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Add Anti-Aircraft to Tanks

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10 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Would make it even harder to win any of your wars if facing any bigger nations if they can wipe out both your ground & air force using one type of attack. ūüėē

Well, Aircrafts also do pretty much that

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3 minutes ago, ShadyAssassin said:

Well, Aircrafts also do pretty much that

They also do the least resistance damage for the MAP, also ground attacks cost the least MAP. However Navy, Ground & Air is the order in how effective they are in taking down resistance for the MAP.

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6 minutes ago, Changeup said:

How would it destroy balance? If anything, it would keep air from being overly OP. We could do it with ships instead of tanks if that's what your suggestion. Not really a fan of the missile thing, but it could work. 

 

Of course it would be considered OP, as it directly targets another OP unit.

 

The problem is tanks weakness should be planes.

Adding AA ability to tanks isn't really keeping with realism or practicality; in RL its AA artillery which is used against planes + secondly, even if you did implement this you then run into the issue tanks being OP vs. both ground/air with no counter. Quite simply tanks should be vulnerable to planes; yes planes are unbalanced as things currently stand but this isn't the way to go about addressing it.

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1 minute ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

They also do the least resistance damage for the MAP, also ground attacks cost the least MAP. However Navy, Ground & Air is the order in how effective they are in taking down resistance for the MAP.

Uh. It costs one less map. And at the current state, it's not nearly as effective as aircraft. (Not even close). It also only takes down two less res than aircraft. Lol

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Just now, CitrusK said:

Uh. It costs one less map. And at the current state, it's not nearly as effective as aircraft. (Not even close). It also only takes down two less res than aircraft. Lol

10 vs 12 resistance damage is only one fifth more resistance damage, although costs one third more MAP. Navy for the same MAP does 2 more than Air. So need to sacrifice speed in taking down someone's resistance if focusing on air attacks.

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6 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

10 vs 12 resistance damage is only one fifth more resistance damage, although costs one third more MAP. Navy for the same MAP does 2 more than Air. So need to sacrifice speed in taking down someone's resistance if focusing on air attacks.

I mean... yeah? Most people don't want to beige their enemies though, and airstrikes cause substantially more damage...

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4 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

They also do the least resistance damage for the MAP, also ground attacks cost the least MAP. However Navy, Ground & Air is the order in how effective they are in taking down resistance for the MAP.

Your first line basically means Aircrafts can do more damage since wars with planes only last longer.
You are contradicting yourself here and strengthening my point of how OP aircrafts are.
They can destroy Aircrafts AND Tanks.

What is being suggested here is we let tanks do the same thing

Tanks are super costly-they cost 1 steel to produce. And when Airstriked, you lose 2000 steel in a go at the least.
Aircrafts on the other hand cost 4 aluminium. When airstriked, you can lose like 1200 aluminium and some cash on average.

The suggestion here is to equalize the damage done. The OP makes the tanks OP so I've suggested decreasing the ratio by another factor of 10. 
Then, we take out like 50 aircrafts~150 aluminium. This is still way too small though and wont even have that much of an impact except curbing how many units you gain a day.

Even if the largest nation was in a war, he takes out say 800 air with AS on air and around 9000+ tanks with AS on tanks
Equating, thats 2400 alu but 9000 steel

You can already see how damaging aircrafts are from this example. 
But if implemented, there is an extra 300 air taken out making the damage equal to 1200ish planes or 3600 alu, bridging the gap by a bit

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Just now, CitrusK said:

I mean... yeah? Most people don't want to beige their enemies though, and airstrikes cause substantially more damage...

I prefer beiging them unless just throwing nukes, don't think the game mechanics should be based around people not trying to win their wars. Most of the time unless in a very coordinated war, you want to beige and loot as many as possible. lol

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2 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

I prefer beiging them unless just throwing nukes, don't think the game mechanics should be based around people not trying to win their wars. Most of the time unless in a very coordinated war, you want to beige and loot as many as possible. lol

Okay. I understand you're not good at war. But the point of war is to cause as much sustained damage as you can. That means destroying units asap. I'm saying that aircraft are better at that, even more so than the proposed tanks.

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4 minutes ago, CitrusK said:

Okay. I understand you're not good at war. But the point of war is to cause as much sustained damage as you can. That means destroying units asap. I'm saying that aircraft are better at that, even more so than the proposed tanks.

Maybe if somebody doesn't have any ground forces left, having it possible for ground attack to hit air could make sense. Although realistically the tanks focused on air would probably be useless in the ground war; as they'd need to be focused on one or the other usually. So its possible some balance changes could be done, although would need to be careful how its done.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

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I think it'd be cool to allow tanks to do that on defense, on offence I think also destroying planes would make tanks wayy too op

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17 minutes ago, MRBOOTY said:

I think it'd be cool to allow tanks to do that on defense, on offence I think also destroying planes would make tanks wayy too op

Problem with them doing it on the defense is it'd nearly be impossible to win in the air against anyone who also has max planes & max tanks, unless their city count is low enough you can make up the difference in more planes. So while I kind of like the idea of more defensive stuff against planes; it would be incredibly difficult to beat someone in the air who is maxed in both tanks & aircrafts; unless you take ground control first & their tanks can't make up the difference you gained from that.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

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3 hours ago, Swedge said:

Tanks are fine tbh. Main benefit is the ground advantage vs. soldiers + extra loot. Imo war mechanics could do with a new feature to make it more interesting/less stale. So my personal suggestion would be to introduce a new improvement, something along the lines of an artillery factory which could produce 3 types of unit:

- Anti-Air (good vs. planes but relatively useless vs. soldiers/tanks). Can only be used defensively.

- Anti-Tank (good vs. tanks, less effective vs. soldiers, relatively useless vs. planes). Less effective on offense.

- Artillery (good vs. soldiers, less effective vs. tanks, relatively useless vs. planes). Less effective on offense

Pretty good idea tbh, the war system is in need of the change. This concept would reasonably work well if all of these are balanced out correctly, if not the game might turn into something like Cybernations where there is a lot of variations of military units (aircraft and ships) and it has been too much for the players to handle and half of them have turned to being somewhat useless. (Forgive me if I’m wrong, it’s been a long time since I have played the game)

 

6 hours ago, Changeup said:

add Anti-Aircraft guns to tanks. 

So is this more like an add-on? Something that you can easily add-on or a completely different military unit all-together?

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The way to address this is passive AA. Ground forces have AA weapons, planes attack, they shoot at them, some of the planes die.

Ships especially have AA weapons, and like to group together. Planes attack, they shoot at them, some of the planes die, and CIWS yeets some of the missiles. Which actually explains why planes kill ships kinda slowly, come to think of it. Probably unintentional, but hey.

How many die should depend on how many ships or ground units there are and how many planes someone has remaining to defend. It shouldn't be a massive number but over the course of a day, especially fighting several wars, it should take a nice bite into somebodys rebuy. 

One could further revisit the idea of an AA project based off land, though the project would tbh have to be pretty cheap, otherwise it just makes it easier for whales. This ignoring that @Elijah Mikaelson would be practically unkillable with that thing except by other whales.

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46 minutes ago, Haris said:

So is this more like an add-on? Something that you can easily add-on or a completely different military unit all-together?

It's an add-on to tanks. You would buy it through the tanks page but would have the option to make them AA when buying them.

Also, here are two variations I have thought of: 

What if it was ships instead of tanks?
What if it was bought through a project instead?

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"I'm losing in wars, please fix things that aren't broken so I can win?!"

 

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I'll just quote the game, "Tanks are ground battle enhancers. They dramatically increase the effectiveness of your ground army."

Tanks are in a good place as is. Unlike with soldiers and planes, you must assess your situation to determine whether it is appropriate to build tanks or not. One of the major complaints with baseball is its mindless ‚Äėclicker game‚Äô nature, so I take more thinking between clicks to be a good thing. And both sides in the current war have deemed tanks to be valuable despite all their downsides. Tanks are a situational unit. If you build tanks while your opponent has air control, you rightly deserve to suffer.

The concern over updeclares is certainly well founded. As the game stands, they are only possible because planes are fast to destroy and slow to build. Once prospective harpooners have to win an uphill battle on the ground as well as in the air, it becomes nearly impossible to effectively bring down a larger nation than your own.

Edited by Them
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Maybe if it was a separate unit which only attacked air & you could build instead of tanks, it wouldn't be as OP. Also if defensively it only hit aircraft doing ground attacks; could still beat people in the air targeting other stuff.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

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I like the idea of ground units being able to defend from aircraft but they shouldnt be able to attack them. Anti-air is only used when the target is being defended from air attacks. 

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20 minutes ago, Viselli said:

I like the idea of ground units being able to defend from aircraft but they shouldnt be able to attack them. Anti-air is only used when the target is being defended from air attacks. 

As long as ground units just defend against air attacks against the ground, don’t think it would really imbalance things to much for a unit to do that.

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While I favor ground forces and ships having some sort of AA capability, this proposal needs a whole lot more work before it is ready for prime time.

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12 hours ago, Changeup said:

Tanks are currently one of the military units used more sparingly used in alliance warfare. They're expensive and their value goes down even more with Air Superiority. My suggestion is to be able to add Anti-Aircraft guns to tanks. 

Used sparingly?

There are 54m tank kills in Dial Up alone, along with some 4m tanks being fielded right now. Tanks are used plenty.

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By one moment I thought I was in other game forum, so I had to check again. And no we are not in WWO, and we do not need WWO lots of Units mechanics, But now that you suggested, why not add Bazookas, or why not add Submarines, Paradrops, Snipers, Spec Ops, Anti-Tank Tanks. Choppers?

I tell you why not, because it would turn the game into an OP Mess...

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Lmao like an Apocalypse tank from C&C Red Alert 2, I like that.

Why not give ships AA capabilities instead? I need more than just planes being shot down, I want satellites too. Dang it, dude, where are my chemical lasers!?

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There is no need to add a bunch of stuff, if planes can bomb tanks then why cant my tanks target air force bases while the planes are on the ground? Or my navy fire on them? That's all I want. No need to add a bunch of random units. Navy should be able to shell tanks and ect as well. 

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