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Declaration of War


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Just now, Frawley said:

This is kinda the thing that makes no sense.  Apparently we unfairly think that people are out to get us, but its only NPO when it goes to war that is accused of 'literally killing the game'

This war, no matter the outcome won't make a dot of different on the long term outlook for P&W.  What will make a difference is proper moderation, active administration, advertising to new players and a mobile application.  The fact is, the absolute hate that we are generating right now is bloody good for games like this as it gives people a reason to hold grudges, build coalitions and plan long term.

3

Its only NPO in this specific war.

And you 100% unfairly think people are out to get you.

Again, victimhood.

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1 hour ago, Abbas Mehdi said:

What you guys are doing in this unilateral course of action cause of a cb of tkr plotting against IQ is win good faith and assurances in a coalition of low tier alliances in a losing fight so you have that insurance policy cause you do not even have enough trust in your current allies to defend you or aid you if tkr ever pursued a war against you. You wanted to roll tkr dude, could have done it post war too, no one was stopping you whatsoever, you don't even need a cb for that, its not like tkr has had the best FA rep in the past 2 years. The reason the tkr attack is now is just to keep face. In fact you were more likely to get a win against tkr post war then you are now.

I'll actually deal with this, since its the operative portions of your argument Abbas. The TKR wanting to roll IQ logs is not the key to our entrance, but something that made things interesting. The key portion to our entrance is 

a) The logs of present Chaos gov confirming indeed they were planning to roll N$O. 

b) Enough intelligence from folks who've told us whats been told to them. My biggest regret was not having them screencap atm and share it, and that is something I'll learn from this I guess. 

I'm not even bothered whether I hit TKR or KETOG or BK or whomsoever plans to rolls us and we have that information. That is where our decision lies. 

1 hour ago, Abbas Mehdi said:

Now I know the cynicism of some in NPO and they might say tkr will generate a lot of influence post war and will be unrollable so rolling now is best, well its not like you are rolling tkr now either. Your entry into this war has 0 affect on tkr's viability or even tkr's war performance. All you did was actually made their damaged rep seem better than whatever this entry into the war is. This entry has 0 impact on the wider conflict except show some sort of camaraderie of being in the same trenches as your former low tier allies. You wanted to roll tkr as revenge for that IQ cb, well trust your own current allies to plot with you to do that, if you are in a losing spot then might as well lose with your allies than this gang of sphinx enablers.

That is something we'll see a few weeks down the road anyway. Always fun to be on the losing side, given post war if we did hit either bloc, we'd be blamed for being opportunistic and supremacy arguments will rain galore. I mean our call to hit Chaos now was not made in haste, nor was it an easy choice given the stakes involved. It was done because we did believe there was a credible threat of being rolled piecemeal and we'd prefer to be out in front of it. 

 

47 minutes ago, Lordship said:

The most insane contention is that somehow this entire war is an elaborate plan to take down NPO. 

Only a pathologically victimhood mentality alliance would believe this. But the thing is, they don't actually believe this; they simply wanted to hit us. 

How they have somehow made this war about them; a war that began with a fight between KETOGG and Chaos, and ultimately ended with KETOGG + Chaos fighting BK and friends (a position we were FORCED into because of the leaked logs detailing their plan to hit us as soon as we rebuilt) is very clear evidence of their not only massive hate boner for TKR but also their intentions of choking out the rest of the game.

Which leaves us in only one scenario: If every war is a war in which NPO somehow conceives of it being a plan to roll them, and then use this + hidden logs which can be literally anyone + "a trusted source" to hit TKR whenever they get the chance, we must fight for our survival and we are back to where we were 2 years ago.

The minisphere idea, which I remind everyone first became very prominent after NPO !@#$ed and moaned about how the game isn't dynamic enough and its the same old wars, has been shown to be untenable. Some progress was made towards this goal of a multi-sphere environment with contained wars, with KT/TGH leading by example, followed by the formation of Chaos post Knightfall. The problem is that the other half of the game is not playing by these arbitrary rules which we have imposed on each other despite being the ones who pushed hardest for the change of the metagame.

And everything came together when NPO tried to kill the game this weekend by blitzing us. It is their riskiest move yet because they absolutely have to win this to gain control. This is the culmination of their 3 years victim narrative, this war right now where they see the opportunity to secure the top once and for all by knocking the rest of us out quite a few pegs.

So we will fight. For the sake of the game, for the sake of our alliances.

Lol. I wish TKR did indeed have such a place of importance in our alliance that we want to roll you on a daily basis. I mean there's no love lost, and our feelings on one another are clear, but the last time I pushed a war on TKR was in October and since then haven't really bothered. Would you be a threat sometime down the road, probably, but would we still hate each other? I really don't know. This war isn't a result of some set of grudges, just a result of what we received, and what we knew when we made the decision. Back to where you were 2 years ago? Running the largest hegemony the game has seen I imagine? Fun fun, looking forward to it. 

Good projection there, we haven't whined about the lack of dynamism in the game, just pointed out how EMC was a chokehold until IQ was formed. Given that we had fought what two back to back curbstomps and alliances decided to skip town and sign up with EMC, we pointed that one out. When EMC first split, it was called out to be fake, and later confirmed by your own government, when trying to work out a deal with us, so I mean it isn't victimhood, as much as calling a spade a spade. 

We played just fine with the minisphere rules. Regardless got called out for it, is what it is. Respectable to believe IQ hasn't split but the arguments were silly given it revolved around a damned ODoAP. When Sphinx's logs released, we were as surprised as anyone else in tS/HS since well like I stated earlier, I haven't had a conversation with tC over any specific war, since N$O had its own thing planned.

I love your rhetoric of trying to kill the game, and I have zero interest that. Good call to arms boi, but I have zero interest in being on the top, or staying there because well its not the vision I have for the NPO or we have as a community at large. What you and your alliance are doing though is quite interesting. 

We'll continue the good fight, as you say, for the game and the sake of our alliances, given how the only ones to call for our disbandment come from your side of the war, and your wonderful government members calling us cancer lol. 

Edited by Shadowthrone
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5 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Snip

 

Yes yes, we've heard your woe is me tale many times bud. You're not convincing anyone anymore.

First, they came for Guardian/Grumpy under the pretense of "keeping them within damage range".

Then they hit us under the "well you were gonna hit us anyway" excuse.

Your get out of jail free cards have run out. 

Edited by Lordship
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Just now, Lordship said:

Yes yes, we've heard your woe is me tale many times bud. You're not convincing anyone anymore.

I have no idea where there's victimhood anywhere there, but I guess I take that lack of response as umm, you have nothing? Fair enough. 

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Just now, Shadowthrone said:

I have no idea where there's victimhood anywhere there, but I guess I take that lack of response as umm, you have nothing? Fair enough. 

" Good projection there, we haven't whined about the lack of dynamism in the game "

" We played just fine with the minisphere rules "

" I love your rhetoric of trying to kill the game, and I have zero interest that. "

" What you and your alliance are doing though is quite interesting.  "

Who are you still trying to fool?

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1 hour ago, Kevanovia said:

I am surprised that the parody interview Charlie made is getting so much heat. The audio is from a clip where Roq was getting interviewed by a guy that was being an !@#$ to him, so Roq got defensive. Charlie used the audio and inserted his own questions about the recent ‘IQ-revival’ situation. I know Charlie and he wouldn’t do anything to attack someone OOC. OOC Roq is one of the sweetest people in the game, if he felt like this was a OOC attack, then I have no doubt Charlie will take it down. It was meant to be a parody for propaganda on the war. It wasn’t supposed to be taken as an actual interview as it was so blatantly fake.

 

Also, Dio - you were one of those “ !@#$” that originally upvoted it. It appears you changed your tune when your coalition decided to use the fake interview as a political high horse to ride on. It’s hard for me to even know if some of you are even being genuine in your “ZOMG OOC ATTACK!” because of how this thread played out and the initial reactions. To me it almost looks like a narrative you are trying to push even tho you know it’s fake. If that is the case, then shame on you because you’re trying to paint a picture that Charlie is some !@#$ that attacks people OOC, which in of itself is a borderline OOC attack trying to give a negative persona about the person behind the keyboard.

image0.png

 

I did speak to Charlie about this and explain why there's heat regarding this audio clipping @Kevanovia. I was disappointed that Charlie decided to use it, and explained it to him why and cleared it out with him as to why exactly folks reacted strongly to it. If you do want to know the story, feel free to DM or catch it on the generational divide this friday night ;) 

2 minutes ago, Lordship said:

" Good projection there, we haven't whined about the lack of dynamism in the game "

" We played just fine with the minisphere rules "

" I love your rhetoric of trying to kill the game, and I have zero interest that. "

" What you and your alliance are doing though is quite interesting.  "

Who are you still trying to fool?

Yes only TKR are allowed to deal with threats and enforce terms including cancellation of treaties, while the NPO dealing with their threats is killing the game. Got it. Nice try. 

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15 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

I'll actually deal with this, since its the operative portions of your argument Abbas. The TKR wanting to roll IQ logs is not the key to our entrance, but something that made things interesting. The key portion to our entrance is 

a) The logs of present Chaos gov confirming indeed they were planning to roll N$O. 

b) Enough intelligence from folks who've told us whats been told to them. My biggest regret was not having them screencap atm and share it, and that is something I'll learn from this I guess. 

I'm not even bothered whether I hit TKR or KETOG or BK or whomsoever plans to rolls us and we have that information. That is where our decision lies. 

That is something we'll see a few weeks down the road anyway. Always fun to be on the losing side, given post war if we did hit either bloc, we'd be blamed for being opportunistic and supremacy arguments will rain galore. I mean our call to hit Chaos now was not made in haste, nor was it an easy choice given the stakes involved. It was done because we did believe there was a credible threat of being rolled piecemeal and we'd prefer to be out in front of it.

Do you believe the logs and evidence you have against Chaos government against N$O are sufficient enough for you to unilaterally get involved in the fight against tcw and its allies that are being attacked by multiple parties with various different priorities?

The other question is have you presented or narrated the evidence you have to rest of N$O sphere? If so then why didn't you wait till the end of this war to pursue that as a united sphere action?

 

I am not a member of Guardian p&w

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28 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh look someone trying to appease their circle jerk.

Oh good I knew I wouldn't have to wait long to trot this one out.

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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Quite a few people seem to be missing the point here, at least partly.

 

Yes, The Inquisition dissolved. Whether you think this was prudent, well-executed, or clearly communicated is up to you. There are more than a few fair critiques of the way it happened.

Yes, the logs Dio posted were (mostly) several months old. However, their significance is apparent if taken in context. The parties in question in the various logs about assembling a coalition to roll IQ are, by and large, the same people who’ve repeatedly said IQ didn’t disband. In other words, if, in their minds, IQ became secret-IQ, there would be no reason not to continue looking for an opening to hit “IQ”.

NPO was generally aware of this. It wasn’t hard to be, of course. When a substantial number of people spend most of their breath and IC posts insinuating you haven’t told the truth or haven’t sufficiently adhered to the rules they’ve laid out for acceptable gameplay, a degree of suspicion is warranted.

However, despite this wariness, NPO largely acted according to the stipulations of “minispheres”. We consented to dissolving IQ and broke off MD-level ties with the remainder of BK-sphere. We also didn’t sign on to the coalition against Chaos and KETOG proposed in Sphinx’s leaked log (the first one), whatever Sphinx’s hopes or intentions for N$O were.

Most of the disagreements about the veracity of the split or the separateness of BK-sphere and N$O were, to be frank, fairly silly. I can’t recall how many times, for instance, someone seriously put forth the argument that an ODoAP between NPO and Polaris meant that the two groups – N$O and BK-sphere – were really one monolithic entity. Certainly up until the start of the current war, the critiques of “IQ” mostly amounted to disagreements over aesthetics (“Too many” treaties, never mind what’s actually written in them, seem to offend some people’s sense of aesthetics) or a demand to forget years of IC interaction (I’ve never quite figured out why it was so outrageous that BK and NPO didn’t hate each other after the split, given everything we’d been through together).

Which brings us to the present. Whatever the relations between KETOG and Chaos prior to and during their war with one another, they were well within their rights and the boundaries of prudence to call it off and team up to hit BK-sphere. When someone signals their intention to harm you, publicly or not, it is your prerogative to respond accordingly. Similarly, it is anyone’s prerogative to advance their vision of a better world. This was one of the intentions of the many people who agitated for minispheres. It was also the intention of The Syndicate in its war against GOB and Guardian, a war to which NPO gave its support.

But, like the nascent minispheres built after Knightfall, the wars of the past month didn’t happen in a vacuum. The antipathy towards NPO and “IQ” didn’t simply evaporate in the face of a new war. As the most recent of Dio’s logs reveals, Chaos-KETOG strongly considered hitting N$O and only refrained because they felt they lacked the strength to do so successfully. Whether they toyed with the idea because it was the opening many of them had waited for or because they believed N$O was complicit in forming a hostile coalition with BK-sphere, I don’t know. But the intention – unacted upon as it was – remained and was sufficiently substantiated in NPO’s eyes over the following days to demand action on our part.

Unfortunately, the timing of these developments and of the decision they informed was poor. NPO had committed to t$’s action against GOB and Guardian, including the stipulation that we wouldn’t expand the war. We held to that promise insofar as it pertained to our role as a t$ affiliate. But we are not only a t$ affiliate - just as we don’t dictate the terms of t$’s policies, they do not dictate the terms of ours.

 

It should be apparent by now that NPO has deemed action more important than PR points with the peanut gallery. That’s ok. We’ve spent too long playing by the rules of someone else’s game, and I doubt that game’s self-appointed referees would ever have decided we were playing by them anyway.

Edited by Edward I
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47 minutes ago, Lordship said:

And then they trot out the idiots of their alliance to help distract from the fact that they are currently attempting to gain total supremacy.

All of this is intentional, pay attention folks. 

I like how you guys act like playing to win is a bad thing.

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4 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

I like how you guys act like playing to win is a bad thing.

Hey only TKR's allowed to play to win. Anyone else who plays differently is a threat to their game ?‍♀️

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5 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

Yep, that's why they are so offended by competence and want to set up arbitrary rules for their own benefit. 

I like how you guys are quoting each other while accusing other people of having a circlejerk hahahahaha

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

Hey only TKR's allowed to play to win. Anyone else who plays differently is a threat to their game ?‍♀️

So NPO admits they are playing to win then. Glad we are on the same page. How is that hegemony coming along?

I see NPO is tiering heavily at 20 cities. TGH is at 20 cities. This must be NPO out to get us. This is clearly a threat. An ironclad CB if I've ever heard one.

Am I doing it right?

3 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

Yep, that's why they are so offended by competence and want to set up arbitrary rules for their own benefit. 

Its not competence since you tried to take over the game but failed miserably. 

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8 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

Yep, that's why they are so offended by competence and want to set up arbitrary rules for their own benefit. 

So competent that your PR is shot to hell and you're still losing despite having most the game. Gotcha.

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2 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

NPO, you guys aren't the only ones blamed for "killing the game"  Grumpy gets accused of it too! (we should ally and be friends! destroy the game together!)

I mean hell you guys assembled 75 percent of the game 6-8 months ago just to take out our little corner of the world.

Then just 4-5 days ago, your sphere claimed Grumpy and Guardian were a threat to you, and you attacked us while we were in the middle of a war.  There were no logs, no real CB, but Grumpy wasn't in the OWF crying victim (we had NSO nations to burn! MUHAHAHAHA)  That went probably not as you expected, because we were happy to take one for the team (that and we were winning), to allow the rest of our coalition to continue to put pressure on BK and friends.  In that 35 page thread I believe it was stated we are a threat to you in perpetuity due to our nation size.  Then you guys jumped in full force, breaking the terms of combat your sphere set.  

Going thru the list of actions from your side over the last week, I see alot of one sided aggression towards me and mine.  Then you go break your own terms of engagement, so can you blame us if we think NPO has a credibility problem?

 

As for how i view this entire war over the last month, we started a war with chaos, and pretty much from the first few days it kicked off, we started hearing about how BK and friends wanted to join in, and from what I understand we said this is our war stay out.  then the NR shenanigans happened, and did anyone notice how quickly BK jumped on that?  It's almost like they were ready and wanting to go to war, I feel like that gets overlooked.  Due to the near daily rumors we were hearing about BK jumping into our war, yes we spoke with Choas leadership and basically agreed if BK butted into our war, we would peace out and attack them, no matter what side they joined.  Then we get actual proof that they are planning to hit us? Straw meet camels back, and ya broke it.   As for why we asked Rose to join us, I dont know if you noticed, but BK has like 1000+ nations in their sphere, the 3 mini spheres combined cant match those numbers.  Can someone post those sweet barcharts you guys post in our coalition channel. Those are the best.

To be honest, I thought we were going to lose, Chaos was at half strength, we really fubar'ed each others spies, you guys had numerical superiority, and were fresh and waiting, and a large part of our side doesn't really match up well with your side (aka CoS, Guardian, Grumpy)  End of the day this entire war is on you guys (NPO and BK), you played yourselves into this thing.  Will you end up pulling it out? It's possible, will we end up with another stalemate somewhere around 1.5k-3k ns? probably more likely.

 

End of the day, I cant wait for this thing to end so I can go back to not having to talk to anybody.

This is pretty much bang on. It's pretty comical you now have SRD and I agreeing. We've managed to whack each other around a few times now without anyone seeming to develop a nonsense victim narrative, actually. All you guys had to do was sit there and let us mess each other up, and you couldn't pull that off.

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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2 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

So NPO admits they are playing to win then. Glad we are on the same page. How is that hegemony coming along?

I see NPO is tiering heavily at 20 cities. TGH is at 20 cities. This must be NPO out to get us. This is clearly a threat. An ironclad CB if I've ever heard one.

Am I doing it right?

Its not competence since you tried to take over the game but failed miserably. 

Not what I said bud ? I said plays differently :P 

 

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2 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

So competent that your PR is shot to hell and you're still losing despite having most the game. Gotcha.

Who cares about PR from people who hate them? People always team up to attack those that are most threatening to their own success. Its happened for over a decade in CN, and its the same story here. 

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22 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

I like how you guys act like playing to win is a bad thing.

NPO: Everyone is out to get us, we're just trying to do our own thing and were respecting the multi-sphere world.

Chaos/KETOG: presents evidence NPO is, in fact, re-consolidating and nakedly attempting to establish political dominance

NPO: lol don't hate us for playing to win!

It's just like the BK people who stomp their feet about how they totally aren't consolidating a gigantic blob to roll smaller spheres, and then when they get clearly called out on it, fall back on 'its strategy, shoulda signed more treaties brah!'

And you know what? Maybe it is! Maybe NPO and BK are just playing to win with a plan they think will work. Fine! Some people think its kind of a shitty strategy, some don't, but at least if you were honest about it from the start people wouldn't have nearly as much issue with you. The reason nobody trusts you and never has is because of all the deflection and lies that get trotted and recycled at every step. Are you pissed that everyone was shitting on you on the forums? Feel like its a 'talk shit get hit situation?' Great! Be honest about it and people might !@#$ about your actions, but at least would be able to trust you and work with you in the future. If you ever wonder why it might be difficult finding people to listen to you on the other side of the isle, its because nobody can ever trust what is coming out of your mouths. 

 

 

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Archduke Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden, Lord Paramount of the Reach, Warden of the South, Breaker of Forums.

 

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2 minutes ago, Commander Thrawn said:

Who cares about PR from people who hate them? People always team up to attack those that are most threatening to their own success. Its happened for over a decade in CN, and its the same story here. 

This is my problem with how the world works right now.  War used to be a prime opportunity to go and scout out enemy alliances to see who could be potential future allies. Today's enemy is tomorrow's ally.  Everyone now is so toxic and mean to each other, why would anyone ever want to team up with their enemies?  FYI, this isn't just directed at NPO and BK, our side is just as guilty of it.

 

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14 hours ago, Dane Hunter said:

You are aware that Chaos & Ketog are comprised of alliances that fought each other last global right? Hardly 'still united'. In fact if I do recall, some of us fought on your side. But please, continue with your logic gymnastics.

You are aware that BK Sphere & N$O are comprised of alliances that fought each other last global too right? Hardly 'still IQ'. In fact if I do recall, some of us fought on your side against them. But please, continue with your 'IQ still exists' gymnastics.

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