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If chaos drives, let suffering hold the wheel


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14 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

  I've seen enough snippets of logs that involved BK/NPO/(Kayser led Syndicate) to know what was up, and it was one of the reasons why I was royally pissed off at Wilhelm for following such a dumbass plan (Which later I found out that he didn't know everything that was going on when I ripped into him).

Lol what a bunch of bollocks again. Though still awaiting how you've concluded that tS was somehow coerced into this, or wilhelm was somehow not in the loop is funny. He did step up mid-way through a shitstorm though and we thrashed it out for a while. But again, nice try to lay the blame for something you have no idea off at our feet. 

18 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Thanks for that Shifty.  I already know that NPO's forum facade is nothing but lies, and that they fully intended to support BK no matter what (Whether it was us roflstomping BK + Friends for their leak or BK steam rolling TKR/Chaos despite our ongoing war against Chaos)

Shifty posts logs about BKsphere and their plans, and that equals NPO's lying. Quite the stretch there mate. 

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6 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

This is an honest question.  What two spheres did you expect to declare on a single sphere?.

 

It could just be me, but it seems that the only viable options (as y'all are the only blocs large enough) are against N$O where your policy couldn't be used as you'd already be at war or BK which as we saw.  

I mean do you see any other outcome from this policy besides helping out BK?  And I don't want this to offend you, but it's a question I've been repeatedly asking and haven't got answered.

Not necessarily no. BKsphere to me wasn't as consolidated/strong as folks made it seem, and was made up of holdovers (VG), ex-IQ (GoG), protectorates (Citadel) and had treaties with tC, that had just expanded. Given the large number of folks and its unwieldy nature, I didn't expect it to last, and saw it split given time. Mind you I expected moves for an early war, but didn't think KETOGG/Chaos would break their minisphere mantra that soon.

I just didn't consider BK's number on paper a threat, and don't think it would have lasted past June/July without parts of it separating/ peeling off to do their own thing. If anything this war, solidified their need to stick together, since they'd be rolled to pieces separately under the new "fun" dynamic nonsense people were trying to push. 

So I didn't see this as the only playing out of that agreement, because I didn't view BKsphere with same prism that you did, and given that I knew a lot of folks involved, was content in the knowledge that it was a temporary grouping at best, that was made up of different sovereign alliances who'd have different goals. It wasn't the only war that could have happened and other things could have happened in between that changed things around. But the moment Chaos/KETOGG attempted to brute force the issue, our worst case scenario in our discussions with tS was playing out, and well we acted ?‍♀️

Edited by Shadowthrone
Sorry for double post.
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15 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

So I didn't see this as the only playing out of that agreement, because I didn't view BKsphere with same prism that you did, and given that I knew a lot of folks involved, was content in the knowledge that it was a temporary grouping at best, that was made up of different sovereign alliances who'd have different goals. It wasn't the only war that could have happened and other things could have happened in between that changed things around. But the moment Chaos/KETOGG attempted to brute force the issue, our worst case scenario in our discussions with tS was playing out, and well we acted ?‍♀️

I feel as if my question still wasn't really answered.  You must've analyzed the other main competing alternatives while considering this policy if it wasn't BK-oriented.  Do you mind elaborating on what those other situations were and their plausibility?

 

15 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

I just didn't consider BK's number on paper a threat, and don't think it would have lasted past June/July without parts of it separating/ peeling off to do their own thing. If anything this war, solidified their need to stick together, since they'd be rolled to pieces separately under the new "fun" dynamic nonsense people were trying to push. 

 I consider you to be an intelligent guy, and you must've not been blind to the rhetoric against BK's numbers.  And you know better than I about how we all see things differently.  Is it a bit naive to think that just because you didn't see a threat for NPO that others, who actively were saying BK was aa threat, might perceive BK differently?

Edited by Cooper_
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49 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Thanks for that Shifty.  I already know that NPO's forum facade is nothing but lies, and that they fully intended to support BK no matter what (Whether it was us roflstomping BK + Friends for their leak or BK steam rolling TKR/Chaos despite our ongoing war against Chaos).  I've seen enough snippets of logs that involved BK/NPO/(Kayser led Syndicate) to know what was up, and it was one of the reasons why I was royally pissed off at Wilhelm for following such a dumbass plan (Which later I found out that he didn't know everything that was going on when I ripped into him).

 

For some odd reason, people still want to believe them.  Still, everything will be alright after this war concludes, when it concludes.

[citation needed]

I'm waiting to see proof of this because I can tell you we had no plans to enter when BK mobilized when KETOG hit Chaos. You have the screens from BK's channel but we weren't involved.

 

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18 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

I feel as if my question still wasn't really answered.  You must've analyzed the other main competing alternatives while considering this policy if it wasn't BK-oriented.  Do you mind elaborating on what those other situations were and their plausibility?

 

Your question is easily answered. If BKSphere split (which I think it would have come summer, before this whole war), and folks started trying to combine those numbers, would have been open to a rolling for attempting to reach critical mass. I mean there's a variety of combinations that could have arisen but just didn't have the time to form. So here we are. I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that this agreement was created solely to protect BK, but any variety of situations. It was meant to be flexible ?‍♀️ 

26 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

 I consider you to be an intelligent guy, and you must've not been blind to the rhetoric against BK's numbers.  And you know better than I about how we all see things differently.  Is it a bit naive to think that just because you didn't see a threat for NPO that others, who actively were saying BK was aa threat, might perceive BK differently?

I mean BK's numbers was the most disingenuous PR narrative that your side tried to push. But I have no idea how who views them as a threat matters or not. My point was it would have been a smarter move to let the sphere eventually separate as it would have given, the variety of moving parts/ interests and I would not have allowed something like Soup v Fark happen in the grand scheme of things, to engender trust with smaller alliances to split off.  

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11 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

[citation needed]

I'm waiting to see proof of this because I can tell you we had no plans to enter when BK mobilized when KETOG hit Chaos. You have the screens from BK's channel but we weren't involved.

 

Dude we're still waiting for your proof of TKR planning to hit NPO either before or after this global war. We've been waiting for it for 3 months. 

 

tenor.gif

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11 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

[citation needed]

I'm waiting to see proof of this because I can tell you we had no plans to enter when BK mobilized when KETOG hit Chaos. You have the screens from BK's channel but we weren't involved.

 

And yet you joined. Now all of the sudden NPO is changing the narrative again once their accomplice was ousted. You may want to hand over the shovel before your hole is too deep to climb out of.

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6 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

And yet you joined. Now all of the sudden NPO is changing the narrative again once their accomplice was ousted. You may want to hand over the shovel before your hole is too deep to climb out of.

Lol, you folk seem to think you have some great ace-in-the sleeve you've been alluding too for a few weeks. Really curious what logs these are.

We've explained our reasons for joining though, but I have no idea how explaining those reasons is digging a deeper hole now.

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11 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

And yet you joined. Now all of the sudden NPO is changing the narrative again once their accomplice was ousted. You may want to hand over the shovel before your hole is too deep to climb out of.

How is it being changed? He's saying we were ready to help BK if they went on the offensive against TKR in the curufinwe screens that were posted a few weeks ago, which wasn't the case.

 

15 minutes ago, alyster said:

Dude we're still waiting for your proof of TKR planning to hit NPO either before or after this global war. We've been waiting for it for 3 months. 

 

tenor.gif

There's a difference between saying it informed our decision and holding undisclosed material as a "gotcha". I'm not trying to lord it over anyone and the only time it was even mentioned was in passing in the DoW.

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38 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

[citation needed]

I'm waiting to see proof of this because I can tell you we had no plans to enter when BK mobilized when KETOG hit Chaos. You have the screens from BK's channel but we weren't involved.

 

I thought you liked doing things without any proof? Isn't that why you are in this war? :P

[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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1 minute ago, Keegoz said:

I thought you liked doing things without any proof? Isn't that why you are in this war? :P

There was enough stuff to justify the suspicion and as said before the lop-sided nature of the conflict early on made it an easy decision to intervene. 

What I'm taking issue with is Kevanovia and Buorhann holding out some gotcha when the minds are made up already.  The bridges are burned and there is no good will and we're backed into a corner anyway. If they think it'll help them to double down on their positions with whatever they have, then we don't really have any incentive to play nice or care what they think besides just noting it'll have to be dealt with over and over from here on out. I'm not the one holding out anything as a trump card for the future.

 

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7 hours ago, Mhearl said:

And lastly @Prefonteen how’s TJest doing 

 

THE GREATEST ALLIANCE PREVAILS THROUGH YOUR SILLY WITS!

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Former leader of Chocolate Castle 4/1/2021

"It's pretty easy to get abused by Rosey without being a weirdo about it" - Betilius

"Rosey is everything I look for in a fighter" - partisan

"I’m very much not surprised that Lossi has you blocked tbh" - @MCMaster-095

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4 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

There was enough stuff to justify the suspicion and as said before the lop-sided nature of the conflict early on made it an easy decision to intervene. 

What I'm taking issue with is Kevanovia and Buorhann holding out some gotcha when the minds are made up already.  The bridges are burned and there is no good will and we're backed into a corner anyway. If they think it'll help them to double down on their positions with whatever they have, then we don't really have any incentive to play nice or care what they think besides just noting it'll have to be dealt with over and over from here on out. I'm not the one holding out anything as a trump card for the future.

 

I can’t speak for Beerhoe, but I actually like myself some Pacifica. It is displeasing when I see you continue to defend BK when it’s very likely based on logs/context that you conspired with them. However, if that’s not the case and you feel like you have been duped and reacted to this situation/war only due to misplaced trust and a false narrative of this war presented by BK - I wish you luck going forward. 

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57 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

There was enough stuff to justify the suspicion and as said before the lop-sided nature of the conflict early on made it an easy decision to intervene. 

What I'm taking issue with is Kevanovia and Buorhann holding out some gotcha when the minds are made up already.  The bridges are burned and there is no good will and we're backed into a corner anyway. If they think it'll help them to double down on their positions with whatever they have, then we don't really have any incentive to play nice or care what they think besides just noting it'll have to be dealt with over and over from here on out. I'm not the one holding out anything as a trump card for the future.

 

I mean, Shadowthorne said BK was doing fine in the war and that your decision to enter was based solely on information. Might want to have a chat to him that the official spin was that they were struggling and desperately needed help. Even though the war was hardly lopsided, just badly coordinated by BK.

I've seen the information they're referencing and it is pretty damning if true and to the point where I don't think they care about NPO's 'goodwill'. The reason why they and I won't expose the info we have is because we've been asked not to and ultimately you're correct. Everyone's minds are made up at this point and neither side is happy with the other's justification.

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[11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though.

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1 hour ago, Keegoz said:

I mean, Shadowthorne said BK was doing fine in the war and that your decision to enter was based solely on information. Might want to have a chat to him that the official spin was that they were struggling and desperately needed help. Even though the war was hardly lopsided, just badly coordinated by BK.

 

I mean we aren't in this to "protect" BK lol. There's a lot of nuance with such a term. We're in this because as Roq pointed out, there were suspicions, information flew and our best decision was to enter given what we knew. The nature of the war itself proved something I had pointed earlier, that the BKsphere on paper seemed big, but wasn't a single monolithic coalition like KERTCHOGG, which further forced our hand. A lopsided war, made us running numbers and seeing how this is our best chance and not to wait for the next war, when we'd be sitting ducks. 

That context is far different from being in it to protect BK. That wasn't our main motivator. 

1 hour ago, Keegoz said:

I've seen the information they're referencing and it is pretty damning if true and to the point where I don't think they care about NPO's 'goodwill'. The reason why they and I won't expose the info we have is because we've been asked not to and ultimately you're correct. Everyone's minds are made up at this point and neither side is happy with the other's justification.

I see. Pretty damning but requested to not share it. Got it. I can understand that, but if that's the case, than don't really expect us to play nice or generate good will. These "gotcha" nonsense is hilarious. 

 

2 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

It is displeasing when I see you continue to defend BK when it’s very likely based on logs/context that you conspired with them.

I see. Welp! Looking forward to big reveal :) 

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2 hours ago, Ripper said:

Ok, the fact that you state that "a monolithic coalition" would fight a "civil" war...

  • a. either implies that you think Chaos/KETOG are super idiots (honestly, I cannot find a logical explanation for an alliance/bloc/coalition to fight itself)
  • b. or that this is something that you would actually do yourself (fight yourself or your IQ allies), which means that you are the idiots.

The first option makes me angry while the second one is quite entertaining. Just help me on that and make it clear whether it's a. or b.

You guys have committed to a "destroy ex-IQ" narrative; something that might have made sense in 2016, but not now. Others, in contrast, are in a position where they can be more concerned about game health. You've just made it clear your coalition is toxx for now.

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7 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Pretty damning but requested to not share it. Got it. I can understand that, but if that's the case, than don't really expect us to play nice or generate good will.

How ironic.

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23 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Firstly your premise is wrong in trying to use a secret treaty argument. Secondly, throwing in Rose wasn't really the overkill. It was the consolidation of KERTCHOGG. 

Consolidation? KERTCHOGG couldnt even consolidate their acronym lol 

 

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