How long will this war go on for?

[Zim]

4 minutes ago, Inst said:

"The Great Salt War" will never end.

Yeah, isen't it great? 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Zim

[Roquentin]

1 hour ago, Quichwe10 said:

@Roquentin, if that was all you needed us to do, then perhaps you should have suggested it rather than threaten moderation on us if we didn't airstrike. Perhaps it's because you think differently than I, but using or threatening to use game moderation as your personal attack dogs is utterly detestable. As for leaving the war, perhaps you missed it, but we were in there solely to honor our ODP with FR. Pray tell me what would possibly make us stay in that war when that reason no longer exists? That being said, issues with NPO? Hmm. Well, good to know my suspicions to be confirmed. 

I was talking about Adrienne because I was attempting to be as transparent as I could to Roq on what was happening, so he would know what was happening with Adrienne, and that Adrienne would know what was happening to Roq. Perhaps I could have kept things compartmentalized between both, but since Adrienne had already known about the entire issue with Roq before I myself had known, I felt that the cat had already been let out of the bag. Apparently, that was a exceptionally poor judgement call. That being said, I will freely admit I was biased against Roq. Not because he was NPO, or IQ, or any real past events, but because he immediately threatened to sic moderation on us if we did not comply. That being said, I was still willing to hear him out though. If he had suggested something like the workaround he just mentioned earlier on this page, then I would have accepted such a compromise. I myself had actually forgotten that treasures would be transferred upon defeat in any wars, not just defensive ones, and had not thought of it. Not the first time I've forgotten such a game mechanic, unfortunately. I only found out that CIA lets you get 3 spies a day now only a few weeks ago, and before our re-entry into the war, had to trawl the forums again to confirm if fortify still gave resistance. 

The context is important. There are multiple gimmicks in which slots got filled within that one week. It's not really an unwarranted suspicion that it was an intentional ploy by TKR to have its slot filled. Given the timing of the hit being as we are starting to fill the slots on a hectic 4th of July. I didn't use them as my personal attack dogs. It's not my fault you were oblivious to the ramifications of the action you took.

Why would you not expect it to be brought up as slot filling if you were declaring on someone in the war? If I had an uninvolved affiliated nation hit us for the treasure when other people had already been attacking, I would expect to be reported. I don't have the patience to be exceedingly nice knowing it's a limited time thing on 4th july when it is unlikely to get a report answered swiftly.

35 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

 

Did NPO entering kinda annoy me? In some ways yes and in some ways no, because had we stayed in we knew we was struggling and you're particularly strong in a tier we was concentrated. What annoyed me about your entry was the way you entered. But was it the defining factor? Hell no it wasnt we had already known we wasnt longed for the world and decided to call time early. It was just a factor amongst many.

This is the main argument in the post and I know the other reasons FR had for disbanding, but DemonSpawn said the complete opposite that it wasn't inactivity or anything but that he saw the entry as a betrayal of his trust and that expedited the exit/disbandment.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Roquentin

[Quichwe10]

2 hours ago, Roquentin said:

The context is important. There are multiple gimmicks in which slots got filled within that one week. It's not really an unwarranted suspicion that it was an intentional ploy by TKR to have its slot filled. Given the timing of the hit being as we are starting to fill the slots on a hectic 4th of July. I didn't use them as my personal attack dogs. It's not my fault you were oblivious to the ramifications of the action you took.

Why would you not expect it to be brought up as slot filling if you were declaring on someone in the war? If I had an uninvolved affiliated nation hit us for the treasure when other people had already been attacking, I would expect to be reported. I don't have the patience to be exceedingly nice knowing it's a limited time thing on 4th july when it is unlikely to get a report answered swiftly.

This is the main argument in the post and I know the other reasons FR had for disbanding, but DemonSpawn said the complete opposite that it wasn't inactivity or anything but that he saw the entry as a betrayal of his trust and that expedited the exit/disbandment.

Are you perhaps suffering from some selective memory failure? Your immediate demand was to airstrike, or we were slot filling and you'd report us. Not airstriking is not slot filling, or there's a lot of people that should be getting warnings right now. If you feel that's the case, then I'd suggest you issue the reports you're so fond of using and get those warnings going. The entire purpose of why we were there was for the treasure, and we wrote that on the tin. In of itself, the purpose is to actively close the war. It's even more clear cut than sitting on people is in whether or not it's violating the rule against slot filling because sitting on people means you don't have the intention to close the war, and you usually want to drag that war out as long as possible. So no, I didn't expect it to be reported because there are no rules broken, and I'm not in the habit of making sets of fraudulent reports to the mods. 

[Roquentin]

1 hour ago, Quichwe10 said:

Are you perhaps suffering from some selective memory failure? Your immediate demand was to airstrike, or we were slot filling and you'd report us. Not airstriking is not slot filling, or there's a lot of people that should be getting warnings right now. If you feel that's the case, then I'd suggest you issue the reports you're so fond of using and get those warnings going. The entire purpose of why we were there was for the treasure, and we wrote that on the tin. In of itself, the purpose is to actively close the war. It's even more clear cut than sitting on people is in whether or not it's violating the rule against slot filling because sitting on people means you don't have the intention to close the war, and you usually want to drag that war out as long as possible. So no, I didn't expect it to be reported because there are no rules broken, and I'm not in the habit of making sets of fraudulent reports to the mods. 

You're sticking with this? Then too bad especially with the completely obtuse equivocation.

My demand was if he didn't airstrike he would be helping our enemy and it would be equivalent to me running grounds on a 0 ground high air nation on our side attacking  a high air nation on the other side.  It's not the same to specifically do a less damaging attack to simply doing a ground or naval when it doesn't increase the damage to the other people. if you see a bunch of people navalling high air targets that we have other people fighting, then let me know I'll be reporting them. You intentionally  hurt the other nations by not airstriking and benefitted the defending nation. It was not a fraudulent report in my eyes and you can't tell me what is or isn't or if I thought it was a legit instance of someone trying to mess with the other wars.

Feel free to stuff it. I hope it was worth it. You don't know what fraud is, so not gonna bother further.

 

Anyway being meaning to get to this one.

 

22 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

I meant to respond to this earlier, but I've been busy preparing to move into my college dorm.

No one is asking you to give up being the top bloc or even the top alliance nor give us an advantage.  As you've seen, minispheres has only resulted in us getting rolled twice.   I don't care in which way the balance of power swings just as long as it continues swinging.  The problem I have with NPO entering as I've previous explained is that it risks jamming that see saw to one side.  The thing we are asking for is a good faith effort to protect the future of the game.  The continued slog of bipolarity and extremely long wars just fuels member attrition and the death of alliances, which objectively is unhealthy for the game.  As an aside, when ya'll brought in 270 members, that is great for the game.  I do hope that they aren't used to further consolidation, but a genuine congratulations on introducing a new community and adding for more potential future dynamics.  And this is good motivation for others to follow in bringing in new communities.  

If you want to attack TKR for doing the same shtick, fine call us out where we err.  That's exactly what we're here to discuss.  And I know you think we have not changed, but I mean just look at FA department.  None of us, @Menhera, @Benfro and myself were here in FA even 3 months ago, and before then only @GoldyHammer and @Nizam Adrienne were responsible for all of our FA.  All of us have come with new ideas and we are actively working to change our direction.  As for our entrance into this war, well that was clear as day in terms of CB and it was two smaller blocs attacking a much larger bloc.  From a meta perspective (which I admit yes wasn't our biggest concern), it was the largest bloc being taken down a notch by two smaller ones which again isn't the worst thing.  But it was still fundamental to our political calculus, nonetheless, that we weren't doing something to destabilize the minisphere dynamic.  Perhaps, even accelerate it by demonstrating the risk to fledgling blocs like citadel and cov the risks of being in such a large bloc.  Again,  I'm open to discuss this in good faith, and I admit that TKR is no perfect AA maybe in some ways less so or more so than NPO.  I'm willing to admit my/TKR's mistakes, are you?  My goal here is to promote these ideals.  I'm not asking for blind faith just some willingness for discussion about how we can achieve mutual progress on these goals (whether it benefits you, me or whoever).  

As for the realpolitik thread of the argument, I do believe that consolidation was large part a cause of CN's death (but you're right that this is mostly from second-hand conversations I've had from the people who were there, so you might know better).  But again, consolidation isn't good for the game.  One of the best reasons for consolidation is the pragmatic argument.  Essentially, why leave the largest blocs if they're going to offer the most protection against being rolled since everyone else isn't enough to take you down.  Now, I'm not decrying all instances of pragmatism nor realpolitik, but the times when it devolves into a zero-sum perspective where an actor only views his benefit as someone else's or the community's loss.  The rhetoric you use, as in I don't do X because that gives TKR an advantage or Y because that benefits KT, should not be the be-all and end-all.  This is what specifically causes frustration to many because it can often fuel decisions that will detriment the game health.

The minisphere dynamic helps NPO too.  If you're worried about the elites, well your allies in T$ and HS are known for having a few as well besides your own member base.  NPO had and has an equal opportunity to  leverage its connections.  We were all ready to give you a chance despite previous misgivings (which I do believe was a step towards game health).  And besides this, in small groupings, you are literally the largest alliance giving you unique operability.  I'm just stating this because you guys focus on your weaknesses from this dynamic but never really state your strengths which might be just as strong.

Now, the final portion of your statement is what really disconcerts me and I'm sure many others.  While I won't place the responsibility fully on NPO, ya'll like everyone else are part of this game, so you have a responsibility to the continuity of it.  And your flippant response to many players leaving the game is something I find distressing.  The permutations of dynamics and political intrigue is completely dependent on the number of players and alliances.  The reason I point out NPO here is because your process of decision-making seems to neglect the impact on the game always in favor or your own priorities even if they're aren't necessarily exclusive.  And if you could take back one event during this war that would be most helpful to the game dynamic it would likely be NPO's entry.  Then you'd have a growing N$O who likely becomes the top bloc after BK's fall.  Citadel and/or cov become independent.  Fark is also prospering with its own bloc.  Now, the game has 6 or 7, at least, independent blocs.  NPO likely still has the advantage perhaps an even greater one unless under some illusion, you seriously think Chaos wants long-term ties with KETOG (no offense to those alliances).  

Maybe it's not too late, and maybe we can still provide some sort of solution to Orbis.  I for one don't want to let enmity between the major alliances result in our failure of saving something that  provides us all with an immense amount of fun and enjoyment.  I do believe, though, that there is a path forward.  Hopefully we find it .

Been meaning to address this one as it deserves  a reply.

Here's a huge problem: the existence and acceptance of the Chaos bloc is perceived as premised on attacking another grouping. Everyone will see it as the case based on the leaks and then it was well-timed with KETOG enlarging within the protection period. You basically seem like the Pepsi to KETOG's Coke. We also don't know if Chaos will even exist after. The largest alliance(TKR) is also the most compatible with KETOG. I'm saying if we're expected forsake pragmatism, then the high road solution for Chaos would have been to continue the war or just peace and pursue what it was going to do post-war anyway.

It was perilous to any balance of power as if it that could happen to BK/Cov, it could easily happen to us as well. The numbers were used as a reason to be wary of and it was the typical pattern in PW history where the nimble side was wailing on the larger one numerically.  The political calculus you make of hoping induce fractures is also perilous and the problem is it's a universalizable principle. The problem is when you do a war and it's shock and awe and you win despite the numbers on the other side, it has long-standing consequences. Rather than everyone making an independent decision about how they do FA, they instead make a decision based on "what are these guys going to do us? we don't stand a chance and our main ally wasn't able to fight them off all once" or someone else sees "these guys are the ones who bring the heat and will always win"  then it furthers the negative precedents set in the past. We prefer to encourage a culture of ride or die allegiance decisions made knowing you won't be safe from damage no matter what you do.  The historical precedent is the main target alliances often become ostracized and then are easier to beat as time goes on while the other side adds people  until the target alliances wither away.  While many alliances often become defiant when people hope to break their ties, there are also cases where people will sever and it is usually not denounced as a cowardly act to sever for that reason. There is a culture of intimidation and a culture of cowardice being acceptable and for  extreme individualistic opportunism in seeking your own bliss as the expense of your allies/alliance. We cannot allow you to have a monopoly on power and we have to show we can do stuff as well so if someone gets stomped by KERTCHOGG, it doesn't mean if they stay sweet with KERCHTOGG they'll be safe. Note doesn't have to be the entire KERTCHOGG. Could be any combo or permutation as long it's KETROG or kertog and others. 

There are a lot of different issues with CN. One was the lack of mechanically competitive alliances as being mechanically competitive was way harder than in PW and required organization and supply and demand of  a certain product to match rather than people just buying infra/cities and saving up. The supply meeting the demand relied on a constant stream of new players, which was not happening. Everything being based on long-term accumulation meant the older players were the ones with the stats/warchests, but they were moving on in life and their nations no longer had much value compared to the adult pursuits they thought crowded CN out. Older players stopped communicating as much and CN always had massive activity issue game-wide but it became worse and worse where it wasn't even viable to have two competitive sides so people chose to consolidate and burn out the clock.

tS and HS are relatively isolated in terms of personal connections compared to the other people. That's not a knock on them, just the spread of people who are tS alumni isn't as wide as say Rose or Arrgh and HS' gov hasn't historically been gov for most of the game unlike the other groupings. I don't feel CoS/TKR are a safe bet to base our future on.  It would be an easy target to get a coalition against or it could just be us.  There was considerable narrative building before we declared. Constant gotchas, ruining the game, etc.  I'm not really sure unless you count a lot of alliances that aren't actual members as part of N$0 if that'd be the case. The third party links are contingent and conditional and not like the ones others have. 

I don't have a responsibility to keep people in the game if they can't handle taking some hits. I don't really get off on it, but it's just not the mentality we want to encourage in the game that when the going gets tough you check out. The things we were getting thrown our way in terms of threats makes it a hollow plea. People always quit the game when TKR won every war and relatively little concern was shown except for blaming us. "OH NPO YOU'RE DRAGGING IT OUT AND CAUSING PEOPLE ON YOUR SIDE TO QUIT AND JUST USING THEM AS MEATSHIELDS UNTIL THEY DO AND YOU'RE A LEECH." I  gave the reasons earlier as to why our entry was actually the dynamic move.  You went in thinking you were the underdog and you were winning and , we went by the battlefield results and hoped to prevent history from repeating itself so we threw a hail mary pass. I would never compare Fark/Pantheon to KETOG or even Chaos. There is no one competitive with KERTCHOGG and there is nothing more repetitive and undynamic than Acadia/UPN/ex-VG getting stomped for the kerjilioneth time alongside inexperienced alliances. We wanted to show by suiciding ourselves that it was possible to avoid that outcome. We didn't want it to become if you happen to get on KETOG and TKR's bad side then you're screwed. Everyone gets smashed.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Roquentin

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

@Roquentin Hurting your war effort is not slot filling. Alex's rules are vague as hell, absolutely, but they're not nearly vague enough for this shit you keep going on about "hurt the other nation's in the war". The rules don't give a shit, he had a different goal and was achieving it by 100% permissible means. 

Feel free not to like it, or attack them for it as you did. But quit pedaling this asinine bullshit that it was even within the same Galaxy as slotfilling, or that there was the slightest of detectable iotas of ground to try and get them hit by mods over it.

Honestly I don't care if Alex has no jurisdiction over discord. Anyone uses mods as a weapon they should be the one getting hit, regardless of the medium used. 

Edit: Imagine decrying people who toxicly rage against you for not playing their way only to turn around and try to get people warned or even banned for not playing YOUR way. 

At this point I pessimistically await the day this attitude escalates into people filing mass reports against leaders like yourself hoping to get them banned. That's where this nonsense heads.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Akuryo

[Roquentin]

1 minute ago, Akuryo said:

@Roquentin Hurting your war effort is not slot filling. Alex's rules are vague as hell, absolutely, but they're not nearly vague enough for this shit you keep going on about "hurt the other nation's in the war". The rules don't give a shit, he had a different goal and was achieving it by 100% permissible means. 

Feel free not to like it, or attack them for it as you did. But quit pedaling this asinine bullshit that it was even within the same Galaxy as slotfilling, or that there was the slightest of detectable iotas of ground to try and get them hit by mods over it.

Honestly I don't care if Alex has no jurisdiction over discord. Anyone uses mods as a weapon they should be the one getting hit, regardless of the medium used. 

It's not about getting them hit. A warning  and cancellation of the war would suffice. I'm not really interested in testing this out to its conclusion. I don't care about the guy getting a nation strike. I just don't want a slot filled by someone who is preventing us from doing what we need to do. If I had pulled the same shit on someone else, it would definitely get scrutiny.

A different war where someone fortified first and then missiled was canceled. All I care is it gets cancelled.

 

War Slot & Espionage Filling

Declaring war on a nation without the intention of fighting them is punishable by a nation strike and additional punishment for multiple violations. You are not allowed to declare war on nations to prevent them from being attacked by other nations. This same rule applies with spies and espionage operations. Knowingly participating in having your war or spy slots filled is also considered a violation of this rule.

Moderation discretion must be applied when interpreting and enforcing this rule. An example of behavior violating the rules would be declaring war on a nation and sending attacks with minimal units, or using 'Fortify', to appear to be fighting a war, when in reality the attacker has no intention to fight and win the war.

it's up to the discretion.

[Lu Xun]

The basic problem right now is that the game is based around ex-IQ vs not-IQ. Akuryo's torn into me on this before, but we had proto-IQ in the form of Paracovenant, then Covenant and Paragon, and it's basically been the same two groups of people constantly fighting each other, with some people quitting, some people switching sides (BK is an example), and so on.

This type of hostility needs to stop, because for whatever you might BS about microspheres, as long as these networks and perceptions exist, the same exact wars are going to happen over and over again until one side ends up quitting the game.

[Sir Scarfalot]

27 minutes ago, Inst said:

The basic problem right now is that the game is based around ex-IQ vs not-IQ. Akuryo's torn into me on this before, but we had proto-IQ in the form of Paracovenant, then Covenant and Paragon, and it's basically been the same two groups of people constantly fighting each other, with some people quitting, some people switching sides (BK is an example), and so on.

This type of hostility needs to stop, because for whatever you might BS about microspheres, as long as these networks and perceptions exist, the same exact wars are going to happen over and over again until one side ends up quitting the game.

Well, it's not like Chaos and KETOG were ever going to go to war with each other in an attempt to alleviate that exact problem. Oh wait, they did. The problem you describe is entirely on IQ, and that should be obvious.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Sir Scarfalot

[Roquentin]

A war with no political basis doesn't erase a network or perceptions. Adrienne described it as something she simply "rolled with" and it was noted to be a war for fun and shaming other people. The only real basis for tension I see between KETOG and Chaos  besides the GOB/CoS thing is with the cultural difference component with CoS/Valinor and it would never make sense for it to be the centerpiece of Chaos FA. So it all relies on CoS who were said to be in limbo post-war.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Roquentin

[Lu Xun]

"Strategic Infrastructure Killing Exercise" (SIKE), a name proposed by a TKR member.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Inst

[Roquentin]

Also by the way I don't go around threatening to report people. It was a particularly messed up instance where the malice factor could have definitely come in given the timing of us hitting as well. I brought up as I perceived it to be as particularly malicious by a so-called neutral government to intervene as soon we are hitting the target. No one else in the alliances that the nation had attacked was amused and it was seen as BS after having had to submit various reports. I won't be cordial if i'm pressed for time and don't see a verdict getting passed either way promptly but even then it was an exceptionally egregious case where someone who was enjoying the comforts of rebuild and positive relations with the other side wouldn't take the people still at war into consideration at all. It would be even more messed up if intentionally screwing the people who declared and who were declared on was a legit tactic. So get off your high horse.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Roquentin

[True King]

1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Well, it's not like Chaos and KETOG were ever going to go to war with each other in an attempt to alleviate that exact problem. Oh wait, they did. The problem you describe is entirely on IQ, and that should be obvious.

At most BK could change their plans in response to your efforts, but you guys weren’t able to finish that war before hitting BK together regardless of whether they still planned to attack after that war. Which kind of made Surf’s Up a wasted effort in whatever it was trying.

Maybe nothing would have changed anyways, but with how you guys responded to the leak probably made it matter little; even if your plan might have had some effectiveness otherwise. 

[Buorhann]

11 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Also by the way I don't go around threatening to report people.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not only is there evidence of this clearly on the forum, the action actually happened.

 

You'd be a great politician in the western world, especially with this latest string of politics going on in our lives.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Buorhann

[Guest Frawley]

This argument is ridiculous, either;

TFP was purchasing a treasure, which:

• Denied coalition B slots;
• Gave comfort and aid (purchase price) to the KERCHTOG coalition; and
• Denied coalition B the chance of gaining a treasure. 

OR, TFP was doing something random during the war, whilst being allied to the KERCHTOG coalition that had the effect of the above.

• Also known as slot filling. 

If the first is true, our CB is rock solid, aiding and abetting the enemy. If the second is true, getting clarification from the affected party and attempting to negotiate a solution (ending wars) that made either scenario redundant is the standard procedure. TFP are here because they made the decison to be here.

[Placentica]

I'm not sure if it's just for PR points "ebil NPO" bullshit, but it sounds like a pretty clear cut case here.  Those logs that came out would've been plenty enough of a CB.  Extremely poor idea for TFP to flex like that. That's not even getting to the warslot issue.

When we fought Oblivion and people were jumping our slots, every single war was a potential problem and dealt with.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Placentica

[Sir Scarfalot]

22 minutes ago, Placentica said:

I'm not sure if it's just for PR points "ebil NPO" bullshit, but it sounds like a pretty clear cut case here.  Those logs that came out would've been plenty enough of a CB.  Extremely poor idea for TFP to flex like that. That's not even getting to the warslot issue.

When we fought Oblivion and people were jumping our slots, every single war was a potential problem and dealt with.

The thing that you seem to be missing is that NPO did not just threaten war and whatnot; that'd be fine. What's not fine, not even close, is that they explicitly and by their own admission threatened to make a report to the admins as a way to extort TFP rather than as good-faith rules enforcement. They literally were trying to use moderation as a direct weapon against their rivals.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sir Scarfalot

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

1 hour ago, Frawley said:

This argument is ridiculous, either;

TFP was purchasing a treasure, which:

• Denied coalition B slots;
• Gave comfort and aid (purchase price) to the KERCHTOG coalition; and
• Denied coalition B the chance of gaining a treasure. 

OR, TFP was doing something random during the war, whilst being allied to the KERCHTOG coalition that had the effect of the above.

• Also known as slot filling. 

If the first is true, our CB is rock solid, aiding and abetting the enemy. If the second is true, getting clarification from the affected party and attempting to negotiate a solution (ending wars) that made either scenario redundant is the standard procedure. TFP are here because they made the decison to be here.

What's ridiculous is your changing the subject as if somehow using mods as a weapon of extortion means you should be treated with respect and open minds.

It doesn't, it means you should get dinged in the head immediately by said mods. Nobody owes you any respect or diplomacy for acting that way. 

Sure, you can still attack over it, but please leave the claims of "woe is me we were treated so rudely" at the door. Roq got less than what he deserved for such behavior.

Obstructing your war effort still isn't slot filling by the way. Blame Alex's rules for that inconvenience to you. Pantheon could start raiding and beiging everyone left right and center in KERCHTOG and it'd suck to be you but it wouldn't be slotfilling. TFP is here because when someone decided to act like a petulant child on Xbox whose dad is bill gates and will get them banned for not doing what they want, and deciding rather rightly such behavior is not worthy of much fond treatment.

Nobody feels bad for you. Behave in a respectable manner instead of invoking gods wrath for people doing things which inconvenience you. That's what's really ridiculous about this argument.

[Guest Frawley]

1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

What's ridiculous is your changing the subject as if somehow using mods as a weapon of extortion means you should be treated with respect and open minds.

It doesn't, it means you should get dinged in the head immediately by said mods. Nobody owes you any respect or diplomacy for acting that way. 

Sure, you can still attack over it, but please leave the claims of "woe is me we were treated so rudely" at the door. Roq got less than what he deserved for such behavior.

Obstructing your war effort still isn't slot filling by the way. Blame Alex's rules for that inconvenience to you. Pantheon could start raiding and beiging everyone left right and center in KERCHTOG and it'd suck to be you but it wouldn't be slotfilling. TFP is here because when someone decided to act like a petulant child on Xbox whose dad is bill gates and will get them banned for not doing what they want, and deciding rather rightly such behavior is not worthy of much fond treatment.

Nobody feels bad for you. Behave in a respectable manner instead of invoking gods wrath for people doing things which inconvenience you. That's what's really ridiculous about this argument.

Your example changes nothing, its either an act of war, and thus valid CB, or its slot filling. TFP was adamant it wasn't an act of war, therefore they were accused of slot filling.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Frawley

[True King]

Maybe war will just be natural state of the world from now on & people will get used to it.

[Roquentin]

12 hours ago, Buorhann said:

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not only is there evidence of this clearly on the forum, the action actually happened.

 

You'd be a great politician in the western world, especially with this latest string of politics going on in our lives.

Um, it would imply I had done it in the past.  Literally white knighting when the specifics of the incident have been made clear and also given you were pushing the limits with keeping your slots filled too, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. You totally don't have an agenda here.  Going around implies plural and you're deliberately twisting, so I thikn you're a much better fit.

Akuryo's also had fairly shady fights in the past.

4 hours ago, Akuryo said:

What's ridiculous is your changing the subject as if somehow using mods as a weapon of extortion means you should be treated with respect and open minds.

It doesn't, it means you should get dinged in the head immediately by said mods. Nobody owes you any respect or diplomacy for acting that way. 

Sure, you can still attack over it, but please leave the claims of "woe is me we were treated so rudely" at the door. Roq got less than what he deserved for such behavior.

Obstructing your war effort still isn't slot filling by the way. Blame Alex's rules for that inconvenience to you. Pantheon could start raiding and beiging everyone left right and center in KERCHTOG and it'd suck to be you but it wouldn't be slotfilling. TFP is here because when someone decided to act like a petulant child on Xbox whose dad is bill gates and will get them banned for not doing what they want, and deciding rather rightly such behavior is not worthy of much fond treatment.

Nobody feels bad for you. Behave in a respectable manner instead of invoking gods wrath for people doing things which inconvenience you. That's what's really ridiculous about this argument.

No. I had people tell me they were going to report behavior in the past.

He prevented the other people from using the slots and the rules are up to the discretion of the mod.

Yeah, you're behaving totally respectable when people in your coalition hsave tried every dirty trick in the book.  Trying to use this as some sort of moralistic cudgel is the real low thing. 

Actual applicable analogy if anyone reads this later:

Person: "I'm calling the cops if you don't turn down the music. I need to sleep."

Person 2: "No. I'd have done it if you asked nicely and I don't think it violates the noise ordinance."

In case you're done with the hatchet job and bullshit analogies, you would read the logs and they would say that I had tried to negotiate with them IC and they gave an IC reason for not doing it and that's why they're here.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Roquentin

[True King]

After TFP defended FR; thought they were pretty much dead to Rose. So interesting all this drama around them, even though barely connected.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Noctis Anarch Caelum

[Limbuwan]

@Roquentin honestly, I don’t know why’re you even trying. If i were you i’d have told 

“Eat shit. We hit whoever we want to and do whatever we want to. Frick you with your morality, responsibility or whatever PR thing. We’ll play how we feel like it. If you want to fight then come get me next war or other.”

I quoted the above text from some one else who said s/he would have said that instead of those long back and forth essay.

Remember soup action against Fark/wtf. I believe the whole war purpose was to send a message that a valid CB is not required. You can apply the same thing here. Also Oblivion vs Alpha.

 Most of the KERTOG coalition wanted war and they got one(not what they expected it to be but regardless still a WAR).

you trying to validate ur CB and actions is making this war and community more toxic. While ur CB maybe true and legit but it matters not. They won’t take it and as u said the logs has been revealed to concerned parties of ur choice.

[True King]

I agree all this explaining further on why you hit them pointless. They refused to do any air attacks while using a slot. People will decide on their own if they think it’s valid; although the reason is known.

[Roquentin]

13 minutes ago, Limbuwan said:

@Roquentin honestly, I don’t know why’re you even trying. If i were you i’d have told 

“Eat shit. We hit whoever we want to and do whatever we want to. Frick you with your morality, responsibility or whatever PR thing. We’ll play how we feel like it. If you want to fight then come get me next war or other.”

I quoted the above text from some one else who said s/he would have said that instead of those long back and forth essay.

Remember soup action against Fark/wtf. I believe the whole war purpose was to send a message that a valid CB is not required. You can apply the same thing here. Also Oblivion vs Alpha.

 Most of the KERTOG coalition wanted war and they got one(not what they expected it to be but regardless still a WAR).

you trying to validate ur CB and actions is making this war and community more toxic. While ur CB maybe true and legit but it matters not. They won’t take it and as u said the logs has been revealed to concerned parties of ur choice.

Oh, you're probably somewhat correct that just telling people to screw off would be more efficient, but it also fits into what they're saying about a hegemony. Of course the only hegemonic stuff I've seen has been them trying to muscle people into cancellations and other stuff. It's pretty clear they don't care.

The soup example would be used to say soup was smaller than them.

If just arguing the point makes the community toxic and there is no opportunity for dialogue or exchange of ideas, then it's just going to be war without politics. I see where you are coming from though, but they have already chosen their path from what I can tell, but yeah I guess doesn't make sense to bother.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Roquentin

[True King]

Although if anyone can be in range of me and want to give me treasure; I might be willing to beige with no air attacks in exchange for treasure & take the risk. XD