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Alex

6/28/2019 - Credit Redemption for Resources, @Purchasing

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Hello everyone! A few changes to announce:

Credit Redemption for Resources Change

I've changed the credit resource redemption option. Previously, you could exchange 1 Credit for 2,000 Gasoline, Munitions, Steel, or Aluminum. I've updated this option to include all resources, and updated the quantities to be worth ~$15,000,000 in-game to match the Credit-for-cash option. I understand that right now there is an ongoing war and prices are inflated a bit; I did take that into account when coming up with my numbers.

The option is available on the Donate page (or direct link). Here is a list of the resources & quantites you can receive for 1 Credit. (Note: redeeming Credits for resources counts against your 10 Credit per month redemption limit.)

image.png

@Purchasing of Infrastructure and Land

This new feature is what I call "@purchasing" and simplifies your experience by letting the game do some math for you. If you've ever been in a situation where you knew how much infrastructure or land you wanted in your city, but weren't sure exactly the quantity needed to get there, this change will make your life easier.

Instead of entering the amount of infrastructure or land you want to buy in your city, you can also enter a quantity with an @ symbol before it to designate that is the total amount you would like in your city. For example, if you had 756.14 infra in your city, and you wanted to buy to 1,500 infra, you could calculate that you need 743.86 and enter that amount, or simply punch in @1500 and the game will automatically calculate how much infrastructure you need to purchase to reach 1,500 in your city.

You can watch a short video demo here:

 

Vacation Mode nations will no longer receive daily login bonus

This one should be pretty self explanatory. If you're in vacation mode, you will no longer receive a login bonus (however, logging in daily will still count toward your login streak.)

 

If anyone has any questions, please let me know!

EDIT: See a later update to this post, here: 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Hello everyone! A few changes to announce:

Credit Redemption for Resources Change

I've changed the credit resource redemption option. Previously, you could exchange 1 Credit for 2,000 Gasoline, Munitions, Steel, or Aluminum. I've updated this option to include all resources, and updated the quantities to be worth ~$15,000,000 in-game to match the Credit-for-cash option. I understand that right now there is an ongoing war and prices are inflated a bit; I did take that into account when coming up with my numbers.

The option is available on the Donate page (or direct link). Here is a list of the resources & quantites you can receive for 1 Credit. (Note: redeeming Credits for resources counts against your 10 Credit per month redemption limit.)

image.png

@Purchasing of Infrastructure and Land

This new feature is what I call "@purchasing" and simplifies your experience by letting the game do some math for you. If you've ever been in a situation where you knew how much infrastructure or land you wanted in your city, but weren't sure exactly the quantity needed to get there, this change will make your life easier.

Instead of entering the amount of infrastructure or land you want to buy in your city, you can also enter a quantity with an @ symbol before it to designate that is the total amount you would like in your city. For example, if you had 756.14 infra in your city, and you wanted to buy to 1,500 infra, you could calculate that you need 743.86 and enter that amount, or simply punch in @1500 and the game will automatically calculate how much infrastructure you need to purchase to reach 1,500 in your city.

You can watch a short video demo here:

 

Vacation Mode nations will no longer receive daily login bonus

This one should be pretty self explanatory. If you're in vacation mode, you will no longer receive a login bonus (however, logging in daily will still count toward your login streak.)

 

If anyone has any questions, please let me know!

Are you sure that's 75k steel and not 7500?

Otherwise, who the hell needs to ever produce steel again.

Edited by 🗲ϟħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™🗲
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2 minutes ago, 🗲ϟħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™🗲 said:

Are you sure that's 75k steel and not 7500?

Otherwise, who the hell needs to ever produce steel again.

 

1 minute ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I'm guessing the steel amount is supposed to be 7,500?

Ah yes, you're both correct. I'll update that here.

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1 hour ago, 🗲ϟħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™🗲 said:

Are you sure that's 75k steel and not 7500?

Otherwise, who the hell needs to ever produce steel again.

 

1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

I'm guessing the steel amount is supposed to be 7,500?

wtf coulda sued Sheepy for false advertisement and demanded 75k steel

(Jokes aside, good spot. Did a double take when I saw that number too)

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Some long awaited changes xD

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This is, well, nuts. The point of direct credit redemption is to bypass blockades. I think the request was to go back to scaling with old credit values. I mean, I've been someone throwing credits around like they were confetti, but the game-breaking aspect was only possible in the 0-10 cities part.


Right now, the going price of credits is roughly equivalent to 475,000,000 mn a month on max credits. Sphinx, who was a high income earner in peacetime, was making about the equivalent of 2 billion a month, and that's after spending tens of billions on building his nation. A typical 10 city nation would be making only 300 million a month, and considering present credit prices they would be making more than half their income from credit buys.

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As much as I like the changes @Alex any idea when you will enable us to bulk buy infra in all cities as we do improvements? though the @ is a great improvement been able to import a build into a city would work best.
"infra_needed": 2500,
"imp_total": 50,
"imp_coalpower": 0,


would be good when important a build the infra you put at the time would indeed buy infra needed in all cities.

4 minutes ago, Inst said:

This is, well, nuts. The point of direct credit redemption is to bypass blockades. I think the request was to go back to scaling with old credit values. I mean, I've been someone throwing credits around like they were confetti, but the game-breaking aspect was only possible in the 0-10 cities part.


Right now, the going price of credits is roughly equivalent to 475,000,000 mn a month on max credits. Sphinx, who was a high income earner in peacetime, was making about the equivalent of 2 billion a month, and that's after spending tens of billions on building his nation. A typical 10 city nation would be making only 300 million a month, and considering present credit prices they would be making more than half their income from credit buys.

I Do believe that's the point, it gives small nations a greater chance of growing quicker, as someone like Sphinx won't need to buy ten credits ever he makes enough to simply buy them off the market if he ever needed too, where small nations can then make a greater leap forward.

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2 minutes ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

As much as I like the changes @Alex any idea when you will enable us to bulk buy infra in all cities as we do improvements? though the @ is a great improvement been able to import a build into a city would work best.
"infra_needed": 2500,
"imp_total": 50,
"imp_coalpower": 0,


would be good when important a build the infra you put at the time would indeed buy infra needed in all cities.

I Do believe that's the point, it gives small nations a greater chance of growing quicker, as someone like Sphinx won't need to buy ten credits ever he makes enough to simply buy them off the market if he ever needed too, where small nations can then make a greater leap forward.

This is basically a bomb versus everyone has who less than 1 bn in net worth and isn't going to donate their way there.

 

Look, the point of comparison is the game system before credits were moved from $10mn direct redemption to $15mn direct redemption. Then, you could direct redeem credits for a loss of about 33-50% of their direct/market value to bypass blockades, and if it was worth it, you'd do it.

 

Now, especially with food prices being what they are, credits are being used as a market stabilizing device which at the same time gives donors way too much in-game power.

 

I have personally abused the pay-to-win aspect of the game. I am fine with it because it was only possible in the 1-10 city sphere, which some players have noted to me is of "great strategic interest" (sarcastic). Now, at present prices, you can buy your way to an instant mid-tier alliance provided you have the aperture for donations needed.

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2 hours ago, Inst said:

This is basically a bomb versus everyone has who less than 1 bn in net worth and isn't going to donate their way there.

 

Look, the point of comparison is the game system before credits were moved from $10mn direct redemption to $15mn direct redemption. Then, you could direct redeem credits for a loss of about 33-50% of their direct/market value to bypass blockades, and if it was worth it, you'd do it.

 

Now, especially with food prices being what they are, credits are being used as a market stabilizing device which at the same time gives donors way too much in-game power.

 

I have personally abused the pay-to-win aspect of the game. I am fine with it because it was only possible in the 1-10 city sphere, which some players have noted to me is of "great strategic interest" (sarcastic). Now, at present prices, you can buy your way to an instant mid-tier alliance provided you have the aperture for donations needed.

Well I do partly agree with the fact credits are too much right now, I don't agree with what you're saying. My issue is Alex has now sent a benchmark on what resources should cost, food has already dropped by 34 ppu from 301 to 267 within hours of this update, As people will now buy credits and buy the food to sell, I know the credits right now are 44m each that's due to some people buying all the credits up as 100k food last night was worth 30m and credits was selling for about 17m to 19m that's a no brainer easy flip.



 

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I think former peak credit prices at 27.5 million was fair. What's effectively being done is that credits are becoming progressively more important to the game economy, to the detriment of other resource producers, traders, and other economic actors.

 

I mean, what? With the ridiculously credit-inflated prices, should I just dump a couple of thousand on NPO so they can start making 80bn extra a month on top of their existing estimated 60bn?

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6 hours ago, Alex said:

Hello everyone! A few changes to announce:

Credit Redemption for Resources Change

I've changed the credit resource redemption option. Previously, you could exchange 1 Credit for 2,000 Gasoline, Munitions, Steel, or Aluminum. I've updated this option to include all resources, and updated the quantities to be worth ~$15,000,000 in-game to match the Credit-for-cash option. I understand that right now there is an ongoing war and prices are inflated a bit; I did take that into account when coming up with my numbers.

The option is available on the Donate page (or direct link). Here is a list of the resources & quantites you can receive for 1 Credit. (Note: redeeming Credits for resources counts against your 10 Credit per month redemption limit.)

image.png

 

These are ridiculously high values. Has there been any consideration about how will this affect the rest of the game before implementing it? If you have credits, it basically makes blockades obsolete, hell you might as well go ahead and delete ships from the war system.

As for the infrastructure/land change, I applaud it.

Edited by Theodosius
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Coal prices roughly redeem to 20 million in pre-war values, even with NR depressing the prices. Steel redeems currently to 24,000 in prices.

 

The prices should not be normed to 15 million, they should be normed to 10 million at most. The expected utility of goods that a buyer obtains is always higher than the cash value, otherwise the buyer would not buy it.


Moreover, upping the steel / alum redemption by such drastic amounts (+275%) is making credit prices ridiculous. When I posted a suggestion for a ramp-up in resource redemption, I was only asking for the steel / alum redemption to be brought in line with the direct conversion renorming for credits. That would only translate to 3000 steel or 3000 aluminum; enough for an emergency purchase, but not for rampant market speculation. Even 3500 is acceptably low, but 7500?

Edited by Inst

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Thank you alex, buying credits for Vip with in-game cash was too cheap for me, 40m is much better than 8

Just joking, you are trash

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5 hours ago, Theodosius said:

These are ridiculously high values. Has there been any consideration about how will this affect the rest of the game before implementing it? If you have credits, it basically makes blockades obsolete, hell you might as well go ahead and delete ships from the war system.

Would be nice if they made credits only usable on resources when not blockaded. 

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It's obvious Alex is just trying to exploit the global war for extra cash. We finally have something interesting happening economically and that's a scarcity of resources. Instead of letting it play out after the game suffered from an abundance of resources due to an exploit Alex did very little to remedy, he decides to make it pay to win to survive the famine. So much for no pay to win.

 

edit: all those credits chaos has from Nova cheating will finally pay off. Thanks for making it worse. @Alex

Edited by James II

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This should be retracted.

Credits should also be reduced trade-in value.

Really if anything, the thing PW suffers mostly from is no hard resets.

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8 hours ago, James II said:

It's obvious Alex is just trying to exploit the global war for extra cash. We finally have something interesting happening economically and that's a scarcity of resources. Instead of letting it play out after the game suffered from an abundance of resources due to an exploit Alex did very little to remedy, he decides to make it pay to win to survive the famine. So much for no pay to win.

 

edit: all those credits chaos has from Nova cheating will finally pay off. Thanks for making it worse. @Alex

Alex is the exact opposite of starving, unless he's on an all Beluga caviar diet. We've spoken about income estimates in game, and this is just Alex being short-termish and greedy when the game is already quite lucrative.

 

There's no reason to really run the game as a revenue stream when game health (actives count is around 4,500-5,000) is more important.

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17 hours ago, Vladamir Putin said:

Would be nice if they made credits only usable on resources when not blockaded. 

I finally agree with another member of KT, but yeah Credits should not be a way to bypass blockades, you are making it pay to win at that point.

 

22 hours ago, Theodosius said:

These are ridiculously high values. Has there been any consideration about how will this affect the rest of the game before implementing it? If you have credits, it basically makes blockades obsolete, hell you might as well go ahead and delete ships from the war system.

As for the infrastructure/land change, I applaud it.

Well, those amounts are insane more so during a war, food dropped from 301 ppu to 225 within 24 hours of this update, credits were bought up to 40m and I bet tons of people went and bought credits with real money moments after this change also.


@Alex sorry for the ping but I believe you are making a mistake, when I first started I read a post where you said you did not want this game to become pay to win, yet you are doing everything within your power to make it so, before this update food was 301 ppu as it should be as nukes are flying but the second you did this crazy update NOT a single person needs to grow food, FARMS are now dead, even after the war when things get to normal food will never become most costly than credits, same as other resources. just over a year ago I would buy credits, get steel then sell the steel for more than I could sell the credit, you have just flooded the market with this update.

What's next for 1 credit you can buy max planes in a single buy?.

quick Edit before this war my nation with 25 cities and 3k infra was using about 15k food a day, with this update 4 credits would be enough to feed my nation for the month with extra, what will credits be worth 20m each after this settle down, so 80m for 400k food might as well delete those farms

Edited by Elijah Mikaelson
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7 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

I finally agree with another member of KT, but yeah Credits should not be a way to bypass blockades, you are making it pay to win at that point.

 

Well, those amounts are insane more so during a war, food dropped from 301 ppu to 225 within 24 hours of this update, credits were bought up to 40m and I bet tons of people went and bought credits with real money moments after this change also.


@Alex sorry for the ping but I believe you are making a mistake, when I first started I read a post where you said you did not want this game to become pay to win, yet you are doing everything within your power to make it so, before this update food was 301 ppu as it should be as nukes are flying but the second you did this crazy update NOT a single person needs to grow food, FARMS are now dead, even after the war when things get to normal food will never become most costly than credits, same as other resources. just over a year ago I would buy credits, get steel then sell the steel for more than I could sell the credit, you have just flooded the market with this update.

What's next for 1 credit you can buy max planes in a single buy?.

quick Edit before this war my nation with 25 cities and 3k infra was using about 15k food a day, with this update 4 credits would be enough to feed my nation for the month with extra, what will credits be worth 20m each after this settle down, so 80m for 400k food might as well delete those farms

Credits have always been a way to bypass blockades, but only for low-tier "noob" nations. Credit warfare is supposed to be effective in the zero tier, but when you get past that (where the majority of the game's population lives), skill is supposed to be more important. To date, I've seen KERCHTOG cease to use ships as a result of the credit change.

 

Scaling credits properly to around 3000 military resource units is a valid choice. Currently, credit redemption for military resources has spiked their base price to about 21,000,000, which is the same as a steel buy via credits. Resource redemption for credits, since credits can bypass blockades, is not supposed to be more cost efficient than direct conversion at $15,000,000.


Before the credit realignment from 10mn to 15mn, the peak market credit price was approximately 18mn. With the credit realignment, the peak market price rose to about 28mn. With a further increase in the credit price floor to 21mn, peak market prices may reach 40 mn next month.

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The motivation behind the resource redemption rate change, and opening it up to all resources, was simply to bring things in line with the Credits for cash redemption rates, which has been requested to me by multiple players for a long time.

To be honest, I didn't expect so many people to use Credits for resources as a result of the change. I have now reduced the amounts to be closer in line to approx $10m in value. See the new list of quantities here:

image.png

Also, there was a minor bug where some players were able to redeem more than 10 Credits for the month. I was able to quickly identify the 7 players who did this (most of them only redeeming 1 more Credit than 10) and resolve the situation by removing as much of the resources/money earned from selling them as possible, and updating their future redemption limits such that they are not getting any sort of pay-to-win advantage from the bug.

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The quantities are still too high for my taste; 1 credit can cover a tank buy for a 20 city nation, and 5 air buys for a 20 city nation. But thank you for compromising and revising the values down, even though I still feel they're not enough.

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On 6/29/2019 at 8:22 PM, Valdoroth said:

Really if anything, the thing PW suffers mostly from is no hard resets.

We've already had one hard reset. IIRC, retention wasn't that great after.

19 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

I finally agree with another member of KT

Hey, we agreed in the infra buy to x thread. How could you forget me, especially when we're fighting each other? 

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2 hours ago, WISD0MTREE said:

Hey, we agreed in the infra buy to x thread. How could you forget me, especially when we're fighting each other? 

I did not forget, just making sure you are still awake :)

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