ArcKnox Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, REAP3R said: Are we still on about this fake war nonsense? We added t$ was also secretly colluding with KETOGG and Chaos 2 Quote Praise Dio. Every !@#$ing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ArcKnox said: We added t$ was also secretly colluding with KETOGG and Chaos That's not a speculative thing with the latter at the least. They at the minimum went out of their way to make up with the former as soon as they could. It got denied hardcore by Sisyphus but it's what happened. To paraphrase "Sorry guys. We've been deceived all along by Roq who ruined everything interesting that could ever happened and had no clue and have been manipulated all this time. It's a real shame he ruined everything. Best of luck fellas" and from the other side "Please beige our nations." "you got it pal" Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Roquentin said: "preventing hegemony by beating down on the losers of most wars." "away from good ol boys club" while unifying the traditional elites. 1984: we've hit it. Arken's Law has been reached. I also love this analogy when it's presented from a Faux Communist Command Economy Alliance with a "everyone else is out to get me" leader mentality. Where's Snowball, Napoleon? What did you do to him? Edited October 4, 2019 by Pasky Darkfire 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said: Arken's Law has been reached. I also love this analogy when it's presented from a Faux Communist Command Economy Alliance with a "everyone else is out to get me" leader mentality. Where's Snowball, Napoleon? What did you do to him? well I am glad someone finally admits we're not Communist. You figured it out! It's simply a totalitarian government happens to control the economy as the primary investor with no endgoal of democratization or statelessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Roquentin said: You wanted to win while having the "minispheres" as a rhetorical tool. If it just so happens the minispheres always come together to help each other against the real bad guys(tm), then it's not anything other than a hegemony. tS pulling out killed any minispheres because they had decided internally they were done and they had told people there too many times that they were entirely innocent. If anything tS's movements have all but ensured the death of any real distinct spheres and helped foster the reunification of an old boys club. No. Npo going in killed any minispheres. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: No. Npo going in killed any minispheres. Nah, minispheres was dead when Chaos & Ketog teamed up. Those who truly want minispheres don't have the balls to play the mini sphere game. In games such as this when there is always scheming and grudges, Politics will always revert to bi-polarity. All you need is one leak, that one sphere plans to roll more than 1 other and we will simply swing straight back to bi-polarity. Minispheres will only work under a framework of rules that all alliances agree to and that is never going to happen. Likewise when you have a bi-polarity of hate between two groups of alliances you are never going to get mini spheres. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: Nah, minispheres was dead when Chaos & Ketog teamed up. Those who truly want minispheres don't have the balls to play the mini sphere game. In games such as this when there is always scheming and grudges, Politics will always revert to bi-polarity. All you need is one leak, that one sphere plans to roll more than 1 other and we will simply swing straight back to bi-polarity. Minispheres will only work under a framework of rules that all alliances agree to and that is never going to happen. Likewise when you have a bi-polarity of hate between two groups of alliances you are never going to get mini spheres. BK/NPO planned to roll Chaos/KETOG, not the other way around. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Kevanovia said: BK/NPO planned to roll Chaos/KETOG, not the other way around. Wrong. Both Chaos and KETOG wanted to roll The Covenant/BK. KETOG was more proactive and attempted to get outside support. The desire KETOG had to roll CovBK was not conveyed to BK or they would have had an ironclad CB before. The only possibility for cooperation between NPO and KETOG was rolling BK, which we pointed out we did not want to do as it wouldn't ensure enough fighting in the upper tier which had consolidated in and around KETOG. At the same time, tS feigned some interest in hitting KETOG which changed into rolling BK when Kayser disappeared. Chaos and BK have always had it out for each other, so a war was inevitable since the day Chaos was formed. The day TCW-BK was signed, a war was inevitable in terms of TCW-TKR. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kevanovia said: BK/NPO planned to roll Chaos/KETOG, not the other way around. KETOG planned to roll BK and worked to try and get the numbers for that. Ultimately it doesn't matter, because minispheres will never work, as I wrote in the post you quoted. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRBOOTY Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) I found it hard to believe when Kastor was claiming that NPO was using BK to make themselves even more powerful, and I still don’t know if it’s intentional, but it is very much happening. Bk has taken 24 billion more in damage than NPO, and that’s only going to increase thanks to the newest front. NPO could attack the Ssssssyndicate but aren’t. Even though they’ve already declared the Syndicate to no longer be allies. Even though it couldn’t possibly make their public perception worse. I wonder why this is... BK is so obsessed with their desire to beat TKR and show how strong they are that they’re cutting off their nose to spite their face. Edited October 4, 2019 by MRBOOTY Quote MR BOOTY IN DA HOUSE http://i.imgur.com/R5WWAB1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Wrong. Both Chaos and KETOG wanted to roll The Covenant/BK. KETOG was more proactive and attempted to get outside support. The desire KETOG had to roll CovBK was not conveyed to BK or they would have had an ironclad CB before. The only possibility for cooperation between NPO and KETOG was rolling BK, which we pointed out we did not want to do as it wouldn't ensure enough fighting in the upper tier which had consolidated in and around KETOG. At the same time, tS feigned some interest in hitting KETOG which changed into rolling BK when Kayser disappeared. Chaos and BK have always had it out for each other, so a war was inevitable since the day Chaos was formed. The day TCW-BK was signed, a war was inevitable in terms of TCW-TKR. I can speak on behalf of Chaos, not KETOG. However - From where we stand: All you have is conjecture on what war would “eventually happen”, we have cold hard proof that there was a war being planned against us. If you want to make KETOG out to be the bad guys, and they wanted to roll BK (providing you have proof). Then that’s your prerogative. But to say that t$ and Chaos colluded with them beforehand to bring down BK and NPO is absolutely ridiculous and has a basis in nothing other than paranoia. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) It's not conjecture. There were several disputes between Chaos and BK like the Valinor raid situation and CoS' hostility to coalition members in Knightfall. Just because it's in your interests to have everyone pretend that it was all one-sided and that there wasn't a desire to build a massive coalition to roll BK/Cov and fixate on it doesn't mean that is the case. This isn't a court of law. A strategically timed leak will rarely happen. The only times a war was telegraphed via openly posted leaks beforehand was the Tenages thing in 2015, Squeegee-Boki in 2018, and this Rainbow thing. I've said multiple things everyone knows happened without giving the exact logs or screens, and this is something I've done in the past so I don't really care because I have the courage of my convictions. 20 minutes ago, MRBOOTY said: I found it hard to believe when Kastor was claiming that NPO was using BK to make themselves even more powerful, and I still don’t know if it’s intentional, but it is very much happening. Bk has taken 24 billion more in damage than NPO, and that’s only going to increase thanks to the newest front. NPO could attack the Ssssssyndicate but aren’t. Even though they’ve already declared the Syndicate to no longer be allies. Even though it couldn’t possibly make their public perception worse. I wonder why this is... BK is so obsessed with their desire to beat TKR and show how strong they are that they’re cutting off their nose to spite their face. So you want us to hit tS? Is that your final answer? Also are you being intentionally obtuse? BK didn't sell infra initially. We sold it off after the first few days so our damage is lower and we did more radical selling of infra in many cases so our damage will be lower. idk how Kastor could be right when the supposition of us prolonging the war to hurt BK was because we had tS behind us. We didn't have tS behind us and tS hit BK. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin edit for seriousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcKnox Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Everyone knows roq is a serial liar checkmate atheists Quote Praise Dio. Every !@#$ing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, CandyShi said: I could also say that NPO is a pedophile ring, and have the same amount of proof as you did right there. No thats not an OOC attack, its a dumbed down explanation of what burden of proof is. Our CB is iron-clad, given the precedent of rolling whoever plots to roll you as well as it being leaked by (TCW? Someone on your side). t$ is justified because they **publicly announced** their terms of war and **you objectively broke them**. Your “accusation” is speculation with no proof to stand on. First you accuse two blocs that dislike each other of colluding, then you accuse your own ally of colluding. This would be like Pakistan and India colluding with China to nuke North Korea, not going off their power but their foreign relations. No. The burden of proof doesn't exist for common knowledge that people will believe or shoot down based on their affiliations. An OOC claim is an entirely different thing altogether. It is objective fact that tS was in communication with Chaos. It is objective fact that Chaos and KT/TGH had previously colluded despite being separate blocs so there was a pattern already. Your counter-examples are just not the same at all. Here's some more common knowledge as well: FR wanted to roll Chaos because of Soup Kitchen. This was forgiven when FR betrayed Covenant because it was convenient for Chaos/KETOG to incorporate the FR elements. I don't have to prove a damn thing when it's obvious. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, Roquentin said: like the Valinor raid situation I mean. That was an act of BK aggression and if I recall, they got spanked. So... Wouldn't that give them more reason to plot against us? I sort of laughed it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Pasky Darkfire said: I mean. That was an act of BK aggression and if I recall, they got spanked. So... Wouldn't that give them more reason to plot against us? I sort of laughed it off. As far as I know, Ripper was livid and it strengthened CoS' dislike of BK even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Roquentin said: It is objective fact that Chaos and KT/TGH had previously colluded despite being separate blocs When? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Shiho Nishizumi said: When? I mean it was before that it was earlier in the year, so when Chaos was forming. There hasn't been a denial, but rather that the cooperation was only because IQ and that all friendliness between TKR and GOB/Guardian simply melted away after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Roquentin said: I mean it was before that it was earlier in the year, so when Chaos was forming. There hasn't been a denial, but rather that the cooperation was only because IQ and that all friendliness between TKR and GOB/Guardian simply melted away after that. So, your issue is talks about IQ violating your notion of minispheres (because "collusion"), even though the concept wasn't fully in place because IQ still existed. TKR being friendly with Grumpy/Guardian doesn't change the fact that they (Grumpy/Guardian) hated CoS' guts, doubly so now that they perceived that CoS had replaced them as TKR's allies. And this doesn't even include how some of KT/TGH's members felt about people in Valinor and CoS (and I'm certain that this was reciprocal), and to a lesser extent, TKR, due to 69. To pretend that it was just positive vibes between both of us is simply dishonest. Edited October 4, 2019 by Shiho Nishizumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 37 minutes ago, Roquentin said: It's not conjecture. There were several disputes between Chaos and BK like the Valinor raid situation and CoS' hostility to coalition members in Knightfall. Just because it's in your interests to have everyone pretend that it was all one-sided and that there wasn't a desire to build a massive coalition to roll BK/Cov and fixate on it doesn't mean that is the case. This isn't a court of law. A strategically timed leak will rarely happen. The only times a war was telegraphed via openly posted leaks beforehand was the Tenages thing in 2015, Squeegee-Boki in 2018, and this Rainbow thing. I've said multiple things everyone knows happened without giving the exact logs or screens, and this is something I've done in the past so I don't really care because I have the courage of my convictions. The definition of Conjecture is forming an opinion with incomplete facts. You were not in Chaos, and what you are saying is actually completely different than what actually transpired. So it’s either conjecture or a lie. The coalition and decision to hit BK formed after we found out that BK planned on hitting us. 26 minutes ago, Roquentin said: No. The burden of proof doesn't exist for common knowledge that people will believe or shoot down based on their affiliations. An OOC claim is an entirely different thing altogether. It is objective fact that tS was in communication with Chaos. It is objective fact that Chaos and KT/TGH had previously colluded despite being separate blocs so there was a pattern already. Your counter-examples are just not the same at all. Here's some more common knowledge as well: FR wanted to roll Chaos because of Soup Kitchen. This was forgiven when FR betrayed Covenant because it was convenient for Chaos/KETOG to incorporate the FR elements. I don't have to prove a damn thing when it's obvious. The only time we talked was when IQ was still a thing. At that time IQ was the barrier that needed to be broken in order to have a world of minispheres. Those discussions died when it looked like IQ died. In regards to FR wanting to hit Soup: First of all, it’s adorable. That’s pretty much the extent of it. The animosity was aimed in one direction, and like I said - it was adorable. They were “forgiven” because they know not of what they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: So, your issue is talks about IQ violating your notion of minispheres (because "collusion"), even though the concept wasn't fully in place because IQ still existed. TKR being friendly with Grumpy/Guardian doesn't change the fact that they (Grumpy/Guardian) hated CoS' guts, doubly so now that they perceived that CoS had replaced them as TKR's allies. And this doesn't even include how some of KT/TGH's members felt about people in Valinor and CoS, and to a lesser extent, TKR, due to 69. To pretend that it was just positive vibes between both of us is simply dishonest. You have always claimed to be an isolated minisphere and Chaos claimed the same thing. CoS-Guardian/Grumpy disputes don't run nearly as deep as any issues with BK/NPO. The KT/TGH - CoS/Valinor culture war stuff is and has always been a joke in real terms. The only person whoever took it seriously VMed or you'd have more conscientious objectors. TKR went out of its way to make amends with KT/TGH because they had bigger fish to fry and KT/TGH were fine reconciling. 7 minutes ago, Kevanovia said: The definition of Conjecture is forming an opinion with incomplete facts. You were not in Chaos, and what you are saying is actually completely different than what actually transpired. So it’s either conjecture or a lie. The coalition and decision to hit BK formed after we found out that BK planned on hitting us. The only time we talked was when IQ was still a thing. At that time IQ was the barrier that needed to be broken in order to have a world of minispheres. Those discussions died when it looked like IQ died. In regards to FR wanting to hit Soup: First of all, it’s adorable. That’s pretty much the extent of it. The animosity was aimed in one direction, and like I said - it was adorable. They were “forgiven” because they know not of what they do. So Chaos was just chilling out before Surf's Up and had no political objectives whatsoever despite the friendly relations between Soup and TGH and no one in the two ever talked until the screens came out? lol So here we go, you wanted to go for wholesale slaughter on BK/NPO because it was your main political objective but you accepted the Benedict Arnolds of FR because you don't mind them as much. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiloist II Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I’ve seen more convincing Mexican soap operas than what you’re spewing out, please step it up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Roquentin said: So Chaos was just chilling out before Surf's Up and had no political objectives whatsoever despite the friendly relations between Soup and TGH and no one in the two ever talked until the screens came out? lol So here we go, you wanted to go for wholesale slaughter on BK/NPO because it was your main political objective but you accepted the Benedict Arnolds of FR because you don't mind them as much. What was our next objective? Thunderdome. We were working with NPO about doing something involving micros duking it out. It’s gonna be a blast, looking forward to continuing the project with you post-war. I’m sorry that your government didn’t let you know about it. On your second point: Oranges and Apples. FR/Covenant by themselves weren’t a threat to the future of microspheres or in a situation of being capable of creating a hegemony. On top of that, they apologized. If you apologized, we would likely also let it be water under the bridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Kevanovia said: What was our next objective? Thunderdome. We were working with NPO about doing something involving micros duking it out. It’s gonna be a blast, looking forward to continuing the project with you post-war. I’m sorry that your government didn’t let you know about it. On your second point: Oranges and Apples. FR/Covenant by themselves weren’t a threat to the future of microspheres or in a situation of being capable of creating a hegemony. On top of that, they apologized. If you apologized, we would likely also let it be water under the bridge. So Chaos was never going to fight a real war again and just fund micros to fight? lol. FR were equally wanting to do it. I'm not really interested in an insincere apology since it wasn't a goal to kill minispheres but rather to avoid one side completely trashing another and I already have to admit Clarke did nothing wrong. As FR apologized to save its pixels and cause damage to NPO, I don't want to follow the example of such people. 15 minutes ago, Kiloist II said: I’ve seen more convincing Mexican soap operas than what you’re spewing out, please step it up. It really doesn't even matter what I say at this point. Everyone knows where everyone else stands now. If you don't think it's convincing, too bad. I'm not trying to persuade KERTCHOGG. KERTCHOGG's mind is made up and anything will be viewed in the lens of their "righteous struggle' rather than objective reality. There are a lot of aspects people may find merit in some day when they are more removed from the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, Roquentin said: You have always claimed to be an isolated minisphere and Chaos claimed the same thing. We (KETOGG) are. There's a reason why we only sign people if they have no outwardly ties. We don't want a situation such as that of TFP in this war. 27 minutes ago, Roquentin said: CoS-Guardian/Grumpy disputes don't run nearly as deep as any issues with BK/NPO. The KT/TGH - CoS/Valinor culture war stuff is and has always been a joke in real terms. The only person whoever took it seriously VMed or you'd have more conscientious objectors. TKR went out of its way to make amends with KT/TGH because they had bigger fish to fry and KT/TGH were fine reconciling. I wouldn't underestimate SRD's disdain for CoS if I were you. And those were serious enough to have them roll us alongside TKR and tCW in 69, and us roll them in turn afterwards. And yeah, sometimes people reconsider priorities when another sphere had been trying to interfere since day one, and on top of that, had reached out to other people to have them rolled too. I mean, it's the job of FA to try to have a good standing with other parties. Whichever the reason may be for it. So I don't get what the problem is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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