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Alex

5/31/2019 - Resource Duplication Bug Fix

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Delete cities to 10 for everyone that has applied or been on Nova aa since the 28th to present.

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1 minute ago, Sphinx said:

@Filmore

The whole alliance should be punished if they keep that up, their practically rubbing it in others faces. If Nova don't face some form of punishment akin to Terradoxia then who's to say that they won't do this again if they find some other bug to exploit. 

GVH is a piece of garbage. This isn't the only realm he resides in, and everyone who has interacted with him the least bit will tell you all about what kind of person he is. I will refrain from enumerating his numerous inadequacies and general lack of conscience here on the forums, but feel free to hit me up on Discord.

As for the broader question: Nova's 'top tier' profited from this massively. What more evidence do you need to convince yourself that they at-least knew about this? Even if they didn't, in-fact, they should still face punitive actions. If tomorrow I am told my alliance was exploiting the game, I'd be the first to ask Sheepy to delete my cities if I benefited from it.

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1 minute ago, Sphinx said:

@Filmore

The whole alliance should be punished if they keep that up, their practically rubbing it in others faces. If Nova don't face some form of punishment akin to Terradoxia then who's to say that they won't do this again if they find some other bug to exploit. 

They just need more credits fam
YoU aRe GuIlTy uNlEsS PrOvEn VIP

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The fact that they’re rubbing it in other people’s faces like that just shows the lack of remorse and dare I say pride in what they managed to pull off and avoid punishment. Come on Alex.

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Just an idea: calculate the cost of all the cities bought between the 28th and the present and subtract the net revenue Nova made over the time period.  Add 3% interest per week (to account for the extra city growth) and have Nova pay back that sum.  

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

I would like to point out that the money and resources being removed from the game here are not insignificant. Here's a quick spreadsheet showing just that:

image.png

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance.

 

So you're saying buy coal?  On it, boss.

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2 minutes ago, Alex said:

I would like to point out that the money and resources being removed from the game here are not insignificant. Here's a quick spreadsheet showing just that:

image.png

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance.

I can't dislike your post because of run out of dislikes because of all your posts.

Delete all of Nova to ten cities or I'm gonna get my pitchfork and torch. You can't let them get away with it. They should be punished not rewarded. Only deleting a few cities won't counter all the benefits. They should be punished not reduce their reward for cheating slightly.

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1 minute ago, Alex said:

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance. 

12 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Thanks for looking into it. I think a lot of us in the community would be ok if the benefited city growth (A lot of them had multiple cities built within just a few days) was removed.  While we're not asking those players to be banned, it'd go a ways to secure our confidence in the handling of players who exploit the mechanics of the game.

Absolutely this. It sets a dangerous precedent. In the past, I vaguely remember an exploit at turn change that spawned money. When the players found it, they spawned in some money and warned you about it. You let them keep the money because they told you about it as opposed to continuing to exploit it. Here, they didn't warn you until everyone and their pet bot knew. Yet, you're effectively letting them keep a large portion of their spawned resources by letting them keep their cities. Hell, look at this announcement from when you were in Peru in 2015. Specifically, look at this post (emphasis added). This was even in Alpha/Beta/whatever-we're-calling-it-now, not the actual game. Why have more strict punishment for an exploit when testing the game than when the game is actually live?

On 4/8/2015 at 1:39 AM, Alex said:

In case you guys missed my last announcement, I was away on a trip.

Now I was away and authorized Skynet to make a post regarding this issue, but if you really think I plan on resetting an alliance for a bug that gives them $1, you're crazy. I like to think I'm not a wholly unreasonable person.

However, the fact of the matter is that if you experience a bug in the game, whether it's by intentional seeking out and abusing exploits or accidentally triggering a bug, it's your duty to report it so that it can be addressed and the game improved. I'm hopeful that with a recent change in the code I may have finally squashed the elusive bank bug, but only time will tell.

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3 minutes ago, Alex said:

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance.

And what about the resources in the Nova Bank?
Clearly a large part of it is still directly in the alliance bank. 

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Wow Alex you have banned people in the past 5 years for way less then this. You need to do more this is absolutely unacceptable. If you let them off Scott free with this your opening the door for more exploits to be taken advantage of. Your lack of punishment for this clear exploit of the game is a massive let down to this community. 

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Just now, Alex said:

I would like to point out that the money and resources being removed from the game here are not insignificant. Here's a quick spreadsheet showing just that:

image.png

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance.

This shouldn't be viewed in terms of punishment. The unbalancing effect this has had and will continue to have on the game is massive. If you're willing to overhaul the game multiple times for the sake of economic balance, I don't see why that shouldn't be an overriding priority in your response here as well.

Independent of balance issues, your dual stance of presuming everyone is innocent until proven otherwise and treating resource deletion (or city deletion, etc.) as "punishment" is rewarding the exploiters. If people can benefit from cheating just by clearing the ludicrously low bar of not being conclusively tied to it, they will cheat. Other punishments such as banning accounts are probably not terribly effective against people already willing to operate rings of multi accounts.

Delete the profits from this exploit as extensively and as retroactively as you are able.

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Just now, Alex said:

I would like to point out that the money and resources being removed from the game here are not insignificant. Here's a quick spreadsheet showing just that:

image.png

I understand that everyone is not satisfied with the amount of punishment I've metered out thus far, and I am considering removing cities built by Nova Riata government members because you're right, that can't be "fixed" by you all (the players.) However, deleting all of these resources is still an enormously significant punishment for the entirety of the alliance.

The cities they've cheated are huge, an average alliance takes like 2 years to reach that kind of growth level. As someone pointed out on Discord, they went from a sub-top 50 micro to a top 10 alliance in 3 months, and this exploit was a big, if not 90% part of that. It's not fair to the rest of the game.

They're also gonna make a lot of that money back very quick if they keep those.

Also while on topic, you can throw that credits survey out the door, because the seeming lack of credits on the market are caused by Nova buying them all up. They have so much cash they don't know what to do with it but store some of it in credits.

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34 minutes ago, Alex said:

I am trying to be fair to the average members of Nova Riata who very likely did benefit from this exploit but did so unknowingly. As I stated above, I do believe pooball and The North 14 were most intimately involved, but I still do not feel comfortable punishing them without further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit.

I think this is where "balance of probability" comes into play. Let's be real - if a leader of an alliance is getting 200 billion from a source that they know nothing about, then they were negligent in their responsibility to not be complicit. Just this week, I recieved 200million and my leader inquired into its source. 

 

I think that it's extremely suspicious, and that serious investigation should be conducted on pooball and the North 14 to dig up any misconduct, rather than simply waiting for convincing evidence to arise. This is of course even if you choose to wait for concrete evidence before taking disciplinary action. 

 

I respect for your decision not to punish NR members, even though I'm not sure I agree with the principle - it makes sense from a practical standpoint. That being said, the cities bought are absolutely "fruit of the poisonous tree". 

 

To respond quickly by saying that deleting resources of a punishment, that's objectively not the case. Rather, it's just reversing the actions of PART of the exploited resources, effectively mitigating the gains on his part. 

Edited by Canter
Adding content

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Hi Alex - I want to say that I think not enough will have been done if the current course remains. However, I have faith that you are trying to get more evidence to bring justice where it is needed. Regardless, I appreciate your dedication to responding directly to this issue and I hope we can all find an agreeable resolution to this.

Edited by Nao
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So cheaters do prosper.

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People....People....let's all relax. The fine folks of Nova Rita has been more than generous to the world. Let's not dig too deep on this.

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All projects and cities funded by NR since the incident should be deleted. It was funded by illegal funds, whether their members knew or not.  They can rebuild those things once they can do so legally.  Now, about Pantheon reparations.....

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