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On 7/19/2019 at 12:52 AM, CandyShi said:

Here's some nation's super power status:

US: 120 years (1898 - 2018) and hopefully still going

Britain: Over 300 (1600s -1945)

Roman Empire: 96 - 581 AD

Mongolian empire: 1206 - 1368

Han Dynasty: 200 BC - 200 AD

 

50 years as a superpower is pretty shit.

Basically the only reason we don't think of the Soviets like we do the Nazis (both in terms of human rights and in short-livedness) is because the actual Nazis were around at the same time.

Soviet and Stalin defenders basically only have the "Well the Nazis were worse!" argument, which isn't as impressive when you consider that the Soviets were Nazi collaborators and allies, covered up Nazi war crimes before they knew they could use them politically, and had most of the same enemies as the Nazis (hence the collaboration).

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MR BOOTY IN DA HOUSE

 

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Guest Curufinwe
1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

We understand why they got hit and they knew it was a possibility when signing us but you didn't hit them solely for being a protectorate on our side. After all, you mostly left Silenzio and House Arryn and even Clan Callan alone up until Animation Domination switched over. I can appreciate what you attempted to do from a strategic standpoint even if it isn't a move I'd have chosen to make myself. Your initial offer involved using our protectorates as bait to get us to peace the remainder of your side's micros so they would stop beiging and interrupting your strategy, which you knew our side wouldn't agree to. When we didn't, you made a second attempt to try and score a political victory by offering AD an out if they cut us (which you conveniently failed to mention here). This didn't work for the same reason your current attempt to sow dissension between us now won't work either. I appreciate your attempts to milk the situation for its full worth though. Best of luck.

Oh, I understand why you guys didn't accept our offer - TKR made the calculation that the possibility of getting free beiges from some of our smaller AAs was of greater strategic importance than providing your protectorates with an out from the war.  That doesn't change the fact that a major outcome of that decision is the more than 11b (and rising) in damage the various protectorates have sustained, which is a direct consequence of TKR opting to reject our proposal to peace them out.   Again, it's understandable why you decided to go that route (free beiges are nice, I'm told) but it doesn't change the fact that the price of those prospective beiges is leaving your protectorates to burn.  So yeah, it's fine if you're comfortable with that, but Benfro trying to claim some sort of moral high ground regarding TKR's enlightened relationship with its protectorates doesn't really fit with how things played out on the ground.  Best of luck to you as well though :) 

51 minutes ago, MRBOOTY said:

... but we are winning this war

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If that's what it looks like when Rose is winning, I'd hate to see what it'd look like when you're losing.

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2 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

Oh, I understand why you guys didn't accept our offer - TKR made the calculation that the possibility of getting free beiges from some of our smaller AAs was of greater strategic importance than providing your protectorates with an out from the war.  That doesn't change the fact that a major outcome of that decision is the more than 11b (and rising) in damage the various protectorates have sustained, which is a direct consequence of TKR opting to reject our proposal to peace them out.   Again, it's understandable why you decided to go that route (free beiges are nice, I'm told) but it doesn't change the fact that the price of those prospective beiges is leaving your protectorates to burn.  So yeah, it's fine if you're comfortable with that, but Benfro trying to claim some sort of moral high ground regarding TKR's enlightened relationship with its protectorates doesn't really fit with how things played out on the ground.  Best of luck to you as well though :) 

I like how you completely glossed over the second offer you guys made to AD and their decision to stay in the war with us even when offered an out that wouldn't compromise our coalition's efforts. This was their decision as well, regardless of how much you try and cast this fully on us and attempt to make us out as the bad guys here. They were told the risks, they made the decision regardless, and they've stood by it because they know we don't "leave our protectorates to burn". We've been with them this whole time to work with them and aid in any way we can.

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Look at @Curufinwetrying to spin that narrative and attempting to make TKR look bad.

What would happen if those alliances posted up the messages you sent them for peace?

Its a good strat and attempt, but... they also didn’t have to sign TKR either.  The fact they signed and remained in the war shows that your strat failed (which later forced you to attack your own allies to “teach em a lesson” lol).

 

Seriously, why would any one sign BK or NPO at this point?

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Guest Curufinwe
1 hour ago, Hodor said:

Stats don't matter, bro.

Neither do 50 percent drops in score, apparently.  To paraphrase Auctor, we're all winners here (although we all play PW voluntarily, so that statement is probably invalid for that reason alone).

1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I like how you completely glossed over the second offer you guys made to AD and their decision to stay in the war with us even when offered an out that wouldn't compromise our coalition's efforts. This was their decision as well, regardless of how much you try and cast this fully on us and attempt to make us out as the bad guys here. They were told the risks, they made the decision regardless, and they've stood by it because they know we don't "leave our protectorates to burn". We've been with them this whole time to work with them and aid in any way we can.

So they're not burning?  And I mean, it is on you guys in the sense that you made a hard-headed calculation to keep your protectorates (and House Arryn) in the war because you didn't want to forgo prospective beiges from our smaller AAs, which is a point that you yourself conceded earlier.  Given that you were offered a means to prevent the damage they sustained and chose to let them take it because you felt it served your interests to do so, it's not really a reach to suggest that that damage is a consequence of said calculation on your parts.  

9 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Seriously, why would any one sign BK or NPO at this point?

 Our winning personalities, obviously.  Plus we can get the Pigeon to produce content for you.  People like content, right?

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2 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

So they're not burning?  And I mean, it is on you guys in the sense that you made a hard-headed calculation to keep your protectorates (and House Arryn) in the war because you didn't want to forgo prospective beiges from our smaller AAs, which is a point that you yourself conceded earlier.  Given that you were offered a means to prevent the damage they sustained and chose to let them take it because you felt it served your interests to do so, it's not really a reach to suggest that that damage is a consequence of said calculation on your parts.  

So we're continuing to ignore things because they don't fit your narrative? Alright, enjoy. It doesn't change the fact that after you offered them an out via an exchange that was declined, you offered them an out via cutting us and they chose to remain allied to us.

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20 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Seriously, why would any one sign BK or NPO at this point?

 

7 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

Our winning personalities, obviously.  Plus we can get the Pigeon to produce content for you.  People like content, right?

BK doesn't care what people think about them because they intend to maintain a hegemony. 

Look at any posts coming from BK in the past few weeks and it is clear what their FA strategy is and how they intend to win over/keep allies.

The only thing they have any interest in talking about is who is going to win this war. They do not care about how much this war has cost NPO and their other allies politically or how severely it has damaged the opportunity this community had for a shift from the political status quo. 

You can do whatever you want when most of the game is directly or indirectly tied to you.

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Guest Curufinwe
21 minutes ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

So we're continuing to ignore things because they don't fit your narrative? Alright, enjoy. It doesn't change the fact that after you offered them an out via an exchange that was declined, you offered them an out via cutting us and they chose to remain allied to us.

Any later decision that AD made regarding its FA orientation doesn't negate TKR's agency in rejecting our initial offer to peace them out.  If the sequence of events was (as you've said) 1) we offered to peace out your prots in exchange for our prots being peaced out, 2) TKR and friends rejected that arrangement because (as you've stated) you didn't want to forgo potential beiges from our prots and 3) AD was made a separate offer, the fact remains that TKR still chose to reject 1), which resulted in your protectorates remaining at war.  So yeah, while it's nice that AD decided to keep taking damage for you after you decided that you'd rather keep them at war than agree to peace with our smaller AAs, that doesn't negate the cost-benefit analysis that you made there.

13 minutes ago, Smith said:

 how severely it has damaged the opportunity this community had for a shift from the political status quo. 

 

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12 hours ago, Akuryo said:

NP.JPG

IF.JPG

Whatever my tactics might be Max, i'd suggest ya spend less time whining about how better and special you are compared to everyone, like some pathetic low-self esteem teenager, and more time sitting quietly and watching. Maybe you'll learn something!

Can't accuse me of no fake wars that burned all our infra! Nor of higher tiering, being massively larger, nor of fighting in a tier our allies controlled until very recently. No, i'm afraid you simply just suck that much, whatever tactics you got. Having 2200 infra in every city, burning my entire warchest, entering late and going down early, have done absolutely nothing to stop me from singlehandedly doing half as much damage as your entire alliance. I'm not even a whale! Your largest guy is a mere 2 cities behind.

Now sit back, shut up, and keep watchin. My encore's about to begin, and it's very rude to speak during a performance, you understand. ❤️

I should have put less weight on it as an NPO thing, and more as a personal thing. Multi-polar world is an interesting, but very fragile concept. It requires everyone involved to be playing with it in mind, and i suspect it's death is not far off. No sense in giving up trying while the heart's still beating though. :P

 

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Some Quick Number Crunching as a reply to this shit-post; apologies for the late reply by the way, I work long days:

 

As of July 23rd, 2019

 

Total Damage Dealt by North Point: 13,662,862,369

divided by 513 Wars

Roughly 26,633,259 Damage Avg. Per War

 

 

Total Damage Dealt By IronFront: 5,960,250,266

divided by 158 Wars

Roughly 37,723,102 Damage Avg. Per war

Now if IF had been in for 513 Wars w/ the same average: 19,351,951,326

 

With these Numbers it shows that IronFront has an overall better Wartime Effectiveness. It seems as though over half of of North Point’s damage dealt has been Loot/Infra/Gas & Munitions Damage; showing that you seem to have be hitting High Infra Targets and Beige-ing them in an attempt to Boost Your stats, or it could be mere happenstance. Shit-talk all you like but if you wanna go by stat these number don't lie. But what do I know I’m only 3 cities behind you in City Count...

 

Signed Yours Truly,

Uncle Tom ?

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@Curufinwe On the subject of hard-headed calculation, let's talk about how yours to try and use House Arryn in particular as a hostage to let your beiging protectorates be peaced out has infact resulted in MORE frequent-beige alliances being available to our side.

Surely now, you can't think yourselves to be too clever after that, can you?

@Uncle Tom unlike you guys, most of us here have spent about 3 weeks pinned down. So cut that off your timeline and see how good ya still look. I did half as much damage as you guys have, but I did it in about 2-2.5 weeks ?  

Edited by Akuryo
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3 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

@Curufinwe On the subject of hard-headed calculation, let's talk about how yours to try and use House Arryn in particular as a hostage to let your beiging protectorates be peaced out has infact resulted in MORE frequent-beige alliances being available to our side.

Surely now, you can't think yourselves to be too clever after that, can you?

@Uncle Tom unlike you guys, most of us here have spent about 3 weeks pinned down. So cut that off your timeline and see how good ya still look. I did half as much damage as you guys have, but I did it in about 2-2.5 weeks ?

Pinned down you say? Sounds like you're in a losing war.

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Just now, Uncle Tom said:

Pinned down you say? Sounds like you're in a losing war.

More like we're still a micro and mostly in the low tier, which until recently you outnumbered us in like 7:1.

Yet despite that, what your math leaves out is that 76% of our damage was done in the first 10 days.

We actually averaged over 1b/day until most of the alliance got pinned down. I'm sure it'll rise again as you all lose control of the low tier. ?

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3 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

 

Yet despite that, what your math leaves out is that 76% of our damage was done in the first 10 days.

76% in the First 10 Days you say?! It appears you've petered out; sad. Didn't know someone could blow their load that quickly.

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32 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

Any later decision that AD made regarding its FA orientation doesn't negate TKR's agency in rejecting our initial offer to peace them out.  If the sequence of events was (as you've said) 1) we offered to peace out your prots in exchange for our prots being peaced out, 2) TKR and friends rejected that arrangement because (as you've stated) you didn't want to forgo potential beiges from our prots and 3) AD was made a separate offer, the fact remains that TKR still chose to reject 1), which resulted in your protectorates remaining at war.  So yeah, while it's nice that AD decided to keep taking damage for you after you decided that you'd rather keep them at war than agree to peace with our smaller AAs, that doesn't negate the cost-benefit analysis that you made there.

To clarify, you're trying to paint us as the bad guys here when you got caught planning a war against us, called in your protectorates to defend you when you got hit for it, and, when it turned out your protectorates didn't want to fight for as long as you did, attacked our protectorates to try and force peace for them. But we're the bad guys for not letting you blackmail us into peacing people out?

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8 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

It appears you never started to begin with. ?

If that's your best come back you need to step up your game man. Come on, hit me with something that sticks.

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11 minutes ago, Uncle Tom said:

If that's your best come back you need to step up your game man. Come on, hit me with something that sticks.

Actually my best comeback is that you mixed up the numbers for your alliance. You've TAKEN 6b in damage. You've only dealt 3.6b :P

Your new total per member is 22.8 million, versus 26.6! So congratulations, you're worse than an alliance that's been pinned for 3 weeks.

Next time go to school in the northern states, i hear they handle things better up there ;)

EDIT: Actually that one might be my fault, i was stupid and mixed it up when saying i did half as much as you guys did. I was wrong. I've done 72% as much damage as your entire alliance! My apologies. 

Edited by Akuryo
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2 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Next time go to school in the northern states, i hear they handle things better up there ;)

Worst Part is I'm from The Upper Peninsula of Michigan! It's like the Texas of the North! XD

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Just now, Uncle Tom said:

Worst Part is I'm from The Upper Peninsula of Michigan! It's like the Texas of the North! XD

Isn't that basically canada anyway? You're just part of America's hat.

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4 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Isn't that basically canada anyway? You're just part of America's hat.

We almost became the State of Superior back in the 70's; The land of the U.P. was given to Michigan in exchange for Ohio getting the Toledo Strip.

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Also it seems both of our investigative skills are lacking; considering I'm from "The Great White North" a.k.a. God's Country.

Edited by Uncle Tom
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Guest Curufinwe
3 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

To clarify, you're trying to paint us as the bad guys here when you got caught planning a war against us, called in your protectorates to defend you when you got hit for it, and, when it turned out your protectorates didn't want to fight for as long as you did, attacked our protectorates to try and force peace for them. But we're the bad guys for not letting you blackmail us into peacing people out?

I think that fact that you're now descending into whataboutism is evidence enough that this discussion is more or less resolved.  You've conceded that you kept your prots in the war because you didn't want to give up the opportunity to get prospective beiges from our side, you haven't disputed the sequence of events or the consequences of those decisions that have been laid out in previous posts and you've made it clear that it was a strategic calculation regarding beiges rather than a moral aversion to 'blackmail' that drove your decision making process.  Whether or not people choose to regard you as 'the bad guys' as a result of these admissions is up to them (and will probably vary depending on where they stand sphere wise), but since you're no longer trying to dispute the facts of the case and are instead trying to shift the topic ('but you did this, which is WAY worse than anything I may or may not have done...') I think we've pretty much talked this one out.  Good chat though :) 

3 hours ago, Akuryo said:

@Curufinwe On the subject of hard-headed calculation, let's talk about how yours to try and use House Arryn in particular as a hostage to let your beiging protectorates be peaced out has infact resulted in MORE frequent-beige alliances being available to our side.

Surely now, you can't think yourselves to be too clever after that, can you?

Honestly, the Arryn RoH thread and @Serva's charmingly cryptic posts have made it totally worth it, at least as far as I'm concerned.  If you're not having fun, what's the point?

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8 hours ago, Curufinwe said:

 

Q4P8uhX.png

If that's what it looks like when Rose is winning, I'd hate to see what it'd look like when you're losing.

Not sure if you're kidding, but this is what I was referring to https://npowned.net/pw-war-statistics/conflict/12. We are winning by 303 billion dollars

Some of our top guys have dropped military, and I believe we have kicked people who were ignoring orders, as any serious alliance would. Again, alliance score is not necessarily indicative of a whole lot. Are you actually seriously claiming to be winning because of our chart? If we were to accept a bunch of totally inactive applicants and boost our score, would you say we were "coming back"?


BTW, this war we became first in score again, 5 years after Rose initially topped the alliance rankings. No other alliance has that much lasting success.

unknown.png?width=400&height=218

 

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