Will t$ protect their protectorate?

[Comrade Marx]

This capitalist bureaucracy is killing you, @Avakael. 

[Salvarity]

Leo says back to the mines with you. 

[Avakael]

2 minutes ago, Comrade Marx said:

This capitalist bureaucracy is killing you, @Avakael. 

When I die, I hope they turn my ashes into a diamond ring, so Partisan can take me off for some fun one last time.

[Critters]

57 minutes ago, Avakael said:

Did we figure out if those t$ people were going to protect their protectorate yet

I think my question has been answered. They did indeed protect their protectorate. I retract the paper tiger comment. Mods please lock this thread....

[Leopold von Habsburg]

1 hour ago, Avakael said:

I'm still waiting to hear back from @Leopold von Habsburg.

We protected our protectorate.

[Guest Epi]

1

Edited February 17, 2021 by Epi

[Prefonteen]

6 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Here's the issue:  you assume I'm 100% malicious and never say anything in good faith. What's more probable? Shades of gray or the Manichean perspective of "Roq lied to Sisyphus and Sisyphus was angelic throughout the whole thing" ?

Straight up I never agreed to a de facto NAP with TKR/KT/TGH/CoS/etc.  At the time, Sisyphus said even a misfire would count as an expansion reason and there were supposedly some rogue spy ops. My understanding was always it would be tS limiting itself and us covering initially and we could do other stuff if they didn't get countered. The affiliates thing was added after the fact and not all of "affiliates" knew about it. It was just a way for us to get some targets. I didn't realize he had essentially tried to put us under lock and key and I tried to plead the case for expansion, and everyone else saw some wiggle room for expansion or that only tS had really committed to that and the other alliances involved were for expansion or amenable to some sort of compromise. When I made long arguments that I didn't want to repeat what Paragon did in Oktoberfest, I was basically told that I have to listen to him because I lost all these years to people like him and he knew how to win. I exhibited a lot of patience in trying to reach a compromise and most people in that situation would have to told screw off with that line. It was clear to me that he saw us as a junior partner to be !@#$slapped and I was going to have to take the situation into my own hands as I had been completely trapped.

I don't remember saying that personally. I said if they considered themselves to be minispheres and disconnected, then it wasn't the same stuff they claimed to do.

I can give you the response. I made a deal with Partisan and there was some delay in its implementation and the deal was we'd get to do the Knightfall war and I'd do a sphere with him after. It was never I had to hate BK or help the next war be against BK and have them dismantled.  That wasn't the next war plan at all.  Partisan disappeared and then we tried to hammer out an arrangement with his successor and we reached an understanding that if the BK sphere was to be completely dismantled in a war by KETOG/Chaos, we could intervene.  BK was not party to that agreement. The very thing was not to reward a collaboration of KETOG/Chaos.

The fact that we'd prefer BKsphere not falling completely over KERTCHTOGG victory is due to the historical issues and a balance of power argument. The logs told us we'd be in potential danger if BK was locked down and that they were counting on tS to box us in, so when it happened exactly like that, I did what I needed to do. It was a domino falling. The way Chaos was formed was in such a manner where we were pretty upset and tS knew our feelings on Chaos.  They just no longer mattered to them because they wanted to restore their relations with Chaos after Kayser disappeared.

You can't use our deal in an argument without mentioning that from the beginning of those negotiations I made the exclusion of BK a prerequisite to even starting talks.

[Buorhann]

>reward a collaboration of Chaos/KETOG

You mean by having a plan leak out publicly?

We were happily burning each other's Infra, military, and spies.  Not our fault you numbskulls decided to poke your business into ours.

 

The only possible danger N$O was in, was strictly from KETOG (Not Chaos) due to hitting Guardian/Grumpy.  That's it.  That's all.  Had N$O remained out, there was literally no talks at all of you guys.  Afterall, we took your word that you weren't involved in their plan.  Yet all of your actions show otherwise.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Buorhann

[Roquentin]

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

You can't use our deal in an argument without mentioning that from the beginning of those negotiations I made the exclusion of BK a prerequisite to even starting talks.

They weren't part of it. Next. What wasn't part of the deal was the near immediate attempt to restore TKR to power by CoS.

1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

>reward a collaboration of Chaos/KETOG

You mean by having a plan leak out publicly?

We were happily burning each other's Infra, military, and spies.  Not our fault you numbskulls decided to poke your business into ours.

 

The only possible danger N$O was in, was strictly from KETOG (Not Chaos) due to hitting Guardian/Grumpy.  That's it.  That's all.  Had N$O remained out, there was literally no talks at all of you guys.  Afterall, we took your word that you weren't involved in their plan.  Yet all of your actions show otherwise.

It was anticipated as a possibility beforehand in discussions as the  most likely collaboration as the blocs shared people who were close together. 

I'm not talking about N$O. Like I said I'm sure TKR is super fond of Sisyphus, Leopold, etc and don't mind HS. I'm talking NPO and the prediction was too much of a risk for me to take. 

I've been trying to explain to you the entire time there was a consensus on hitting KETOG at some point as an independent plan. They just didn't want to help BK and wanted BK to die and they didn't want to hurt their friends in Chaos. They've played both sides the entire time in terms of it being all my idea and reconciling with you and while also retaining support from other people by saying they don't like KETOG. It's one or the other. That's where I draw the line and there has been a painful lack of accountability.   When Sisyphus had all his fun at my expense, I was livid and he never bothered to come down from it.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Roquentin

[Kastor]

As a 3rd party, I don’t think NPO not defending tS is wrong here. I think Roq has a firm leg to stand on.

 

I think hitting their allies is wrong though. They should’ve just stayed out. Even if it meant BK getting rolled.

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

I'm not talking about N$O. Like I said I'm sure TKR is super fond of Sisyphus, Leopold, etc and don't mind HS. I'm talking NPO and the prediction was too much of a risk for me to take.

As I said time and time again:

1. We had no plan to hit you during this war.

2. We were adamantly against hitting you during this war.

3. The current leadership had nothing major against you until you started spreading lies and nonsense about us.

 

I have said literally nothing about attacking NPO at all. My prior plans were solely about IQ and those ended once you split. And, honestly, you were the less threatening half of the IQ duo once you split because you didn't threaten escalation every other week or make it obvious that you were gunning for us.

Getting back to the main point though, the only person I discussed a hypothetical war concerning NPO/t$ during this war with phrased it as if you all attacked us, not the other way around and I gave an honest, exasperated answer. You have no proof of us wanting to attack you because there is none.

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

As I said time and time again:

1. We had no plan to hit you during this war.

2. We were adamantly against hitting you during this war.

3. The current leadership had nothing major against you until you started spreading lies and nonsense about us.

 

I have said literally nothing about attacking NPO at all. My prior plans were solely about IQ and those ended once you split. And, honestly, you were the less threatening half of the IQ duo once you split because you didn't threaten escalation every other week or make it obvious that you were gunning for us.

Getting back to the main point though, the only person I discussed a hypothetical war concerning NPO/t$ during this war with phrased it as if you all attacked us, not the other way around and I gave an honest, exasperated answer. You have no proof of us wanting to attack you because there is none.

Remember when Adrienne vehemently denied there was any logs of her discussing a war with NPO. The truth always comes out. All war plans are hypothetical until the opportunity arises. 

[Shadowthrone]

47 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Remember when Adrienne vehemently denied there was any logs of her discussing a war with NPO. The truth always comes out. All war plans are hypothetical until the opportunity arises. 

P much. I mean it'd be a lie to state that alliances don't do threat assessments and target selection. Easier to try and hold a moral high ground, rather than accept their war took a 180 because of it. 

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Remember when Adrienne vehemently denied there was any logs of her discussing a war with NPO. The truth always comes out. All war plans are hypothetical until the opportunity arises. 

I already addressed those and again, not NPO but IQ pre-split, which I even mentioned again in the post you quoted. There is a difference, or should have been, between IQ and NPO but that doesn't matter to you guys.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Nizam Adrienne

[Tiberius]

26 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I already addressed those and again, not NPO but IQ pre-split, which I even mentioned again in the post you quoted. There is a difference, or should have been, between IQ and NPO but that doesn't matter to you guys.

No you just stated in your previous post about talking about a hypothetical war on NPO/t$ so that can't be about IQ. You've always denied any logs existed. It was also a hypothetical situation where t$/NPO would attack. Which happened (not TKR directly but alliances in the coalition) So your hypothetical situation became a reality. So if someone has those logs of you discussing an attack on NPO/t$ if such a situation would happen, then it's common sense they would take those as a threat. Perception is everything, so while you may not have actually followed through with that plan, doesn't mean the ones implicated are going to trust you. 

[Adrienne]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No you just stated in your previous post about talking about a hypothetical war on NPO/t$ so that can't be about IQ. You've always denied any logs existed. 

Two different things, friend.

[Prefonteen]

Friend! 

[Tiberius]

13 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

Two different things, friend.

Been found out you have, friend.

[Kevanovia]

7 hours ago, Roquentin said:

I'm not talking about N$O. Like I said I'm sure TKR is super fond of Sisyphus, Leopold, etc and don't mind HS. I'm talking NPO and the prediction was too much of a risk for me to take. 

 

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

No you just stated in your previous post about talking about a hypothetical war on NPO/t$

Your spin is off-kilter. On one hand you are saying that TKR is best friends with t$ and planned a war with them on NPO. On the other hand you are saying that TKR was planning a war on t$. 

To the meat of it, the logs that were leaked were about BK/N$O actually planning a war - not a hypothetical. So it is rather silly for you to chastise Adrienne about theoretically talking out how a war would look like if Chaos were attacked.

Can’t say I’m surprised, contradicting theories have been the staple of IQ this war.

 

Also saying that TKR is fond of t$ = Hilarious.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Kevanovia

[Prefonteen]

20 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

 

Your spin is off-kilter. On one hand you are saying that TKR is best friends with t$ and planned a war with them on NPO. On the other hand you are saying that TKR was planning a war on t$. 

To the meat of it, the logs that were leaked were about BK/N$O actually planning a war - not a hypothetical. So it is rather silly for you to chastise Adrienne about theoretically talking out how a war would look like if Chaos were attacked.

Can’t say I’m surprised, contradicting theories have been the staple of IQ this war.

 

Also saying that TKR is fond of t$ = Hilarious.

Wait what

 

You're saying Tkris not fond of tS!!???!!!! 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Kevanovia said:

 

Your spin is off-kilter. On one hand you are saying that TKR is best friends with t$ and planned a war with them on NPO. On the other hand you are saying that TKR was planning a war on t$. 

To the meat of it, the logs that were leaked were about BK/N$O actually planning a war - not a hypothetical. So it is rather silly for you to chastise Adrienne about theoretically talking out how a war would look like if Chaos were attacked.

Can’t say I’m surprised, contradicting theories have been the staple of IQ this war.

 

Also saying that TKR is fond of t$ = Hilarious.

You've already proven your coalition can plan a war against each other and be friends. There is no spin on my side. Adrienne denied there ever being logs of plans to hit NPO post IQ. She has then slipped up in that post by saying she had planned how to tackle NPO/t$ in a hypothetical situation of NPO/t$ joining the war aggressively. The same type of hypothetical situation BK had planned for to roll chaos. Its all about the opportunity presenting itself to turn a hypothetical situation into a real situation. Sure you had coalition talks after that where you say you all decided not to act against NPO/t$ but the proof is there now that at least TKR via Adrienne had a plan of how to attack NPO/t$ if we were to enter. I suppose it hurts that you can't now run around saying it's bullshit that TKR had a plan to hit NPO/t$ post IQ. 

[Spaceman Thrax]

Whelp I am back from vacation and it's amusing to see people still bothering to reply to roq's samey nonsense for some reason.

Here's some footage of anyone genuine responding to Roq's increasingly-deranged narratives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo

So what else is new. Cheating anime nazis, you say? Great stuff, great stuff. Stay classy, IQ sphere. Missed you!

[Shiho Nishizumi]

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

So what else is new. Cheating anime nazis, you say? Great stuff, great stuff. Stay classy, IQ sphere. Missed you!

You forgot NPO hitting their ally's prot in defence of a co belligerent they ostensibly have no ties with.

[Spaceman Thrax]

4 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

You forgot NPO hitting their ally's prot in defence of a co belligerent they ostensibly have no ties with.

Tbh, that one is more in line with my expectations of them than "defending cheaters who are also nazis because it benefits their war effort".

One is being mustache-twirling in game disingenuous, which is pretty much in line with my expectations of them. The other is, actually, a new low imo.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Spaceman Thrax

[Shiho Nishizumi]

That's fair.