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How long will this war go on for?


Kastor
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2 hours ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

Explain what those are and I might consider.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishikesh :) 

1 hour ago, alyster said:

Sorry to interup your fantasy about Chaos rolling everyone. After 2 months of NPO explaining how black is white there is no other conclusion. 

Disagreeing with alliances IC/ political differences/ differences of gameplay does not give you the right to gaslight players or start trying to create a narrative that folks leading the NPO are crazy/deranged. But go on, continue with those efforts. 

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3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Haha come at me bruh. At least I don't go around calling BK slave owners and supporters and call for the disbandment of alliances. But I mean, yes, I'm toxic indeed! 

Also no thx for spiritual retreats :P Unless y'all want to join me at Dharamshala/Rishikesh/Haridwar ;) 

Pointing out your dishonesty is not "toxicity". Though I'm sure that will be a common CB for your hegemony going forward. It's much better than the secret agreements and made up logs you used for this war.

Instead of responding to memes you don't like why not actually address what Adrienne said earlier and that you and Roq ignored. You seem to have a habit of focusing on nonsense and ignoring actual rebuttals to your claims: 

"I’ve been told your “source” is WSxPhoenix and that I told her I had plans to roll you after this war ended. If this is indeed your source, this is a blatant falsehood but I shouldn’t be surprised considering I’ve been shown logs of you delivering more detailed falsehoods about me with even less factual basis. For the record, this is the only conversation I’ve had with her regarding the war and your sphere. We talked a little more about BK and the leaks afterwards but I’m fairly certain nothing in this conversation was deleted as you claim.

WSxPhoenix06/17/2019
Speaking of sharing
Aren't you concerned you guys might get hit by NPO/t$?

Adrienne06/17/2019
If we do, at least we've gone out in a blaze of glory
The amount of f*cks I have to give are astonishingly low
"

Edited by Smith
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57 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Disagreeing with alliances IC/ political differences/ differences of gameplay does not give you the right to gaslight players or start trying to create a narrative that folks leading the NPO are crazy/deranged. But go on, continue with those efforts. 

Don't play the victim card here. Chaos planning roll NPO is not a case of different political views. Its plain lie your alliance keeps repeating. 

Whats the point of discussing things with pacificans if they live in post factual world?

Edited by alyster
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3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Also no thx for spiritual retreats :P Unless y'all want to join me at Dharamshala/Rishikesh/Haridwar ;) 

It's worth the adventure. Last I went to Europe I bought a one way ticket to Norway & figured out where I was staying after I was there. Ended up staying 2 months, since I had so many relatives & extended family I've never met before wanting me to visit; me and my friend rarely stayed in one place more than several days. Would have been way to expensive for me to stay long if I had to pay for a place to stay; but knowing someone in the area can make a vacation much more affordable.

Also Amsterdam is among the most well known to stand firm against the United States aggressive & draconian drug war when the CFR had firm control of our government; as they hijacked the Republican Party to put it in their platform. The natural cures being available legally in Amsterdam did allow their spiritual use to continue even when prosecuted elsewhere, so I think that is of greater modern day spiritual significance. Considering having freedom over how we think versus "Professionals" educated to write prescriptions for whatever drugs are being pushed by big pharma is still an ongoing battle. Even if ground has been gained, as people are spiritually waking up more across the world & able to interconnect with others to awaken them to evils being committed by the politicians funded by the corporations profiting from their harmful policies. So even if people no longer need to go to Amsterdam to legally smoke Cannabis; I don't think anyone who accepts the governments role in deciding whether people can alter their state of mind are truly spiritually free & instead trapped into thinking "Government" needs to control how people think for their own safety.

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19 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Didn't you know, somehow Chaos was going to attack N$O while already fighting BK/Cov.

Somehow.

I don't know how, but Adrienne is some kind of evil untrustworthy master mind.

Nizam man bad

Praise Dio. Every !@#$ing day.

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On 8/7/2019 at 8:34 AM, Smith said:

Pointing out your dishonesty is not "toxicity". Though I'm sure that will be a common CB for your hegemony going forward. It's much better than the secret agreements and made up logs you used for this war.

Instead of responding to memes you don't like why not actually address what Adrienne said earlier and that you and Roq ignored. You seem to have a habit of focusing on nonsense and ignoring actual rebuttals to your claims: 

"I’ve been told your “source” is WSxPhoenix and that I told her I had plans to roll you after this war ended. If this is indeed your source, this is a blatant falsehood but I shouldn’t be surprised considering I’ve been shown logs of you delivering more detailed falsehoods about me with even less factual basis. For the record, this is the only conversation I’ve had with her regarding the war and your sphere. We talked a little more about BK and the leaks afterwards but I’m fairly certain nothing in this conversation was deleted as you claim.

WSxPhoenix06/17/2019
Speaking of sharing
Aren't you concerned you guys might get hit by NPO/t$?

Adrienne06/17/2019
If we do, at least we've gone out in a blaze of glory
The amount of f*cks I have to give are astonishingly low
"

I haven't had the chance to reply to this until now, but It's not ignoring. It was pointed out in other words that it would just be a he said she said thing. I've not taken Adrienne up on her offer to play it out as of yet as in the current atmosphere, it will have virtually no impact.  It would be odd to me if that was the sum of her conversations that evening with people who arrived at that conclusion. 

Not really sure why you expect tons of engagement while simultaneously labeling people as nutjobs or postfactual. it might play well here with the circlejerk.

On 8/6/2019 at 7:07 PM, Buorhann said:

Didn't you know, somehow Chaos was going to attack N$O while already fighting BK/Cov.

Somehow.

I don't know how, but Adrienne is some kind of evil untrustworthy master mind.

So I'm starting to think under was right and it's a mistake to engage these types of propaganda claims in good faith. It's basically another example of a denial of a basic fact: plenty of nations in range were freed up and becoming freed up. A bunch of 25-32 city nations were in range of hitting anyone our size.

Yes,  Buorhann, Chaos' 18-30 city tier was totally occupied fighting BK/Cov(the statpad or high city guys with no mil are so tough yeah) and the coalition totally had no one to counter . It has nothing to do with Nizam being an evil mastermind. You could have discussed future plans with her for all I know. Also I'm not really prefacing it on it being N$O as a whole. There are a few different ways it plays out. Coalition eventually moves to bail out Guardian, or one of the spheres moves to hit one alliance and then see what happens. Some people could have been counting on drops at some point as well. I don't really want to speculate on the specific action plans as there are plenty of plausible ways it could have happened.

 

On 8/6/2019 at 1:37 PM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

So you had actionable intel but didn't want to act on it.  But then felt it reached critical mass when you interfered with our war by attacking us?  Isn't that a little bit of a self-fulfilling   prophecy? 

We delayed doing anything out of respect for the wishes of the other alliances. The window for doing anything was closing fast and the hostility was increasing. This whole thing where we should let whatever people said slide and wait for them to have the ability to act as if it didn't reflect their true opinions wasn't going to work. If it wasn't turning into a completely lop-sided war, we would have had no compulsion to act in a rush.

 

 

 

Edited by Roquentin
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Honestly, taking advice from under of all people on who not to engage with is a tad silly, considering it's typically wise not to bother engaging with his endless trolling either.

It's like if a con-artist master thief is telling you to fear the rogue house burglars the next neighborhood over while he steals your neighbor's life savings. :P

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2 hours ago, Roquentin said:

I haven't had the chance to reply to this until now, but It's not ignoring. It was pointed out in other words that it would just be a he said she said thing. I've not taken Adrienne up on her offer to play it out as of yet as in the current atmosphere, it will have virtually no impact.  It would be odd to me if that was the sum of her conversations that evening with people who arrived at that conclusion. 

Not really sure why you expect tons of engagement while simultaneously labeling people as nutjobs or postfactual. it might play well here with the circlejerk

See the thing is, we ARE getting tons of engagement from your side, but you are very selective on what you reply to. You certainly have no problem calling Adrienne a liar nonstop for months without providing any proof. Your side also has no problem arguing other topics as seen throughout this and other threads.

The only thing you can't seem to address is rebuttals to your CB for yet another dogpile. You say this is because people are calling you are liar so we should not expect “engagement” from you despite your CB and narrative being predicated on us being liars.

Even when we provide logs that we think might be what you are referring to, we still can't get a straight answer out of you. 

What people are asking here is very simple. You started another dogpile with the claim you have logs that shows Adrienne was lying and planning to hit you. So please back up your claims since you apparently dislike baseless accusations of lying.

Edited by Smith
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@Roquentin - Under is right.  Your attempts to try and justify your entrance into the war by pinning it on TKR is bullshit.

Afterall, you knew of Cov/BKs plan from the beginning, didn’t you?

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3 hours ago, Buorhann said:

@Roquentin - Under is right.  Your attempts to try and justify your entrance into the war by pinning it on TKR is bullshit.

Afterall, you knew of Cov/BKs plan from the beginning, didn’t you?

> Don’t call TKR liars without proof. 

> You’re a liar but I have no proof. 

Edited by Aragorn, son of Arathorn
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13 minutes ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

> Don’t call TKR liars without proof. 

> You’re a liar but I have no proof. 

> I'm not allied to NPO

> We were planning wars on precisely the same date, side with each other in every global conflict since over two years ago, they entered for fear of us losing a war that we instigated, and we apparently run a merged FA department where we answer questions directed at each other

> We ran a multi-year whining narrative about other people's supposed secret ties

> None of the above is contradictory and none of if constitutes proof we are lying

> Orange man bad

Edited by Spaceman Thrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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11 hours ago, Buorhann said:

@Roquentin - Under is right.  Your attempts to try and justify your entrance into the war by pinning it on TKR is bullshit.

Afterall, you knew of Cov/BKs plan from the beginning, didn’t you?

I had every justification for entering the war: historically antagonistic spheres gaining increasing leverage while being publicly hostile. That on its own would have been enough for me. I had to restore the balance of power if I perceived it being tilted to people who might harbor ill will. The info was the proximal reason and was only posted to begin with for a specific reason. 

Not sure what you mean. Everyone knew that BK and TCW had issues with Chaos and vice versa. There could have been an entirely disconnected KETOG war if Kayser had not ruled out going to war in May due to his concern over Alpha's rep demands.

Basically all this framing as a mortal sin committed against you just tells me there's no real room for dialogue or negotiation. I have zero interest in just rolling over so you can get to revanchist plotting as pretty much every ominous comment seems to indicate.

 

14 hours ago, Smith said:

See the thing is, we ARE getting tons of engagement from your side, but you are very selective on what you reply to. You certainly have no problem calling Adrienne a liar nonstop for months without providing any proof. Your side also has no problem arguing other topics as seen throughout this and other threads.

The only thing you can't seem to address is rebuttals to your CB for yet another dogpile. You say this is because people are calling you are liar so we should not expect “engagement” from you despite your CB and narrative being predicated on us being liars.

Even when we provide logs that we think might be what you are referring to, we still can't get a straight answer out of you. 

What people are asking here is very simple. You started another dogpile with the claim you have logs that shows Adrienne was lying and planning to hit you. So please back up your claims since you apparently dislike baseless accusations of lying.

The straight answer is there are contradictory accounts of the conversations she's referred to. It becomes into a he said she said thing. I said the implication is someone is lying and the someone who is lying is going to be hard to determine given the claims aren't compatible. I could plop  down a screenshot of people she talked to saying the complete opposite of her accounts, but that's not something I've seen as worth it and I don't really feel it'd get anything besides them being called liars and everyone siding with Adrienne's account anyway. I get virtually nothing and I put some people on the spot for no gain. I'd rather just take the heat if I have to take it either way. I have the courage of conviction to deal with the vitriol without the KERCHTOGG fanclub at my side.

 

8 hours ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

> I'm not allied to NPO

> We were planning wars on precisely the same date, side with each other in every global conflict since over two years ago, they entered for fear of us losing a war that we instigated, and we apparently run a merged FA department where we answer questions directed at each other

> We ran a multi-year whining narrative about other people's supposed secret ties

> None of the above is contradictory and none of if constitutes proof we are lying

> Orange man bad

When were they same date? I'm pretty sure the KETOG one was set to be earlier, which is ironic. 

Talking about a merged FA department is real rich when BK was originally silent, people like Mikey were saying we were worse people OOC because we were using guile and lying while BK was just signing a lot of treaties. It's also rich when your side has been a combination of drum circles and pitchfork groups pumping each other up the entire war despite so-called differences with stuff like Buorhann gushing over TKR's ability to statpad on the radio and just countless examples of everyone always upvoting each other.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

I had every justification for entering the war: historically antagonistic spheres gaining increasing leverage while being publicly hostile. That on its own would have been enough for me. I had to restore the balance of power if I perceived it being tilted to people who might harbor ill will. The info was the proximal reason and was only posted to begin with for a specific reason. 

Not sure what you mean. Everyone knew that BK and TCW had issues with Chaos and vice versa. There could have been an entirely disconnected KETOG war if Kayser had not ruled out going to war in May due to his concern over Alpha's rep demands.Basically all this framing as a mortal sin committed against you just tells me there's no real room for dialogue or negotiation. I have zero interest in just rolling over so you can get to revanchist plotting as pretty much every ominous comment seems to indicate.

If you had every justification to enter the war, why didn't Syndicate and NPO just declare on every alliance instead of trying to nitpick?  Seems like your attempts to pressure the Syndicate community into hitting all of KETOG and not just choice alliances (Guardian/Grumpy) didn't exactly go according to plan, did it?

Or perhaps you weren't completely honest with the talks you've had with Kayser (And others)?  Seemed ill timed that Kayser had to go inactive, otherwise your planning alongside with BK could've gone off without a hitch - maybe, since he'd still have to persuade Syndicate to follow NPO's desires (Which is a long shot).

I find it fricking hilarious that you and other NPO members claim the toxicity of others, yet...  none of you denied the attempts of others to work with NPO before this war too. Seems a bit of a contradiction there.

 

Personally, I think you don't want to outright admit that you had plans with Kayser and Leo.  That the whole leak from TCW was indeed entirely true, that N$O were originally going to hit KETOG at an assigned date the same time that BK/Cov would hit Chaos.  I'm still unsure whether Syndicate/HS leads still knew of that particular timing (Well, they knew of the "time" but weren't aware that it'd line up along with BK/Cov's hit too), but so far the signs point to "no" on that.  Which leads me to think that this was strictly a collaboration between NPO and BK, just behind everybody else's backs.

Now the other plan was that if Chaos/KETOG were to form up, that you two would indeed team up against it.  Which seems to be what you're trying to get at in some half-assed round-about way (Or are you sure it's just TKR planning a hit on you that caused this? lol).  Despite the fact that BK/Cov had their unfortunate leak, which provoked both of our spheres to react to it.

 

Despite all the bullshit being spewed, there is one common denominator here:  NPO and BK are still tied together.  Any one thinking that your two alliances are not, are simply fooling themselves.  Of course you could throw in Acadia, UPN, Camelot, etc. but they're not nearly as relevant.  Everything, from Frawley and Leo admitting that BK/NPO would not fight each other to all the way up to this...  just shows that there is no working with one of you without having the other attached to it.

Edited by Buorhann
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At least Bourann is being a good sport about his plans going completely wrong. (Not sure how he thought preemptive strikes on everyone mentioned in that plot except NPO/Syn wouldn’t make them feel next even if he claimed to believe them not involved; while wanting to fight BK separate)

Although whichever side is complaining the most over peace not coming soon enough, seem like they’re probably losing regardless of some stats in a database being in their favor. So many fighting NPO don’t think they can win; they probably can’t. 

Not sure if TGH does it intentionally, but seems they pile on reasons they can never have peace with NPO; since they haven’t been given peace yet. Although maybe a long war is their intention as well..

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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

If you had every justification to enter the war, why didn't Syndicate and NPO just declare on every alliance instead of trying to nitpick?  Seems like your attempts to pressure the Syndicate community into hitting all of KETOG and not just choice alliances (Guardian/Grumpy) didn't exactly go according to plan, did it?

Syndicate didn't want to do anything to impact the global. I'm not gonna say what they would have done otherwise. I also didn't ever try to pressure them to hit all of KETOG. I simply wanted autonomy of action. It keeps being framed as me trying to use them when all I wanted as a minimum thing was just to be able to intervene on our own.

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Or perhaps you weren't completely honest with the talks you've had with Kayser (And others)?  Seemed ill timed that Kayser had to go inactive, otherwise your planning alongside with BK could've gone off without a hitch - maybe, since he'd still have to persuade Syndicate to follow NPO's desires (Which is a long shot).

I find it fricking hilarious that you and other NPO members claim the toxicity of others, yet...  none of you denied the attempts of others to work with NPO before this war too. Seems a bit of a contradiction there.

Everything had been agreed to outside of the context of the global war. Several of the people you and smith have cited as sources have said they would have expected it to happen anyway.

We wanted scenarios where it wasn't just us meatshielding(now this is actual meatshielding as it means other people get to keep infra and pump up rather than just being allied to a bigger alliance) for people vs BK. No one wanted to present one where they had to give something up themselves.  One was the KETOG people get an easy war the other was basically the same thing but a certain alliance getting to keep its 2500 infra builds. NPO and BK take damage in almost every war, so if you wanted us to be your tank against them, then it would have had to have been sweetened considerably. Otherwise, it's just a gift to the whales.

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

 

Personally, I think you don't want to outright admit that you had plans with Kayser and Leo.  That the whole leak from TCW was indeed entirely true, that N$O were originally going to hit KETOG at an assigned date the same time that BK/Cov would hit Chaos.  I'm still unsure whether Syndicate/HS leads still knew of that particular timing (Well, they knew of the "time" but weren't aware that it'd line up along with BK/Cov's hit too), but so far the signs point to "no" on that.  Which leads me to think that this was strictly a collaboration between NPO and BK, just behind everybody else's backs.

If it had gone through it wouldn't have been at the same time.  What was known was that the BKsphere was going to go after Chaos no matter what and that was known by people on your side as well. There are a few ways the potential dates could have gotten to people, but had they charged first, it would have given a pause. I wasn't aware of the battle plans listed, but 

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Now the other plan was that if Chaos/KETOG were to form up, that you two would indeed team up against it.  Which seems to be what you're trying to get at in some half-assed round-about way (Or are you sure it's just TKR planning a hit on you that caused this? lol).  Despite the fact that BK/Cov had their unfortunate leak, which provoked both of our spheres to react to it.

 

Despite all the bullshit being spewed, there is one common denominator here:  NPO and BK are still tied together.  Any one thinking that your two alliances are not, are simply fooling themselves.  Of course you could throw in Acadia, UPN, Camelot, etc. but they're not nearly as relevant.  Everything, from Frawley and Leo admitting that BK/NPO would not fight each other to all the way up to this...  just shows that there is no working with one of you without having the other attached to it.

It was that if the two were to team up, they would be too difficult to bring down without the other spheres teaming up as well. Given prior interest in cooperation between KETOG and Chaos before, it wasn't  a stretch to me.

Frawley and Leo's position was that it would simple be mutually assured destruction with no real advantage being gained or a curbstomp. Every time I got a BK rolling proposed to me, I pointed out the problematic aspects and that their sphere was unproven and people knew it wouldn't be a huge challenge if it were put on the backfoot.

If you want people to ram into someone else for you in a way that will cancel out two large AAs or result in a curbstomp, then someone else has to do some bleeding as well. It can't be everyone else gets to whale out while we're the big damage sponge.

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It does seem to me that BK/NPO planned something, idk how far it went down Buorhann’s conspiracy theories or whatever. But there was obviously a mutual consensus around something.

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It basically comes down to we don't trust KETOG or Chaos much. People only wanted us for hitting BK.  The problem with that is, at first I mainly saw tS and Mensa as military threats and then when it became clear it'd always be a BK/NPO match-up, I reoriented everything we ever did around fighting BK and it frankly sucked and everyone else profited and no one wanted to work with us besides Partisan and Lordaeron(obv :P) and he had limited political capital after leaving tS and doing HW.  So when BK were the only ones willing to work with us outside of the traditional paracov remnants there is always going to be a lot of skepticism to returning to that paradigm and opening up new grudges between the two alliances when it's essentially known to be welfare for the rich.

Edited by Roquentin
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12 minutes ago, Kastor said:

It does seem to me that BK/NPO planned something, idk how far it went down Buorhann’s conspiracy theories or whatever. But there was obviously a mutual consensus around something.

The only plan that existed is that I've also been very publicly clear I have 0 interest in fighting BK because of the reasons Roq pointed out. 

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It'll end when all the kids needs to go back to uni.

 

Also Justin, pretty sure the last war(s) have been dragged out, not because of BK, but because someone doesn't understand just surrendering and moving on. Being an eternal dick will get you eternally dickslapped. Izi pizi.

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"Don't argue with members of The Golden Horde. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Probably someone on OWF.

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12 hours ago, Roquentin said:

The straight answer is there are contradictory accounts of the conversations she's referred to. It becomes into a he said she said thing. I said the implication is someone is lying and the someone who is lying is going to be hard to determine given the claims aren't compatible. I could plop  down a screenshot of people she talked to saying the complete opposite of her accounts, but that's not something I've seen as worth it and I don't really feel it'd get anything besides them being called liars and everyone siding with Adrienne's account anyway. I get virtually nothing and I put some people on the spot for no gain. I'd rather just take the heat if I have to take it either way. I have the courage of conviction to deal with the vitriol without the KERCHTOGG fanclub at my side.

It is not "courageous" to dogpile the same alliances over and over again. It is not courageous to to say you have a rock-solid CB, accuse the other side of lying and then provide no proof. It is not courageous to set your ally up to be rolled. 

It is certainly not courageous to do all this and then brag about how brave you are. 

Edited by Smith

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11 hours ago, Roquentin said:

It basically comes down to we don't trust KETOG or Chaos much. People only wanted us for hitting BK.  The problem with that is, at first I mainly saw tS and Mensa as military threats and then when it became clear it'd always be a BK/NPO match-up, I reoriented everything we ever did around fighting BK and it frankly sucked and everyone else profited and no one wanted to work with us besides Partisan and Lordaeron(obv :P) and he had limited political capital after leaving tS and doing HW.  So when BK were the only ones willing to work with us outside of the traditional paracov remnants there is always going to be a lot of skepticism to returning to that paradigm and opening up new grudges between the two alliances when it's essentially known to be welfare for the rich.

We fought previous allies.  Multiple times.

Even agreed to have support sent your coalitions way.

You can keep harping about distrust and bring up the past, but again - actions say otherwise.

>BK were the only ones willing to work with you

Uh, yeah...  this is bullshit

11 hours ago, Kastor said:

It does seem to me that BK/NPO planned something, idk how far it went down Buorhann’s conspiracy theories or whatever. But there was obviously a mutual consensus around something.

You should ask around.  You may be able to get something.

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