflict comes around. But KERCHTOGG gains nothing but wasting their time and hurting the retention of their player-base by holding out and refusing to admit defeat, it costs you nothing to accept defeat and move on, whilst holding out for longer periods of time will cost you much much more.

For the most part I don't see anything wrong with this approach. I've said as much in this thread. The part I take issue with is the idea that either side holds some sort of moral high ground and where the worst voices of our side are parroted as the one truth, whereas the shit that gets thrown our way is expected to get swept under the rug, something you are not willing to do.

Again, no one is denying this is a point of pride. Most of that is the result of the above. We refuse to take full responsibility for the shit show this war has become.

[AkAk]

1 hour ago, Sphinx said:

Before he made this thread Seb spoke to me about some of these rumours including rumours that we wanted among other things to restrict the entire KERCHTOGG block from trading with anyone that isn't IQ. That and many of the other rumours floating around are demonstrably false, at this stage unless its confirmed by NG and I its not officially supported by Coalition B.

 

The very fact that your side won't make your peace demands public lends credence to the idea that they're onerous.

i.e. - if your demands aren't crazy then why not release them to the public and by doing so put pressure on Coalition A's leadership to accept them?  

Or are you telling us to play 20 questions with you and NG?  If we happen to hit upon a real demand will that be confirmed by a wink and a nod?  

Edited October 18, 2019 by AkAk

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

14 hours ago, Sir Sandro said:

You are quite wrong my dear friend, my community is comprised of people who trust each other and respect each other. You yourself are an example of the BK community. You think I have no idea how bad your behaviour is to Sunara, well you are wrong, this war can last a thousand years and my guys will still play while you are experiencing an implosion at this moment. You especially are losing your rankings within Orbis as a whole

Alright, gonna be honest here. I have no idea what in the hell you are on about. Nothing you said has anything in the slightest to do with what I said, and beyond that, I am honestly not quite sure what my arguments with Sunara have to do with anything. If that's seen as poor behavior, then I apologize, it's just part of life where I live. Arguments and fights are common in my part of the world, but that's besides the point. As for your comments about an implosion, and how we are losing our rankings, feel free to explain, because as far as I can see you're just one of the hundreds of young nations who likes to run their mouths.

[Prefonteen]

14 hours ago, Roquentin said:

I  mean, if we're in a war, we're all in. don't see the point in limited involvement.  The threats from you guys made it so we had to be in it to win it entirely. If there hadn't been so much anger it wouldn't have gotten to this level. I mean even if there had been anger and it cooled down then we could have had some calmer discussions and not gotten this heated.

With GPWC, some newbs were intimidated at first into neutrality and then your Empyrea friends rogued them on splinter AAs and went back to Empyrea after, and your coalition was held responsible so they were deployed to the best targets available.

Same thing with GOONS and the spying. Collective bargaining means collective responsibility for the others actions. Taking Soup Kitchen and TKR out of the equation in terms of being vocal and having lower tiers was the best deployment possible.

The CBs in terms of what information we got are TKR-oriented. I could have given BK cbs on KT or Rose if I was always actually leaking all the intel I got via tS or those people like I've been accused of doing. Like Zevfer asked me to roll BK and it was further substantiated by tS saying Rose wanted to roll BK when BK sphere militarized when surf's up started. That was all said in confidence and it would have been a betrayal of their trust even if  I wasn't planning to help them do what they wanted or disagreed with it. We don't have the type of CB on KETOG or Rose where it's an imminent threat, rather it's a risk. With TKR we had both independent mutual contacts and there was an additional risk of the MegaTKR merger which would mean defacto end of Chaos so if KERTCHOGG won and that happened,  it would have it a pretty narrow field.

 

Well, I've had you're a threat because of your positioning CB used on me before and everyone complaining now praised Partisan/tS for it despite us having no plans to hit them at the time.

Slightly more nuanced situation at the time: You were considered a threat by t$ because you signed (and thus became a link between) multiple different parties/spheres who had taken turns hitting t$ or its allies in 3 successive wars, during a period when tensions were tangible.

 

Other than that, yes, "you are a threat" is a logical justification. I'm more interested in the part where you hit t$' protectorates while allowing BK to hit t$.

[Guest PhantomThiefB]

58 minutes ago, Hodor said:

For the most part I don't see anything wrong with this approach. I've said as much in this thread. The part I take issue with is the idea that either side holds some sort of moral high ground and where the worst voices of our side are parroted as the one truth, whereas the shit that gets thrown our way is expected to get swept under the rug, something you are not willing to do.

Again, no one is denying this is a point of pride. Most of that is the result of the above. We refuse to take full responsibility for the shit show this war has become.

That's the beauty of politics, everyone will eventually come to a crossroad where either direction taken will get your hands dirty in some way. No one is innocent forever. Roq knew before our DoW on TKR that it would get a ton of backlash, but it was more about acting in our alliances best interests. Just as KETOG, Chaos and Rose all joined up against BK's sphere when the logdump happened. You acted in what you perceived as your own best interest. I don't think either examples I provided are necessarily mistakes, but looking out for your own to the best of your abilities at the time. And honestly there's nothing wrong with that in either case. I'd say it may be time to let bygones be bygones but on a personal level it means little to me whether or not the war ends today, christmas/new years, or next August.

[Sir Sandro]

17 minutes ago, Tarroc said:

Alright, gonna be honest here. I have no idea what in the hell you are on about. Nothing you said has anything in the slightest to do with what I said, and beyond that, I am honestly not quite sure what my arguments with Sunara have to do with anything. If that's seen as poor behavior, then I apologize, it's just part of life where I live. Arguments and fights are common in my part of the world, but that's besides the point. As for your comments about an implosion, and how we are losing our rankings, feel free to explain, because as far as I can see you're just one of the hundreds of young nations who likes to run their mouths.

Fam I'm almost a year old, yea that's 200 days younger than your nation but I'm very far from a new nation

As for Sunara I've got personal reasons to approach you like that but seeing that you apologized is a good sign. We should be gentlemen to women here no matter their alliance affiliation/age or whatever. Now about the war I myself stopped being part of it since like a month, irl and all. These "attacks" we are sending each other are just jokes, no?

Tell me if you felt offended by something and I'll apologize as well  

I'm not here to argue or be a d*ck like many people

[Sphinx]

2 hours ago, ShadyAssassin said:

Well, just tell what the terms are.

If you are confident of your victory, just go out and blast them on the nearest loudspeaker.

And although I agree we should hit IQ en masse later on again and again and again, that doesnt mean they wont be long wars. So let's continue this war- make it the last war ever fought on Orbis.

Mate even gov members of KERCHTOGG alliances have admitted they lost, that ship has sailed long ago. We haven't finalised terms yet because when you have KERCHTOGG proclaiming their intent to continue regardless of the cost, its pointless to draw up terms for a non-existent peace. I can give people in Colo B, a boot to get things hammered out quite quickly if KERCHTOGG signifies the intent to throw in the towel.

Also, whilst I'm fairly certain you're joking with your nihilism about perma war/last war of the game, I'm not so sure about others, ;,p 

2 hours ago, Hodor said:

For the most part I don't see anything wrong with this approach. I've said as much in this thread. The part I take issue with is the idea that either side holds some sort of moral high ground and where the worst voices of our side are parroted as the one truth, whereas the shit that gets thrown our way is expected to get swept under the rug, something you are not willing to do.

Again, no one is denying this is a point of pride. Most of that is the result of the above. We refuse to take full responsibility for the shit show this war has become.

I should clarify I think both sides are at fault to various degrees. However you can't deny that certain groups have been more provocative than others which only serves to make people dig their heals in more and prolong things that could've been wrapped up sooner. No one can rightfully say you guys need to have "full responsibility" for the events of this war, that's not something Colo B or I are looking for. All I want is an admission of defeat for the talks to commence, its what Colo B voted on and its want we're striving for. Plus it means TCW's won a war, which means mil rep restored. :,v /s

1 hour ago, AkAk said:

 

The very fact that your side won't make your peace demands public lends credence to the idea that they're onerous.

i.e. - if your demands aren't crazy then why not release them to the public and by doing so put pressure on Coalition A's leadership to accept them?  

Or are you telling us to play 20 questions with you and NG?  If we happen to hit upon a real demand will that be confirmed by a wink and a nod?  

That's your assumption, we've already shot down numerous false claims regarding possible terms Colo B might want. Nothing we've had in mind deviates from any previously established peace terms after great wars. 

As I said before, you side is free to admit defeat for discussions to commence, if you don't like terms for whatever reason you can always try your hand at pulling out and fighting to get your prized "white peace", but I don't fancy your chances. We've made ourselves clear with how we wish to conduct these talks, as of now we have no plans to deviate from them. 

[Charles Bolivar]

2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Haven't said anything in this thread, until now so I'll add our thoughts as Colo B's rep.

Firstly It should be obvious to people that making angry forum posts wont help in your current predicament, neither will trying to wriggle your way out of the situation by holding out in the hope for a change in circumstances. We've outlined repeatedly we require an admission of defeat before talks can commence. When your side talks the amount of shit they did, don't expect people to just allow that to be swepped under the rug and forgotten about, you don't have anyone else to blame for that than those who contributed to this grudge match. We never said we wanted an unconditional surrender, you are more than welcome to reject the terms and continue fighting, much like Germany had the option of doing so after WW1, but we won't budge from our outlined position. Also to reiterate and push back against the fake news surrounding what we (Colo B.) want from peace talks, anything you potentially might've heard is simply hearsay. Before he made this thread Seb spoke to me about some of these rumours including rumours that we wanted among other things to restrict the entire KERCHTOGG block from trading with anyone that isn't IQ. That and many of the other rumours floating around are demonstrably false, at this stage unless its confirmed by NG and I its not officially supported by Coalition B. I see some genuine concerns from both rank and file KERCHTOGG members right through to gov and high gov about such terms and I know that this fake news is contributing as a roadblock for any progress for the possible peace terms. So I'd advice any KERCHTOGG member concerned about things to hit NG or I up in DM's and we'd clear up any misconception. 

Secondly at this point its egos and pride which is holding back people from making rational decisions about the military realities of the war and coming to terms with their outcomes. IMO the war's gone on far too long, but we're (Coalition B.) willing to see this through well into new years and beyond so holding out to see if our resolve will break isn't going to get you anything either. To use an argument some from KERCHTOGG have used; the game's lost some good people from this war, but you cannot in good conscious blame Coalition B for that since we aren't the people holding out for some non-existent chance to get a white peace. I agree that such long wars are bad for the game and in hindsight its something we all as a community can work on when the next conflict comes around. But KERCHTOGG gains nothing but wasting their time and hurting the retention of their player-base by holding out and refusing to admit defeat, it costs you nothing to accept defeat and move on, whilst holding out for longer periods of time will cost you much much more.
 

If you had any sense of strategy, you would make the terms public. If they are as generous as they are claimed to be and our coalition leaders still refused to accept them, do you really think they would remain in power for long?

So go on, do us all a favour and provide the terms because all this bandying about just casts doubt upon your motives.

[Pasky Darkfire]

9 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Plus it means TCW's won a war, which means mil rep restored. :,v /s

Counter term #1: tCW has to admit total defeat and forgive all loans. ❤️ lmao

[Sphinx]

3 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

Counter term #1: tCW has to admit total defeat and forgive all loans. ❤️ lmao

Unlucky for you though, we don't really have anymore loans to KERCHTOGG people. :,v 

Just a lot of cash loaned to Colo B alliances, for tier boosting. 

Also, can't even let us have a win. >.< 

[Pasky Darkfire]

8 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Unlucky for you though, we don't really have anymore loans to KERCHTOGG people. :,v 

Just a lot of cash loaned to Colo B alliances, for tier boosting. 

Also, can't even let us have a win. >.< 

That's why I said ALL loans. Not just ones for us. See? My term is helping Coal. B. Already.

[Prefontaine]

40 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Plus it means TCW's won a war, which means mil rep restored.

Clarke has stated that TCW will never have a restored military rep, and @TheNG has been making alliances make it very clear Clarke has done nothing wrong. Therefore even your own side believes TCW still has a negative war rep.

[Archibald]

I've said this before, but the problem with the talks in this war (and why we aren't getting anywhere) is the constant insistence on arguing about who was right to attack in the first place. Whether NPO had proper CB, whether they actually struck first, if this whole thing is some big conspiracy; people keep arguing about that crap continuously in a circle. But the truth of the matter in regards to that? It doesn't gd matter.

I'm not gonna pretend to know the answer to the question of "was NPO in the right", because GOONS was new as heck and certainly not involved in the discussion that lead to the declaration (and even if it had been, I'm not FA). But it seriously doesn't matter, because it -happened-. You're arguing about whether or not this is morally just and it's like ??? Who cares. Do you think if Germany had just whined about the allies more in WW1 they would've won or something? This isn't how that works.

The war happened. It happened and is continuing to happen. The sooner you accept that, and accept the fact that you're -losing-, the sooner we can move the hell on and get this over with. Because this denial isn't just boring, it's straight up harmful to every new player trying to join.