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Remove Keno


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On 10/10/2019 at 10:25 AM, Vivec said:

Very straightforward. Someone just won 25bil from it, reportedly. Remove dice as well please.

I think that's a good idea. It's not related to the game at all, and like baseball, was something that was a fun project for me (creating my own keno games) but really adds nothing to the nation simulation experience and doesn't belong at all.

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Keno and Dice are not reliable monetary sources and are not comparable to baseball in that regard. Keno operates more like a money sink than it does a money generator and while some have made a net positive from playing it, that has not been the case for an unfortunate majority. Additionally, I think Keno and Dice make good in wars when you're blockaded and carrying money that you wouldn't want your enemies stealing. Gambling it on casino games yields either, a net gain which you gamble further or invest into your nation, or a net negative which your enemy can no longer steal.

Yeah it's not what PnW is about, ultimately, but I think it's a mechanic that serves a unique purpose in losing wars; preventing the enemy from stealing money + little bit of fun if you happen to win.

Edited by REAP3R
Added the bottom sentence
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I think it's important to ensure that there is no risk that an exploit exists that somehow lets you win more often; due to EM winning big in keno at least twice there has been speculation in that direction. If there is a risk of an exploit here then i'd say turn it off, otherwise i think its a fun feature that i'd be sad to see go. If on average the net profit from keno is negative then i don't think it's needed to remove it despite occasional jackpots.

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4 hours ago, Alex said:

I think that's a good idea. It's not related to the game at all, and like baseball, was something that was a fun project for me (creating my own keno games) but really adds nothing to the nation simulation experience and doesn't belong at all.

Now, before you go guns-blazing in a war against keno, baseball, and everything else that makes this game fun, think about the game we're playing right now. This is politics and war. This is a game that lets you play baseball with your friends, keno away all of your money, and play dice until you're broke. This is not a game where you log-in everyday cause it looks nice and it's a spectacular game that is revolutionizing the gaming industry. There's too many game breaking bugs for that. 

Keno and baseball are both very fun games that you can play while your nation is doing nothing. They're a good way to avoid having this game die and become stupid. Keno and dice let you do something other than watch your nation burn. They're both the activities that will help you get through to the next day. So be it if some people win money from it.

19 hours ago, Inst said:

Pragmatically, the problem with Keno is that the max jackpot is huge. It's the difference between Keno and Dice; Dice has only 1.5% expected losses per game, but Dice only gives you a max of 25 million return on hitting the jackpot. If, say, 10000 players play about 1000 games each of Keno at 50 million, and most players end up losing 1.750 billion, there's a 63% chance at least one player will end up hitting the 500 billion jackpot. And that's really destabilizing, for a single individual to randomly luck out and hit 500 billion, which is more than the quantity of money in all nations right now. Hell, it's half of the quantity needed to hit 100 cities, about the quantity needed for NPO to hit 25 cities, and so on.

A. If 10k players play 1k games, and they all end up losing 1.750, that's 17 trillion dollars. That means, like, 34 people could win the 500 billion jackpot and still we'd be good. 

Also, in the long while that Keno has been out, has anyone ever won 500 billion? I've played at least 1800-3000 games of keno. Some people have played far more than me, and some people have played far less. Yet, I don't see anyone waving around their 500 billion dollars like a ticket to the Chocolate factory.

Edited by CitrusK
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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
4 hours ago, Dryad said:

I think it's important to ensure that there is no risk that an exploit exists that somehow lets you win more often; due to EM winning big in keno at least twice there has been speculation in that direction. If there is a risk of an exploit here then i'd say turn it off, otherwise i think its a fun feature that i'd be sad to see go. If on average the net profit from keno is negative then i don't think it's needed to remove it despite occasional jackpots.

I won big 11 or 12 months ago and again in the last few days but you have no idea how much I have spent playing it between then and now, see you hear about the wins as well its enjoyable, but you do not hear of the times I lose billions, sure if Alex added up what I spent and what I won I would be well ahead, but lets not make it out that i only played twice and won big both times lol. I have seen screen shots of people getting Ten numbers on keno but no one hear of it due to them betting like 50k or 100k, I bet 50 MILLION at a time, so when i hit 8 numbers its worth something, but hell I lose billions doing it also.

@Alex Baseball has no effect at all on nation politics or war, its just 100% money maker, yes I know you Nerf-ed it a little but people will still make billions of it just slower, Keno is a game of chance, you can win big but hell ask anyone who plays, you can lose big too.

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5 hours ago, Dryad said:

I think it's important to ensure that there is no risk that an exploit exists that somehow lets you win more often; due to EM winning big in keno at least twice there has been speculation in that direction. If there is a risk of an exploit here then i'd say turn it off, otherwise i think its a fun feature that i'd be sad to see go. If on average the net profit from keno is negative then i don't think it's needed to remove it despite occasional jackpots.

I mean we're all numerate here, EV of Keno is .97, i.e, per game played, martingale or not martingale, you should be losing on average 3.5% of your bet per game.

 

Law of large numbers says that, for an individual player, Keno makes no sense. For a large group of Keno players, some players are simply going to get lucky and make out like bandits from it.

 

As far as exploiting goes, with .1% yield in the positive direction, you get 50k per game, about 5x better than baseball per keno game. At 1% yield in the positive direction, you get 500k per game, or 50x better than baseball.

Edited by Inst

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5 hours ago, Alex said:

I think that's a good idea. It's not related to the game at all, and like baseball, was something that was a fun project for me (creating my own keno games) but really adds nothing to the nation simulation experience and doesn't belong at all.

Overall I don’t care about dice & keno; since overall I’ve lost money. Although would actually prefer you make baseball better again rather than eliminate all these mini games or make them completely useless.

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Just now, Epi said:

If Sheepy wants to get rid of derpy gambling mini-games let him. With the caveat he's updating the game more frequently.

Wouldn’t be much of a loss, Baseball made people interact more beyond just fighting which was kind of nice. Although the gambling stuff doesn’t.

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
7 minutes ago, Epi said:

If Sheepy wants to get rid of derpy gambling mini-games let him. With the caveat he's updating the game more frequently.

I agree but would rather see updates on fixing bugs, improving the war system, adding better projects, and improving the game on a whole, than what we have gotten lately, I do not care if someone has made 13 billion in baseball over the last 2 years, if they are doing it without cheating they earned that money I have spammed baseball and omg after an hour i could not longer do it. So many things wrong with the game and so many good improvements can be made but here we are talking about keno, baseball, Dice. and getting updates for things like new winter images, copy nation link. In the last three months the only update the only update I think has improved the game was the updated mobile bar.

 

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6 hours ago, Alex said:

I think that's a good idea. It's not related to the game at all, and like baseball, was something that was a fun project for me (creating my own keno games) but really adds nothing to the nation simulation experience and doesn't belong at all.

yaay, so you're finally removing BB, Keno and dice. Took you long enough.

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1 hour ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

I agree but would rather see updates on fixing bugs, improving the war system, adding better projects, and improving the game on a whole, than what we have gotten lately, I do not care if someone has made 13 billion in baseball over the last 2 years, if they are doing it without cheating they earned that money I have spammed baseball and omg after an hour i could not longer do it. So many things wrong with the game and so many good improvements can be made but here we are talking about keno, baseball, Dice. and getting updates for things like new winter images, copy nation link. In the last three months the only update the only update I think has improved the game was the updated mobile bar.

 

Debatable on whether that was an improvement over being able to see your resources default, although mostly agree with you. Rather than focusing on destroying features some like & others don’t care for; should be improving other stuff.

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Honestly, I'm more than happy to see less money-spawning shenanigans in the game. There's other things I'd like to see more, but it's progress in a good direction.

That said, let him keep the windfall, rules should never ever be changed retroactively.

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2 hours ago, Epi said:

Hey i feel yah @Elijah Mikaelson, that Baseball nerf was BS. He needed to wait at least another week for me to double my money. As for his updates. Eh, i think he's well aware that the more he removes the more he needs to replace it. He'll have a tally of how many hours people were playing these mini-games on avg and baseball was a good test of the drop-off.

Unless he wants a good chunk of the player base to leave, he'll push out more updates to compensate.

#Baseball Died for our Sins,
#Keno will be our salvation

Prepare, my brothers, for the great journey!

We only lose when we stop betting! Victory to all!

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
47 minutes ago, Theodosius said:

If I can get a refund for all the money I blew on Keno, I'd fully endorse this proposal :P 

whats your total?

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