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[MULTIPLE] GOONS On Vacation


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5 hours ago, Epi said:

On the surface I'm fine with people rping Nazi germany. Same with crusaders and others. They don't necessarily have to be incels or white nationalists. They may just be fond of history. It'd be like calling someone a bad person for playing the axis in HOI4, crusaders in Eu4 and Mongols in total war. 

That said AK deserves to die in a fire. Ciao

Hello!

If someone was truly fond of history, they would choose to theme themselves after the millions of other historical civilizations that have built on our planet that weren't genocidal maniacs.

Good tidings,

Undersecretary to the Office of PILOT EMERIUS, SUPREME CHAIRMAN OF THE GOONLAND COMMUNIST PARTY
Supreme Mugwump of the House of Foreign Affairs, Tobacco, and Firearms
Stairs To The House Of Prosperity Board Member
Chief Executive Officer of Builders League United
Keeper of Keys and Grounds at the Goonland School of Communism and Cutlery
Communist Weekly's Most Handsome Comrade Winner

Blutarch Mann

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29 minutes ago, Blutarch Mann said:

Hello!

If someone was truly fond of history, they would choose to theme themselves after the millions of other historical civilizations that have built on our planet that weren't genocidal maniacs.

Good tidings,

Undersecretary to the Office of PILOT EMERIUS, SUPREME CHAIRMAN OF THE GOONLAND COMMUNIST PARTY
Supreme Mugwump of the House of Foreign Affairs, Tobacco, and Firearms
Stairs To The House Of Prosperity Board Member
Chief Executive Officer of Builders League United
Keeper of Keys and Grounds at the Goonland School of Communism and Cutlery
Communist Weekly's Most Handsome Comrade Winner

Blutarch Mann

But if history is a sign of things, almost every major empire were at some level genocidal, or racist maniacs :P 

i.e Best not to RP history folks! Heard it here first ;) 

3 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

If you haven't figured it out by now, with us directly telling you repeatedly exactly what we were after, not sure there's much else I can say.

What is it that you wanted to do? Sign up for a winning war with your coalition members holding nazi views while calling others out for the same? I don't see Roq saying much else :P 

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1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said:

What is it that you wanted to do? Sign up for a winning war with your coalition members holding nazi views while calling others out for the same? I don't see Roq saying much else :P 

I always do enjoy hearing your take on things. It's so interesting to see how far you can warp things to try and match your outlandish viewpoints. 

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KT man bad

1 hour ago, Epi said:

There are no good states, kingdoms, empires or men. The Nazi's of yesterday are the employees of Operation Paperclip today.

History nonsense aside though. The first reply is correct, whilst this isn't always the case. As far as I've seen, AK-KT go way overboard. Glorifying this stuff. Though KT mainly does it to be edgy... Both have secret channels where the few true believers espouse their BS tho. KT had a pretty famous one a few years back. AK's is now the talk of the town.

Just fyi, it wasn't secret it was public. The fact it was public was the reason we had to get rid of it because people outside of KT congregated there and posted stuff that isn't worth mentioning. Most of gov weren't interested in it and therefore trying to moderate it became a hassle.

I wouldn't be throwing stones too much btw. 

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I always do enjoy hearing your take on things. It's so interesting to see how far you can warp things to try and match your outlandish viewpoints. 

So none of that is true? Do educate me on how everything that is mentioned above is somehow warped or outlandish.

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8 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

If you haven't figured it out by now, with us directly telling you repeatedly exactly what we were after, not sure there's much else I can say.

The reason it's not really that believable is because unifying  "minispheres" to hit another sphere isn't exactly conducive to maintaining minispheres. It would make more sense if one truly believed in them to just take the losses on their own. The intuitive answer is you wanted to beat down  an alliance or alliances at all costs and get a win.

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38 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

The reason it's not really that believable is because unifying  "minispheres" to hit another sphere isn't exactly conducive to maintaining minispheres. It would make more sense if one truly believed in them to just take the losses on their own. The intuitive answer is you wanted to beat down  an alliance or alliances at all costs and get a win.

I think that take on things says more about you than us.

Edited by Nizam Adrienne
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On 10/3/2019 at 1:44 AM, Inst said:

GOONS gets bored of winning games faster than NPO does. When GOONS lost their hegemony, their Gov was busy playing Miniputt while their OPFOR was chasing FA contacts.

It's not winning when your shooting fish in barrel. So it's not bored of winning but bored of taking advantage and trolling everyone on forums plastering writing "news articles".

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1 hour ago, Deulos said:

It's not winning when your shooting fish in barrel. So it's not bored of winning but bored of taking advantage and trolling everyone on forums plastering writing "news articles".

I believe you will find that the GOONS hunger for posting is infinite.

Moreover, if anything, CNGOONS1 was an aberration, there have been plenty of successful long term goon groups that maintained dominant positions, see: Goonswarm.

We are part of a proud tradition; an empire which has colonized hundreds of different worlds.  We have found this world to our liking, and this party is just getting started.

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10 minutes ago, Contra Calculus said:

We will never be able to do $10k worth of damage here like we could in EVE though :(

I mean if you convert this wars total damage against what Alex has credits valued as (15 mil) this war would cost $23,500 in credits to repair all damage. Obviously not realistic but the conversion is there.

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7 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I think that take on things says more about you than us.

It doesn't. Having less on paper allies while being able to build a large coalition if needed historically has been a way to justify ganging up on people who have more paper but are less potent militarily.

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56 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

Just to clarify and restate, the justification, at least for Chaos, was that the then-three-times-our-size BK sphere was going to slam us on our rebuild post Surf's Up. We had solid reasoning for believing that prior to this current war happening and we've had it confirmed since by several sources since. Our motivation in this war was not "glory" or an easy win but for protection and self-preservation. You can call BK sphere the worse fighters (although I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate you saying that) but it matters little how good the other fighters are when they're making an offensive 3 to 1 attack on a beaten down sphere. We (Chaos) knew it wasn't something we could do by ourselves in the state we were in or the numbers we had and therefore, it seemed a dumb idea not to take people up on their offers when they were presented to us.

Following the start of the war, I was very forthcoming with your ally in t$ about our goals when they asked and tried to make it clear this coalition was a temporary partnership that we had no interest in rekindling once the war had ended, even following the hit on Guardian/Grumpy. I did all that because I believed t$ when they said they wouldn't be extending past Guardian/Grumpy and so I responded in kind by trying to provide your sphere both in that discussion and publicly on the OWF with reassurance we wouldn't be escalating things and ammunition to use against me should I go back on my word.

So yes, with all that in mind, I think you continually dismissing it as a move made purely for an easy win (which is insane considering the state we started the war in)/saying we were just going for a gang bang on BK sphere, claiming we intending to escalate the fight to you, and stating that we are buddy buddy with just about everyone, including your own allies, showcases one of the following:

  • You're completely ignorant on our FA, goals, and motivators and default to thinking the absolute worst case scenario of us in every situation because you don't trust us
  • You have a terrible network of sources and/or are easily led/riled up
  • You're purposefully ignoring and/or manipulating the facts in favor of your own narrative and goals

Or some combination thereof, which is probably the most likely. And, you know what, fair enough on the first thing. I mean, you've made it obvious you don't trust us and you and your gov have made no sincere attempts to talk to us at all in the last year so of course you don't understand us. The lack of communication combined with the statements you've made in regards to how you believe we operate and what our goals are both during and preceding this war makes it all the more apparent that you don't get it. But considering just how incredibly off-kilter your claims have consistently been, I'm inclined to believe the latter two play a more significant role in how you approach FA than you care to admit publicly.

You didn't go to war with just your sphere.  The screen released was from May, so if your justification is based on them plotting to hit you before Surf's Up, then that's something else to say they'd hit you right after as well. You haven't revealed any insider knowledge of BK and co planning to hit you that wasn't tied to Rainbow.

When I'm talking about less potent militarily, I'm referring to it vs your coalition KETOG/Chaos/Rose together.  A large inexperienced group that hasn't coordinated together won't really do well if it's on the defensive, and that has always played out. As far as I saw in the original plan leaked, they didn't see it in the terms you describe as a 3 on 1 gangbang, so obviously they're self-aware and know the limitations of their capacities.

It was not really much of an assurance to me given it'd be the 2nd time you've worked with them in the same year. 

It was an easy of a win as you could get. Your infra was low and you could use that to fight on a much better terms against full infra lower city opponents. I don't know your timetable for escalation but more than one person that interacted with you directly detected a palpable hostility and they had no reason to mislead me about you or rile me up because they had no ill will towards you. The idea has always been if you could get BK locked down and out of the way, there'd be nothing stopping you and whoever your co-conspirators would be from doing it. 

There is no reason to trust you. You've been super confident since you formed Chaos and the suspicious circumstances surrounding it and the FA in the lead up has made it clear you had certain objectives in mind.  It's your right to do whatever you feel is in your interest, but I don't have any reason to enable you to win outright. There is simply nothing else out there  realistically that could have happened short of the two spheres breaking up into smaller parts themselves or a different curbstomp on one of them which would have been the same thing they hoped to avoid.  There is a limited field for potential action and the biggest target out there would be us in the event of a BKsphere loss. Anything else would be hopelessly naive to assume. You can take it personally, but we have no reason to trust anyone in KETOG either, you just gave the most reason in terms of outward expressions of hostility and there were more common contacts between us while they were relatively quiet so it comes down to a choice in target selection. We had no common goals with either of you, so conflict was always more likely.

 

Edited by Roquentin
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1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

You didn't go to war with just your sphere.  The screen released was from May, so if your justification is based on them plotting to hit you before Surf's Up, then that's something else to say they'd hit you right after as well. You haven't revealed any insider knowledge of BK and co planning to hit you that wasn't tied to Rainbow.

I have, actually. Several times.

 

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

When I'm talking about less potent militarily, I'm referring to it vs your coalition KETOG/Chaos/Rose together.  A large inexperienced group that hasn't coordinated together won't really do well if it's on the defensive, and that has always played out. As far as I saw in the original plan leaked, they didn't see it in the terms you describe as a 3 on 1 gangbang, so obviously they're self-aware and know the limitations of their capacities.

BKsphere vs Chaos, which was the plan laid out in the leaks, would have been a 3 on 1 gangbang no matter how you slice it. Experience doesn't much matter if you outnumber them 3 to 1 at the start and have first strike advantage.

 

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

It was not really much of an assurance to me given it'd be the 2nd time you've worked with them in the same year. 

Second time working with who? I haven't worked with Rose or KETOGG at all in the last year and have fought both.

 

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

It was an easy of a win as you could get. Your infra was low and you could use that to fight on a much better terms against full infra lower city opponents. I don't know your timetable for escalation but more than one person that interacted with you directly detected a palpable hostility and they had no reason to mislead me about you or rile me up because they had no ill will towards you. The idea has always been if you could get BK locked down and out of the way, there'd be nothing stopping you and whoever your co-conspirators would be from doing it. 

We can agree to disagree on that. We were not at all confident we would be successful and there were many arguments at the start of the war within our coalition about how to proceed as a result. Our success at the beginning came as a total surprise and was only really possible because of the way the counters entered. As for the rest, I am 100% confident in my knowledge that your claim is completely untrue. And the biggest giveaway is your continued use of words like "detect" and "tone" instead of any actual evidence. You can feel free to parrot your argument but there was never any attempt to swing towards you guys from us this war.

 

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

There is no reason to trust you. You've been super confident since you formed Chaos and the suspicious circumstances surrounding it and the FA in the lead up has made it clear you had certain objectives in mind.  It's your right to do whatever you feel is in your interest, but I don't have any reason to enable you to win outright. There is simply nothing else out there  realistically that could have happened short of the two spheres breaking up into smaller parts themselves or a different curbstomp on one of them which would have been the same thing they hoped to avoid.  There is a limited field for potential action and the biggest target out there would be us in the event of a BKsphere loss. Anything else would be hopelessly naive to assume. You can take it personally, but we have no reason to trust anyone in KETOG either, you just gave the most reason in terms of outward expressions of hostility and there were more common contacts between us while they were relatively quiet so it comes down to a choice in target selection. We had no common goals with either of you, so conflict was always more likely.

Not sure what you were seeing in my supposed confidence or what the "suspicious circumstances" were. That was a risky move for us and anyone involved in the discussions with me could probably tell you all the doubts and concerns I had as I hemmed and hawed over everything. And sure, I had objectives in mind and there were things we discussed as a sphere and I've made no efforts to deny their existence but the overall goal was to make things interesting for our membership and start fresh. I wanted a clean slate for us following Knightfall, which you saw me state in the leaked announcement to my membership. But if you're referring to those leaked discussions from Sphinx regarding hitting IQ, the motivation behind that was to work towards achieving minispheres and we saw that grouping as an obstacle. Once you split, we saw that objective as already having been made obsolete and so we began to work on new ideas together. Additionally, that idea wasn't going to work as planned because there was some resentment from when we split and TCW signing BK and Guardian and Grumpy hitting us support that.

In regards to all the claims you've made about our supposed plans this war though, saying you think you would have been a target down the line if BKsphere fell like you're now saying (if I understand correctly) is a much different statement than saying you thought we'd swing around and hit you this war. Which is it you believe, that we were an immediate threat or a long term one? At any rate though, I knew you didn't trust us and that's why I gave your sphere everything you needed to drag us through the mud if we went back on our word. You didn't have to just trust what we were saying, you had ammunition.

Edited by Nizam Adrienne
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Somehow Inst and Noctis found a competitor in their group.  Didn't know Roq would join their ranks.

(Just FYI Roq, KT/TGH has fought TKR more than BK and your precious NPO in recent years, so what the frick are you getting at?)

Edited by Buorhann
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16 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Somehow Inst and Noctis found a competitor in their group.  Didn't know Roq would join their ranks.

(Just FYI Roq, KT/TGH has fought TKR more than BK and your precious NPO in recent years, so what the frick are you getting at?)

So glad we can keep fighting you.  By the way, there's nothing really conspiratorial in the above, and fyi the pollyannish picture I was being sold is you could just be rolled all by yourself after you rebuilt as long as it didn't help BK and avoided hurting Chaos so keep huffing and puffing about me all you want.

Not by choice on both occasions. They hit you and then you used them to discharge boredom because you didn't want to hit BK on your own.  I'd say we'd be about equal by now. We can drag the war out enough so we surpass you, though.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I have, actually. Several times.

 

BKsphere vs Chaos, which was the plan laid out in the leaks, would have been a 3 on 1 gangbang no matter how you slice it. Experience doesn't much matter if you outnumber them 3 to 1 at the start and have first strike advantage.

Um you're saying they planned it both before and after Surf's Up.  The 3-1 advantage is usually based on nationcount and the nationcounts of actual involved alliances in this war were shown earlier to not be reflective of that level of advantage.

19 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

 

Second time working with who? I haven't worked with Rose or KETOGG at all in the last year and have fought both.

The plans you already had to cooperate earlier in the year which have been previously acknowledgedI.

19 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

 

We can agree to disagree on that. We were not at all confident we would be successful and there were many arguments at the start of the war within our coalition about how to proceed as a result. Our success at the beginning came as a total surprise and was only really possible because of the way the counters entered. As for the rest, I am 100% confident in my knowledge that your claim is completely untrue. And the biggest giveaway is your continued use of words like "detect" and "tone" instead of any actual evidence. You can feel free to parrot your argument but there was never any attempt to swing towards you guys from us this war.

The main premise is that BK would be out of the way and it is easier to win against one than against both. I'm using tone for some conversations and outright plans/concepts for other ones.  It doesn't matter if it's this war or right after. It's simply easier to divide and conquer by having one down first.

19 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

 

Not sure what you were seeing in my supposed confidence or what the "suspicious circumstances" were. That was a risky move for us and anyone involved in the discussions with me could probably tell you all the doubts and concerns I had as I hemmed and hawed over everything. And sure, I had objectives in mind and there were things we discussed as a sphere and I've made no efforts to deny their existence but the overall goal was to make things interesting for our membership and start fresh. I wanted a clean slate for us following Knightfall, which you saw me state in the leaked announcement to my membership. But if you're referring to those leaked discussions from Sphinx regarding hitting IQ, the motivation behind that was to work towards achieving minispheres and we saw that grouping as an obstacle. Once you split, we saw that objective as already having been made obsolete and so we began to work on new ideas together. Additionally, that idea wasn't going to work as planned because there was some resentment from when we split and TCW signing BK and Guardian and Grumpy hitting us support that.

There were also the original leaks of you maintaining ties with TCW from your own forums which were seen as suspect. They were handwaved away super fast. In the Sphinx leaks, the motivations instead of minispheres appear to be that your main dispute at the time was with IQ alliances rather than CoS which SRD had.  TCW not accepting the covert alignment wasn't planned yeah, but that was based on them not wanting to be a secret partner.

Well the way the people that interacted with you at the time took it was you expected to win with Chaos and that it was a winning move. The screenshots that showed up later also seemed to indicate that in terms of seeing it as your best opportunity to turn things around rather than it being a huge gamble. If you saw it differently at the time, then it wasn't evident.

19 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

In regards to all the claims you've made about our supposed plans this war though, saying you think you would have been a target down the line if BKsphere fell like you're now saying (if I understand correctly) is a much different statement than saying you thought we'd swing around and hit you this war. Which is it you believe, that we were an immediate threat or a long term one? At any rate though, I knew you didn't trust us and that's why I gave your sphere everything you needed to drag us through the mud if we went back on our word. You didn't have to just trust what we were saying, you had ammunition.

The idea wasn't exclusive to this war. It could have been peace out and then turn around similar to Surf's Up since you'd have the momentum. it could be either.  I don't know of the exact details you gave to anyone you interacted with as I wasn't involved in the talks anyone had with you but if you just said this war, it's easy to skate around. 

 

Edited by Roquentin
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21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Um you're saying they planned it both before and after Surf's Up.  The 3-1 advantage is usually based on nationcount and the nationcounts of actual involved alliances in this war were shown earlier to not be reflective of that level of advantage.

Sort of. I'm saying the plans didn't disappear after we got hit by KETOGG. We were inundated all throughout that war with rumors and intel that they intended to hit us or KETOGG or both and the final nail in the coffin was the Rainbow leak because it was concrete proof predating all the other intel we had showing there was a solid plan in place to hit us. I had no intention of twiddling my thumbs and allowing us to be dogpiled on our rebuild. Both Leo and Sphinx have publicly stated we had a valid CB so if you don't believe me, there's that. And the 3 to 1 advantage refers to BK sphere vs. Chaos, which was their original plan.

 

21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

The plans you already had to cooperate earlier in the year which have been previously acknowledgedI.

I'm lost. Is this in reference to the Sphinx leaks again? 

 

21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

The main premise is that BK would be out of the way and it is easier to win against one than against both. I'm using tone for some conversations and outright plans/concepts for other ones.  It doesn't matter if it's this war or right after. It's simply easier to divide and conquer by having one down first.

I disagree. I think it matters quite a bit whether you thought we were going to attack you during/immediately after this war or several months down the line.

 

21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

There were also the original leaks of you maintaining ties with TCW from your own forums which were seen as suspect. They were handwaved away super fast. In the Sphinx leaks, the motivations instead of minispheres appear to be that your main dispute at the time was with IQ alliances rather than CoS which SRD had.  TCW not accepting the covert alignment wasn't planned yeah, but that was based on them not wanting to be a secret partner.

Ties with TCW were not going to be maintained long term or be a secret, as evidenced by what I outlined in the Chaos announcement on the OWF. The membership announcement getting leaked led to a lot of assumptions and preconceptions about what that part meant but it was only ever going to be a 30 day temporary protection to give them time settle in a new sphere and then it would be ended. It's too bad Sphinx didn't see fit to leak that bit ;) 

 

21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Well the way the people that interacted with you at the time took it was you expected to win with Chaos and that it was a winning move. The screenshots that showed up later also seemed to indicate that in terms of seeing it as your best opportunity to turn things around rather than it being a huge gamble. If you saw it differently at the time, then it wasn't evident.

Not sure what you mean by "win" but I suspect we have different definitions. I saw it as a "winning" move in that it was a new start for us post-Knightfall and an opportunity to better dictate our own path instead of having it dictated for us. That doesn't mean it wasn't risky or a gamble. It was a massive change for us in more ways than one.

 

21 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

The idea wasn't exclusive to this war. It could have been peace out and then turn around similar to Surf's Up since you'd have the momentum. it could be either.  I don't know of the exact details you gave to anyone you interacted with as I wasn't involved in the talks anyone had with you but if you just said this war, it's easy to skate around. 

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere with this narrative, I still don't really understand how you arrived at this conclusion considering how dead set I was against entering against you during or immediately after this war and how vocal I was about it. I would not have said to anyone I wanted to attack you because that was not a reflection of my thoughts on the matter. And for clarification, since it's come up a couple times, the only reason I keep saying "this war" is to differentiate things from the former IQ plans since that seems to be a point of confusion for people.

The conversation with Phoenix was my only discussion afaik on the war and you guys and that was entirely regarding a scenario where you hit us. What I intended to get across in my response to her was basically "if it happens, it happens, not much I can do about it if it comes to pass but we'll give it our all." If you want to read into it and make arguments about my tone, that's your prerogative but honestly, besides that conversation with her, I don't recall discussing any scenario of a war between the two of us, especially not one where I planned to go offensive against you.

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11 hours ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

That being said, this GOONS group has a mix of both CN1, CN2, and EVE GOONS to name a few. This group of gov within GOONS should rightfully scare the lot of you as we have some of the most competent browser GOONS ever put together. 

Do y'all have a Miner Corp.?

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