peace talks

[Leonard J Crabs]

1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

I get what you're saying, but I don't trust you guys and quite honestly, I don't think you'd have stayed out of the war even then.

Afterall, the discussion between your precious leader and my government member showed that Jazz wasn't willing to give us assurances that GOONS would stop to begin with.

you would be wrong, and if there's anyone you trust in coalition b, they will confirm we attempted to stay out of the war.

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Yeah, I've read the chat log and I back my government member on it.  You're allied to NPO, you were caught spying, and you were retaliated against within reason.  Just because you have "idiots for members" does not excuse the attack.

DNFJ10/01/2019
I'm aware of, maybe, two spy reports against you guys from our members
Being idiots

-----------

This is the interesting thing.  You admitted you were aware of it, yet you were trying to play the victim card and asking how come we didn't approach you about it before retaliating.

Had you come up and said "Hey, some members of mine did some spy attacks, sorry about that" - that's one thing, but no, you decided to try and put the blame on us.

We didn't initiate anything onto GOONS, we only reacted, and given the fact NPO is pulling everything they have at their disposal (And later admitting they've been trying to get you guys into the war) - well, we had to go based on what we have in front of us.  Seeing as how NPO also stated that GPWC wasn't meant to be in the war, but they kept attacking us...  can't exactly take the word of GOONS here either.

Do you want me to go log dumping as well? Because I'm sure your allies in TKR won't like how you handled the situation and basically fricked your coalition even harder.

 

I had zero requirement to reach out to TGH over non-damaging spy reports. If TGH cared as much as you have stated they did, why was no approach ever made to GOONS to see what was going on? Or what, if any discipline had been enacted on our members for spying on a no-raid target. Nor did you ask for reps, which would have been gladly given to ensure our continued neutrality had you not escalated. 

Any other interpretation is nothing more than spin. TGH did not approach GOONS asking about the supposed spy attacks, and as GOONS is a sovereign and independent alliance, we are not beholden to NPO as you'd like to think. We are MDoAP partners with NPO because we view them as a valuable ally, not because we need controlled, nor are we. 

Even in the second paragraph, you admit you reacted without using diplomacy, meaning that you unfairly escalated and have caused immense damage to your reputation, coalition mates, and supposed friends. 

 

Even in the beginning of the war, GOONS orders were to only hit TKR and counter if necessary. You, even by virtue of your posts here are attempting to escalate further by accusing us of blatant untruths. Which if that is the route you'd like to go, I'd sure love to leave your alliance as a collective blast crater for the foreseeable future. 

[Buorhann]

Just now, Khris Kruel said:

you would be wrong, and if there's anyone you trust in coalition b, they will confirm we attempted to stay out of the war.

Then all Jazz had to do was give us some assurances, and we would've paid.

[Arawra]

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

Um, except every time it's happened before, it's eventually known to be the case that it was based on something real It also wasn't the sole reason. The actual reason was to balance the war out because of the considerable risk to our security from the KERTCHOGG coalition having a cakewalk victory  which was in the statement where it says this is why we declare war on TKR. You've focused on the proximal cause for the target choice not the overall aim. 

This is the absurd aspect of it since if you recall correctly, I was excoriated by Manthrax  and the rest in Trail of Tiers a few years back for the same thing and now the source of the intel from that war was made the leader of  CoS and that was after he had pushed for the war based  on the intel he got from someone now in a CoS protectorate.

Apologies on late reply;

Personally I don't keep score of every instance NPO's been accused of lying, though I assume there's been many, justified or not. In this particular instance I was responding based on the context in this thread, I wanted to say my piece because I think it's important to see our point of view, at least, the public view. I also don't believe your only aim was to weaken Alphabet Soup, but I'm also wary to believe you were trying to establish a hegemony. I do smell ulterior motives, but they could all be considered as mine own theories.

As for this second part, I actually wouldn't be able to recall this because I was not playing pnw during that time.

Edited October 17, 2019 by REAP3R

[Leonard J Crabs]

9 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Then all Jazz had to do was give us some assurances, and we would've paid.

You committed war attacks on us, and expected us to kneel or something? You're not very good at this.

3 bil net damage done because you failed at FA.

Hopefully you can learn from your failure in the future.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Khris Kruel

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Then all Jazz had to do was give us some assurances, and we would've paid.

Hey look, another fabulous lie from our resident TGH moron.

 

[Buorhann]

1 minute ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Do you want me to go log dumping as well? Because I'm sure your allies in TKR won't like how you handled the situation and basically fricked your coalition even harder.

I had zero requirement to reach out to TGH over non-damaging spy reports. If TGH cared as much as you have stated they did, why was no approach ever made to GOONS to see what was going on? Or what, if any discipline had been enacted on our members for spying on a no-raid target. Nor did you ask for reps, which would have been gladly given to ensure our continued neutrality had you not escalated. 

Even in the beginning of the war, GOONS orders were to only hit TKR and counter if necessary. You, even by virtue of your posts here are attempting to escalate further by accusing us of blatant untruths. Which if that is the route you'd like to go, I'd sure love to leave your alliance as a collective blast crater for the foreseeable future. 

You had zero requirement to reach out to TGH over spy reports?  Uh... what?  lol.

>Even in the beginning of the war, GOONS orders were to only hit TKR

So you're expecting us to stand aside and let you beat up on an alliance that we're on the same side with?

>blatant untruths

Where exactly?  You spied us, you got caught, we retaliated.

Go ahead and log dump it.

 

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

You had zero requirement to reach out to TGH over spy reports?  Uh... what?  lol.

>Even in the beginning of the war, GOONS orders were to only hit TKR

So you're expecting us to stand aside and let you beat up on an alliance that we're on the same side with?

>blatant untruths

Where exactly?  You spied us, you got caught, we retaliated.

Go ahead and log dump it.

 

Why would I approached TGH over an intel report that resulted in no harm being done to TGH by GOONS? The members in question were told not to spy on top 50 alliances or those protected by them and to stop, and they did.

Two random spy attacks, and your unnecessary escalation has caused your coalition over 3b in damage from GOONS alone in the span on 14 days. 

 

Truly you are a master of diplomacy.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Do Not Fear Jazz
typo

[Buorhann]

3 minutes ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Why would I approached TGH over an intel report that resulted in no harm being done to TGH by GOONS? The members in question were told not to spy on top 50 alliances or those protected by them and to stop, and they did.

Two random spy attacks, and your unnecessary escalation has caused your coalition over 3b in damage from GOONS lone in the span on 14 days. 

Truly you are a master of diplomacy.

Why would you approach TGH over an intel report?  Why the frick would you be doing intel reports to begin with?  Why would we just stand there and let you do spy reports on us?

"Oh it's harmless"

That makes it all better.  Gosh, I sure do learn from the best of you.

You keep citing the 3b in damages, ok, cool.  I do hope you guys are having fun.  NPO got what they wanted, you guys seem to have gotten what you wanted, and we got to statpad our spying operations.  It all works out.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Buorhann

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

Why would you approach TGH over an intel report?  Why the frick would you be doing intel reports to begin with?  Why would we just stand there and let you do spy reports on us?

"Oh it's harmless"

That makes it all better.  Gosh, I sure do learn from the best of you.

You keep citing the 3b in damages, ok, cool.  I do hope you guys are having fun.  NPO got what they wanted, you guys seem to have gotten what you wanted, and we got to statpad our spying operations.  It all works out.

Do you not understand the GOONS is a raiding alliance? They were looking for raid targets? Are you dumb...

 

oh wait, you're the leader of a bad micro, of course you are.

[Buorhann]

 

 

I'll have to give the Spy organizers in our coalition major props if they reduced your spies down to the point that only 2 of mine on Quick and Dirty can kill 71 Planes.

Thanks, @Do Not Fear Jazz

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

 

 

I'll have to give the Spy organizers in our coalition major props if they reduced your spies down to the point that only 2 of mine on Quick and Dirty can kill 71 Planes.

Thanks, @Do Not Fear Jazz

Let me know when you can actually do anything.

[dancemasterlee]

its good too see you have no argument and have been reduced to blowing up some paper airplanes

[Buorhann]

2 minutes ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Let me know when you can actually do anything.

-snip img-

https://npowned.net/pw-war-statistics/nation/12739

 

Sure, bud.

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

3 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

I'll have to give the Spy organizers in our coalition major props if they reduced your spies down to the point that only 2 of mine on Quick and Dirty can kill 71 Planes.

Thanks, @Do Not Fear Jazz

Oh hey I didn't catch this but you also just admitted that the spying on GOONS was coordinated and sanctioned by your entire coalition, meaning our entry, which you are crying about is 100% valid.

[Buorhann]

1 minute ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Oh hey I didn't catch this but you also just admitted that the spying on GOONS was coordinated and sanctioned by your entire coalition, meaning our entry, which you are crying about is 100% valid.

Er, I wasn't crying about your entry?

 

 

This is the first mention of it, from you.  Just seemed you wanted attention, and I gave it to you.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Buorhann

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

2 hours ago, Buorhann said:

You guys want to know why this entire war is bullshit on Coalition B's views?

Here's a couple of reasons:
1)  NPO pretty much threw everything in this, despite this "not being their war" initially.  GOONs, GPWC (Despite telling us that they're not part of this, but hey that changed quickly), their own allies, etc.

2) People are worried about what Keegoz/Sketchy said.

3) Majority of CBs from them are against TKR, but not against Chaos as a whole or KETOG, or both of our spheres - just TKR.

see: crying

Edited October 18, 2019 by Do Not Fear Jazz
i bolded it since you apparently are dumb

[Buorhann]

That's crying?  Quite a bit of a stretch there.  Is that what you really want to move the argument to now?

[Do Not Fear Jaz]

No, I'd rather you continue with the but the stats!!!! posts while you and your allies and ground into dust.

[Buorhann]

1 minute ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

No, I'd rather you continue with the but the stats!!!! posts while you and your allies and ground into dust.

We were already down in the gutter before your entry, so that's not a huge surprise there.  Glad you feel like you're accomplishing something though.  Afterall, we need more players, and GOONS would be a great addition.  I'm just glad we're helping you boost your confidence for any future plans you guys may have.

[Sir Scarfalot]

2 minutes ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

No, I'd rather you continue with the but the stats!!!! posts while you and your allies and ground into dust.

Says the guy being ground to dust, by dust, while desperately trying to grind dust into dust and wondering why it's still not changing.

[Archibald]

For anyone outside of this argument, please remember that our "spy attacks" were two intel gathering missions by players who misunderstood their order. We didn't blow up TGH planes, we didn't kill TGH spies (which they -immediately- did), we didn't blow up any military units or target their infrastructure.

The "goons didn't talk to us" line also falls flat considering it was -the same day- that TGH retaliated against us. And they retaliated immediately. Here's my asking about it and their proof of our spying. Note the dates. (Using imgur cause 2 images)

https://imgur.com/a/9m4NoCM

[JT Jag]

We sure are getting ground into dust alright

we've lost a whole like 2k NS alliancewide since getting involved in the war, this will clearly require stringent reparations

Edited October 18, 2019 by JT Jag

[Buorhann]

You guys seem awfully butthurt about this, despite bragging about the 3bn in damages you've done.

Lesson learned, don't spy others unless you want to get spied back.  Or, at the very least, don't get caught spying people who are already at war.

[JT Jag]

Just now, Buorhann said:

You guys seem awfully butthurt about this, despite bragging about the 3bn in damages you've done.

Lesson learned, don't spy others unless you want to get spied back.  Or, at the very least, don't get caught spying people who are already at war.

And don't moan about NPO dragging people into the war if you're openly admitting you forced us in.