Justonia Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 This thread in summary: *Surrendering without terms is apparently not an unconditional surrender *We've always been at war with Eastasia I think the original post's question has been answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 There's no possibility of peace; trust has been broken. I've gone over this elsewhere, but the simple fact is that there's no way either side can trust even a surrender from the other since both are completely convinced that the other will simply break any agreement they make. Thus, no agreements of any kind are possible. As for whose fault that is, I'll just say that it's not our coalition that's literally attacked their own allies, while allied, multiple times. Without cancelling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etat Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I don't really get it. Coalition B want everyone else out of the sand-pit who won't play their games, who will you play with if you get your way?? It normally plays out like this: everyone else goes to another sand pit which is more fun without the big kids wrecking it for everyone else, then......hey ho, here come the big kids who are bored over in their sand pit all by themselves to do the same. Coalition B leaders, you are incredibly poor politicians, you apparently personalise everything and you do not seem to have the interests of everyone (including your own coalition's nations) as the driver for best possible outcomes. You exercise your power with great glee and with little consequence, and no desire for accountability. I don't need to be a long term player or involved in your farcical negotiations to see the feebleness and selfishness in your actions. Here's a top tip for coalition B leaders, the people who call the shots are ultimately responsible for the outcome! You have the hordes behind you to effect nearly any change you desire. If you want peace then make it happen. It is an unpleasant reality that power differentials exist and that one needs to account for them when conducting business with others in an ethical manner. For our part all I can say is that overwhelmed the underdog does not give up, but a good first step is to throw it a bone. 2 Quote Celer Et Audax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrachime Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: As extreme as “you can’t spin your way out of this. Your time is up. Scorched earth. Anyone tied to NPO and BK will sink with the ship”? Don’t get indignant about extremes when it’s your side that pushed it there. I could care less who is right and who is wrong. Politics on BOTH sides have gone too far. Question is, who is going to be the bigger person and work past it? Is this game and its survival worth pushing beyond our petty views? Edited October 17, 2019 by Syrachime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Syrachime said: I could care less who is right and who is wrong. Politics on both sides have gone too far. Question is, who is going to be the bigger person and work past it? Is this game and its survival worth pushing beyond our petty views? At this point, no. Trust has been broken, which means that there's no honest interaction possible anymore. There is no way to work past that other than the total annihilation of both sides, followed by the introduction of a wholly new community that doesn't have decades of baggage, drama, and successful experiences with degeneracy, while also somehow having all of the experience and capability of the most hardened veterans of today. The game's survival would be worth it if it had anything in it other than petty liars, cheats, paranoiacs, and Scarfs. But it doesn't, so what's to save? Edited October 17, 2019 by Sir Scarfalot 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Syrachime said: I could care less who is right and who is wrong. Politics on BOTH sides have gone too far. Question is, who is going to be the bigger person and work past it? Is this game and its survival worth pushing beyond our petty views? That’s a convenient line to push when it’s your side on the bottom, isn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Etatsorp said: I don't really get it. Coalition A want everyone else out of the sand-pit who won't play their games, who will you play with if you get your way?? It normally plays out like this: everyone else goes to another sand pit which is more fun without the big kids wrecking it for everyone else, then......hey ho, here come the big kids who are bored over in their sand pit all by themselves to do the same. Coalition A leaders, you are incredibly poor politicians, you apparently personalise everything and you do not seem to have the interests of everyone (including your own coalition's nations) as the driver for best possible outcomes. You exercise your power with great glee and with little consequence, and no desire for accountability. I don't need to be a long term player or involved in your farcical negotiations to see the feebleness and selfishness in your actions. Here's a top tip for coalition A leaders, the people who call the shots are ultimately responsible for the outcome! You have the hordes behind you to effect nearly any change you desire. If you want peace then make it happen. It is an unpleasant reality that power differentials exist and that one needs to account for them when conducting business with others in an ethical manner. For our part all I can say is that overwhelmed the underdog does not give up, but a good first step is to throw it a bone. Still works, doesn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, Of The Flies said: haha lol lmbo so funny that you can't read and understand a simple sentence. If you could write one there’d be no issue. 38 minutes ago, Of The Flies said: dingus If it was 1997 I’d be furious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etat Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: Still works, doesn’t it? I'd like to know what you think is working? Quote Celer Et Audax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrachime Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: That’s a convenient line to push when it’s your side on the bottom, isn’t it? We might be on the bottom militarily speaking, but at least we haven't attacked or turn our backs on our own allies and friends. And in spite of all that, we all seem more than willing to sink or swim together. The sad thing is you are really going to let those 'under you' be the bigger person in this debacle... That's sure to help your public relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Syrachime said: We might be on the bottom militarily speaking, but at least we haven't attacked or turn our backs on our own allies and friends. And in spite of all that, we all seem more than willing to sink or swim together. The sad thing is you are really going to let those 'under you' be the bigger person in this debacle... That's sure to help your public relations. I don’t care about public relations. The important stuff is private and that’s going just fine. Edited October 17, 2019 by Aragorn, son of Arathorn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrachime Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: I don’t care about public relations. I've noticed... As has Order of the White Rose and several others... Your other allies might want to know that as well. Thank you for pointing it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: I don’t care about public relations. The important stuff is private and that’s going just fine. bet that's not the first time you've had to say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Auctor said: bet that's not the first time you've had to say that The crowd just makes me nervous ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: The crowd just makes me nervous ok? we really need to work on your self esteem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Auctor said: we really need to work on your self esteem Is that what they mean when they say be the bigger man? Jeez this pump was a waste of money. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do Not Fear Jaz Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 the war will continue until morale improves 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curufinwe Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said: the war will continue until morale improves We've always been at war with Eastasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macharius Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 9:11 PM, Forsteri said: the ice cream is called ben & jerrys are ben and jerry the exact same size is it truly 50% ben and 50% jerry I think jerry is a little bit bigger Why does Jerry, the largest ice cream man, not simply eat the other 5! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do Not Fear Jaz Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Also if anyone in ketog or chaos actually wants to end the war hit me up I am rantional and level headed and will single handedly end the war 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteuartGeharon Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 After this war the "winning" coalition should bring back the PNW UN/League of Nations, so we can do future wars like civilized 21st century blowhards. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Meat Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Miller said: If you could write one there’d be no issue. If it was 1997 I’d be furious. Do you communicate in anything other than off the mark super sick burn one liners? And have you learned the difference between doing something and saying that you're willing to do something yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said: As for the second part, your side's leaders made it clear what would happen to us if we were in your shoes, we have no interest in a "greater good" which translates to "you give we take". Considering your side's public and stated goal was to end BK and NPO, wanting those same people to simply admit they lost is hardly an egregious escalation. You guys sure are fond of this argument but... 1) It was never our stated goal to end BK and NPO, we have stated our actual goal multiple times over 2) Literally all that was ever discussed when we were undeniably on top was surrender and one other term 3) We weren't going to hide anything like you're trying to do Either be straightforward with the terms or stop bullsh*tting us that all you want is surrender because no one believes that with your current stance. Saying all you want is a surrender while also telling us there are more terms afterwards if we surrender is undeniably contradictory. Edited October 17, 2019 by Nizam Adrienne 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Syrachime said: What are you so afraid of with us? You say we are the ones intimidating alliances into leaving you, but didn't you guys turn your backs on t$ when BK attacked them? Didn't Order of the White rose and another alliance leave BK because of this war? As far as I'm aware, we haven't done anything to make that happen. You guys did that yourself. You guys are the ones destroying your own PR and prolonging this war over something as pathetic as politics isn't helping your image... Like I said, I guarantee you the average gamer could care as less about the hows and whys of this war. You guys are your own worst enemy at this point, not us... We didn't turn our backs on tS. tS made it clear they no longer took NPO into consideration and had made the decision to end the relationship and committed several acts of war against us/Coalition B. The fact that they did not formally terminate it at that time led to the perception outside the relationship was fully in tact and it was us turning on them. They had crossed the rubicon in terms of offenses and made it clear they were more foe than friend. This was despite us being willing to reconcile for a long time but the mediation efforts prior to the determining confrontation had been shot down by the Syndicate and the final confrontation culminated in mockery and derision. The other alliances left because BK didn't win it fast enough for them. Many alliances that aren't super politically involved are weak-minded and expect their anchor ally to win fast and outright or else they lose their credibility. So the typical attitude of your antecedents/present coalition leadership was to put enough military pressure on the weakest links and tell them "if you cut BK, you'll have no problems from us," so one of the treaties of an alliance that canceled on BK then signed a treaty titled Greener Pastures which was fitting. They saw tS at large, intact, and making bank and an alternative to having to war for long periods of time. With OWR historically they have always peaced early in wars and have typically been war-weary. This has been continuously been set as a precedent throughout the years. Our current coalition consists of alliances forged in the crucible of repeated losses. There is no way appease people who expect everything to be easy short of always winning day one. Your side is more in tact because it's made up of the traditional ruling alliances so they know what they're in it for while the departed peripheral alliances don't have the same investment even if their ally has done stuff for them. Edited October 17, 2019 by Roquentin 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said: Also if anyone in ketog or chaos actually wants to end the war hit me up I am rantional and level headed and will single handedly end the war Great, looking forward to your surrender then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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