We are here for the Whales

[Betulius]

5 minutes ago, alyster said:

N$O taking a cheap shot to ensure whale tier dominance. Hello brave and beautiful hegemony, 

tbf, they'd need to actually win first

which, uh, they are not

[Lu Xun]

11 minutes ago, CandyShi said:

Did half of BK delete, or am I missing the part where BK has always enjoyed an overwhelming advantage in all of it’s wars?

 

Now that there’s some semblance of balance between the two sides of a global war, BK has to run to 3/4ths of the entire game to back them up?

 

If you’re going to say “hurr why didn’t you let Chaos rebuild”... we picked them up and spanked them into 0 mil, including spies. If you don’t think that BK revealing that they were planning to hit both of us doesn’t 

a) warrant an immediate response 

b) make allowing Chaos to spend 20 days rebuilding its spies seem stupid

 

you’re honestly beyond trying to reason with. 

 

Here let me simplify it for you.

1) Chaos/KT sphere are 100% justified in their blitz of BK, due to the leaks. This is in **defense** of ourselves, and we have the most valid CB in history.

2) BK are the aggressors here, with the leaks. You could argue that only alliances with the oAP can help BK, but we all know hypocrisy with invisible treaties is par for the course for them.

3) You can say “hurr low infra down declaring REE” all you want, but use that tiny brain of yours and think ahead. Say BK is as fricked as you say it is. What happens when your infra is lowered to a point where we can no longer declare on you? Seems like BK has a huge advantage with this war, as they’re going to be able to utilize their large number advantage while being out of counter range. Having 200+ more people join on the advantageous side, even if they’re losing because of incompetence, is stupid.

 

 

The most recent stats say that BK Syndi has about 900k planes, and Chaos KERTOG Arrgh have about 650k planes. BK Syndi has a small advantage (like, equivalent to a 5 member micro) once all combatants are counted, but you did start with a massive tiering advantage.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not this war is justified, because there is no one left to convince. The last remaining party in the war is NPO-sphere, and NPO is Syndi's treaty partner and Polaris's treaty partner. The war you launched created a Thucydides trap; the moment BK became fully suppressed (i.e, planes hit 400k or 300k), NPO and T$ became vulnerable to a first strike from your coalition. While 4KIQ / BK + T$NPO had statistical advantages over KERTOG Chaos, a strong first strike and half the coalition disabled would have granted you the win.

 

And to Sweet Ronny D's credit, he's admitted the threat.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Inst

[Tankobite]

1 minute ago, Inst said:

The most recent stats say that BK Syndi has about 900k planes, and Chaos KERTOG Arrgh have about 650k planes. BK Syndi has a small advantage (like, equivalent to a 5 member micro) once all combatants are counted, but you did start with a massive tiering advantage.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not this war is justified, because there is no one left to convince. The last remaining party in the war is NPO-sphere, and NPO has more or less committed to providing support in the event that Syndi starts losing, which it probably won't at this point. The war you launched created a Thucydides trap; the moment BK became fully suppressed (i.e, planes hit 400k or 300k), NPO and T$ became vulnerable to a first strike from your coalition. While 4KIQ / BK + T$NPO had statistical advantages over KERTOG Chaos, a strong first strike and half the coalition disabled would have granted you the win.

 

And to Sweet Ronny D's credit, he's admitted the threat.

The war we created due to the imminent attack by BK leaking? 
Extra Extra, read all about it!

[Kyubnyan]

3 minutes ago, Betulius said:

tbf, they'd need to actually win first

which, uh, they are not

eiGhT MAn bLitZ

[Mikey]

18 minutes ago, Inst said:

The most recent stats say that BK Syndi has about 900k planes, and Chaos KERTOG Arrgh have about 650k planes. BK Syndi has a small advantage (like, equivalent to a 5 member micro) once all combatants are counted, but you did start with a massive tiering advantage.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not this war is justified, because there is no one left to convince. The last remaining party in the war is NPO-sphere, and NPO is Syndi's treaty partner and Polaris's treaty partner. The war you launched created a Thucydides trap; the moment BK became fully suppressed (i.e, planes hit 400k or 300k), NPO and T$ became vulnerable to a first strike from your coalition. While 4KIQ / BK + T$NPO had statistical advantages over KERTOG Chaos, a strong first strike and half the coalition disabled would have granted you the win.

 

And to Sweet Ronny D's credit, he's admitted the threat.

Why would we have turned around and hit NPO? The only thing that even brought our spheres together was the knowledge BK was trying to get both of us rolled in a war we would have no chance of winning. To our knowledge from the response to the leak, N$O had not accepted (or even necessarily received) sphinx's proposal, thus our attack was directed to BK. After that mutual threat was neutralized, we'd have no reason to work together again.

Unless you're buying into the fake wear narrative, ignoring the huge damages - monetary and military - that we suffered, or the significant animosity between several alliances in our blocs. Grumpy's distaste for CoS is well known and well stated by SRD. CoS contains former TRF members and others who, shall we say, do not have the best history with KT/TGH, who themselves may harbor bad blood from their stomping by TKRsphere in the 69 day war. In fact, we seem to be the only spheres in the game that do have legitimate tensions with each other.

BK/NPO should just own what they are. They are teaming up to wipe out the last vestiges of the game who dare to stand apart from your group, albeit in the most laughably incompetent way possible (your analogy about the hong kong action movies could not be more apt). If you want to dominate the game, then dominate it and be unabashed about your intentions and your goals. Some people will always be on the boards talking about hegemonies stifling the game. But in my opinion, they'd be a lot less stifling if they were at least open about it and creating an interesting narrative for the game, instead of hiding behind fake splits and playing the victim.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Mikey

[Edward I]

2 hours ago, Justin076 said:

And yet we're expected to believe people like Dio when he says that there's no reason to put Syndi-NPO and BK in the same sphere grouping.

Does that mean that Chaos, KETOG and Rose are also a single sphere?  You all saw a danger to the balance of power (the threat of a BK-sphere attack on one or more of you) and moved to preemptively deal with the threat.  You were, as has already been pointed out, more than justified in doing so.  But being in a war coalition together doesn't make you a permanent sphere.

How is what t$ is doing any different?  Leaks from disgruntled former government members aren't the only way to assess which alliances are and aren't a threat, and t$ identified KETOG's upper tier in particular as a threat.  They're doing what you're all doing: opportunistically addressing the threat.  Chaos and KETOG decided to fight two wars for the price of a single rebuild; t$ decided to take a swing at an already-engaged KETOG.

[Lu Xun]

I'll post a proper thread called "Conspiracy Time with Inst!" You'll get all your answers questioned.

Put another way, the Syndi blitz was disarrayed, suggesting that t$ didn't have time to plan out the attack and just put something together on 24 hours notice. Syndi took massive damage from Grumpy Guardian, despite technically having launched the first strike. How much more damage would they have taken if Grumpy and Guardian had struck first?

[Lu Xun]

8 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

I do not understand the thinking of KERTOG when they keep saying the fight was even, and You do realise how wars work yes. How is it also for your upper tiers to have no infrastructure, therefore, letting nations with 32 cities hit people with 18 cities only due to the small nation having infrastructure, So please explain to me how its fair to have what 150 nations above 20 cities plus, down declaring nations on 15 cities and such.

Sure it might have been fair in terms of nations but please do not pass it off as anything more, you had the upper hand by having no infrastructure and being able to down declare by ten cities or more with having maxed military.

 

[Edward I]

2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

To say we don't take damage is silly, Grumpy currently has taken the 2nd most damage in this war on our side of the coalition.  So far we have taken 8.5 billion in damage spread across 30 nations, I doubt anyone besides maybe TCW (who has gotten whooped again..) has taken as much damage per nation as we have so far this war.  Personally, I took 4 billion in Knightfall, Nuke war, I took I think I ate 10-15 nukes, Sparta war I took about 750 million in infra damage, I think there is a war I am missing, but they all start to glob together after a while... to say that we don't take any damage is silly, in fact we take significantly more damage compared to you 15-20 city nations.

How much of that damage stems from having larger nations, though?  GOB nations have more military, infrastructure and (probably) more infrastructure per nation than most other nations.  Of course you'll receive more damage than them.  This isn't to say that GOB can't fight when it has to or when it's beneficial, just that those damage numbers probably aren't as remarkable as you're making them out to be.

Quote

End of the day, it is what it is.  What that is, is a challenge for us.  As for this huge upper tier threat that we pose to the world... I hear what you are saying, I would argue what is more dangerous, 30-40 nations with over 30 cities, or 150-200 nations sitting with 20 cities.  I would argue the 2nd, because unlike us, you guys are always in the fight, due to game mechanics we age out after 1-2 rounds if we have done our job correctly, and there are only 30 of us.  In terms of mechanics you have the advantage since you can declare on us, and we have to cripple ourselves to declare on you.  How does Grumpy and Guardian overcome that? Activity and Coordination. Everyone fights, and generally we fight together and we are pretty good at what we do.  I would view us as a threat too, and I admit we are a convenient and easy political target, first time you needed the entire world to take us down, now you wait till we are a month into fighting, and a week into a brand new war to opportunistically jump in.

I disagree for a couple of reasons.

Economic output becomes more efficient with size. More project slots, fewer rounds of war and, historically, less competitive wars mean whale tier nations produce more with every city and every unit of infrastructure than smaller nations do.

There are also military benefits, even if they're more limited.  Part of the reason for the IQ tiering strategy was an understanding that The Inquisition would never be able to compete in the upper tiers and that victory in the mid tier was therefore paramount.  In other words, because GOB specifically and upper tiers generally aren't just a handful of nations existing in diplomatic isolation, the only effective counter to them is to have a large middle tier.  Sure, 5-1 numerical advantage you cited is enough to bring down some 30+ city nations, assuming there are enough large-ish nations to fight the first few rounds.  But fighting a superior upper tier isn't just about bringing down the whales; it's also about fighting the smaller nations in the whales' coalition and effectively dealing with the whales when they've been brought down but can still buy units faster than you.

These issues tend to get worse if and when players become less active but still play the game.  GOB and Guardian are actively playing the political game, so that's not an issue here, but high activity levels and active governments don't always accompany concentrated upper tier strength.

6 minutes ago, CandyShi said:

Did you read the thread?

Did you read three more sentences into my post to see the answer to my rhetorical question?

Edited June 20, 2019 by Edward I

[Sir Scarfalot]

1 hour ago, Edward I said:

Does that mean that Chaos, KETOG and Rose are also a single sphere?  You all saw a danger to the balance of power (the threat of a BK-sphere attack on one or more of you) and moved to preemptively deal with the threat.  You were, as has already been pointed out, more than justified in doing so.  But being in a war coalition together doesn't make you a permanent sphere.

How is what t$ is doing any different?  Leaks from disgruntled former government members aren't the only way to assess which alliances are and aren't a threat, and t$ identified KETOG's upper tier in particular as a threat.  They're doing what you're all doing: opportunistically addressing the threat.  Chaos and KETOG decided to fight two wars for the price of a single rebuild; t$ decided to take a swing at an already-engaged KETOG.

What's different is that your sphere has:

1. leaked info showing attempts at mutual aggressive cooperation, not merely defensive

2. indirect treaty ties to each other at least

3. zero plausible tensions between t$, NPO, and BK

Whereas none of those things are true of our coalition, at all.

You were never forced into joining, and you had and have less than no reason to interfere... except of course for your paperless ties. Which totally never existed and aren't indicative of permanent relationship, right?

You had no threat over you. There was no reason for our coalition and diverse spheres to expand the engagement towards N$O, right up until you directly proved otherwise by doing just that. You had a chance, one chance to show that the IQ split was real, one chance to prove our theorizing false, one chance to show honesty and integrity AND save your asses a pounding in the process. But no, you blew it. You allied BK, when there was no defensive reason to. So yes, it's VERY different.

[Shadowthrone]

30 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

What's different is that your sphere has:

1. leaked info showing attempts at mutual aggressive cooperation, not merely defensive

2. indirect treaty ties to each other at least

3. zero plausible tensions between t$, NPO, and BK

Whereas none of those things are true of our coalition, at all.

You were never forced into joining, and you had and have less than no reason to interfere... except of course for your paperless ties. Which totally never existed and aren't indicative of permanent relationship, right?

You had no threat over you. There was no reason for our coalition and diverse spheres to expand the engagement towards N$O, right up until you directly proved otherwise by doing just that. You had a chance, one chance to show that the IQ split was real, one chance to prove our theorizing false, one chance to show honesty and integrity AND save your asses a pounding in the process. But no, you blew it. You allied BK, when there was no defensive reason to. So yes, it's VERY different.

1. We have been invited to the table by your sphere as well. We declined to enter regardless. Our position has been quite transparent where we found the threat, and Keegoz was intimated of the same as he's stated in this thread. So I imagine BK has a valid CB since folks approached us to roll them then? What a load of bollocks. 

 

2. Our ODoAP with Polaris is not an indirect tie to BK. We do not do paperless, and we will always reserve the right to defend Polar and vice versa, so we made that clear, which is far more than what other folks would do. Polar/NPO will always have a different relationship and how that functions is for us to decide. That is a relationship that has been built over the years, and I will never see it gone, to please the peanut gallery. 

 

3. tS has had enough tensions Citadel and co. Nevertheless, the threat was never the blob of BKsphere, since upper tier consolidation and growth was something tS has been clear on dealing with. Carrying out a stable, consistent policy might be too much for you to handle, but that is the truth. tS views upper tier's leaving the battlefield without damage as a threat to their security, and took actions to secure it, just as you have versus BKsphere etc. 

 

We will always have a threat over us. Given Chaos sphere and their inclinations, TKR and their goals, and KETOG not being on the best terms with us. Moreover, watching BKsphere burn and not aiding, means we've effectively done what we set out to do, box our sphere in as an independent actor, looking to do things that make the game interesting for ourselves. If there was indeed collusion, there are far more immediate pressing targets to deal with, and we really are not dealing with them. It has always been about the long-term game health, and that is why we exist. Your theorising of a fake split, is just that, given there exists no coordination servers with the Covenant, no intimation of tS' actions and we're running the war as per our own designs. 

 

But go on with the narratives, we really do not need to prove anything to anyone. Our actions are our own, and if you do not like them, feel free to ride into save Guardian/GoB. I'm still awaiting your counters  

[Sir Scarfalot]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

But go on with the narratives, we really do not need to prove anything to anyone. Our actions are our own, and if you do not like them, feel free to ride into save Guardian/GoB. I'm still awaiting your counters  

Lmao, if that's your plan then you REALLY goofed; what happens when Guardian/GOB don't even need assistance and nobody actually bites your obvious e-lawyering bait? Answer: You have to go in directly anyway in order to rescue BK. Checkm8

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

My god, you people can scream the same points over and over again with just a few changes in wording.

 

Just fight on and enjoy the war.

 

[Shadowthrone]

Just now, Sir Scarfalot said:

Lmao, if that's your plan then you REALLY goofed; what happens when Guardian/GOB don't even need assistance and nobody actually bites your obvious e-lawyering bait? Answer: You have to go in directly anyway in order to rescue BK. Checkm8

I mean, our plan was to damage Guardian/GoB. The moment that is done, our work is done. tS knew the costs when they entered, so yeah, no brainer here. 

[Sketchy]

So when is the t$ blitz happening. 

[Sisyphus]

4 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

So when is the t$ blitz happening. 

April Fools.

[Sketchy]

2 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

April Fools.

https://countingdownto.com/?c=2522087

Noted. We'll be waiting.

[Dio Brando]

Just now, Sketchy said:

https://countingdownto.com/?c=2522087

Noted. We'll be waiting.

Behold the 285 day war. Eat that, Knightfall.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Dio Brando

[Sisyphus]

3 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

https://countingdownto.com/?c=2522087

Noted. We'll be waiting.

Well shit. Now I'm committed. 

[Roquentin]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

Why would we have turned around and hit NPO? The only thing that even brought our spheres together was the knowledge BK was trying to get both of us rolled in a war we would have no chance of winning. To our knowledge from the response to the leak, N$O had not accepted (or even necessarily received) sphinx's proposal, thus our attack was directed to BK. After that mutual threat was neutralized, we'd have no reason to work together again.

Unless you're buying into the fake wear narrative, ignoring the huge damages - monetary and military - that we suffered, or the significant animosity between several alliances in our blocs. Grumpy's distaste for CoS is well known and well stated by SRD. CoS contains former TRF members and others who, shall we say, do not have the best history with KT/TGH, who themselves may harbor bad blood from their stomping by TKRsphere in the 69 day war. In fact, we seem to be the only spheres in the game that do have legitimate tensions with each other.

BK/NPO should just own what they are. They are teaming up to wipe out the last vestiges of the game who dare to stand apart from your group, albeit in the most laughably incompetent way possible (your analogy about the hong kong action movies could not be more apt). If you want to dominate the game, then dominate it and be unabashed about your intentions and your goals. Some people will always be on the boards talking about hegemonies stifling the game. But in my opinion, they'd be a lot less stifling if they were at least open about it and creating an interesting narrative for the game, instead of hiding behind fake splits and playing the victim.

I wouldn't bank on that second sentence.

Everyone knows variants of this have been on the table for a very long time.. There's a saying that history repeats itself.  At this point we get it, you don't like the people having so many treaties so you think hitting them over and over again will work in terms of breaking it apart. I mean some people have bailed from pressure before, so it could work, but that's not necessarily anyone people should want to incorporate in their own sphere.  One of the reasons we shifted was that the person doing the FA for tS understood people didn't break up if you made  wars referendums on their treaties.  I know there's also a lot of personal hatred involved here too, but usually the way these have been marketed as targeting consolidation.                                 

Yeah, SRD doesn't like CoS, yet the repositioning of TKR with Chaos and  GOB/Guardian/TGH/KT seemingly was a mutual decision between those alliances. They all determined shifting spheres would be beneficial and it's said to have been in the works for some time. I'm also fairly sure TKR made amends for its decision to declare war on KT/TGH. So was it really their intention to  just let their ally sign an enemy they were planning to roll?  I really don't want to bet that it was somehow anyone's preference to do the KETOG vs Chaos war because of that enmity.  The main reason people hought it wasn't full war is because there were some unconventional things employed in the first round. Then the Nova Riata scandal happened as well during it and Valinor getting Empyrea's money that was meant for Yarr bank and that also helped make it more controversial and there was a lot more infra damage after. But everyone saw that one alliance(GOB) was able to maintain mostly high infra in the war and it seems this is by design. The Valinor references you made before are funny to since the leadership isn't from TRF and the most controversial figure who had the beef is in VM and not participating in the war. It's pretty clear Valinor doesn't really have an alliance-wide issue with KT either way and even if they did they did it's doubtful, they'd ever be able to actually do anything about it because they  wouldn't have the political backing for it, which was the case for The Revolutionary Front as KT is an established political entity. The only time they were able to act on it was when they were asked to tag along in a conflict based on a different CB. 

I'm not sure you would actually prefer a hegemony that is actively the bad guys and wanting to impose its dominion as opposed to two separate spheres that don't coordinate. If someone ever attains that level of power and acts that way,  you'd probably say it's not interesting either.  Wars like these and virtually every other war in the game show nation count isn't the most important signifier of potential success.

Don't let us stop you from being wrong though.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Roquentin

[Edward I]

1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

What's different is that your sphere has:

1. leaked info showing attempts at mutual aggressive cooperation, not merely defensive

2. indirect treaty ties to each other at least

3. zero plausible tensions between t$, NPO, and BK 

Whereas none of those things are true of our coalition, at all.

You were never forced into joining, and you had and have less than no reason to interfere... except of course for your paperless ties. Which totally never existed and aren't indicative of permanent relationship, right?

You had no threat over you. There was no reason for our coalition and diverse spheres to expand the engagement towards N$O, right up until you directly proved otherwise by doing just that. You had a chance, one chance to show that the IQ split was real, one chance to prove our theorizing false, one chance to show honesty and integrity AND save your asses a pounding in the process. But no, you blew it. You allied BK, when there was no defensive reason to. So yes, it's VERY different. 

Keshav covered everything else pretty well, but I wanted to add a few more points.

1. The leaked Discord logs didn't say N$O conspired to hit KETOG or Chaos aggressively. They said part or all of BK-sphere did and that Sphinx intended to invite N$O, which, by all accounts, never really happened. The leak was an indication of aggressive intent by a good chunk of BK-sphere, not by N$O.

2. Adding to what I said above, the implication of "indirect ties" between our two spheres - setting aside its self-inconsistencies, see Keshav's post - is that BK-sphere and N$O are really one big sphere. If that were true, though, the leak wouldn't have made much sense. Sphinx wouldn't have had to invite us; he could have safely assumed we were on board by that stage of planning. And, "attempts at mutual aggressive cooperation", as you put it, are characteristic of ad hoc coalitions, not permanent spheres.

An interesting aside, Rose has indirect ties to both BK and N$O by these criteria. Obviously this hasn't stopped them from perfidiously dishonoring those indirect ties and fighting BK. Has anyone from your coalition informed them that they're fighting on the wrong side of the war?

3. If there really was no reason for BK and N$O to fight, and that lack of animus constituted a threat to Chaos, KETOG, and Rose - "forcing" them to band together in the face of a "threat over them", as you imply - then why did KETOG initiate a war against Chaos? Public perception of BK-sphere's and N$O's opinions of one another didn't change drastically between the beginning of that war and the leak of the Discord logs. And you don't need logs of a half-baked, unimplemented conspiracy to see that, if you believed your own claims, that N$O and BK would inevitably attack Chaos or KETOG. So if it's very bad of us to conduct our FA as we have, it was also very stupid of KETOG to start the war that it did.

Lastly, the attack on GOB and Guardian had nothing to do with "honesty and integrity". No one in N$O made any promises to anyone in KETOG that KETOG nations were off-limits to N$O aggression.  It does not, as the OP of this thread clearly stated, have anything to do with defending BK. This is not a defensive action; it is an opportunistic act of aggression.  And, as the OP clearly states, The Syndicate has no intention to expand the war to aid BK-sphere in, you know, the tiers its war with Chaos/KETOG/Rose is actually being fought. (If you don't believe me on this one, check GOB and Guardian's wars. Last I looked they weren't fighting a single war with anyone outside N$O, so the claim that hitting them directly helps BK is pretty weak.)

[Sir Scarfalot]

13 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

-blah blah blah blah blah-

Sure thing fam. Why interrupt the war between your two opponents weakening each other, then weakening each other again against a third sphere with which you "don't coordinate", then? You had a win/win option by doing nothing, just building up while your three rivals weakened themselves at their own expense, while you get to even sit tight with not merely zero obligation to spend resources on the situation but stood to prove your political platform of actually showing that IQ had indeed permanently and totally split, for free. But instead you throw away all pretense of splitting IQ and all the resources and potential growth time away, and for literally nothing you didn't already have.

This move of yours was the stupidest possible action that could possibly have ever been taken, ever. Congratulations, you've hit a shiny new low.

[Guest Frawley]

1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

2. indirect treaty ties to each other at least

If this were true, I'd be finishing my first round against KERTOG now, because we were fully milled on the day you hit them and would have gone in immediately.

[Sir Scarfalot]

4 minutes ago, Edward I said:

Keshav covered everything else pretty well, but I wanted to add a few more points.

1. The leaked Discord logs didn't say N$O conspired to hit KETOG or Chaos aggressively. They said part or all of BK-sphere did and that Sphinx intended to invite N$O, which, by all accounts, never really happened. The leak was an indication of aggressive intent by a good chunk of BK-sphere, not by N$O.

2. Adding to what I said above, the implication of "indirect ties" between our two spheres - setting aside its self-inconsistencies, see Keshav's post - is that BK-sphere and N$O are really one big sphere. If that were true, though, the leak wouldn't have made much sense. Sphinx wouldn't have had to invite us; he could have safely assumed we were on board by that stage of planning. And, "attempts at mutual aggressive cooperation", as you put it, are characteristic of ad hoc coalitions, not permanent spheres.

An interesting aside, Rose has indirect ties to both BK and N$O by these criteria. Obviously this hasn't stopped them from perfidiously dishonoring those indirect ties and fighting BK. Has anyone from your coalition informed them that they're fighting on the wrong side of the war?

3. If there really was no reason for BK and N$O to fight, and that lack of animus constituted a threat to Chaos, KETOG, and Rose - "forcing" them to band together in the face of a "threat over them", as you imply - then why did KETOG initiate a war against Chaos? Public perception of BK-sphere's and N$O's opinions of one another didn't change drastically between the beginning of that war and the leak of the Discord logs. And you don't need logs of a half-baked, unimplemented conspiracy to see that, if you believed your own claims, that N$O and BK would inevitably attack Chaos or KETOG. So if it's very bad of us to conduct our FA as we have, it was also very stupid of KETOG to start the war that it did.

Lastly, the attack on GOB and Guardian had nothing to do with "honesty and integrity". No one in N$O made any promises to anyone in KETOG that KETOG nations were off-limits to N$O aggression.  It does not, as the OP of this thread clearly stated, have anything to do with defending BK. This is not a defensive action; it is an opportunistic act of aggression.  And, as the OP clearly states, The Syndicate has no intention to expand the war to aid BK-sphere in, you know, the tiers its war with Chaos/KETOG/Rose is actually being fought. (If you don't believe me on this one, check GOB and Guardian's wars. Last I looked they weren't fighting a single war with anyone outside N$O, so the claim that hitting them directly helps BK is pretty weak.)

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaa, hahahahaha, hahahahaaa! Haha! Alright, fine, sounds good, and all of that is 100% a perfect reason for N$O to sit OUT of the war. But no, you JOINED the war, doing EXACTLY what you literally are now saying you weren't and aren't doing.

And sure thing, go ahead and hit the tier that you've been so loudly whining about being hegemonic, insurmountable, terrible, game-breaking, and say that it isn't a direct effort to assist BK. I'll laugh continuously at you for literal days.

[The Mad Titan]

3 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

And sure thing, go ahead and hit the tier that you've been so loudly whining about being hegemonic, insurmountable, terrible, game-breaking, and say that it isn't a direct effort to assist BK. I'll laugh continuously at you for literal days.

Based off the tone of your posts there isn't much laughing going on tho