Lu Xun Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Driving people from the game, unfortunately, is the best way to deal damage to opponents. For instance, if a single Grumpy C30 were to delete or defect, it would represent the destruction about 8 billion, far more than could be done with conventional warfare. Seb leaving would deal about the same damage as Theodosius' successful looting of the Polaris bank. 1 Quote . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Epi said: I'm aware of that and I hold my own strong opinions against it. I've just haven't had as many discussions with them on the topic. In general I've found non-IQ more open about pragmatic and kinda immoral politics. That's not saying it doesn't happen here either. My initial comment was kinda subjective, since I'm not an older 2014-2016 player, it's something I've gauged by scrolling through years of forum posts. Given people haven't refuted the main argument it might be accurate tho. Glad to see so much discussion. XD. Threads aren't threads when have the posts aren't building off one another. Paradox: a counter argument is that you guys have more older players and have more smaller aas, that focus on member retention etc. Over mass membership. But if you pay attention to who focused on deletions more, it's been the ketog-syndi groups. They have a larger forum presence tho so that offsets things even years prior. Deletions are more meaningful when you're not shoveling in replacements left and right. I wouldn't say they focus on it, though sketchy does track those things, for both sides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elijah Mikaelson Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 Advanced issues found ▲ 3 On 7/3/2019 at 4:32 AM, Avakael said: Currently, if you win a nation vs nation war, you have no dictation over what happens next. Often, the beige timer that your opponent is going to get will leave them better off than if you didn't win the war at all- especially if there's no money to loot. Instead, I would suggest that as part of the act of winning a war, the victor should be able to declare terms. These terms could include all the things that currently happen, and more (and these are just ideas and examples); Loot from the nation, Loot from the alliance bank, Not being able to declare new wars for a period of time, Enforced debt (i.e. a portion of the opponents tax income is taken and handed to the victor until it is paid off), Not being able to buy military units above a certain percentage for some time, Forcible conscription of some opposing surviving military units, Destruction of infrastructure, Destruction of improvements (at random, so we can't forcibly choose hangars or power plants). A beige timer would still exist, but the number of turns spent in beige would depend on the harshness of the terms inflicted. Therefore, if you won the war, and you chose to not attach terms, the beige timer should be relatively short (for example, 6 turns). If you won the war and decided to inflict as many terms as possible, the beige timer would be much longer. The value of the terms inflicted, and thus the length of the beige timer, should be capped at no more than the percentage of resistance you won the war by. If you won by 6 resistance or less, you wouldn't be able to select any terms; if you won by 20, you'd be able to select maybe one thing, if you won by 50, something harsher, etc. These changes are one possible idea, I'm sure there's other better ones to be thought of. Loot from the nation, Loot from the alliance bank, You get both of these when you win anyway? As you said if they have nothing you can not loot it. Not being able to declare new wars for a period of time, Most who get beige do not declare new wars as it will take them out of beige so again this is already in place. Enforced debt (i.e. a portion of the opponents tax income is taken and handed to the victor until it is paid off), Who is to say how much the debt is, I have fought a lot this war and some have not hit back at all, so what range of debt we looking at, as if you are saying depending on the damage done, then if I hit a 10 city nation and wipe him out then the debt I could put on him would cripple his income for a long time, What I'm trying to say the debt has to be manageable for the one losing, as right now if 6 people all beige one person how long before that is paid off, I personally think this is a bad idea. Not being able to buy military units above a certain percentage for some time, So you will keep people down, seem many large nations get beaten and taken down how hard would it be if they can only buy 80% that's 360 planes off a 20 city nation meaning they can only buy to 1440 planes, making it way to easy to pull and drag and finally keep people down. Forcible conscription of some opposing surviving military units, You know most people who lose a war in these stages have no unit's towards the end or very few, so tell me what would this be worth? Destruction of infrastructure, Again already in place, you can lose up to 10% of your infra when losing a war, not many have infra now? Destruction of improvements (at random, so we can't forcibly choose hangars or power plants). Already have with ground attacks and navy attacks, just these are not as powerful as planes so hardly used only by those with no planes really. In closing the real truth right now is the war system is slacking let's face it everything you said is pretty much already in place the problem is the war system is not right, people using just plane stat should not win wars, Ground units boost planes, planes boost ground, yet what do ships do?http://politicsandwar.com/index.php?id=129 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said: I've always taken a stance that there's no pride in leading to someone deleting or driving people out of the game and we've never gunned for either of those as a goal of war. Your side on the other hand, has gleefully stated otherwise and has even touted it during peace negotiations: I recognised that ID so I checked my former member records and it was AIOS, who was a pixel hugger who left tCW the day before Knightfall begun without saying anything and joined TFP, before IQ wrecked them and he and a few other pixel huggers from tCW deleted (Good riddance IMO). I'll shed no tears over people who leave when their alliance needed them, they don't contribute anything to the game from their presence and our war effort was hampered greatly by people going AWOL, or VM. Needlessly to say I do agree that losing competent people is a shame however, and its not something I'd celebrate but nothing of value to the game was lost the day those people deleted and left Felkey/Yui with that mess. 9 hours ago, Akuryo said: Talk to whose leadership? Again, BK, TCW, certainly. KT? Maybe? But id also imagine they'd follow up with saying they'd also delete because trolling is KTs thing. My point is that the only people in power who are serious about that, are on one side of the aisle. I'd never delete, I enjoy the drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said: -snip- oh cool we're posting logs from the peace server now? 2 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Epi Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 1 Edited February 17, 2021 by Epi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Epi said: I'm aware of that and I hold my own strong opinions against it. I've just haven't had as many discussions with them on the topic. In general I've found non-IQ more open about pragmatic and kinda immoral politics "Thank you for providing proof that I'm wrong. I'm aware of it, as evidenced by the fact that I've done nothing about it. You guys do it more, though, and my proof is nothing." Your "opinions" don't matter if you do less than nothing about them. Edited July 16, 2019 by Spaceman Thrax 3 Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 20 hours ago, Spaceman Thrax said: Fun fact, part of the impetus for creating Chaos was how disgusting some of the alliances in our previous coalition were. In my opinion the worst alliances were BK, Acadia, and UPN. Funny how it's always the alliances who need other people to do their heavy lifting that seem to have ideas about punishing other communities, isn't it? I'm glad Sphinx found friends that suit his play style. Ripper can't stop me from enforcing this peace term now. You're doomed and so is all of Orbis mwahahahaha 1 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Epi Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 1 Edited February 17, 2021 by Epi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Epi said: -gibberish- You know, partial credit, because being aware you're a goof puts you ahead of the pack actually. Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Spaceman Thrax said: "Thank you for providing proof that I'm wrong. I'm aware of it, as evidenced by the fact that I've done nothing about it. You guys do it more, though, and my proof is nothing." Your "opinions" don't matter if you do less than nothing about them. Given that you're literally in a bloc with alliances that supported mercy boards and public shaming of folks who make mistakes in this game, and also part of coalitions that have attempted some of the most punitive terms in the history of Orbis its funny to hear you call other alliances toxic. Probably best start clearing house in Chaos first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: Given that you're literally in a bloc with alliances that supported mercy boards and public shaming of folks who make mistakes in this game, and also part of coalitions that have attempted some of the most punitive terms in the history of Orbis its funny to hear you call other alliances toxic. Probably best start clearing house in Chaos first Yeah asking people to draw art for mistrades was definitely comparable to deliberately trying to run people out of the game. I'd ask if you ever get tired of being full of it but I already know the answer. Edited July 16, 2019 by Spaceman Thrax 5 Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menhera Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said: Given that you're literally in a bloc with alliances that supported mercy boards and public shaming of folks who make mistakes in this game, and also part of coalitions that have attempted some of the most punitive terms in the history of Orbis its funny to hear you call other alliances toxic. Probably best start clearing house in Chaos first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Spaceman Thrax said: Yeah asking people to draw art for mistrades was definitely comparable to deliberately trying to run people out of the game. I'd ask if you ever get tired of being full of it but I already know the answer. Yes because mercy boards does not involve shaming individuals for making mistakes and isn't one of the more toxic elements brought in from other worlds, practiced by some of the more toxic alliances I've ever seen function. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: Yes because mercy boards does not involve shaming individuals for making mistakes and isn't one of the more toxic elements brought in from other worlds, practiced by some of the more toxic alliances I've ever seen function. I didn't mention other worlds or toxicity, actually. But now that you've mentioned it as part of your toxic post referencing another world I start to wonder.... Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: Yes because mercy boards does not involve shaming individuals for making mistakes and isn't one of the more toxic elements brought in from other worlds, practiced by some of the more toxic alliances I've ever seen function. Thank you for enlightening everyone to the horrors and humiliations of drawing a unicorn in MS Paint; it is definitely comparable to people who delight in causing others to quit the game. Edited July 16, 2019 by Smith 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said: Yes because mercy boards does not involve shaming individuals for making mistakes and isn't one of the more toxic elements brought in from other worlds, practiced by some of the more toxic alliances I've ever seen function. As thrax nobody has brought up other worlds, and considering NPOs history in those worlds, you would be unbelievably wise not to be the one to bring it up. And what exactly are these terms you're claiming someone from... Coalition A, I'm not saying that other name, tried to levy? When were these even from? It's not KETOG because the most punitive thing any of them had a chance to do to you is argue for no 6 month NAP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Akuryo said: As thrax nobody has brought up other worlds, and considering NPOs history in those worlds, you would be unbelievably wise not to be the one to bring it up. And what exactly are these terms you're claiming someone from... Coalition A, I'm not saying that other name, tried to levy? When were these even from? It's not KETOG because the most punitive thing any of them had a chance to do to you is argue for no 6 month NAP. Seeing how mercy boards as a function have been ported here, I can safely say its one of the worst bully pits I have seen and its disappointing people think its some sort of fun place to shame people to do stuff for mistakes lol. I mean the largest reps in Orbis was paid to Guardian iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 11 hours ago, Malal said: oh cool we're posting logs from the peace server now? lol, that quote from Leo is quite possibly one of the most retarded statements he ever made in multiple ways. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordship Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: Seeing how mercy boards as a function have been ported here, I can safely say its one of the worst bully pits I have seen and its disappointing people think its some sort of fun place to shame people to do stuff for mistakes lol. I mean the largest reps in Orbis was paid to Guardian iirc. It has been my experience and the experience of a ton of people I've interacted with that the mistrades artwork exchange has lead to the building of friendships, fun laughs for all involved, and ultimately people getting their money returned where they otherwise would just lose the trade entirely. I know you think everyone has the same victimhood complex that you do, and that reality is as NPO claims it to be, but this is simply not the case. It's also rich seeing you talking about "bullying" when you're literally hitting an alliance on your side because they are beiging instead of handling it diplomatically. 4 Quote Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Lordship said: It has been my experience and the experience of a ton of people I've interacted with that the mistrades artwork exchange has lead to the building of friendships, fun laughs for all involved, and ultimately people getting their money returned where they otherwise would just lose the trade entirely. I know you think everyone has the same victimhood complex that you do, and that reality is as NPO claims it to be, but this is simply not the case. It's also rich seeing you talking about "bullying" when you're literally hitting an alliance on your side because they are beiging instead of handling it diplomatically. He personally had talked with the leader of OFA about it and multiple in the coalition did. ----- Related to main subject of deletions: Since this is OOC, I'm going to say the deletions are the product of lack of proper acculturation early on. People go in seeing it as model UN with mechanics and war as a last resort. They aren't taught to handle losing and have an emotional attachment so you see a lot of players quit when raided . Then there a lot of players who stick around see it as a growth game and they join alliances thinking they can just grow or win wars and grow and always do that. When those alliances lose, sometimes they go to someone on the winning side or another supposed better option for material advantage. Alliances as a whole were praised for exiting wars losing early in the interest of self-preservation and it led to a pervasive mentality outside of the core main players that you can't tolerate losing. Most of the core players take a lot of damage and usually more than the players who crack right away e.g. alliances that exited the global war. This used to be encouraged by alliances that won. The thing is and we've tried to make this clear is there's no safe place for you to grow forever and you will incur heavy losses at some point. When you get promised peace and easy stuff or winning wars all the time like some alliances used to do, of course the person is going to delete when the heat is turned up too high. There's no way to avoid that. They have to either be willing to accept it as a war game where they can't always do well or not. Edited July 18, 2019 by Roquentin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Roquentin said: He personally had talked with the leader of OFA about it and multiple in the coalition did. What about Commerce Union? Did people on your side get their permission? https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=5279 Commerce Union has been disbanded. To Coalition B Leaders: You threatened us one too many times. Attack any one of my members and I will leak classified OPSEC to your enemies." It appears they weren't living up to your side's expectations and due to consistent threats/attacks from their own coalition partners they felt they had no choice but to disband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Smith said: What about Commerce Union? Did people on your side get their permission? https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=5279 Commerce Union has been disbanded. To Coalition B Leaders: You threatened us one too many times. Attack any one of my members and I will leak classified OPSEC to your enemies." It appears they weren't living up to your side's expectations and due to consistent threats/attacks from their own coalition partners they felt they had no choice but to disband. I'm just waiting on that juicy OPSEC :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roq Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 12:18 PM, Akuryo said: It's not KETOG because the most punitive thing any of them had a chance to do to you is argue for no 6 month NAP. As a member of KETOG, I don't want a 6 month NAP.... I WANT A 12 MONTH NAP! And, every time I beige someone I want 10% of their economy for 1 month, so that when peace breaks and they start making money again, I'm earning that sweet money. Not only will I have my own economy to boost my rebuild back to the upper echelon of infrastructure builds, I'll have some other people's as well. Mwahhaa! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 No 'Enforced' stuff would damage the game, it's nice as it is that the enemy may always lie, not pay back, run away with the debt This is kind of a game of conspiracy and i think it should stay this way With peace terms discussed on discord, based on trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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