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Sisyphus

We are here for the Whales

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9 hours ago, Epi said:

NPO is racing you guys now tho, in 24 hours they've reached 14 pages. Roughly 40% of this.

Clearly someone paid off Alex to remove the thread competition. This thread will now be uncontested!

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4 hours ago, ForgotPants said:

Clearly someone paid off Alex to remove the thread competition. This thread will now be uncontested!

We are corrupt corporate capitalist themed after all...

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On 6/23/2019 at 9:17 AM, Chief Wiggum said:

Mutliple violations of the forum rules have been reported in this thread. I ask you all to avoid personal attacks (especially OOC ones) and stop posting out of topic content.

The thread will remain open, but future violations will [insert abstract and menacing threat here].

Peace.

fqYXwFc.png

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I didn’t even report a single moment, lol.

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On 6/19/2019 at 4:07 PM, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

aww_did_somebody_get_addicted_to_crack.j

Nope.  Did you severely underestimate the PR impact crying to daddy roq would have?

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1 minute ago, Rosey Song said:

Nope.  Did you severely underestimate the PR impact crying to daddy roq would have?

You keep saying PR like anyone cares what OWF says. Congrats you guys have made a full circle jerk. OWF =/= Orbis.

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9 minutes ago, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

You keep saying PR like anyone cares what OWF says. Congrats you guys have made a full circle jerk. OWF =/= Orbis.

Lol, if you think he is only talking about the forums. You're in for a rude shock.

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1 minute ago, Keegoz said:

Lol, if you think he is only talking about the forums. You're in for a rude shock.

Because you've threatened some micros? Isn't the chief complaint theres too many of us? That seems the opposite of no one liking us.

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Just now, Aragorn, son of Arathorn said:

Because you've threatened some micros? Isn't the chief complaint theres too many of us? That seems the opposite of no one liking us.

We'll see :)

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Well i'm glad I just spent an hour catching up on this dumpster fire of a thread (/s). The only person that said anything with a shred of common sense was Ivk when he said that each side is going to have their preconceptions and that's it's useless trying to change each others mind. Going to go lie down in a dark and quiet room now... 

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I just want to clarify something. This document was nebulous at best and changed several times to fit changing definitions and the final wording wasn't known before going up. Several of the alliances entered without ever explicitly saying they would not expand. I only tacitly went along with it but never made any promises to adhere unconditionally.  It was clear from the get-go that it was a poisoned chalice and there are enough precedents to see it. Ultimately, they are tS's rules of engagement and they are not something I would have ever posted. No alliance is suzerain over ours. It's possible you got individual assurances and feel burned but it was never a promise I made to the other set of alliances, which makes it more dubious than the one TEst made with Pantheon. I'm glad for tS that they were able to extricate themselves if they felt put on the hook for it, as that's what was their main concern and they got a PR bonanza out of it too. Ultimately, knowing what I do now I would not have wasted the days I did arguing instead of hitting at a better time if I could go back, however.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Further confirming our suspicions.

What suspicions? The evidence we had had been there and we were presenting the case as the gameplan was playing out. Attempting to find  compromise solutions to the issue that would solve our security concerns about Chaos was a waste of my time. It's just I can't sit idly by when someone's "locking down BK" and when I'm told they fully intend to swing Chaos in my direction once that happens. That's beyond dumb.  I'm also not sure why you're saying this when you literally were implying you weren't playing by Wilhelm's rules with catty lines like "sure if that's what you want to believe". There's just no point in trying to reach compromises when someone is planning to extricate themselves anyway.

Edited by Roquentin
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So according to your logic here, we should’ve ignored your “We didn’t know of the plot” and just included NPO into our blitz too?

You sure you want to argue this out?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

So according to your logic here, we should’ve ignored your “We didn’t know of the plot” and just included NPO into our blitz too?

You sure you want to argue this out?

I'll explain. The context is we're judged guilty of it anyway and it's a second "trial" to make it easier than fighting both at once. So if we're getting it swung on us anyway, I'm not going to wait to get hit. In contrast, we can't beat your entire coalition on our own and the only way we would have had an easy path was to enter on day one but as we weren't part of the other coalition, we didn't.  Tactically, it would have made more sense to hit KT and some others instead as those were the requests I had turned down as soon as the war started, but there was no evidence to indicate KT involvement in the plot.

So if instead of 

"Don't do it you'll tank tS's PR forever."

they say 

"Well,  we'll just pull out anyway"

Then I don't need to waste time caring about it.

 

Edited by Roquentin
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Let me stop you right here, no, you weren’t.  You (and Syndicate) had a chance to prove all your critics and doubters wrong.

You both failed at it.  Possibly from apathy or possibly from the fact that critics, like myself, were right from the beginning.  Who knows.

The only difference is that Syndicate sort of saved face by honoring the word they gave and stopping once their ally (You) no longer honored it.

All you showed is that you’re more aligned with BK than giving it a shot with Syndicate and House Stark.  Going so far to use logs that pre-dated IQ’s supposed disbanding to justify your hit.

The ONLY group that may have possibly came after NPO (And Syndicate) would be KETOG due to the opportunistic hit on Guardian/Grumpy.

Instead, you folks are literally pulling exactly what you’ve criticized TKR (and others) for over the past year.

I can guarantee you that many of the leaders on the other side of the web here were willing to give you a chance.  The only alliance that many doubted (and rightfully so) was BK.  It wasn’t NPO, GoG, UPN, or whoever else.

Had any of you actually got over your paranoia and explored out, you’d see there would be some interests out there.  And you, of all leaders over there, should know this.

I don't agree entirely, hippo man.

 

It seems to me as if t$ made a judgement error in believing NPO to be more aligned to it than it was. t$' war on GOB counted on that premise, hence why the word was given. The hit on GOB carried a calculated political and physical cost to t$. You not liking that war was included in that calculation from where i'm sitting. 

Objectively speaking though, the timing and scope of t$' intervention can not be called a direct assist to BK. It does not help the broader war effort, and is a fairly equal fight. If anything, it directly follows the minisphere doctrine (i'll call it that, even if I find it a dumb doctrine) by starting an arguably uphill fight on a front that is isolated from the rest of the world. Your broader peanut war is just the background setting.

Things played out differently due to the error in judgement we've all witnessed, and upon realizing that, t$ immediately moved to correct that and pulled out. They can be accused of opportunism and of aggression, but that is all. And I think opportunism and aggression in itself are an entirely different issue from the matters in which you claim "t$ had a chance to prove doubters wrong".

 

Let's keep matters clear and seperate here.

Edited by Prefonteen
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Not quite sure what you disagreed with.  Either you missed the point, or I was bad at clarifying it.

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Just now, Buorhann said:

Not quite sure what you disagreed with.  Either you missed the point, or I was bad at clarifying it.

The latter.

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It could be argued that t$ were actually harming BK's war effort by knocking the whales further down the score count putting them in to range for more of BK-sphere's targets. Anyone assuming that t$ was doing more than being opportunistic really wasn't looking at the bigger picture.

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I mean, if the whales wanted to dive bomb, they could always sell down themselves. That said, I do agree that t$ ultimately proved through their actions that while they were taking advantage of the war to catch the whales alone, they were honestly trying to sway the BK war as little as possible. 

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