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Really NPO


Wendell
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10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Shut the frick up and cry in a corner, you are boring now.

Very nice rebuttal, I'm sure you're proud of yourself. I'll take that as the concession of the point that it is.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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3 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

Deep breaths, Scarf. Deep breaths. It'll be okay. Just relax. He just used you as an example and frankly, I don't know how you talk to people in Discord or in any place other than the forums, but for someone who's only basis for judging how you communicate with people is the forums, you would appear pretty toxic, as evidenced by this thread. I'm sure you can be a perfectly nice and polite person but if one of your points in this thread was to prove how you're not toxic, you did the exact reverse of that, at least from my point of view. Every single one of your posts seems like a knee-jerk reaction to what you perceived as a personal offense and it really looks like you're nitpicking to find the slightest thing to attack NPO over. Personally, I've seen how some of these new nations were greeted in the P&W server and I can't blame anyone for recommending them to stay away.

Besides, regardless of how much some people would like to believe it, these new people joining aren't mindless drones that do whatever they're told. They're just as capable of independent thought as you or I. I find it really difficult to believe that you are genuinely of the opinion that every single one of these 200+ nations are forever going to remain entirely isolated from the rest of the P&W community. They will inevitably become involved with the rest of the community at some point if they keep playing and they will reach out on their own if they want to. I think the best thing any of us could do, whether we're just happy to see new players join or if you think it's a bad thing that new players are supposedly being isolated in the "NPO camp", would be to be open and welcoming towards them and introduce them to the rest of the community in a friendly manner.

I'm encouraging them to reach out and connect with the community and make informed decisions of their own, so I'm the one being toxic here?

Yes, actually, I think I do consider being specifically named as the archetypal toxic and hateful individual towards new players as being something of a personal attack against me. If you don't see how I might just maybe be getting that impression, well, I really don't know what I can do for you.

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I am a bit biased here to be fair, but as Kev (who has ignored all my messages for weeks) said it would be cool to have them in Factory Fresh Media or another friendly discord server. I feel like in voice chats and radio shows especially it's much harder to dislike the other side because they're clearly just playing the game like we are.

I think it was a little weird and silly to tell these people to ignore all of the in-game ads and servers, but I do understand that there are in fact not so great parts of this game that could scare people away. I also get that it wasn't NPO that told them this, and that it was the anime group. That said, telling people they should only discuss P&W in one closed area and not interact with anyone else is a little unnerving. 

 

Sir Scarfoot, I don't think that there is any nefarious conspiracy going on here. These nations are YEARS away from being relevant to the meta, even if they were brought in to boost NPO. I don't think you should be so quick to assume negative intentions from NPO. I very much want to beat them in this war too, and am tirelessly fighting, but I've seen little to no classless behavior on their side that warrants this level of forum anger.

Edited by MRBOOTY
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2 hours ago, Madden8021 said:

Because the new players are used for the war only and then it seems that once its over that they can choose to leave or stay. Idk what their plan is anyway?

Im sorry wht? are you saying a bunch of 200 score nations are gonna join the war? I mean ok 

  • "We ruin the countries we govern and the people in our care. We slaughter our enemies and sacrifice all our allies. We’ll keep killing till there’s nothing left but to destroy ourselves. It will never be enough"
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I'll be surprised if half are still playing a week if the majority are still at almost no score and not really playing. Although if NPO builds them up during the war; they'd probably get raided like other protectorates often do if they get big enough its worth damaging them.

So during the war it might be wasteful to give them aid; although have a hard time imaging most sticking around if they're still sitting at almost no score a week from now. Giving them more freedom to see what else the game has to offer might give them a more complete experience; although can understand not wanting to give up what could potentially grow into a big army if they don't quit or the other side lets NPO build them up before fighting them (Assuming the war goes on at least 2-4 more weeks).

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2 hours ago, Madden8021 said:

Because the new players are used for the war only and then it seems that once its over that they can choose to leave or stay. Idk what their plan is anyway?

Um, there was no plan to use them for the war. Maybe for the ones that want to get more involved, but it'd be a big adjustment to suddenly build 300 people into range where they'd be relevant to the war as MrBooty said.

 

56 minutes ago, Epi said:

A 290 member alliance was created today and we can expect that to reach 500 if not more by the end of the week. Regardless of the Scarfalot-toxicity discussion, it might be a good idea to think about how this mass migration will effect the game. What their plans are and what we expect from alliances. I'm not the arbitrator of what makes an alliance or determines who can participate in politics, but they are currently (this will likely change soon) avoiding cross pollination with the PnW community and farming resources.

We have no means of stopping this, nor would we want to unless this is their long term plan, which we have no guarantee it is. So yeah, let them get settled, figure out who their friends are. It's obvious that they have strong ties to NPO since they're both larger communities not solely reliant on PnW and their leader was a member of NPO for the duration of their PnW experience, but NPO hasn't encouraged their isolationism...at minimum they haven't demanded it. Keep in mind this new alliance is driving their most active people sign up, <> it's likely they just want to avoid early poaching or large scale discouragement due to global (not naming fingers or pointing names, i'd be giving TKR shit if they spawned 400 nations into the game on a Monday).

ah, looks like i sorta addressed the toxicity discussion anyway, but eh, i wasn't hoping to. Anyhow, if these guys are moving beyond a farm in the coming weeks, 300 new players (a lot will drop off), is still absurd and we can expect them to grow rapidly due to Sheepy's early game buffs. They're also going to be running 100/100 similar to NPO, at least from what I've heard. So are we going to be seeing Plane Strat 3.0 Revenge of the RoqBots?

Furthermore, despite their rapid growth they'll still be isolated in the lower tiers if they plan to tier (which of course they will, why not seize the opportunity after arriving en mass). If we thought IQ's tiering was insane. Imagine 300 nations at the same city count. They could single handedly dominate the under 16 range for the next 1-2 years with a little momentum...and imagine if a certain ocean themed alliance helped fund their early cities. It might make this 'irrelevant alliance' a lot more relevant very quickly.

As for my own personal complaints about their treatment of other PnW players that could be chalked up to morning paranoia. They wanted to make their arrival a surprise and they accidentally botched the slow burn they'd planned. Anyone who spoiled that was likely to meet the same fate as the few people who did get banned. Downside is, when you're a public discord with 30,000 people, it's not surprising there are already 10+ pnw players who wake up surprised <> and are eager to share what they know with their respective alliances.

My other major complaint was that they had in place a method to totally restrict their members from joining any other PnW alliance, by denying services their discord offered. That's their choice and it's my choice to generally dislike it :p. But after giving it some thought, even if this community has no intention of participating in our collective community. At least it buffs up the numbers, introduces a new dynamic in a stagnant tier and increases awareness about the game that might attract other players and communities. 

This is a jumble of ideas and things I've picked up. But mainly i just wanted to steer the discussion in a constructive direction. I'm not putting anyone down or trying to to target Pacifica, I've never harbored any ill will against you guys. But yeah, this silent and shocking mass migration really shook me and i'm surprised it isn't being discussed more. This is probably a consequence of me not playing CN with alliances of 600 people or more.

Anyway feel free to correct or debate any of the points I've mentioned or more in the same tone. E.g. What does this new alliance mean for the game?

I'm confident this will be the first day of many when we'll be discussing them on the OWF.

All this relies on the premise that a huge portion are going  to build and become part of the wider meta right away. The main thing I think you're missing is similar events have happened with other websites in other games. Most invasion sites were not really tapped for whatever reason when Alex launched the game 5 years ago in the current state, there was no effort to get mass invasion groups and it was just mainly mean invasion groups like bloc trying to do stuff.  It limited the playerbase from the get-go to just diehards from other games and some people that got recruited but most of the alliances that are statistically relevant have roots elsewhere. This made the game small and not scaled to large growth in population. 

When Fark did greenlights in other games or the imgur bomb flanderlion brought up in NS, it was literally just a try out and the proportion that stayed was always limited. The reason it hasn't happened here is there's simply too limited advertising and the donation benefits more or less guarantee a steady stream of revenue where expansion isn't a pressing concern. Like if you want an influx where they'll be tabula rasa and not affiliated with anyone, then that's sort on the administrative team to find places to advertise the game in an impartial manner. The over reliance on the players themselves to bring communities over is one of the biggest problems the game has. It's unprecedented to sort of ask people to spread people they brought over. 

The person invited them for the benefit of some people and as you said we don't really stand to gain by giving everyone else easy troll or poaching access early on. I really had no prior knowledge and I'm sure the turn out was unexpected as there are a lot 30k discord servers where this would get a tumbleweed. We just don't really feel an overarching obligation to expose them to the current levels of toxicity. We usually take the high road and avoid all the bait on the PW server, but we have no real need to go out of our way to facilitate trolling and/or anti-NPO rhetoric. As I said, if there's a desire to have a safe and welcoming environment for players then it's gonna require structure and moderation. As of now however, people are expecting saintliness from us when we have had a ton of messed up rhetoric thrown our way on there the entire run.

 

 

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These players should be able to approach people they might be interested in aligning if they tire of their current situation. Even without people mass messaging; sure they can read the forums. If they end up quitting out of unwillingness to explore past their starting point despite boredom with it; game probably wouldn't have kept their attention anyways.

On the bright side for some maybe; with a massive army they could potentially build up; maybe NPO will be interested in peace sooner to get started. :P

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I don't see why everyone's upset about it. It's just a typical RoqBot doing their jobs. 

Besides, KERCHTOGG will still win so there's nothing to be upset about:D

Edited by Hassan
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5 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

If the game was receiving new players for the benefit of the community, then they'd be encouraging the new players to participate in the community. But that's explicitly not what's happening here; they're being deliberately kept away from the community, lest they find somewhere other than NPO to be to their liking.

Im really getting sick of reading your crappy rhetoric, if you would bother to learn more or read some you may understand a bit of what is actually going on

 

Yes there were advised by their leader (NOT NPO) to stay away from the community, however, this has been clarified to be temp measure 

   - This is a new alliance that is starting, and not a small one at that, this is almost 300 new nations that need to get settled in, this is also almost 300 members their leadership has to organize, train and help. This isn't a small task at all and it will help absolutely no one, them or the community to allow people to jump in their server and talk to people, all this will do is confuse people and derail it 

 

If you would take just a moment to pull your head out of your ass you may realize that this isn't a giant scheme to piss you off personally and that NPO assisted in bringing 300 new players into the game, assisting them at setting up an alliance and trying to make them active community members. So why don't you lay off for a damn while and let this new alliance get on its feet and establish a structure 

 

Edited by James T. Kirk
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It's an incredibly destabilizing move, but I have little sympathy for the KERCHTOG alliances' whining. You've been trying to keep NPO down or otherwise destroy them for half the game, and now you're surprised that NPO sets up a defended invasion alliance that's likely to end up completely destroying your lower tier?

 

Let's put it another way. NPO is the monster you made yourselves. We could very well have had an NPO hegemony 2 years ago, and smashed them 6-12 months ago. Instead, you've been constantly keeping them down so much that they've resorted to drastic measures to avoid getting killed.

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1 minute ago, Epi said:

Peace - If this war does end with a non-aggression pact (i'm not sure it will, but it's a possibility), where will this new alliance be in 6-8 months time [Tiering]. I'm not the finest economist in PnW so i'll leave that for someone else to calculate, but i think it'd be interesting to know. Frawley has probably already run the calculations in his spare time.

Expansion - their main motivator for joining PnW was the public IP/email tracing, e.g. the 'Unique IDs'. To prevent Discord Alts stealing work from their original server, this also explains why they're a bit more paranoid than most. It's just an experiment for them, but given the tremendous turn out (well exceeding their expectations in scale and ambition), it's possible that this will remain the case. That's why i doubt they'll die out en mass.

I actually think it makes sense for NPO to want people to give them some space for some days; as they have time to think on what they'd like to do some before getting poached in every direction. 6-8 months time could probably easily be around 18; possibly higher. Although that is assuming they get aid though; with them probably really needing to stand out somehow atm for that. Without any initial aid though, could take months to reach where they'd get in a week with an alliance aiding.

If the other side does peace now, might allow NPO/BK to double the tier dominance they have around there for the next war. So will be interesting if this ends up effecting whether the other side wants peace anymore due to paranoia of their own. Although if people think NPO/BK is game breaking; another 200+ nations tiered in that same range would be interesting if it happened. Although some might just try tiering out of range and not care as well. :P

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1 minute ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

 

I actually think it makes sense for NPO to want people to give them some space for some days; as they have time to think on what they'd like to do some before getting poached in every direction. 6-8 months time could probably easily be around 18; possibly higher. Although that is assuming they get aid though; with them probably really needing to stand out somehow atm for that. Without any initial aid though, could take months to reach where they'd get in a week with an alliance aiding.

If the other side does peace now, might allow NPO/BK to double the tier dominance they have around there for the next war. So will be interesting if this ends up effecting whether the other side wants peace anymore due to paranoia of their own. Although if people think NPO/BK is game breaking; another 200+ nations tiered in that same range would be interesting if it happened. Although some might just try tiering out of range and not care as well. :P

I see the introduction of this invasion alliance as more giving NPO the ability to decide its own fate for the first time in the game. NPO is no longer reactive post-war, but can choose its foreign policy direction independent of all the old bullshit that's accumulated over the years.

 

I think the invasion alliance will likely reach Avg C13, with what's left of it (expecting 75% attrition), by the time the next war kicks off. It'll end up being targeted, and not perform as well as it'd statistically imply, but it's enough to break all the old cycles of PnW politics.

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4 minutes ago, Inst said:

 

I see the introduction of this invasion alliance as more giving NPO the ability to decide its own fate for the first time in the game. NPO is no longer reactive post-war, but can choose its foreign policy direction independent of all the old bullshit that's accumulated over the years.

 

I think the invasion alliance will likely reach Avg C13, with what's left of it (expecting 75% attrition), by the time the next war kicks off. It'll end up being targeted, and not perform as well as it'd statistically imply, but it's enough to break all the old cycles of PnW politics.

I haven't even talked with this alliance, so no idea how close they are to NPO or just NPO is helping them get setup with the game, where maybe this alliance will make unpredictable decisions. So guess a lot could happen.

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2 hours ago, Big Brother said:

Really?

You think that's.. encouraging? Wew. If you don't see how that isn't the case, I really don't know what I can do for you.

And although I don't blame you for taking what Roq posted personally, he did write "people like scarfalot", which hardly makes it seem like it was solely aimed at you. Besides, you're basically proving him right and you made yourself an obvious target for criticism of the kind of people you were grouped together with with your posts in this thread. You really only have yourself to blame for this.

You're being completely unreasonable to take my public condemnation of Roq's actions as indicative of how I talk to new players. You're also being absolutely unreasonable to say that me challenging his saying that I'm personally toxic is somehow me being personally toxic. I've been completely consistent in saying that I want these new players to make their own informed decisions, and I stand by that. If you feel that's proving that I'm a toxic, noob-hating &#33;@#&#036;, then all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that.

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1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

You're being completely unreasonable to take my public condemnation of Roq's actions as indicative of how I talk to new players. You're also being absolutely unreasonable to say that me challenging his saying that I'm personally toxic is somehow me being personally toxic. I've been completely consistent in saying that I want these new players to make their own informed decisions, and I stand by that. If you feel that's proving that I'm a toxic, noob-hating &#33;@#&#036;, then all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that.

Yet another "wonderful" post, these players will make their own decisions once their alliance is actually set up, like come the frick on man, the alliance does not even have its own name yet and you want them to participate in discussions with others. It makes zero sense  

 

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4 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

You're being completely unreasonable to take my public condemnation of Roq's actions as indicative of how I talk to new players. You're also being absolutely unreasonable to say that me challenging his saying that I'm personally toxic is somehow me being personally toxic. I've been completely consistent in saying that I want these new players to make their own informed decisions, and I stand by that. If you feel that's proving that I'm a toxic, noob-hating &#33;@#&#036;, then all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that.

Judging by your posts and rhetoric,I think it’s safe to assume that if anyone asks me to ever recommend turning up here or any other public space in this game that you haunt, I’d recommend against it.

There are very few spaces safe in this game for new players thanks to the trolling and general toxicity in public. Even more so to people who don’t buy into your cultural mores or norms. Given that here are three hundred people experimenting and wanting time to figure out the game without needing to deal with accusations of being bots/Multis or being fed bullshit political meta to scare them out of the game, I concur in recommending them to take the time they need before venturing out. At the end of the day they took that informed choice after the events on PnW discord, I smuggest you look there and at admin to make this game more welcoming before once again trying to pin the blame on roq or us with regards to your own actions and some others in the public sphere so far.

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22 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Judging by your posts and rhetoric,I think it’s safe to assume that if anyone asks me to ever recommend turning up here or any other public space in this game that you haunt, I’d recommend against it.

There are very few spaces safe in this game for new players thanks to the trolling and general toxicity in public. Even more so to people who don’t buy into your cultural mores or norms. Given that here are three hundred people experimenting and wanting time to figure out the game without needing to deal with accusations of being bots/Multis or being fed bullshit political meta to scare them out of the game, I concur in recommending them to take the time they need before venturing out. At the end of the day they took that informed choice after the events on PnW discord, I smuggest you look there and at admin to make this game more welcoming before once again trying to pin the blame on roq or us with regards to your own actions and some others in the public sphere so far.

Again, tell me, when was the last time that I was ever anything but polite and helpful to a new player? Was it me that gave them a hard time on the discord? I suggest you look at how I have actually acted towards new players before continuing this slanderous attack on me, because I have taken no such actions, ever.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
typos be typos
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5 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Judging by your posts and rhetoric,I think it’s safe to assume that if anyone asks me to ever recommend turning up here or any other public space in this game that you haunt, I’d recommend against it.

There are very few spaces safe in this game for new players thanks to the trolling and general toxicity in public. Even more so to people who don’t buy into your cultural mores or norms. Given that here are three hundred people experimenting and wanting time to figure out the game without needing to deal with accusations of being bots/Multis or being fed bullshit political meta to scare them out of the game, I concur in recommending them to take the time they need before venturing out. At the end of the day they took that informed choice after the events on PnW discord, I smuggest you look there and at admin to make this game more welcoming before once again trying to pin the blame on roq or us with regards to your own actions and some others in the public sphere so far.

Personally I'm kind of curious to get to them to find out more about their novel site & experiment. Also if I got to know them, might be more inclined to befriend some if good people. Although all of that can wait until they've got their Discord setup and such.

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32 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Again, tell me, when was the last time that I was ever anything but polite and helpful to a new player? Was it me that gave them a hard time on the discord? I "smuggest" you look at how I have actually acted towards new players before continuing this slanderous attack on me, because I have taken no such actions, ever.

No you just call for the disbandment of communities and then busy posting about slaveholder alliances. Not to mention, your posts in this thread. I like how you believe you're entitled to any benefit of the doubt or saintliness from the NPO. If someone straight up asks me as a new player who to stay away from, you'll probably be the first person who's post history I'd use as the best example of the toxicity that exists here in public and why I'd recommend staying far away from this cesspool. 

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