Micchan Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I don't even know how you still have the strength to argue with NPO gov after all this, this is where I'm ready to surrender 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alexio15 Posted October 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2019 Oh man so much s*** from this one thing, I mean i am just fascinated by all of this spin and spin. It's almost like you've been sat on one of those roundabouts you have as a kid for so long that all your brain can do is work that way. I mean sure we have Demon but let's not conveniently forget that his government was just as complicit and now reside as government in another place. But sure tell me again how we took the entire Clan Callan alliance I'm going to never get bored of it. While we are at it let's talk about the atrocious behaviour you've pulled with syndicate and the actions there shall we? Because I'm fairly certain you take the damn cake so dont be surprised when some maybe reciprocates. But no keep spinning how you're the one who was abused and lied to, you remind me of the psychopath in a relationship who needs to beat on his partner and claims she made him do it. As for your separate war you had planned you dont even wanna get me started on that. Nor do you want to get me started on the fact that this war was planned 3 weeks after surfs up finished. Ooops I should have said spoiler. You had no intention of changing the war plan you just delayed it because and I am using an exact quote from this. "They didn't have enough to blow up, it wouldn't be profitable. We wait for them to rebuild and then hit them" 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Theodosius Posted October 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Frawley said: You exited the war because you either pre-arranged to burn us (thinking we would lose the war), or your personal dislike of BK superceded the value you placed on your allies well being. I know NPO (And yourself) have been years with dogshit allies, but this works both ways just FYI. Not just for NPO. Seems your attachment to BK superceded your own value of new allies. 2 hours ago, Frawley said: The view of NPO-t$ was that two spheres coalesing to fight one sphere was a terrible idea and should warrant a response. You mean like how the logs leaked about timing N$Os attack on KETOG and BKsphere attack on Chaos? You're upset because we took action ourselves after you adamantly denied knowing about it (While also contradicting yourself too)? 6 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filmore Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Roquentin said: DemonSpawn is in Sanreizan and he was the leader. Most of his alliance went to House Stark after they disbanded. Does this mean NPO is going to hit them too? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) The bait dangled lacks finesse and the cynicism of this move is somewhat obvious, however this will sow deep hatreds and those are always interesting Edited October 2, 2019 by Ogaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Micchan said: I don't even know how you still have the strength to argue with NPO gov after all this, this is where I'm ready to surrender I can't be bothered to try. There's clearly a lot of logs forming the basis of all these arguments that aren't being posted- logs between spheres, logs between opponents, logs between allies. I want to see the logs. All of them. Without them, emotional investment is unwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buorhann said: I know NPO (And yourself) have been years with dogshit allies, but this works both ways just FYI. Not just for NPO. Seems your attachment to BK superceded your own value of new allies. You mean like how the logs leaked about timing N$Os attack on KETOG and BKsphere attack on Chaos? You're upset because we took action ourselves after you adamantly denied knowing about it (While also contradicting yourself too)? As to the first part, our view was that the t$ government knew about the planned escalation, expected the planned escalation, and indeed wanted escalation to occur. Syphilis unilaterally, and without notice, putting limits on what t$ would and wouldn't do was a surprise to us. We had no prior knowledge of what he was posting till we read it on the OWF. Regarding the second part. 1. N$O was approached in general terms by BK Sphere about hitting two spheres concurrently, as well as your own about hitting BK Sphere. We had not agreed to any plans. 2. N$O had planned its own single sphere v single sphere conflict (wasn't this the point of minispheres), independent of BK Sphere and had fixed a time and a place. 3. Surf's Up starts, plans in 2. are scrapped. 4. Months old logs are released, two spheres agree to fight one. N$O agrees as a sphere that this is bad news and that we should do something. 5. Rest is history. Edited October 2, 2019 by Frawley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Roquentin said: They were informed we were hitting TKR and it was made clear several days in advance that it was what we wanted to do. The fact that this lie is repeated constantly is severely problematic. 7 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: False. Spent a week or more hashing out the expansion. The fact that they are still busy painting the "we were not informed" spiel, adds another layer to this. JS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sisyphus Posted October 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2019 "1. N$O was approached in general terms by BK Sphere about hitting two spheres concurrently, as well as your own about hitting BK Sphere. We had not agreed to any plans." The fact that both of our strikes were planned for mid June is just a coincidence. BK certainly wasn't informed about these plans at all - no way - definitely not. There's got to be some other reason a government member from a completely different sphere "thought" they had our support for a war on a specific date, that lines up with our plans, that also involves random chance, says the alliance that never tries to leave anything to random chance as a rule. "2. N$O had planned its own single sphere v single sphere conflict (wasn't this the point of minispheres), independent of BK Sphere and had fixed a time and a place." Hilmes ghosts but the Board did commit to a war on KETOG for mid June before the Sphunx leak, and that was a serious concern of mine when I took on Strategic Planning. Because I was definitely interested in maintaining our commitment there. 1.) Because it was a hard commitment and 2.) Because Whales. "3. Surf's Up starts, plans in 2. are scrapped." A classic NPO duality. Plans in 2 are scrapped but now I'm an !@#$ for having different interests and wanting to discuss different options and possibilities because I'm concerned this is a PR disaster and entering in any way that overtly supports BK would reinforce a resurgent IQ narrative and collapse the minispheres dynamic. I stated that we have no interest in bailing out BK from the beginning. This is the point where I suggest the rules. There is plenty of discussion and overt conversation about the terms of The Syndicates entry and the conditions and limits under which that entry is presupposed. Roquentin even provides "tacit" approval, for those not at home keeping notes that means "saying whatever he needed to say to get his way, while knowing full well he'll break his commitment to suit his interests regardless of the consequences". And since you keep railing on it, the fact that you want to e-lawyer your way around the exact words and ignore the debate and discussion surrounding the rules of our involvement against KETOG, which I did go through pains to make explicit and reach a consensus on, is a pretty solid indicator that you either weren't paying attention or didn't care. Hence our impromptu exit, which was a quick draw response and unexpected even for me but absolutely a direct result of us making it clear in advance that we didn't approve of your entry on anything but defensive terms and you entering anyway. Was it the right thing to do? One could argue the merits but maintaining a war against KETOG to support your blatant aggression on a separate sphere when we don't share a mutual aggression pact is a pretty messed up double standard, when you consider we made it blatantly clear we didn't approve of that aggression. We did not form N$O to defend BK. Hilmes agreeing to leave BK off the table as an option despite their repeated pattern of aggression and belligerence against The Syndicate to make you guys feel better about "dropping" them was more than enough to secure them against anything other than their own incompetence. "4. Months old logs are released, two spheres agree to fight one. N$O agrees as a sphere that this is bad news and that we should do something." This is just point 3 but reworded and also one of those half truths. We certainly agreed that it was bad news but we definitely didn't agree on the way to proceed. If I had known about your conflicting interests I would have made drastically different decisions but up until you entered, I was offering you guys the benefit of every doubt, and oh boy were there plenty of doubts. We either agreed or I blew the whole thing up. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We agreed on the problem at face value but it's apparent we didn't see eye to eye on the root causes nor the potential solutions. "5. Rest is history." This is true enough, but it's pretty ridiculous for you guys to come up with some narrative that tries to spin your alliance as some good faith actor trying to make minispheres work. You admitted it yourselves that you never bought into the minispheres idea, and that you prefer bipolarity. At a certain point it became impossible to trust you with anything, constantly making appeals to your alliance's sovereignty (which is fine) but never respecting anyone else's interests or sovereignty isn't exactly the best model for a healthy partnership. 7 Quote One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sisyphus said: At a certain point it became impossible to trust you with anything, constantly making appeals to your alliance's sovereignty (which is fine) but never respecting anyone else's interests or sovereignty isn't exactly the best model for a healthy partnership. This is like lesson one from the Pacifican playbook. Congrats for catching up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Charles the Tyrant said: This is like lesson one from the Pacifican playbook. Congrats for catching up ? I've never claimed to be a mastermind, to be fair, but you're missing a lot of context and lead up to this that is very important to the position The Syndicate was in back in June and leading up to current affairs. Delving into that is both time consuming and distracting from the fact that NPO just planned an attack on their ally's protectorates with an alliance they aren't even tied to and refuses to honor the treaty they're using to shield their play. Edited October 2, 2019 by Sisyphus 4 Quote One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sisyphus said: Delving into that is both time consuming and distracting from the fact that NPO just planned an attack on their ally's protectorates with an alliance they aren't even tied to and refuses to honor the treaty they're using to shield their play. Don't forget to mention that they're also trying to pin all of this on you. Edited October 2, 2019 by Shiho Nishizumi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sisyphus said: I've never claimed to be a mastermind, to be fair, but you're missing a lot of context and lead up to this that is very important to the position The Syndicate was in back in June and leading up to current affairs. Delving into that is both time consuming and distracting from the fact that NPO just planned an attack on their ally's protectorates with an alliance they aren't even tied to and refuses to honor the treaty they're using to shield their play. The point stands, however, that you should never have trusted Roq or NPO. It was rather naive to place any sort of trust in them in the first place and the current events lend credence to such an assertion. This sort of behaviour is what they do and have done for quite some time, certainly so before my departure nearly two years ago and it doesn’t look like much has changed. I was quite surprised upon my return to see a syndicate/pacifican treaty, I didn’t believe the old guard would have condoned such a diplomatic move, not the old guard I remember at least. Oh well, it appears things have returned to how they should be. Edited October 2, 2019 by Charles the Tyrant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Charles the Tyrant said: The point stands, however, that you should never have trusted Roq or NPO. It was rather naive to place any sort of trust in them in the first place. This sort of behaviour is what they do and have done for quite some time, certainly so before my departure nearly two years ago and it doesn’t look like much has changed. I was quite surprised upon my return to see a syndicate/pacifican treaty, I didn’t believe the old guard would have condoned such a diplomatic move, not the old guard I remember at least. Oh well, it appears things have returned to how they should be. 28 minutes ago, Sisyphus said: You're missing a lot of context and lead up to this that is very important to the position The Syndicate was in back in June and leading up to current affairs. Delving into that is both time consuming and distracting from the fact that NPO just planned an attack on their ally's protectorates with an alliance they aren't even tied to and refuses to honor the treaty they're using to shield their play. Quote One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etat Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 9 hours ago, hope said: regardless of political alignment, i am very confused. anyone else confused? cus im very confused like im really trying to follow but i just cant at this point Me too! A couple of commonly held ideas may help with your perspective however: that empty ships make the most noise, and that if you can't explain something clearly and succinctly then you probably don't know what you're talking about. Read into this how you will, generally speaking though it seems that the more people post on here the more those same people are caught out lying, and they're slowly finding themselves friendless as recent events indicate. 1 Quote Celer Et Audax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftbehind Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You spin my head right round, right round. Like a record baby... NPO comes out in force to try and discredit their "ally" while promoting the idea they are just a victim. Good on you guys for the effort but I think many of us can see through it. No matter what you try and say your actions during this war has proven that no matter what BK is more important than anyone else. Your inability to see further down the line than a month at a time and your victim mentality means you will never be able to overcome your past. It is a shame. The more I read about this the more I realize that this is the same old song and dance just in a different place. It's kinda pathetic when you think about it. Good luck in the war you have no business being apart of and burning the few bridges you have left. Quote FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Leftbehind said: You spin my head right round, right round. Like a record baby... NPO comes out in force to try and discredit their "ally" while promoting the idea they are just a victim. Good on you guys for the effort but I think many of us can see through it. No matter what you try and say your actions during this war has proven that no matter what BK is more important than anyone else. Your inability to see further down the line than a month at a time and your victim mentality means you will never be able to overcome your past. It is a shame. The more I read about this the more I realize that this is the same old song and dance just in a different place. It's kinda pathetic when you think about it. Good luck in the war you have no business being apart of and burning the few bridges you have left. Hodor asked for our side of the story. We gave it. tS is a forum darling. Every announcement that wasn't the DoW has been praised. We aren't going to discredit them. There aren't any victims here in terms of us or TS, just tS decided we weren't worthy of being treated like an ally anymore and they thought sticking to their hardline stances was right and charted a post-NPO FA path. They did what they felt was right and had poisoned the well to the extent they had ruled out reconciliation. The only victim here is House Stark since they tried to mediate only have to those efforts shot down by syndicate and now it's a pretty bad situation. It's your more your side is obsessed with BK/ex-IQ that everything is in the scope of benefiting/hurting BK. It was made excessively clear that even though BK have done a lot of things wrong that it wasn't enough to make it the cornerstone of our FA. You guys just always feel entitled to win and get back or stay on top that you make them out to be invincible to justify your actions in the name of saving the game or whatever. BK isn't invincible and many of their side wavered when it got tough. The bridges were burned already. Syndicate didn't want to be allied to us anymore. The level of crass disrespect and condescension shown to us was unparalleled in diplomatic communications. Just keep cheering them on because as long it hurts us, it's a morally just action. Edited October 3, 2019 by Roquentin 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) Lol, @Roquentin You keep forgetting that there was LITERALLY A THREAD started with a huge leak that neither BK or TCW even attempted to deny. Had that not happened and Surfs Up ended on its own, NONE of this would be happening. Are you guys intentionally dense or stupid? Edited October 3, 2019 by Buorhann Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Buorhann said: Lol, @Roquentin You keep forgetting that there was LITERALLY A THREAD started with a huge leak that neither BK or TCW even attempted to deny. Had that not happened and Surfs Up ended on its own, NONE of this would be happening. Are you guys intentionally dense or stupid? No, are you? TKR and BK hate each other and the rest of Chaos hates BK. KETOG dislikes BKsphere. The war was inevitable if you could get enough buy in for a hit on them. The screens were enough to rally around when most people had already lost their infra, so they had nothing to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 And the problem? Generally if one or two alliances dislike you, maybe it’s on them and not you. But when half (over half?) of the community does - maaaaaybe it’s on you. I mean, it’s a no brainer considering BK fricked up twice here publicly. At least they can rely on you to save them. 2 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, Buorhann said: And the problem? Generally if one or two alliances dislike you, maybe it’s on them and not you. But when half (over half?) of the community does - maaaaaybe it’s on you. I mean, it’s a no brainer considering BK fricked up twice here publicly. At least they can rely on you to save them. But over half the community loves NPO, in fact a good quarter is in a single protectorate of theirs! Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, Malal said: But over half the community loves NPO, in fact a good quarter is in a single protectorate of theirs! Did I say NPO? Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Buorhann said: Did I say NPO? Seems that we are liked enough to have the support to turn this war around, almost like OWF doesn't accurately portray where alliances stand. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 You could be right. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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