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How long will this war go on for?


Kastor
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Just now, Akuryo said:

It's not necessarily a bad thing to bring in hundreds of new players like that, but I question it's benefit to the games health when they all go to not even the same sphere but the same alliance.

Which is why as I said on the PW discord, I sincerely hope most of them diaspora either u to their own alliances or across the game to explore the world as it were. Especially if there are more 'waves'.

They joined as some kind of experiment, not sure what. (Maybe how toxic people will be to new players)

Although I think being a little more welcoming than telling them to disperse as soon as they join is better.

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1 hour ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Well, even Wikipedia immediately ties popular sovereignty in with elections at the start.

Popular sovereignty is the principle that the authority of a state and its government are created and sustained by the consent of its people, through their elected representatives (Rule by the People), who is the source of all political power.”

Pretty much joining alliances with leaders they’re willing to agree with is pretty much the only way people can give consent to government with no elections, although not sure why so many would agree to be under 100% taxes if Roq didn’t have popular support among them though. If Roq landed them into a unpopular losing war, there might be a bigger risk of internal problems. :P

Ah, Wikipedia says it, therefore it must be true.

In this situation however, the Wikipedia article is  sadly incorrect. Yes, popular sovereignty in its modern usage is used almost exclusively in regards to democracies but as even the Wikipedia article states, the notion itself has its origins in the 16th century when democracy as we know it today didn't quite exist. Indeed, the term itself is applied almost exclusively to monarchs during the relevant time period. 

I do believe however that Wikipedia does have a quite illuminating page on a Francisco Suarez which you may find interesting in regards to his philosophy pertaining to laws and popular sovereignty which in turn led to the Latin American revolutions against the Spanish monarchy.

In summary, democracy and elections aside, leaders of an alliance lead an alliance as long as the members of that alliance allow it. This allowance is typically based upon the benefits members receive as a result of the leaders's own actions. If leaders consistently fail to deliver the aforementioned benefits, we then see either of two things occur. The first being members largely leaving the alliance and going elsewhere to seek more competent leadership, this is largely the norm here in PnW. The second is basically a loss of confidence in the failing leadership and the leaders either stepping down voluntarily or being removed by other "persuasive" leadership members by a variety of means. 

Needless to say, ineffective leadership simply cannot hold onto authority if they fail to deliver benefits to members, members will either vote with their feet or more subtly , insist on new leaders to represent them.

My point is, what exact benefits do the members of NPO receive in return for little control over their own nation builds, slow growth in comparison to other alliances, extortionate taxes and repeated wars (mostly defeats at that) caused mostly by their own leaders who seem intent on following a self-fulfilling narrative of being perceived as a victim, largely as a result of their own actions I might add.

To be frank, if I had to give so much to receive so little, I would look for another home and I would not think less of anyone who did much the same.

Also, congrats on the guinea pigs, I'm keen to see if they transition into active combatants once built for war or if they remain as a source of income through taxes and resources.

Edited by Charles the Tyrant

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2 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

They joined as some kind of experiment, not sure what. (Maybe how toxic people will be to new players)

Although I think being a little more welcoming than telling them to disperse as soon as they join is better.

Yeah, hopefully this community can be supportive and help them integrate into the larger framework of the game. Long term we all have more to gain from fresh blood.

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9 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

They joined as some kind of experiment, not sure what. (Maybe how toxic people will be to new players)

Although I think being a little more welcoming than telling them to disperse as soon as they join is better.

You don't need an experiment for that, trust me. You wanna know how bad just talk to the micros. 

Took me a helluva long while to stare at the facts beneath my nose on that, and I am a micro, lol.

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20 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

You have a very sunny outlook on what is obviously a very bleak landscape. XD.

I'm all for bringing in new blood to the game, but they could have done this at any other time since they've been here but chose to flash a 241 strong brand new alliance under the NPO banner during a war. It makes this look more to me like a scare tactic than an attempt community enhancement.

"New players joining the game is great except when they join NPO."

Who would've guessed all the high and mighty rhetoric about "game health" goes away when people join alliances you don't like. ?

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"They say the secret to success is being at the right place at the right time. But since you never know when the right time is going to be, I figure the trick is to find the right place and just hang around!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Kastor> He left and my !@#$ nation is !@#$ed up. And the Finance guy refuses to help. He just writes his !@#$ plays.

<Kastor> And laughs and shit.

<Kastor> And gives out !@#$ huge loans to Arthur James, that !@#$ bastard.

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Just now, TheNG said:

"New players joining the game is great except when they join NPO."

Who would've guessed all the high and mighty rhetoric about "game health" goes away when people join alliances you don't like. ?

Well. 1. I've never spewed any high and mighty rhetoric about game health. so. I guess you could say you quoted the wrong person for that? Maybe you meant to quote Aky or someone else?

2. If we flash flooded an alliance into the game that was 250 people strong, I'm sure this whole thing would be flipped around and you'd be calling me out for being unhealthy to the game, so. smoke a pole.

3. I never said it was entirely UNHEALTHY to begin with. I was just saying suddenly spawning 250 people into the game under your own banner during a war, calling it a first wave, and then coming in here saying its "Community Development" is off to me. It looks more like a scare tactic than an actual attempt to help the game. If it is in all honesty a full outreach program, then more power to them. I'm more than glad to help integrate them. It also doesn't look good when the alliance name is a "Whaling Corp"

4. frick you, you government spy drone, go back to flagging down drug dealers in new york or something

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6 minutes ago, TheNG said:

"New players joining the game is great except when they join NPO."

Who would've guessed all the high and mighty rhetoric about "game health" goes away when people join alliances you don't like. ?

I mean it wouldn't be any better if they joined BK, TKR, Rose, or t$. Add 241 to any of those and it's utterly ridiculous. Frankly, adding 241 to any alliance is insane. 

Even if it were my shithole micro it'd be ridiculous. Any alliance with any measurable competence is ridiculous.

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Guest Curufinwe
7 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

Well. 1. I've never spewed any high and mighty rhetoric about game health. so. I guess you could say you quoted the wrong person for that? Maybe you meant to quote Aky or someone else?

2. If we flash flooded an alliance into the game that was 250 people strong, I'm sure this whole thing would be flipped around and you'd be calling me out for being unhealthy to the game, so. smoke a pole.

3. I never said it was entirely UNHEALTHY to begin with. I was just saying suddenly spawning 250 people into the game under your own banner during a war, calling it a first wave, and then coming in here saying its "Community Development" is off to me. It looks more like a scare tactic than an actual attempt to help the game. If it is in all honesty a full outreach program, then more power to them. I'm more than glad to help integrate them. It also doesn't look good when the alliance name is a "Whaling Corp"

4. frick you, you government spy drone, go back to flagging down drug dealers in new york or something

 

7 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I mean it wouldn't be any better if they joined BK, TKR, Rose, or t$. Add 241 to any of those and it's utterly ridiculous. Frankly, adding 241 to any alliance is insane. 

Even if it were my shithole micro it'd be ridiculous. Any alliance with any measurable competence is ridiculous.

Referring to a new community that has decided to give PW a try as 'unhealthy' or a threatening 'scare tactic' or 'utterly ridiculous' before they even get the majority of their nations set up or have been playing for more than 24 hours will surely make them want to spread out and explore alternative alliances, rather than sticking together or working with people who aren't displaying obvious alarm at their existence.  You guys should definitely keep vilifying this group of new players by talking about how 'bleak' and disruptive their presence is before they even get a chance to really start playing.  It seems like a great way to welcome them to Orbis and definitely won't sour them on you guys at all, especially since this will likely be the first impression most of them get when they're unwise enough to venture on to the smoldering salt inferno that is the OWF.  

On that note, I for one welcome our new micro-tier overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted BK personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their 30k person strong server.

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1 minute ago, Curufinwe said:

On that note, I for one welcome our new micro-tier overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted BK personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their 30k person strong server.

You think your numbers can scare us, you dirty pleb? Thanks for bringing more servants for our ruling class to step on. :<

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1 minute ago, Curufinwe said:

 

Referring to a new community that has decided to give PW a try as 'unhealthy' or a threatening 'scare tactic' or 'utterly ridiculous' before they even get the majority of their nations set up or have been playing for more than 24 hours will surely make them want to spread out and explore alternative alliances, rather than sticking together or working with people who aren't displaying obvious alarm at their existence.  You guys should definitely keep vilifying this group of new players by talking about how 'bleak' and disruptive their presence is before they even get a chance to really start playing.  It seems like a great way to welcome them to Orbis and definitely won't sour them on you guys at all, especially since this will likely be the first impression most of them get when they're unwise enough to venture on to the smoldering salt inferno that is the OWF.  

On that note, I for one welcome our new micro-tier overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted BK personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their 30k person strong server.

I guess you'll have no complaints if some paranoid nutcases go and find goons or something awful or the real Fark and drag then here en masse, even if they should bolster the membership of TKR as an example into the several hundreds?

Good for you I guess but I don't like that idea either.

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Guest Curufinwe
1 minute ago, Ripper said:

You think your numbers can scare us, you dirty pleb? Thanks for bringing more servants for our ruling class to step on. :<

I think you'd need to decom some of that shiny new infra you bought to if want to step on anyone at this point ?

2 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I guess you'll have no complaints if some paranoid nutcases go and find goons or something awful or the real Fark and drag then here en masse, even if they should bolster the membership of TKR as an example into the several hundreds?

Good for you I guess but I don't like that idea either.

That's that welcoming spirit I was referring to!  Keep up the good work, citizen - you're doing your side of the web proud.

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Guest Frawley
5 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I guess you'll have no complaints if some paranoid nutcases go and find goons or something awful or the real Fark and drag then here en masse, even if they should bolster the membership of TKR as an example into the several hundreds?

Good for you I guess but I don't like that idea either.

As I said on the VC in ONN, we are already trying to get GOONS and other sites to invade the game. And we are reaching out to old CN friends and enemies alike to let them know of PnW.

Drag as many people here as you can, I welcome the fresh blood, and the challenge.

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Guess I'm from a game where an influx will bring in multiple thousands, not merely a few hundred nations, so I don't even think of the number as particularly large.

Surely more players are good, no matter from who or from where. I personally wouldn't mind a legion of enemies being spawned in, giant wars where we are outgunned are far more fun than the ones where we wipe the incompetent opposition, leaving only the few dedicated fighters to starve out.

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5 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

 

Referring to a new community that has decided to give PW a try as 'unhealthy' or a threatening 'scare tactic' or 'utterly ridiculous' before they even get the majority of their nations set up or have been playing for more than 24 hours will surely make them want to spread out and explore alternative alliances, rather than sticking together or working with people who aren't displaying obvious alarm at their existence.  You guys should definitely keep vilifying this group of new players by talking about how 'bleak' and disruptive their presence is before they even get a chance to really start playing.  It seems like a great way to welcome them to Orbis and definitely won't sour them on you guys at all, especially since this will likely be the first impression most of them get when they're unwise enough to venture on to the smoldering salt inferno that is the OWF.  

On that note, I for one welcome our new micro-tier overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted BK personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their 30k person strong server.

You guys need to get your reading comprehension checked. You see the part where I said I didn't think it was unhealthy? Or was that just ignored to further your point. I've said three times now that I'm glad to be seeing new blood. I was questioning more the tactic of the main NPO force bringing them in in the middle of a war. Which reads like a scare tactic. If they had at their disposal this massive force of new players, why didn't they do this during, idk Peace time?

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4 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

I think you'd need to decom some of that shiny new infra you bought to if want to step on anyone at this point ?

And do some actual work? What kind of a ruler would I be then?

I swear... This working class becomes more silly by the day. On the other hand, that's exactly the reason we can rule them.

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We've already won this war, extra new players make 0 difference to the outcome. There would be more of a point if it was close, but it isn't now. We're just now fighting for fun rather than to decide anything, hopefully it'll last for a few more months.

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8 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

You guys need to get your reading comprehension checked. You see the part where I said I didn't think it was unhealthy? Or was that just ignored to further your point. I've said three times now that I'm glad to be seeing new blood. I was questioning more the tactic of the main NPO force bringing them in in the middle of a war. Which reads like a scare tactic. If they had at their disposal this massive force of new players, why didn't they do this during, idk Peace time?

Got it new players bad. Scare tactic. All a ploy. Such a nice welcome to the game you’re showing.

funnily I’ve said it in multiple radios shows and always supported invasions and newer blood to the game. It makes it more interesting. So go ahead bring your hundreds of anything the challenge is more fun than having to deal with you lot.

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Guest Curufinwe
5 minutes ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

You guys need to get your reading comprehension checked. You see the part where I said I didn't think it was unhealthy? Or was that just ignored to further your point. I've said three times now that I'm glad to be seeing new blood. I was questioning more the tactic of the main NPO force bringing them in in the middle of a war. Which reads like a scare tactic. If they had at their disposal this massive force of new players, why didn't they do this during, idk Peace time?

Actually, if you check what you wrote, you'd see that you didn't think it was 'entirely unhealthy,' which by definition suggests that you think it is partially unhealthy.  You also referred to this new community joining our happy Orbis family as a 'bleak landscape' which doesn't sound like particularly supportive to me.  Also, doubling down on the scare tactic rhetoric just underscores my earlier comment, so it appears my reading comprehension is fairly adequate actually ?

6 minutes ago, Ripper said:

And do some actual work? What kind of a ruler would I be then?

I swear... This working class becomes more silly by the day. On the other hand, that's exactly the reason we can rule them.

Image result for violent overthrow of monarchy

Well if they need an alliance theme, there's worse ones to go with I suppose.

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On 8/15/2019 at 2:09 PM, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

They have an ideological investment because minispheres are a way of isolating those without long term connections and staying on top. For example Rose would only dare go alone if they knew they were safe, which turned out to be the case. Just another tool to try and perpetuate the current ruling class

@Curufinwe, blame Thanos for getting the tag of being ruled. :v

Also, @rulers, I need some assistance from my fellow capitalists.

I know my capitalist hat is big and all...

Wz2Tg7v.jpg

But I cannot hold them alone for much longer!

1hmSP1d.jpg

 

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Guest Curufinwe
1 minute ago, Ripper said:

@Curufinwe, blame Thanos for getting the tag of being ruled. :v

Also, @rulers, I need some assistance from my fellow capitalists.

I know my capitalist hat is big and all...

Wz2Tg7v.jpg

But I cannot hold them alone for much longer!

1hmSP1d.jpg

 

Pass the tophat and see if your coalition will chip in to get you to 4k infra per city?

image.jpeg.bc4b17373383eba25064af14cf65ec34.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Curufinwe said:

Pass the tophat and see if your coalition will chip in to get you to 4k infra per city?

image.jpeg.bc4b17373383eba25064af14cf65ec34.jpeg

4k infra is insane. That's only for the hyper-rulers, like Thrax and the members of GOB. I know my place in this world, as you and Thanos do.

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14 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Got it new players bad. Scare tactic. All a ploy. Such a nice welcome to the game you’re showing.

funnily I’ve said it in multiple radios shows and always supported invasions and newer blood to the game. It makes it more interesting. So go ahead bring your hundreds of anything the challenge is more fun than having to deal with you lot.

Avoid the actual question, Yes. typical NPO. Love you too, Keshav.

 

6 minutes ago, Ripper said:

-Snip

 

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

Pass the tophat and see if your coalition will chip in to get you to 4k infra per city?

Welp. This all makes me understand the CHaoS flag even better.

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