We are here for the Whales

[Roquentin]

3 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaa, hahahahaha, hahahahaaa! Haha! Alright, fine, sounds good, and all of that is 100% a perfect reason for N$O to sit OUT of the war. But no, you JOINED the war, doing EXACTLY what you literally are now saying you weren't and aren't doing.

And sure thing, go ahead and hit the tier that you've been so loudly whining about being hegemonic, insurmountable, terrible, game-breaking, and say that it isn't a direct effort to assist BK. I'll laugh continuously at you for literal days.

The point is to make sure no one can be too high to war and lose infra. If you buy the high infra, it should be at your own risk. A lot of people who bought too much lost out on it when they weren't heavily guarded. One  reason for the disproportionate gap is it becomes economical to buy copious amounts infra if you can count on not fighting for more than around so the longer you do it, the more it benefits you. Someone attempted to emulate the 3000 infra model in the Citadel bloc and you can see how that's working out for them. When some people are staying at 2k infra and others are packing on a lot more, there's simply more cash creation proportionally. There are a lot of other things as well, but the return to the pattern  of the whales getting wars off basically and being in one sphere again was an unwelcome one. Virtually every super tier nation that helped the non-GOB/TKR/Guardian side in Knightfall was either on good terms or in a friendly alliance that had little inclination to fight them again. We could probably except someone like CoS. If the point of Knightfall was simply to have whales fight whales one time and never again, it would have been a pointless war.  When we saw that the KETOGsphere offered an opportunity for people to get high amounts of infra in the super tier risk-free by being protection in essence, it was seen as unfortunate.

[Lossi]

6 minutes ago, Edward I said:

Lastly, the attack on GOB and Guardian had nothing to do with "honesty and integrity". No one in N$O made any promises to anyone in KETOG that KETOG nations were off-limits to N$O aggression.  It does not, as the OP of this thread clearly stated, have anything to do with defending BK. This is not a defensive action; it is an opportunistic act of aggression.  And, as the OP clearly states, The Syndicate has no intention to expand the war to aid BK-sphere in, you know, the tiers its war with Chaos/KETOG/Rose is actually being fought. (If you don't believe me on this one, check GOB and Guardian's wars. Last I looked they weren't fighting a single war with anyone outside N$O, so the claim that hitting them directly helps BK is pretty weak.)

I mean, first I have no clue what you're going on about.  Guardian and GoB has been fighting BK-Sphere this whole time.  We're #2 and #3 in damage for this war, with most of us being involved in 3-5 offensives each by the time t$ hit, so your logic instantly fell apart here.  Second, I feel like your understanding of war seems, flawed, at best.  BK is desperate.  Why is BK desperate?  Because Guardian and GoB have been ramping into them every front they succeed in.  Solution?  $yndicate tries to take them out of the fight for BK.  If you can't see that, you're a.) Blind, or b.) ignorantly sheepling for your side, neither proves suprising.

[Lossi]

21 minutes ago, Frawley said:

If this were true, I'd be finishing my first round against KERTOG now, because we were fully milled on the day you hit them and would have gone in immediately.

uh-huh, of course.  And that's why when you guys came in, BK and crew had convienently left GoB and Guardian's slots nice and open.  Just you know, in-case **anyone** wanted to hop into the war at some point.  We had maybe 1 or 2 people in Guardian who had received counters all the way down in the mini tier at the very early portion of the fight.  Yeah sound strategy to just let the people tearing into you go uncontested.  More 24D chess from NPO and BK.

[Lu Xun]

Why yes, BK should have attacked Grumpy and Guardian, launching an updeclare when they were being downdeclared on so that all their assets could sit as blockade-chained punching bags.

[Sir Scarfalot]

4 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

The point is to make sure no one can be too high to war and lose infra. If you buy the high infra, it should be at your own risk. A lot of people who bought too much lost out on it when they weren't heavily guarded. One  reason for the disproportionate gap is it becomes economical to buy copious amounts infra if you can count on not fighting for more than around so the longer you do it, the more it benefits you. Someone attempted to emulate the 3000 infra model in the Citadel bloc and you can see how that's working out for them. When some people are staying at 2k infra and others are packing on a lot more, there's simply more cash creation proportionally. There are a lot of other things as well, but the return to the pattern  of the whales getting wars off basically and being in one sphere again was an unwelcome one. Virtually every super tier nation that helped the non-GOB/TKR/Guardian side in Knightfall was either on good terms or in a friendly alliance that had little inclination to fight them again. We could probably except someone like CoS. If the point of Knightfall was simply to have whales fight whales one time and never again, it would have been a pointless war.  When we saw that the KETOGsphere offered an opportunity for people to get high amounts of infra in the super tier risk-free by being protection in essence, it was seen as unfortunate.

Oh, alright then, I look forward to your DoW against Not A Scam Credit Union LLC and their absolutely risk-free, disproportionately powerful economic dominance in the untouchable score range.

But seriously, your defense is completely laughable, in no small part because there's zero chance of anything you say you intend from coming to pass. Grumpy has already spent the billions upon billions to create the cities, which means that their whale status is something you cannot possibly take away no matter how much you'd like to.

Also, if we follow the same line of logic as you posit here, then the point of rolling IQ is to ensure that no-one can be too deeply consolidated in the mid-tier to war and lose infra, and therefore we must simply roll you until you disband. Grumpy won't stop being a "threat" to you by your logic until they disband, so it's only fair and natural for the logic to work the same way around; you will not stop being a "threat" to everyone that isn't NPO or enslaved to NPO until you disband. That's why I say in the other thread that this may well be endgame: You cannot EVER be trusted with peace; you admit to wanting nothing less than complete consolidation and a total, insurmountable victory, and we can't possibly even trust you to drop any of your allies. There can be only disbandment, which means that this war must never end. You don't deserve anything else, that's for sure.

[Guest Frawley]

2 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

uh-huh, of course.  And that's why when you guys came in, BK and crew had convienently left GoB and Guardian's slots nice and open.  Just you know, in-case **anyone** wanted to hop into the war at some point.  We had maybe 1 or 2 people in Guardian who had received counters all the way down in the mini tier at the very early portion of the fight.  Yeah sound strategy to just let the people tearing into you go uncontested.  More 24D chess from NPO and BK.

I agree, shit strategy if we were allied, we would have been much better going in straight away.

[Shadowthrone]

5 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Oh, alright then, I look forward to your DoW against Not A Scam Credit Union LLC and their absolutely risk-free, disproportionately powerful economic dominance in the untouchable score range.

But seriously, your defense is completely laughable, in no small part because there's zero chance of anything you say you intend from coming to pass. Grumpy has already spent the billions upon billions to create the cities, which means that their whale status is something you cannot possibly take away no matter how much you'd like to.

Also, if we follow the same line of logic as you posit here, then the point of rolling IQ is to ensure that no-one can be too deeply consolidated in the mid-tier to war and lose infra, and therefore we must simply roll you until you disband. Grumpy won't stop being a "threat" to you by your logic until they disband, so it's only fair and natural for the logic to work the same way around; you will not stop being a "threat" to everyone that isn't NPO or enslaved to NPO until you disband. That's why I say in the other thread that this may well be endgame: You cannot EVER be trusted with peace; you admit to wanting nothing less than complete consolidation and a total, insurmountable victory, and we can't possibly even trust you to drop any of your allies. There can be only disbandment, which means that this war must never end. You don't deserve anything else, that's for sure.

 

Lol. I do not really want a disbandment of GoB or any alliance tbh. What I would like to see is GoB face the same threats to their infra as everyone else here does. A constant consolidation of all the largest nations in one game, into one or two alliances, while protected from being touched by a strong mid-tier bloc, in essence means, they can grow untouched, while we are the lamb constantly damaging one another at the risk of the game health. If there were enough non-upper tier alliances in existence outside of GoB, its a different argument. At the end of the day, all we want it is the ability for folks to be damaged across all tiers of the game and sign our peaces and move on to the next set of wars. If that somehow makes you want to disband the NPO, so be it. My slots are still open, and I'm fine fighting for our existence. Won't be the first time in this game, and seemingly won't be the last. 

[Lossi]

7 minutes ago, Frawley said:

I agree, shit strategy if we were allied, we would have been much better going in straight away.

Glad we're on the same page here.

[Sir Scarfalot]

8 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Lol. I do not really want a disbandment of GoB or any alliance tbh. What I would like to see is GoB face the same threats to their infra as everyone else here does. A constant consolidation of all the largest nations in one game, into one or two alliances, while protected from being touched by a strong mid-tier bloc, in essence means, they can grow untouched, while we are the lamb constantly damaging one another at the risk of the game health. If there were enough non-upper tier alliances in existence outside of GoB, its a different argument. At the end of the day, all we want it is the ability for folks to be damaged across all tiers of the game and sign our peaces and move on to the next set of wars. If that somehow makes you want to disband the NPO, so be it. My slots are still open, and I'm fine fighting for our existence. Won't be the first time in this game, and seemingly won't be the last. 

Yes, you do indeed want a disbandment of GoB at least, because that's the only way they'll ever face the threats you want them to face. Which, I should point out, they already do, so what you say and what you mean are clearly very deeply separate things. So, since your entire motivation and your entire existence is logically to annihilate your opponents, that means that nothing you can offer outside of your complete disbandment can possibly be acceptable to anyone that isn't your slave.

There can be no 'next set of wars', you've blown that chance when you lied about splitting IQ. You can't ever be trusted with splitting off from your allies ever again, so any assurances you make that you're totally not allied to BK are worth nothing, and you have no choice but to be assumed to be entirely allied to BK regardless of anything and everything. There can only be IQ vs the world, if you really wanted a different set of wars you might have let the new set of wars actually play out. But no, you couldn't, because you're so insanely paranoid that you're willing to throw away both credibility and resources at the same time for nothing you couldn't have already gotten by doing nothing.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Sir Scarfalot

[Lone]

This is Lone from the United Armies. I don’t know what’s happening but there is a lot of salt content in here. I will continue my role as Head of Military Affairs, this war will be written by winners.

[Roquentin]

2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Oh, alright then, I look forward to your DoW against Not A Scam Credit Union LLC and their absolutely risk-free, disproportionately powerful economic dominance in the untouchable score range.

But seriously, your defense is completely laughable, in no small part because there's zero chance of anything you say you intend from coming to pass. Grumpy has already spent the billions upon billions to create the cities, which means that their whale status is something you cannot possibly take away no matter how much you'd like to.

Also, if we follow the same line of logic as you posit here, then the point of rolling IQ is to ensure that no-one can be too deeply consolidated in the mid-tier to war and lose infra, and therefore we must simply roll you until you disband. Grumpy won't stop being a "threat" to you by your logic until they disband, so it's only fair and natural for the logic to work the same way around; you will not stop being a "threat" to everyone that isn't NPO or enslaved to NPO until you disband. That's why I say in the other thread that this may well be endgame: You cannot EVER be trusted with peace; you admit to wanting nothing less than complete consolidation and a total, insurmountable victory, and we can't possibly even trust you to drop any of your allies. There can be only disbandment, which means that this war must never end. You don't deserve anything else, that's for sure.

Yeah, fraggle sure is making a lot of money and never had to be subsidized. It is another case of the game rewarding relative inaction and accumulation with an accolade.

I never said I was trying to stop them being whales or anything. It's risk-free big infra. I don't take issue with there being a 30 city nation. I take issue with there being one with 1.5 times or double the infra of a 15 while having a much lower risk of losing it. For most people who buy excess infra at those levels, they're cruising for a bruising like redphx.  

The alliances in those wars usually always lost their infra in wars it started and wars it got attacked in and people attacked it to retard its economic development. When people rebuilt after Terminal Jest, there was already a war in the works by some of the people involved here. When they were attacked on a similar CB to the one posted, they readily pointed out as soon as we went in that it would significantly make our financial situation much worse. It's easy for nations to damage mid tier nations. The mid tier did most of the fighting in Knightfall and there was significant damage done by the whales that got dragged down. TEst in Papers Please did a lot of damage to mid tier nations as well. So we have one tier that's easy to damage and one tier that's usually out of reach. In every global war prior to Knightfall, most of the fighting was in the mid tier and most of the expenditure in the mid tier as well so your comparison is way off. I'm not really sure of all this absolute victory stuff since we've never really tried to do that.  There are a lot of limitations on what we can conceivably achieve.

I don't see where it says I'm trying to disband anyone or get an absolute victory. I would far prefer it being more oriented around contained conflicts where both parties are recovering at a similar rate but that's usually a pipe dream. It would also be good if there were two sides that were more balanced in both numbers and skill level, but that has never been the case so far but if the political will existed it'd be easier to implement. But if you feel inclined to do the long war,  we're prepared for the worst case scenario.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Roquentin

[Shadowthrone]

6 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Yes, you do indeed want a disbandment of GoB at least, because that's the only way they'll ever face the threats you want them to face. Which, I should point out, they already do, so what you say and what you mean are clearly very deeply separate things. So, since your entire motivation and your entire existence is logically to annihilate your opponents, that means that nothing you can offer outside of your complete disbandment can possibly be acceptable to anyone that isn't your slave.

There can be no 'next set of wars', you've blown that chance when you lied about splitting IQ. You can't ever be trusted with splitting off from your allies ever again, so any assurances you make that you're totally not allied to BK are worth nothing, and you have no choice but to be assumed to be entirely allied to BK regardless of anything and everything. There can only be IQ vs the world, if you really wanted a different set of wars you might have let the new set of wars actually play out. But no, you couldn't, because you're so insanely paranoid that you're willing to throw away both credibility and resources at the same time for nothing you couldn't have already gotten by doing nothing.

I mean if the only threats are disbandment because you can be hit, then woah, I feel like you're underestimating GoB. All I hope is, that no alliance is free from being able to take on damage, every war, regardless of the tier they are in. That is the goal of tS here. That does not need to devolve into disbandment, nor does it need continuously evolve into the same circle of wars. Given the results of Surf's Up and tC-KERTOG, tS took a judgement call to be aggressive and see that everyone (including themselves mind you) are damaged effectively. 

The rest of your post is hyperbole, and categorically false, but go ahead. I'm enjoying being blamed for things I have no real role in. 

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Yes, you do indeed want a disbandment of GoB at least, because that's the only way they'll ever face the threats you want them to face. Which, I should point out, they already do, so what you say and what you mean are clearly very deeply separate things. So, since your entire motivation and your entire existence is logically to annihilate your opponents, that means that nothing you can offer outside of your complete disbandment can possibly be acceptable to anyone that isn't your slave.

There can be no 'next set of wars', you've blown that chance when you lied about splitting IQ. You can't ever be trusted with splitting off from your allies ever again, so any assurances you make that you're totally not allied to BK are worth nothing, and you have no choice but to be assumed to be entirely allied to BK regardless of anything and everything. There can only be IQ vs the world, if you really wanted a different set of wars you might have let the new set of wars actually play out. But no, you couldn't, because you're so insanely paranoid that you're willing to throw away both credibility and resources at the same time for nothing you couldn't have already gotten by doing nothing.

Use NPO as a punching bag for the first few years of its existence, force it into into a strategy of consolidating at the mid tier, now cry because you can't keep punching NPO. Continue being hostile to NPO at al, then cry when N$O sphere comes in against those hostile to it to nullify the threat they have against them.

[Sir Scarfalot]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Use NPO as a punching bag for the first few years of its existence, force it into into a strategy of consolidating at the mid tier, now cry because you can't keep punching NPO. Continue being hostile to NPO at al, then cry when N$O sphere comes in against those hostile to it to nullify the threat they have against them.

N$O came into a war they had no stake in, there was no hostility, and their enemies were literally fighting each other at their own expense. There was no threat, only paranoia and insane stupidity. You could have gotten everything you wanted: power, consolidation, security and resources, for free, by doing nothing. But no, you're too stupid to do that, and you're going to throw away everything you could have gained for zero reason at all.

The only possible gain is to maintain alliance with BK, so yes, keep crying when your disingenuous bullshit is called out. I won't stop until you cut my hands off, so go ahead and buy a plane ticket and do exactly that. It's the only way you'll stop me from pointing out the tremendous holes in your logic and strategy.

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

N$O came into a war they had no stake in, there was no hostility, and their enemies were literally fighting each other at their own expense. There was no threat, only paranoia and insane stupidity. You could have gotten everything you wanted: power, consolidation, security and resources, for free, by doing nothing. But no, you're too stupid to do that, and you're going to throw away everything you could have gained for zero reason at all.

The only possible gain is to maintain alliance with BK, so yes, keep crying when your disingenuous bullshit is called out. I won't stop until you cut my hands off, so go ahead and buy a plane ticket and do exactly that. It's the only way you'll stop me from pointing out the tremendous holes in your logic

Fake war, tears salty, GG.

[Lossi]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Fake war, tears salty, GG.

Impressive return.  At least take after Frawley or Dio's better posts and put effort into your responses.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Rosey Song

[Element]

8 hours ago, Khai Jäger said:

Those stats are fundamentally wrong. They include applicants. AK has 2 nations below 9... not 29 nations.

It counted the 27 applicant nations that are 1-9.

But you might have another look, you guys actually have 4 nations 1-9... 

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=166077

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=164271

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=165313

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=165313

Edited June 20, 2019 by element85

[Dio Brando]

1 minute ago, Rosey Song said:

Impressive return.  At least take after Frawley and put effort into your responses.

Not being mentioned in the list of effort-posters makes me sad. Am I not trying hard enough?  

[Sir Scarfalot]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Fake war, tears salty, GG.

I'll take that as a concession of the point

[Lossi]

Just now, Dio Brando said:

Not being mentioned in the list of effort-posters makes me sad. Am I not trying hard enough?  

I mean, you made that really bad attempt to Akuryo me, which seemed minimal if any effort.  But I'll fix it for you sweetie hold-on, cause you know I still love you <3

[Dio Brando]

3 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

I mean, you made that really bad attempt to Akuryo me, which seemed minimal if any effort.  But I'll fix it for you sweetie hold-on, cause you know I still love you ❤️

Akuryo you? Is this a new thing? I see the edit. ❤️ you too.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Dio Brando

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

I'll take that as a concession of the point

Your point has already been answered multiple times. If you choose not to read and understand, I can't help you.

5 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

Impressive return.  At least take after Frawley or Dio's better posts and put effort into your responses.

Thanks, I did 52 revisions of it before I was happy with its release.

[Insert Name Here]

Bahahahaha, TFP joined for the other side, can't wait to get my hands on those nubs.

[Lu Xun]

52 minutes ago, Insert Name Here said:

Bahahahaha, TFP joined for the other side, can't wait to get my hands on those nubs.

TFP is actually performing pretty well this war, using war attack and target selection patterns that are both standard and effective. There's actually a long list of alliances in BK-sphere that are performing worse than TFP.

[Tiberius]

34 minutes ago, CandyShi said:

There’s a difference between “answered” and “debunked”.

 

Answered includes posts like yours that say “hehe im so funny ur salty lmAO”.

 

Just like in the declaration thread, you can tell when BK starts posting when the post quality plummets.

 

I would say there’s hope for you, but your denial is the strongest I’ve ever seen, and that’s including the fact that I passed chinas no-no square today on the bus in Beijing (also known as “the place where the thing never happened 30 years ago. Pls dont arrest me thx”).

 

 

There is nothing to "debunk". KETOG and Chaos saw the opportunity to take BK sphere down and did so. Syndicate saw the opportunity to nullify the threat of KETOG/Chaos upper tier and did so. There is plenty of alliances in KETOG and Chaos who have been in coalition with each other in past wars. There is potential that if GOB and Guardian were allowed to dictate from their position that they would be left mostly untouched and so when two spheres who have historically co-operated, once again co-operate, you can pretty reasonably expect they will be a threat in the future to the next big sphere. Using an advantage now to minimise this threat in the future is good strategy. In any case KETOG/Chaos taking out BK sphere strengthens NPOs tiering consolidation and makes them more dominant where their strength lies. Years of hostility and attacks on the NPO has resulted in NPO not having a strong upper tier, if any at all and so that is where the biggest threat is to NPO and the sphere it is a part of.