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Guest Curufinwe
7 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Again, tell me, when was the last time that I was ever anything but polite and helpful to a new player? Was it me that gave them a hard time on the discord? I "smuggest" you look at how I have actually acted towards new players before continuing this slanderous attack on me, because I have taken no such actions, ever.

Alright, I'm going to change tack and try something a little different here.  The point Big Brother, Keshav and others have been trying, thus far unsuccessfully, to get through to you is that, irrespective of your conduct elsewhere, your behaviour on the OWF (including in this thread) comes off as pretty damn toxic.  If this bothers you, and it appears that it does based on your reaction, you should probably bear in mind that responding to an influx of new players who haven't even finished getting set up yet (much less formed an AA or fully familiarized themselves with Orbis politics) by claiming that 'THEY'RE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT NOOBS WHO ARE BEING BRAINWASHED BY NPO AND CUT OFF FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD BY ROQ AND I MUST SHOW THEM WHAT FREEDOM IS' rather than, say, welcoming them to the game is a pretty hostile and unwelcoming reaction to new additions to the community.  Maybe you're the most friendly person around as far as new players are concerned, but based on how you conduct yourself publicly (which is the sum of the experience most people who frequent the OWF have of you), it's entirely reasonable to point to your posts in this and other threads as evidence that you're someone new players will want to steer clear of to avoid a torrent of hostile rhetoric.  The good news is that if you don't want to be singled out as an example 'that toxic guy to you'd do well to avoid' it's entirely in your power to change that, since (at least as far as I know) no one is forcing you to make the sorts of posts you do.  So yeah, if having this reputation bothers you, you'd probably do better toning down the content in your posts, rather than getting defensive and accusing other people of slandering you when they quote things you've said in the past.

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1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

You're being completely unreasonable to take my public condemnation of Roq's actions as indicative of how I talk to new players. You're also being absolutely unreasonable to say that me challenging his saying that I'm personally toxic is somehow me being personally toxic. I've been completely consistent in saying that I want these new players to make their own informed decisions, and I stand by that. If you feel that's proving that I'm a toxic, noob-hating !@#$, then all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm not taking your public condemnation of Roq's actions as indicative of how you talk to new players. In my very first response to you I made that very clear by writing "I don't know how you talk to people in Discord or in any place other than the forums, but for someone who's only basis for judging how you communicate with people is the forums, you would appear pretty toxic, as evidenced by this thread."

I clearly stated that I'm not judging your interactions with people in other places than the forums so I don't know why you're trying to claim I'm doing so. If you're going to deliberately ignore parts of my post in your arguments then we really have nothing more to talk about. Additionally, it's not unreasonable to claim that your reactions in this thread have been toxic just because that was what you're accused of being. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. You could have responded in a non-toxic manner yet you chose not to do so. I'm not attempting to judge you as a person, I don't really care about you or have anything against you, I'm just providing commentary and judgment on your conduct in this particular thread because I believe you're reacting to this whole thing in a poor manner. Like I mentioned before, how you behave or talk to people anywhere else is irrelevant to me and the discussion I started with you.

Edit: I didn't see @Curufinwe's post before posting my own but he is 100% correct and that's exactly the point I was making. Honestly Scarf, if I showed all those new players what you said about them in your first post here, do you think they'd consider you to be friendly or hostile? As much as you might like to believe it, your good behavior elsewhere really doesn't excuse your bad behavior on this forum or in this particular thread.

Edited by Big Brother
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Guest PhantomThiefB
2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Again, tell me, when was the last time that I was ever anything but polite and helpful to a new player? Was it me that gave them a hard time on the discord? I suggest you look at how I have actually acted towards new players before continuing this slanderous attack on me, because I have taken no such actions, ever.

 

I've been here for just under a month and you'd be surprised. When I joined I knew of a few alliances from CN however I had no idea what to expect as far as OWF or IC since it has been well over a decade(since playing CN). I post a welcome thread and oh what do you know the first thing that happens is I get labeled for my alliance choice. Just some food for thought buddy, though I fully expect you and your side of the spectrum to disregard my opinion on the sole basis of my AA. SMH.?

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When I joined, there was never really any toxicity coming from TKR/Chaos, Rose or IQ. (not even Prefontaine really; even though Bourann tried blaming him for having me mass downvoted)

Although Scarfalot personally was never really unpleasant toward me. Do think that sphere should maybe reflect a little bit on why and whether all the toxicity benefits them at all. They've probably limited a lot of people from ever working with them due to some of their forum antics.

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Anyone yet stopped in all their textwalling to ask "why are we letting this thread be a thing?"

You've told scarf the same thing 2 dozen times now I think that's plenty enough, all anyone needs to do is facepalm at the utter genius that is deulos and move on. ?

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12 hours ago, Roquentin said:

People like scarfalot are the exact reason and if outright trolling people wasn't a main mode of communication on the official server, it wouldn't be an issue. Alex would have to put some stricter rules if you don't want people avoiding it for toxicity. A few times I've thought of just having a generic server dedicated to welcoming people who join the game in general. For most people it's a turn off to have open trolling. 

Okay, no more trolling guys. It's actually hurting his feelings.

6 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

You've told scarf the same thing 2 dozen times now I think that's plenty enough, all anyone needs to do is facepalm at the utter genius that is deulos and move on. ?

You know why don't you go back to tending your micro. Your baby chicks need you. ????

 

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3 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Anyone yet stopped in all their textwalling to ask "why are we letting this thread be a thing?"

You've told scarf the same thing 2 dozen times now I think that's plenty enough, all anyone needs to do is facepalm at the utter genius that is deulos and move on. ?

I don't think its really that specific to Scarfalot, seeing as with me he's been civil at least.Although I was pretty sure Sketchy enjoyed playing the clown on the forum or was a pathological liar for a while since he believed some dumb lies from Bourann. Wasn't until way later it was finally cleared up with him his opinion on me was based on a fictional story by Bourann; which didn't even make sense. (Bourann for some reason told people I wanted to know where he lived, maybe to inflate his own sense of importance?)

Either way I consider Scarfalot better than they; the spreading of dumb lies about me to inflate the hippo's sense of importance actually annoyed me more than all the down votes. Don't like needing to clear up confusion from somebody i don't know making up fictional stories about me & acting like everyone else is the problem when I notice him conspiring. :P

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6 hours ago, Big Brother said:

 

Besides, regardless of how much some people would like to believe it, these new people joining aren't mindless drones that do whatever they're told. They're just as capable of independent thought as you or I. I find it really difficult to believe that you are genuinely of the opinion that every single one of these 200+ nations are forever going to remain entirely isolated from the rest of the P&W community. They will inevitably become involved with the rest of the community at some point if they keep playing and they will reach out on their own if they want to. I think the best thing any of us could do, whether we're just happy to see new players join or if you think it's a bad thing that new players are supposedly being isolated in the "NPO camp", would be to be open and welcoming towards them and introduce them to the rest of the community in a friendly manner.

 

I came to post something similar, you beat me to it.

Respect.

Edited by Charles the Tyrant
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@Roquentin, where is all of this “toxicity” located? I’ve been away for a moment - Maybe things have changed over the last month or two. However, from where I’m at the only thing I’m seeing is drama, which is something that all sides have been a proponent for. The consensus was that drama made the political atmosphere interesting. Granted, I know that KT’s channel is probably considered “toxic” by most based on the topics discussed there. But other than that...what am I missing? Am I viewing things too exclusively IC?

Where do you draw the line between “drama” and “toxicity”?

Edited by Kevanovia

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11 hours ago, Roquentin said:

It's just a group of people with a common interest not related to the game and someone wanted them to try it out.  It's more just to avoid negativity while they're starting it up. P

If anyone believes this I have a lakeside cottage to sell you in Arizona.

Edited by Deulos
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5 hours ago, Epi said:

They're also going to be running 100/100 similar to NPO, at least from what I've heard. So are we going to be seeing Plane Strat 3.0 Revenge of the RoqBots?

It's a giant tax farm. Lol

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1 minute ago, Deulos said:

It's a giant tax farm. Lol

?‍♂️ Find your own group of folks that you can mass migrate over. It just seems like complaining, they didn’t break any rules. 

The only legitimate gripe is the attempt to block them from the rest of the community. I believe there is an argument that keeping them isolated hurts the community/dynamic of the game.

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II’m struggling to see the big deal in this to be honest.

No doubt NPO will try to get some advantage from this be it new members, new allies or just resource farms etc.

That’s to just be expected and I suspect others would do much the same in the same position.

But to think that NPO will have some sort of mind control over 300, or however many eventually end up joining, and ultimately dictate who these new members associate with and talk to is just simply ludicrous. People will naturally talk to whoever they wish to. I suspect if NPO did try to “control” 300 newbies, they would no doubt face an open revolt simply due to more independent minded players thinking otherwise. That’s just human nature at the end of the day and I’m sure NPO knows that.

Plus, new members are always a good thing and we should roll out the welcome mat. Based on NPO’s comments in this thread about welcoming new members, I’m sure they wouldn’t mind if other alliances got in touch with the newbies and offered them assistance in setting up their alliance or alliances given the sheer amount of nations who have come across.

NPO don’t own them after all, I’m sure NPO wouldn’t mind the help.

Edited by Charles the Tyrant
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1 minute ago, Kevanovia said:

?‍♂️ Find your own group of folks that you can mass migrate over. It just seems like complaining, they didn’t break any rules. 

The only legitimate gripe is the attempt to block them from the rest of the community. I believe there is an argument that keeping them isolated hurts the community/dynamic of the game.

Its not like they couldn't really go against their advice if they wanted to. Giving them a few days get their stuff in order before dealing with a bunch of alliances might not be so bad. If they're kept isolated weeks, maybe it would get more odd. Although they still haven't figured out a name and learning I guess.

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18 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

@Roquentin, where is all of this “toxicity” located? I’ve been away for a moment - Maybe things have changed over the last month or two. However, from where I’m at the only thing I’m seeing is drama, which is something that all sides have been a proponent for. The consensus was that drama made the political atmosphere interesting. Granted, I know that KT’s channel is probably considered “toxic” by most based on the topics discussed there. But other than that...what am I missing? Am I viewing things too exclusively IC?

Where do you draw the line between “drama” and “toxicity”?

Everything anti NPO is considered toxic and gaslighting of players. Did you not get the memo? 

 

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2 hours ago, Deulos said:

If anyone believes this I have a lakeside cottage to sell you in Arizona.

https://www.trulia.com/AZ/Lakeside/?cid=sem|google|tbw_nb_dmadsa_phoenixaz_url_nat_x_d_g_1|tbw_nb_dmadsa_phoenixaz_url_nat_x_d_g_1_lakeside_az_x_x_x|dsa-766410196481|378426007158|&gclid=CjwKCAjwkenqBRBgEiwA-bZVtp9VQr76slIRwa7DVAtZeVZNCUoS958_tvmsaRoRV62Ql5iaJlAZPBoCWiAQAvD_BwE

2 hours ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

NPO don’t own them after all, I’m sure NPO wouldn’t mind the help.

Except it’s not help, it’s poisoning the well and poaching. 

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2 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

@Roquentin, where is all of this “toxicity” located? I’ve been away for a moment - Maybe things have changed over the last month or two. However, from where I’m at the only thing I’m seeing is drama, which is something that all sides have been a proponent for. The consensus was that drama made the political atmosphere interesting. Granted, I know that KT’s channel is probably considered “toxic” by most based on the topics discussed there. But other than that...what am I missing? Am I viewing things too exclusively IC?

Where do you draw the line between “drama” and “toxicity”?

1) The insinuation that NPO is manipulating these folks. It's the same old "NPO members are mindless fools, NPO's gov are duplicitous manipulators sitting on a throne of lies and deceit" narrative, but applied to a new group. Like Charles said, not only are we not manipulating this community, we wouldn't be capable of doing so if we wanted to. They're exercising their own best judgment here.

2) The notion that "the community" (meaning the game at large and active posters in particular) gets to decide what's best for them. First of all, "the community" very much included them the second they made non-multi nations, so acting as though they need to do something to gain admission to it is pretty scummy. Second of all, acting as though they owe "the community" anything - interaction, access, etc. - by dint of having more than a dozen new nations on a single AA is also pretty dumb. Older players are entitled to exactly nothing as far as new players and new alliances go.

The line between drama and toxicity is, generally, the line between IC and OOC. It's the line between knowing what "no thank you" means and hunting down invites to Discord servers that you've been explicitly told you're not wanted in; it's the line between voicing displeasure at your lack of access here and insinuating that other people are mindless drones; it's the line between expressing concern for your alliance's future strategic position and claiming that 300 new members on a single alliance will kill the game.

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16 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

So, after running out of natives to betray/lie to/gaslight, you decide to attempt to flood the game with ignorant newbies in the hopes of getting more people for cannonfodder.

What do you even hope to achieve from this? They'll have no fun being your pawns, and you'll gain nothing you don't already have. You're still losing, and even a million nations won't change that.

I fail to see how we are lossing, your side has already lost you've just not come to terms with the loss just yet. Taking out that frustation on people whom bare no fault of their own for the current political situation and calling them "cannonfodder", or "pawns" is just being a dick. You're simply making assumptions due to your biases against the NPO, if you have a community outside this game who you think might enjoy themselves then go right ahead and invite them, just have some perspective for once and don't post mindless ramblings on the OFW.

12 hours ago, Madden8021 said:

Wow, whoever wrote that must of been a moron.

Not really contributing anything to benefit the dicussion here mate.

8 hours ago, MRBOOTY said:

snip

Agreed 100%, these guys will be ages away from shifting any potential balance in NPO's favour and by then I'd wager several would've deleted, left and joined new alliances or gone inactive. The fact is we've had an influx of new players to the game which is a net positive and instead people are being salty because they can't put OOC aside for one minute and are just using it to attack NPO. I admit when it first happened I was at first a bit wary but after thinking about it absoultely no harm can be done from this recruitment drive as more nations means a more fuflfiling game. (Asuming Alex's dodgy servers can hold up), 

2 hours ago, Deulos said:

It's a giant tax farm. Lol

So? Even if it is if they don't get something out of it they'll leave. People accept the 100/100 taxes in NPO because they believe in the community and support their fellow members. Regardless your opinions aren't really important on this anyway, since being an online game the members in that AA have every choice to walk away if they want to.

Edited by Sphinx
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