We are here for the Whales

[Ryan1]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

We are just collaborating with BK-Sphere for this war

You're just too stupid to quit, aren't you?  Do the logs of Frawley stating that IQ is back (literally 12 hours after claiming they weren't trying to help BK to me in DMs) not provide enough evidence? 

I'm pretty shocked T$ hasn't figured out that NPO is a shit ally yet. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Ryan1

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Ryan1 said:

You're just too stupid to quit, aren't you?  Do the logs of Frawley stating that IQ is back (literally 12 hours after claiming they weren't trying to help BK to me in DMs) not provide enough evidence? 

I'm pretty shocked T$ hasn't figured out that NPO is a shit ally yet. 

Prove he said IQ is back or are you too stupid to tell the difference between that and what he actually said?

[Buorhann]

35 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You've made it clear you never really believed we had split......

You've made it very clear that it never occurred in the first place.

12 hours ago, Roquentin said:

The least you could have done was inform.

Did you inform them of your intentions to hit TKR?

[Mikey]

13 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Did you ever once announce you were going to pull out either way? No. Your priority was looking good to CoS and whoever else you wanted to flatter.  

If hitting wartime partners and getting 30 pages of shit for it is their idea of flattering us, then I'd hate to see what they get up to when they want to annoy us!

 

Also @Tiberius, since you're prattling on about this coalition being some MDAP and full sphere and whatnot, I'd like to call in my MDAP with NPO to hit BK. I mean, we, CoS and Empyria formed a wartime coalition with you, so we just be secret allies too!

Edited June 29, 2019 by Mikey

[Ryan1]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Prove he said IQ is back or are you too stupid to tell the difference between that and what he actually said?

[Justin076]

I was reviewing Tiberius's posts, preparing to make a response but I've been stomped as I cannot wrap my head around a single word coming from his mouth. 

[Prefonteen]

8 minutes ago, Justin076 said:

I was reviewing Tiberius's posts, preparing to make a response but I've been stomped as I cannot wrap my head around a single word coming from his mouth. 

 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Ryan1 said:

Posting a log where Frawley doesn't say IQ is back proves my point that he never said it. 

48 minutes ago, Justin076 said:

I was reviewing Tiberius's posts, preparing to make a response but I've been stomped as I cannot wrap my head around a single word coming from his mouth. 

Mission accomplished I suppose.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Posting a log where Frawley doesn't say IQ is back proves my point that he never said it. 

Mission accomplished I suppose.

No but your leader has already confirmed repeatedly it existed through paperless, so go be retarded somewhere else, lol.

[Ryan1]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Posting a log where Frawley doesn't say IQ is back proves my point that he never said it.

Are you really that retarded? 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, Ryan1 said:

Are you really that retarded? 

Those who do not have much of a brain always resort to insults such as this when it usually describes them better. 

[Lossi]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Those who do not have much of a brain always resort to insults such as this when it usually describes them better. 

He in a glass house, shouldn't throw stones.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

No but your leader has already confirmed repeatedly it existed through paperless, so go be retarded somewhere else, lol.

Evidence please and I expect a quote that directly says NPO has a paperless tie to ex-IQ alliances.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Rosey Song said:

He in a glass house, shouldn't throw stones.

There's a difference between shit posting and throwing insults. Just waiting for the rest of the circle jerk to come around now to say "You're retraded lolz". It's like you are all in a race to see who can please the master the quickest that you all fall over yourself to reply the same things.

[Lossi]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

There's a difference between shit posting and throwing insults. Just waiting for the rest of the circle jerk to come around now to say "You're retraded lolz". It's like you are all in a race to see who can please the master the quickest that you all fall over yourself to reply the same things.

Expectation made reality by desire.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Evidence please and I expect a quote that directly says NPO has a paperless tie to ex-IQ alliances.

Mind you, the only people who knew about this Was BK and NPO. Its in bulletin 3, and its basically a conditional MDP to be activated if two spheres ever combine forces, and the MDP is to activate for the "sphere harmed in war", which is BK, because of course, nobody else in any other sphere was brought into this agreement.

Have a nice day, either you're uninformed of your own alliance, brainwashed, or your government lies to you.

[Flame of the Flawed]

16 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Everyone in tS had last minute damascene conversions about what they wanted to leaving this "limited" stuff as the only possibility for war, which created all the bad blood while leaving a lot unresolved. There was no assurance of zero retaliation ever. 

I think we need to focus on the key issue here. Several times earlier I know you've shared similar feelings, and you had framed this as being a matter of NPO sovereignty (a term not used in this post, but several times elsewhere) when it comes to deciding to join the war contrary to the terms t$ had laid out. But I don't think anyone here has denied NPO's sovereignty. It is a matter of trust.

As I've said earlier, I'm retired so I'm not actively involved in these convos or decisions anymore, but I don't actually doubt that there was, as you put it, 'no assurance of zero retaliation ever' that came actively and verbally from NPO. But is that all an ally should expect? It was known within t$ that NPO had different views on this war (though the degree of how strong those differences were was clearly not known), but nonetheless the terms of this war were agreed upon, even if just 'tacitly', as you put it, if in this context 'tacitly' means you allowed t$ gov to believe you would follow the terms while never overtly promising 'no assurance of zero retaliation ever' ('ever', an absolute term, which certainly gives an absolute amount of flexibility). But I don't think t$ thought that such an overt assurance was needed to avoid NPO not following the previous agreement based out of an assertion of their sovereignty. No one is saying an alliance can't back out of earlier agreements if they so wish, but the repercussions are that it will impact your perceived trustworthiness amongst both your allies and the broader community. That is why this isn't a controversy or matter of sovereignty, but trust.

Ultimately, I think the calculations come down to that NPO always wanted in the war, but knew if they were upfront with t$ as to their intent, they knew t$ would never join. But they believed that a t$ hit on GOB and Guardian would garner counters which would prove the whole disagreement moot and allow entry without needing to be honest of their intentions to t$. t$ on the other hand believed that those counters would not occur if the terms were clearly communicated. NPO then acted as they did because t$'s prediction proved correct, which meant they wouldn't be able to enter the war as they desired. So this is actually all based in a strategic miscalculation of NPO in incorrectly predicting the response of Guardian's and GOB's allies.

Yes, Hilme's unexpected inactivity caused issues and dynamics to change, but that doesn't change the root of the issue of how NPO traversed this whole process.

 

Quote

 

Did you ever once announce you were going to pull out either way? No. Your priority was looking good to CoS and whoever else you wanted to flatter. That's not a priority for me. You were asked a million times of who this course of action would have us relying on post-war. It wasn't good enough. So when someone expects us to rely on the sweet nothings you got from a bloc for our long-term security, it's not going to happen.

Every other alliance who joined in on the front disagreed with your hard restrictions not changing on anything. You were taking heat and you took an easy out I provided. The least you could have done was inform.

 

If t$'s intent was flattery of the likes of CoS and their friends, then it is clear they never would have entered. But you do make an interesting point on not being informed beforehand to the exit from the war. But that is something that should go both ways. Though you had told t$ gov that you were planning to enter, which you then received a strongly negative reaction to (based on what I've already shared above), the timing of your entry was something that came as a complete shock and surprise to t$ leadership. NPO never informed t$ that they would be entering as soon as they did, as t$ found out about it at the same time as everyone else in this game. NPO did this knowing that it would result in an escalation of the war, which meant mass counters from the broader coalition on t$ and a complete alteration to t$'s war strategy, yet you did not inform them so that all of this, which meant t$ going to war with many more alliance's unexpectedly, was once again a complete surprise. If you had informed t$ leadership of your specific plans, and the timing, I'm confident t$ leadership would have told you what the response would be. I still see the gov channels and know that immediately before your strike, t$ gov was unaware and still ideally hoped to dissuade you from the attack. 

So yes, informing an ally of major moves is quite important. And I'm sorry you were so displeased that t$ took such a hard stance on following the criteria they had told the entire game of (truly a matter of t$ sovereignty) and of which NPO, as you acknowledged, had given its 'tacit' approval. But on the matter of being informed before hand, is it reasonable to expect such courtesies from others when you deny it to them?

[JordyHamsVII]

8 hours ago, Ryan1 said:

You're just too stupid to quit, aren't you?  Do the logs of Frawley stating that IQ is back (literally 12 hours after claiming they weren't trying to help BK to me in DMs) not provide enough evidence? 

Nah, Ryan, it's not that he has no idea what he's on about.

Instead

He's clearly just doing his part to make this the longest thread on the forums!

[Lossi]

1 hour ago, JordyHamsVII said:

Nah, Ryan, it's not that he has no idea what he's on about.

Instead

He's clearly just doing his part to make this the longest thread on the forums!

I mean, at this point, we're just making it harder to ever meet this record again.

[Shadowthrone]

6 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Mind you, the only people who knew about this Was BK and NPO. Its in bulletin 3, and its basically a conditional MDP to be activated if two spheres ever combine forces, and the MDP is to activate for the "sphere harmed in war", which is BK, because of course, nobody else in any other sphere was brought into this agreement.

Have a nice day, either you're uninformed of your own alliance, brainwashed, or your government lies to you.

Lmao, BK did not know about anything, reading rather than twisting words helps. It was an agreement between Kayser and ourselves. Had nothing to do with BK and as I did explain to folks later on, it was an agreement that would have defended any sphere from a combined attack. Quite simple really.

 

[True King]

Well, this war plan ended up being a disaster for Syndicate.

[Tiberius]

6 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Mind you, the only people who knew about this Was BK and NPO. Its in bulletin 3, and its basically a conditional MDP to be activated if two spheres ever combine forces, and the MDP is to activate for the "sphere harmed in war", which is BK, because of course, nobody else in any other sphere was brought into this agreement.

Have a nice day, either you're uninformed of your own alliance, brainwashed, or your government lies to you.

You bullshitted just like Ryan. That is both of you who can't read that have called me a retard.

[Settra]

12 hours ago, Justin076 said:

I was reviewing Tiberius's posts, preparing to make a response but I've been stomped as I cannot wrap my head around a single word coming from his mouth. 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

You bullshitted just like Ryan. That is both of you who can't read that have called me a retard.

You're the one not reading, it's stated right there. Roq, leader of NPO, had an agreement with Leo, leader of BK, to defend them if ever two spheres combined forces to attack. Considering that agreement nullifying N$O for the most part, its specifically targetting Chaos and KETOG ever uniting to attack BK. Like, in the case if for example, BK and its allies were planning to roll one of them.

Your alliance is ran by lying trash and has lying trash like you to scream "no no no no!" when the truth is given from the man up high himself. I can call you a retard or a mindless drone, pick your choice. 

[Pasky Darkfire]

1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

I can call you a retard or a mindless drone, pick your choice. 

Mindless Drone is the better option here. The other one implies some sort of cognitive function beyond that of bending over for the leaders of your alliance once a day.

 

13 hours ago, Justin076 said:

I was reviewing Tiberius's posts, preparing to make a response but I've been stomped as I cannot wrap my head around a single word coming from his mouth. 

But it sure is fun to keep them going. Just reply with dribble and they're write you a wall of stuff you can use to be more confused.