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Really NPO


Wendell
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14 hours ago, Changeup said:

What really makes me upset here is that New Pacific Order wants to keep these new players away from the community. The best part of PW is not the game (which broke down again tonight by the way) but the community in my opinion. I realize that there are some people who would find it hilarious to troll new players, but they seem to be few and far between and tbh I would expect people to recognize a trolling attempt when they see it. Stop keeping your members cloistered up and let them experience the community, it's for their own good. 

Only been here for a short time and the community is not the best part about this game xD

 

I'm not sure why anyone is upset at all really. NPO recruited a bunch of players. What orders they give is up to their members to follow. They don't have to follow them if they don't want to and they can always leave on their own accord or go check the forums on their own and make their own informed decisions. You all are acting like NPO just enslaved a bunch of people but really I think you are scared that them bringing a potential 300 new nations into future wars is the real deal.

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Reminder that these players aren't actually NPO members, or NPO recruits, they were invited by an NPO member who is learning how to lead an alliance that will be made up of these people. :P

Chillax and let them get their crap straight. It's already up to about 300, it's gonna take some leg work.

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Someone save this as Worst Thread of the Year, please.

Look, if an alliance has the capability to mass recruit, let em be.  The newer players will eventually figure things out on their own.

No need to white knight for them.  Also, lol@poaching.  People still worry about that too?

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2 hours ago, Edward I said:

1) The insinuation that NPO is manipulating these folks. It's the same old "NPO members are mindless fools, NPO's gov are duplicitous manipulators sitting on a throne of lies and deceit" narrative, but applied to a new group. Like Charles said, not only are we not manipulating this community, we wouldn't be capable of doing so if we wanted to. They're exercising their own best judgment here. 

Okay, take down the NPO flag on THEIR alliance cut treaties and let them choose their own leaders, Mister "They aren't NPO or influenced by them."

15 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Someone save this as Worst Thread of the Year, please. 

Thanks I'm honored.

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1 hour ago, Malal said:

I agree that this is bad for the game. There is nothing worse than weebs and we must drive them out before it's too late and sheepy is forced to rename this game Politics & Weebs.

 

I am self-proclaiming myself leader of the anti-anime alliance(AAA) and naming sir scarfalot as community crusher, alyster as anime annihilator, epi as kiddy killer, and Partiboi as snek. Roq will be proclaimed as fluffy enemy #1 and must be destroyed in order for A3 to succeed.

This is a desperate gamble in order to save P&W and I expect very few people to survive, which is why I'm willing to (temporarily) work with kpop scum, nasty furries, and even The Kid in order to achieve this goal. We must all put our diffrences aside to save PW from becoming entangled in the weeb web.

This should be a thing. Cross alliance, cross coalitions bipartisan effort. Something to unite all man kind in a fight against all weeab kind. 

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4 hours ago, Edward I said:

1) The insinuation that NPO is manipulating these folks. It's the same old "NPO members are mindless fools, NPO's gov are duplicitous manipulators sitting on a throne of lies and deceit" narrative, but applied to a new group. Like Charles said, not only are we not manipulating this community, we wouldn't be capable of doing so if we wanted to. They're exercising their own best judgment here.

2) The notion that "the community" (meaning the game at large and active posters in particular) gets to decide what's best for them. First of all, "the community" very much included them the second they made non-multi nations, so acting as though they need to do something to gain admission to it is pretty scummy. Second of all, acting as though they owe "the community" anything - interaction, access, etc. - by dint of having more than a dozen new nations on a single AA is also pretty dumb. Older players are entitled to exactly nothing as far as new players and new alliances go.

The line between drama and toxicity is, generally, the line between IC and OOC. It's the line between knowing what "no thank you" means and hunting down invites to Discord servers that you've been explicitly told you're not wanted in; it's the line between voicing displeasure at your lack of access here and insinuating that other people are mindless drones; it's the line between expressing concern for your alliance's future strategic position and claiming that 300 new members on a single alliance will kill the game.

1) That’s all fine and dandy that they have their own free will, but how is it toxic? It’s a narrative that’s being pushed likely for FA purposes. I highly doubt people know about the NPO members behind the screen or have any ill will towards them. Instead it’s more like an effort to discredit/manipulate IC, just like IQ does towards opposing spheres. (Personally I think it’s great that more people are joining, although the screenshot of them being instructed to only stay on their anime server is the part that is a bummer. The people that are bellyaching that “ZOMG, NPO are puppet masters and this is terrible that they have all of these new nations coming in blah blah blah” are being boobs imo (no offense to boobs). Stop whining.)

2) They don’t have to do anything. It’s a game. They can chill and never log in again/they could be super active only in their anime server/they could be super active in the active community at large. Personally the only complaint I have is that I would like to see them (the new large group of PnW people) interact with others more, because I think it would be healthier for the game to have more outside views/voices/activity and selfishly I think it’s fun to talk to new people.

 

I feel like the points you addressed are mostly IC (the first point especially). The second point isn’t so much a point of toxicity as it is an opinion on how to approach the community. I don’t really see an OOC attack. “YOU’RE PREVENTING THEM FROM INTERACTING OOC! SLAVE MASTERS!” - this sentiment doesn’t come from any credible source. If anything it’s IC, and should be taken as such. If anyone is accusing you of things OOC on this topic - they’re not toxic, they’re dumb.

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4 hours ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

Poaching from who? These are new members who aren't in a proper alliance and who like NPO said, need help and should be welcomed into the game.

It shouldn't matter where the help is coming from, should it? 

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Between the rolling of allies, rolling of former allies, whatever the frick that bank stuff was, slot filling/onside beige farming and cheering of deletions, this doesn't even register. Let see how many stick through the usual high attrition of noobs the game has to even reach an spot where they can make an impact.

Keep an eye on that bank though. Don't want it to "accidentally" end up on a new nation.

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2 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

1) That’s all fine and dandy that they have their own free will, but how is it toxic? It’s a narrative that’s being pushed likely for FA purposes. I highly doubt people know about the NPO members behind the screen or have any ill will towards them. Instead it’s more like an effort to discredit/manipulate IC, just like IQ does towards opposing spheres. (Personally I think it’s great that more people are joining, although the screenshot of them being instructed to only stay on their anime server is the part that is a bummer. The people that are bellyaching that “ZOMG, NPO are puppet masters and this is terrible that they have all of these new nations coming in blah blah blah” are being boobs imo (no offense to boobs). Stop whining.)

 

It's not entirely IC. A lot of the time it reflects an OOC criticism that we're somehow oppressive and ruining stuff for people. Like I've never said to anyone that x ruins the game for their members or people they bring in. It blurs the line between an OOC moral judgement and an IC especially when the criticisms are often rooted in like OOC political opinions. It's hard to separate but the issue is mainly people attack on econ/orders by diktat and don't criticize fa/war decisions made by fiat, so it becomes specifically rooted in targetting us rather than actual emphasis on individual freedom, decision-making, and so forth. We would see more demand for democracy and voting if it were the case. Anyone who follows orders to attack can be labeled a drone or having stuff decided for them. It was pretty much said they are not going to have "fun" being our supposed pawns which is already a value judgement.

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3 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

1) That’s all fine and dandy that they have their own free will, but how is it toxic? It’s a narrative that’s being pushed likely for FA purposes. I highly doubt people know about the NPO members behind the screen or have any ill will towards them. Instead it’s more like an effort to discredit/manipulate IC, just like IQ does towards opposing spheres. (Personally I think it’s great that more people are joining, although the screenshot of them being instructed to only stay on their anime server is the part that is a bummer. The people that are bellyaching that “ZOMG, NPO are puppet masters and this is terrible that they have all of these new nations coming in blah blah blah” are being boobs imo (no offense to boobs). Stop whining.)

There's a difference between jokes or propaganda and attacking a community. I don't pretend to have a perfect definition of the distinction, but I say the conduct of many of the critics here counts as the latter.

NPO understands it's a collectivist group. We've had a running joke for years in both CN and PW that the government is a hivemind. Jokes or propaganda about Roqbots and communism are fine; I think most of them are pretty funny.

However, comments like this one aren't jokes about NPO's tax rates; they're full-on attacks on the model and culture of NPO's community. The consistent, obvious implication of such comments is that NPO isn't a legitimate group - that we prevent members from playing PW and brainwash them into keeping their nations alive, thereby allowing a small group of leaders to have undue amounts of power.

That same bogus line of reasoning has been reapplied here almost verbatim. NPO didn't set up and doesn't own the Discord server in question. NPO lent its bank alliance only because the new players signed up before deciding on a group identity, leadership structure, or purpose in PW. The decision to use NPO's bank AA, to keep the Discord server private, and to characterize other PW Discord servers the way they were was made by the group's leadership; not NPO's.

The newbies here aren't brain-dead and aren't being controlled by NPO any more than NPO's own members are. Forgive us if we're tired of having the very format of our community assaulted and if we're impatient when the same rhetorical BS is directed at others.

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2) They don’t have to do anything. It’s a game. They can chill and never log in again/they could be super active only in their anime server/they could be super active in the active community at large. Personally the only complaint I have is that I would like to see them (the new large group of PnW people) interact with others more, because I think it would be healthier for the game to have more outside views/voices/activity and selfishly I think it’s fun to talk to new people.

You didn't do anything obnoxious as far as I've seen, and I think your various community engagement projects have been (and are) laudable. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have, and I wish many others shared it. They apparently don't, though.

Instead, much of the commentary is that these players are "being kept from the community". That's a load of horse crap being used as a rhetorical cudgel, mostly by people who don't like NPO, and mostly as yet another way to say the things I pointed out above.

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I feel like the points you addressed are mostly IC (the first point especially). The second point isn’t so much a point of toxicity as it is an opinion on how to approach the community. I don’t really see an OOC attack. “YOU’RE PREVENTING THEM FROM INTERACTING OOC! SLAVE MASTERS!” - this sentiment doesn’t come from any credible source. If anything it’s IC, and should be taken as such. If anyone is accusing you of things OOC on this topic - they’re not toxic, they’re dumb.

In response to the first point, there's a reason that Discord server is private, and it's more than a little irksome that people think they're entitled to access it. Their failure to accept and tolerate a different approach to community-building is a problem.

In response to the second point, I'll again refer you to the first part of my response here. I think it pretty much covers my thoughts on the matter.

In response to the third point, dumb and toxic aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not calling this behavior out because it's dumb (although it is); I'm calling it out because it's the latest installment in a long, corrosive pattern.

Edited by Edward I
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1 hour ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Let's all just reflect on the fact that people here are angry that NPO is helping generate interest in the game and providing more players to the game as a whole. 

I thought both coalitions had the stated goal of killing this game? We decided it when we all joined Rose that one time.

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11 minutes ago, Epi said:

Busy busy. 

Welcome Goons, looks like NPO has lit the fires under something awful. Or at least built the fire place. 

Actually we were approached by someone who isn't in NPO and wasn't affiliated with NPO before this. I don't really expect a huge turnout so it's very much just them doing an interest check for the time being. This isn't something we instigated.

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