Hodor Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Roquentin said: It didn't affect what Chaos or KETOG were doing much, but the issue was it wasn't actually about GOB-Guardian, it was about boxing NPO into a position where it couldn't defend its sovereign interests. We weren't aware of how strict Sisyphus would insist on it being because it became problematic when the other side saw it as a beneficial deal for them and rather than a unilateral stance that could be modified if it made sense, it was instead more or less a deal made with KERTCHOGG where they would get to win the overall war similar to TEst-Pantheon situation where paperless didn't expand. lol what? were we watching the reaction to t$'s DoW on Grumpy-Guardian in the same universe? Everything else has already been hashed and rehashed and no one is going to convince y'all otherwise. As much as you're convinced we have it out for you and will interpret everything you do as hostile or terrible, the same can be said of Coalition B's responses as well. This is all utterly unproductive, and I vote we just listen to Pre and log dump everything and let it all hang out. Sphinx is one of the few people who will read his own clear cut public logs and deny them, I like to think the rest of us are more reasonable. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Hodor said: lol what? were we watching the reaction to t$'s DoW on Grumpy-Guardian in the same universe? Everything else has already been hashed and rehashed and no one is going to convince y'all otherwise. As much as you're convinced we have it out for you and will interpret everything you do as hostile or terrible, the same can be said of Coalition B's responses as well. This is all utterly unproductive, and I vote we just listen to Pre and log dump everything and let it all hang out. Sphinx is one of the few people who will read his own clear cut public logs and deny them, I like to think the rest of us are more reasonable. Public "outrage" was tempered by KETOG proper(Buorhann's sniping wasn't taken seriously for whatever reason but now I think I know why) and private responses showed an eagerness to treat it as a two-sided deal. I don't know if it was ever officialized as a private deal, bu that's the way it was being treated. GOB/Guardian saw it all as a big joke and were laughing at it. I'm more than aware the other side was eager to comply with the conditions and had even talked about getting rid of misfires. I'm sure people were upset about Pantheon getting hit in Silent too, but they made a deal to win the overall war. The sudden 180 flip on tS as soon as they peaced out with any ill will being erased instantly and tS being seen as heroes was super transparent too. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlboro lalo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 First time in my life I haven't been in an alliance not in npo sphere xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Public "outrage" was tempered by KETOG proper(Buorhann's sniping wasn't taken seriously for whatever reason but now I think I know why) and private responses showed an eagerness to treat it as a two-sided deal. I don't know if it was ever officialized as a private deal, bu that's the way it was being treated. GOB/Guardian saw it all as a big joke and were laughing at it. I'm more than aware the other side was eager to comply with the conditions and had even talked about getting rid of misfires. I'm sure people were upset about Pantheon getting hit in Silent too, but they made a deal to win the overall war. The sudden 180 flip on tS as soon as they peaced out with any ill will being erased instantly and tS being seen as heroes was super transparent too. For what it's worth, as the only t$ member that was paying attention to our embassy on TGH's server, their anger seemed genuine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Roquentin said: The sudden 180 flip on tS as soon as they peaced out with any ill will being erased instantly and tS being seen as heroes was super transparent too. Are you referring to when N$O posted that they were attacking GOB/Guardian but would not expand the war beyond that unless countered - and then NPO expanded the war, so then t$ dropped out? Is that what you are referring to? “Sudden 180 flip” Yeah...no one thinks they were heroes then, nor do they think they are heroes now. Defending your protectorate shouldn’t be the exception, it should be the rule. Edited October 4, 2019 by Kevanovia 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Public "outrage" was tempered by KETOG proper and private responses showed an eagerness to treat it as a two-sided deal. Indeed. It is a true sign of a gentlemen's agreement to tell the other to frick off (in private, mind you) and to nuke their embassy. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Public "outrage" was tempered by KETOG proper(Buorhann's sniping wasn't taken seriously for whatever reason but now I think I know why) and private responses showed an eagerness to treat it as a two-sided deal. I don't know if it was ever officialized as a private deal, bu that's the way it was being treated. GOB/Guardian saw it all as a big joke and were laughing at it. I'm more than aware the other side was eager to comply with the conditions and had even talked about getting rid of misfires. I'm sure people were upset about Pantheon getting hit in Silent too, but they made a deal to win the overall war. The sudden 180 flip on tS as soon as they peaced out with any ill will being erased instantly and tS being seen as heroes was super transparent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: Indeed. It is a true sign of a gentlemen's agreement to tell the other to frick off (in private, mind you) and to nuke their embassy. Yup. Easy to dismiss. "TGH are just very passionate and what Buorhann is saying isn't a big deal." There was almost an impression of congeniality and an abundance of eagerness to keep the deal in place in the convos between Sisyphus and Keegoz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Roquentin said: Easy to dismiss. "TGH are just very passionate and what Buorhann is saying isn't a big deal." There was almost an impression of congeniality and an abundance of eagerness to keep the deal in place in the convos between Sisyphus and Keegoz. So, Buorhann is simultaneously the grand puppet master of KERCHTOG (that's the impression I get from how people refer to him), yet his opinion is dismissable. That's not how things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: So, Buorhann is simultaneously the grand puppet master of KERCHTOG (that's the impression I get from how people refer to him), yet his opinion is dismissable. That's not how things work. Oh, I"m not saying it's inherently dismissable, but people will take what he says as just him being a hothead so the stuff he was saying was being taken with a grain of salt and just banter/non-serious. I took it more seriously at the time but was alone in that opinion so it seemed something was up. Ever heard of a good cop bad cop routine? He's even gone onto say he was just more upset at the time because he didn't realize his old friend had no hostility and wasn't complicit in anything. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Roquentin said: Okay. Ultimately most actions will be in reaction to something else. If you have a concern, you can wait for it to happen or preempt it, but there are few genuinely spontaneous actions that come out of nowhere and don't arise from something else. As an alliance that has tried to avoid being overbearing and sadistic, we don't really go around looking to beat on people for no reason so yes very few of our actions will be super spontaneous or unconnected to other events like Soup's hit of Fark. We messed up by not knowing the expectations tS outside of Kayser had for us. We rather than waiting for the predicted scenario to come to us hit TKR to prevent it which alienated tS as they hoped for a decisive TKR/Chaos victory and viewed them as a genuinely friendly group. This difference of opinion hadn't existed with the previous FA head and we failed to sort out the differing goals Sisyphus, Leopold, and Utmos had when compared to Kayser. We messed up by not realizing we were getting cancelled for sure before the recent treaties. 30 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Public "outrage" was tempered by KETOG proper(Buorhann's sniping wasn't taken seriously for whatever reason but now I think I know why) and private responses showed an eagerness to treat it as a two-sided deal. I don't know if it was ever officialized as a private deal, bu that's the way it was being treated. GOB/Guardian saw it all as a big joke and were laughing at it. I'm more than aware the other side was eager to comply with the conditions and had even talked about getting rid of misfires. I'm sure people were upset about Pantheon getting hit in Silent too, but they made a deal to win the overall war. The sudden 180 flip on tS as soon as they peaced out with any ill will being erased instantly and tS being seen as heroes was super transparent too. 12 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Easy to dismiss. "TGH are just very passionate and what Buorhann is saying isn't a big deal." There was almost an impression of congeniality and an abundance of eagerness to keep the deal in place in the convos between Sisyphus and Keegoz. 4 minutes ago, Roquentin said: Oh, I"m not saying it's inherently dismissable, but people will take what he says as just him being a hothead so the stuff he was saying was being taken with a grain of salt and just banter/non-serious. I took it more seriously at the time but was alone in that opinion so it seemed something was up. Ever heard of a good cop bad cop routine? He's even gone onto say he was just more upset at the time because he didn't realize his old friend had no hostility and wasn't complicit in anything. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Roquentin said: Oh, I"m not saying it's inherently dismissable, but people will take what he says as just him being a hothead so the stuff he was saying was being taken with a grain of salt and just banter/non-serious. I took it more seriously at the time but was alone in that opinion so it seemed something was up. Ever heard of a good cop bad cop routine? I can certainly attest to him not being banterous in such situations. That I have, though he's not been involved in the peace talks as much, so it's got no bearing over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Prefonteen said: There is no contradiction. 1. tS dismissed Buorhann's commentary as not mattering but I thought he was serious. Just because I say people can dismiss it easily doesn't mean I didn't take it seriously at the time. There just happens to be a way people hand wave anything away said by them. 2. The rest of KETOG was relatively mute, treating the dec by tS as a huge joke, or just not commenting at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Roquentin said: 2. The rest of KETOG was relatively mute, treating the dec by tS as a huge joke, or just not commenting at all. *Stares at the longest thread on the forums titled "We Are Here For The Whales"* Silent... Riiiight. As for "Huge Joke," The main joke if I remember was that this was going to just be an in for NPO to enter the war and save baby BK.... and... well... here we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Reminder that the second an NPO nation hit TKR that Bourhann ordered everyone to attack all of N$O without mercy. I'm sorry but if i'm secretly working with a guy i'm gonna know he's not part of it, and i'm just gonna give the beatdown to you instead of him, know what i'm saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said: *Stares at the longest thread on the forums titled "We Are Here For The Whales"* Silent... Riiiight. As for "Huge Joke," The main joke if I remember was that this was going to just be an in for NPO to enter the war and save baby BK.... and... well... here we are. No, the joke was that GOB and Guardian thought tS sucked. 1 minute ago, Akuryo said: Reminder that the second an NPO nation hit TKR that Bourhann ordered everyone to attack all of N$O without mercy. I'm sorry but if i'm secretly working with a guy i'm gonna know he's not part of it, and i'm just gonna give the beatdown to you instead of him, know what i'm saying? Too bad they didn't have the balls to do it and arranged a peace deal within hours. I guess you're right that he himself may have not been privy to the dealings. Edited October 4, 2019 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Roquentin said: No, the joke was that GOB and Guardian thought tS sucked. That was also another running joke, Yes. But not really the "BIG" one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Roquentin said: No, the joke was that GOB and Guardian thought tS sucked. I mean, they kinda did... They went at like 40-50 whales with originally, what, 6 wars...? Then needed help from NPO, HS, and CoA? When realistically t$ should've been capable of outputting enough force to be dangerous by itself without needing them? Yeah, they kinda sucked, like hard. Even your own coalition now fighting them agrees. 1 minute ago, Roquentin said: No, the joke was that GOB and Guardian thought tS sucked. Too bad they didn't have the balls to do it and arranged a peace deal within hours. I guess you're right that he himself may have not been privy to the dealings. More like t$ freaked out, said they weren't party to whatever the hell you were doing, and were backing out. In a stunning, rare move of restraint and not rage-filled ego, they did let t$ go, rather than literally make it worse for themselves by fighting all of N$O too. Could you imagine how quick shit would've turned if they didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, Roquentin said: There is no contradiction. 1. tS dismissed Buorhann's commentary as not mattering but I thought he was serious. Just because I say people can dismiss it easily doesn't mean I didn't take it seriously at the time. There just happens to be a way people hand wave anything away said by them. 2. The rest of KETOG was relatively mute, treating the dec by tS as a huge joke, or just not commenting at all. I wasn't aware you were privy to all of tS' backroom channels and embassies with kerchtogggjvdrhijgd alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Yeah, not gonna bother quoting any specific points but if Roq had experienced my private DMs after we declared on Grumpy and Guardian he'd know better than to tread this line of rhetoric. Though of course, Roquentin isn't opposed to outright lies and deceit though, so he'd probably attempt it anyway. 3 Quote One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Roquentin said: Oh, I"m not saying it's inherently dismissable, but people will take what he says as just him being a hothead so the stuff he was saying was being taken with a grain of salt and just banter/non-serious. I took it more seriously at the time but was alone in that opinion so it seemed something was up. Ever heard of a good cop bad cop routine? He's even gone onto say he was just more upset at the time because he didn't realize his old friend had no hostility and wasn't complicit in anything. P sure I am the good cop in TGH and I publicly and privately told t$ to frick off and nuked their embassy. LIke damn, this kinda thinking is some flat earth shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hodor said: P sure I am the good cop in TGH and I publicly and privately told t$ to frick off and nuked their embassy. LIke damn, this kinda thinking is some flat earth shit. I was talking about the bloc having a good cop and a bad cop. This isn't really flat earth shit given how quick reconciliation happened as soon as they peaced and Buorhann has even said he misjudged Sisyphus entirely at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kevanovia Posted October 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hodor said: P sure I am the good cop in TGH Nice try. We all know that Sketchy is the kind, calm and levelheaded one in TGH. 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Roquentin said: I was talking about the bloc having a good cop and a bad cop. This isn't really flat earth shit given how quick reconciliation happened as soon as they peaced and Buorhann has even said he misjudged Sisyphus entirely at the time. I think you're again reading into this in the worst way. I think I addressed it at the time. We aren't afraid to eat our words. We truly believe t$ was going to break its promise. They stuck to their word, which was impressive to us. It didn't completely let them off the hook, but it went a long way to pave the way towards reconciliation. It also helped they got absolutely smacked by Grumpy and Guardian. 2 minutes ago, Kevanovia said: Nice try. We all know that Sketchy is the kind, calm and levelheaded one in TGH. No that is scarf. Edited October 4, 2019 by Hodor 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Hodor said: I think you're again reading into this in the worst way. I think I addressed it at the time. We aren't afraid to eat our words. We truly believe t$ was going to break its promise. They stuck to their word, which was impressive to us. It didn't completely let them off the hook, but it went a long way to pave the way towards reconciliation. It also helped they got absolutely smacked by Grumpy and Guardian. It doesn't make sense to be angry over something that hadn't happened and it never was potentially broken regardless of what they did. It was either real anger over Guardian/GOB or not. If they reassured you that they would exit if NPO did anything and that was the word given somewhere else, then that's a different problem altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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