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Alex

8/30/2019 - Additions to the Game Rules

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@Alex In terms of the Moderation as a weapon, It might be an idea to add something about claiming someone is cheating when they do not 1) report or 2) have any prove of it, A few people are baiting others by claiming the other person has multi's or cheated in some way, it gets boring and in my opinion hurts the game, I have had two friends delete due to this very issue.

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1 minute ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

@Alex In terms of the Moderation as a weapon, It might be an idea to add something about claiming someone is cheating when they do not 1) report or 2) have any prove of it, A few people are baiting others by claiming the other person has multi's or cheated in some way, it gets boring and in my opinion hurts the game, I have had two friends delete due to this very issue.

Don't you think that would discourage people from making reports at all? If you reported someone, and it turned out they weren't actually multis (when you genuinely thought they were) you agree that you should be punished for making a false report?

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2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Don't you think that would discourage people from making reports at all? If you reported someone, and it turned out they weren't actually multis (when you genuinely thought they were) you agree that you should be punished for making a false report?

IF they are reporting it within the right forum then of coarse they should be no punishment, but when replying to a topic or a post outside of the moderation then yes it should be publishable. 

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When will you make everything fun against the rules?

The VM message was hilarious when people actually fell for it.

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The thing I'll miss so much about fake VM was how easy and simple it was to do. Newer, but legal, maskirovka efforts take a way more photoshop effort to get right.

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I wonder what other rules will be in the future like Idk? Making another Alliance to hide the bank and then quickly delete it just to go back to your proper alliance from raiders getting the main bank against the rules? Idk? Anyone got any other bright idea's that needs to be in the rule book?

Edited by Madden8021
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Like the rule against using mods as weapons, so it can backfire on alliances or individuals who try abusing the system with frivolous reports so the mods will assist them; rather than caring about game health.

👍

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3 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

@Alex In terms of the Moderation as a weapon, It might be an idea to add something about claiming someone is cheating when they do not 1) report or 2) have any prove of it, A few people are baiting others by claiming the other person has multi's or cheated in some way, it gets boring and in my opinion hurts the game, I have had two friends delete due to this very issue.

I believe you're misreading that rule.  It's meant to stop the blackmail NPO was pulling earlier in the war, not to stop reports.  Saying you think someone is cheating doesn't apply, but saying you'll report if they don't [insert x], is against the rules.

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52 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

I believe you're misreading that rule.  It's meant to stop the blackmail NPO was pulling earlier in the war, not to stop reports.  Saying you think someone is cheating doesn't apply, but saying you'll report if they don't [insert x], is against the rules.

No you misunderstand my point, I wanted it added in :) where people can not abuse others with claims of cheating 

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16 minutes ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

No you misunderstand my point, I wanted it added in :) where people can not abuse others with claims of cheating 

And all that does is create fear of reporting, if you're not cheating there's really no effect in simple claims.  The player reports you, Alex takes a look, everyone goes about their day.

There is however legal ramifications in allowing blackmail to occur on your website.

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The blackmail is what Akuryo did, and for that matter, it's a strong deterrent against cheating. Getting banned is one thing, but having 20 people own you for cheating is another.

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42 minutes ago, Inst said:

The blackmail is what Akuryo did, and for that matter, it's a strong deterrent against cheating. Getting banned is one thing, but having 20 people own you for cheating is another.

"OJ killed someone, therefore I have the right to do so."

The rule is to prevent it from happening moving forward, which means yeah, people did it to spark the situation, that doesn't make it okay, which is why the rule now exists.

Edited by Rosey Song
I meant to extend on that

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49 minutes ago, Inst said:

The blackmail is what Akuryo did, and for that matter, it's a strong deterrent against cheating. Getting banned is one thing, but having 20 people own you for cheating is another.

Even then, my threat wasn't not to report him. My threat was to not let the whole world know resulting in his entire 100 member AA being sodomized by the whole planet. :P

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29 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Even then, my threat wasn't not to report him. My threat was to not let the whole world know resulting in his entire 100 member AA being sodomized by the whole planet. :P

A lot of times, friends threaten to report friends to get them to stop doing something stupid. That technically makes them fall under the moderation is a weapon rule, no?

My point re: Rosey is more that the threat of blackmail instead of straight getting nation strikes or bans etc is a powerful deterrent, which is why it should stay.

Edited by Inst

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The only thing those fake VM messages were good for was weeding out the windowlickers that play PnW in light mode.

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23 minutes ago, Inst said:

A lot of times, friends threaten to report friends to get them to stop doing something stupid. That technically makes them fall under the moderation is a weapon rule, no?

My point re: Rosey is more that the threat of blackmail instead of straight getting nation strikes or bans etc is a powerful deterrent, which is why it should stay.

Okay, you might want to actually go back and read who's saying what.  That's not blackmail, and doesn't fall into the category being punished from what Alex said.  That's what Elijah is pushing to be added to these rules, and what Alex and I are saying is silly to do.

 

Telling your friend to stop doing something or you'll report them for it is promoting good behaviour, telling them you'll report them for doing it unless they do something for you I.E. NPO, or give you something, I.E. akuryo, is blackmail.

*I'll also note akuryo has clarified it wasn't the threat of reporting that was leveraged, but the threat of posting it, but it's still blackmail*

Edited by Rosey Song
Example added.

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16 minutes ago, Avakael said:

The only thing those fake VM messages were good for was weeding out the windowlickers that play PnW in light mode.

Honestly man, I'm too lazy to keep changing it on every damn device I buy or download.  I open in in chrome, it's dark, I open it in opera, it's light, I open on my old phone it was dark, I open on my new one, it's still light.  Needs to be a universal setting.

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17 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

Honestly man, I'm too lazy to keep changing it on every damn device I buy or download.  I open in in chrome, it's dark, I open it in opera, it's light, I open on my old phone it was dark, I open on my new one, it's still light.  Needs to be a universal setting.

Akuryo and Dio were blackmailing Pooball in an attempt to get a confession out of him; I'm not making it political, just putting an example of something that already happened and was generally beneficial.

 

As for VM-impersonation, the problem is that there's different variants suited for different mobile layouts and desktop layouts. A proper fake VM mode would require multiple instances of the fake VM message being sent. The fake VM message isn't supposed to work 100% of the time, it's less a cloak of invisibility than it is an partial deterrent, like camouflage uniforms that don't cover the face.

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27 minutes ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

About time a rule was brought in to stop moderation being used as a weapon. A welcome change indeed.

Your name is ironic in this statement.

1 hour ago, Inst said:

-snip-

We're not disagreeing on this.  We're disagreeing if that's appropriate, to which the answer is no.

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2 hours ago, Rosey Song said:

Honestly man, I'm too lazy to keep changing it on every damn device I buy or download.  I open in in chrome, it's dark, I open it in opera, it's light, I open on my old phone it was dark, I open on my new one, it's still light.  Needs to be a universal setting.

Yes. You still deserve to be rolled, but yes, light/dark should be a universal setting.

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1 hour ago, Rosey Song said:

Your name is ironic in this statement.

We're not disagreeing on this.  We're disagreeing if that's appropriate, to which the answer is no.

Being there for "MK controls the mods", "so-and-so rival controls the mods", etc, with people operating passed-on nations for cash generation, etc etc etc, blackmailing for major rules violations should not be a crime.

 

According to certain people in your coalition, NR's exploit was endemic before the war began; NR was just really bad at hiding it. That purports a major problem, i.e, people either think that everyone is exploiting, so now it's okay for them to exploit, or that everyone does exploit, which means the moderation regime is a shambles. Part of that was the "moderation is not a weapon" type rule, mods should be deployed aggressively by users at any given moment for any political or personal advantage. That, at least, gets people to try to tiptoe the rules to avoid getting hit by this weapon. The alternative is a lack of effective enforcement.

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