Alucard Hellsing Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Tbh lack of punishment feels much more like a spit the face of those who play honestly. Like I'm sorry my alliance didnt generate massive amounts of rrs and quickly climb the leaderboards (All the while not knowing how the money was getting there). Heck I'll take the resource fallout from it, just dont let this go so easily, it just kills the whole mood of the game. "We ruin the countries we govern and the people in our care. We slaughter our enemies and sacrifice all our allies. We’ll keep killing till there’s nothing left but to destroy ourselves. It will never be enough" "You'll never win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) Deleting Nova Riata's cities down to 10 almost wouldn't be enough, considering how much they've gained from the mere production capacity of their illegal cities, let alone how much extra military they've been able to deploy due entirely to their cheated cities. There's no question here, extreme punitive measures could only ever be minimally acceptable. For what it's worth, I still firmly believe that the other members of Chaos Bloc are innocent though. They really shouldn't be punished any more than their massive public embarassment already is inevitably going to/has, unless of course more evidence as conclusive as has been shown against Nova Riata comes to light. Edited June 1, 2019 by Sir Scarfalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingChicken Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 *Me having been in the Federation and then forcibly being merged with Nova Riata and realizing I'm going to get deleted* If I send the resources I got from the Nova bank when I joined back to you can I keep my nation? "Njordor of Vanaheimr has sent your nation $3,000,000.00, 40,000.00 food, 0.00 coal, 0.00 oil, 2,000.00 uranium, 0.00 lead, 0.00 iron, 0.00 bauxite, 10,000.00 gasoline, 10,000.00 munitions, 16,000.00 steel, and 14,000.00 aluminum from the alliance bank of Nova Riata." I'll send it back and join a micro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) This thread didn't age well, apparently. From 2015: On 7/9/2015 at 7:25 PM, Alex said: As for those who abused this exploit or knowingly received funds, we will continue to root you out and remove you from this community. The exploit may be fixed, but our investigation is not over, and we will continue to catch and reprimand the abusers. It's only a matter of time before you're caught - if you enjoy playing Politics & War and participated in this abuse I strongly recommend you come forward and turn yourself in immediately. A number of players have been banned and removed from the game already, along with quite a bit of spawned resources and cash. Like I said in my other post, we can't get rid of it all, but it's spread so thin and the economy of the game is so dynamic that the effects of the exploit will dissipate quickly over time. I'm looking forward to a new era of exploit-free Politics & War! Keep on enjoying the game, guys! And from the other 2015 thread: Quote The players that are behind the exploit are the likes of Sith/Pol Pot, Ghost (who was banned some time ago, though I left his nation in an effort to entice him to divulge information about the exploit to me), Death, and NMA. There are others, such as Last187, that have been receptacles of some of the spawned cash. He has been banned as well. Let me make it clear right now, that I will track down anyone who has conspired with the cheaters, and they shall be banned and removed from the game, forever. Edited June 1, 2019 by WISD0MTREE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. That said, I do agree that cities cannot be destroyed and those are a permanent unfair advantage gained from this exploit. I have gone through all of the Nova Riata government nations and identified all of the cities built after the exploit occurred on 4-28, and I have deleted the cities. This comes out to almost $7 billion in new city costs alone, and I did not calculate the collective value of infrastructure, improvements, etc. 8 3 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingChicken Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I spent some of it, of course, but I sent back the rest I have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, ReadingChicken said: I spent some of it, of course, but I sent back the rest I have. You shouldn't have sent it to Nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Alex said: snip Which according to your numbers they sold off $86 billion of the $209 billion generated. So that only 8% of their illicit gains removed, They still profited enormously from this scam, but thank you for at least taking the community advice, I hope they receive far more punishment than that though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftbehind Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 What a joke.... FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alex said: I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. That said, I do agree that cities cannot be destroyed and those are a permanent unfair advantage gained from this exploit. I have gone through all of the Nova Riata government nations and identified all of the cities built after the exploit occurred on 4-28, and I have deleted the cities. This comes out to almost $7 billion in new city costs alone, and I did not calculate the collective value of infrastructure, improvements, etc. But why is it only SINCE 4-28, from what i gathered this is the latter part when they got cocky and got CAUGHT, not when it started.... what about the cities dealt between jan 1st and now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward I Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Alex said: I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. Rewarding cheaters is the default here because the resources are already generated and in use. Doing nothing amounts to rewarding them. The only way to not reward them is to remove their ill-gotten gains. Just now, Alex said: My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. This is inadequate and unfair. 1) Your judgment is not arbitrary. Rules that you made were broken and the expectation that you will enforce those rules is entirely reasonable. 2) It is not the community's job to enforce the rules and we are far worse-equipped to do it than you are. 3) Even if we managed to track down every unit of illicitly generated resources and loot them, it still wouldn't change the fact that an absurdly large amount of extra resources were generated and still exist in-game. This is a balance issue, it's a moral hazard, and it's still a reward for cheating. The fact that all of the reward may not have gone to the cheaters themselves is a poor excuse for the rest. Just now, Alex said: That said, I do agree that cities cannot be destroyed and those are a permanent unfair advantage gained from this exploit. I have gone through all of the Nova Riata government nations and identified all of the cities built after the exploit occurred on 4-28, and I have deleted the cities. This comes out to almost $7 billion in new city costs alone, and I did not calculate the collective value of infrastructure, improvements, etc. That's good to hear. Thank you for listening to the community's feedback. We appreciate it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alex said: I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. That said, I do agree that cities cannot be destroyed and those are a permanent unfair advantage gained from this exploit. I have gone through all of the Nova Riata government nations and identified all of the cities built after the exploit occurred on 4-28, and I have deleted the cities. This comes out to almost $7 billion in new city costs alone, and I did not calculate the collective value of infrastructure, improvements, etc. -images snipped- Thank you, @Alex. 2 Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, KingGhost said: But why is it only SINCE 4-28, from what i gathered this is the latter part when they got cocky and got CAUGHT, not when it started.... what about the cities dealt between jan 1st and now? No, the majority of the exploit occurred on 4-28. It's actually very apparent in the total resource quantity graphs: I don't really have a reason to believe that the growth which occurred before then was not legitimate. If there was a huge quantity of resources spawned before then, it would be apparent in the bank transaction records. Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alex said: Snip Excellent decision. I approve almost entirely. My question to you is: are you certain 4/28 was the date they began doing this? Is there a chance they were doing this for longer (we saw regular jumps before, too)? As an aside, thank you very much for this quick decision. I had doubts. They exist in an incredibly diminished capacity as of now. Edited June 1, 2019 by Dio Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparqs Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alex said: I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. That said, I do agree that cities cannot be destroyed and those are a permanent unfair advantage gained from this exploit. I have gone through all of the Nova Riata government nations and identified all of the cities built after the exploit occurred on 4-28, and I have deleted the cities. This comes out to almost $7 billion in new city costs alone, and I did not calculate the collective value of infrastructure, improvements, etc. It would seem that 4-6 would be a more appropriate cut-off date, based on Akuryo's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Dio Brando said: Excellent decision. I approve almost entirely. My question to you is: are you certain 4/28 was the date they began doing this? Is there a chance they were doing this for longer (we saw regular jumps before, too)? I do believe it was happening at a very small scale before 4-28, starting sometime in mid-March. However the amounts generated were nothing compared to the huge 4-28 spike, and pretty negligible imo. 1 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malichy Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, KingGhost said: But why is it only SINCE 4-28, from what i gathered this is the latter part when they got cocky and got CAUGHT, not when it started.... what about the cities dealt between jan 1st and now? I have to agree. It clearly seems like it was going on far longer than that. And the more evidence you show, the more it seems like their gov knew what was happening. (Edit: The replies above occurred as I was writing my post. Thanks for addressing the issue.) That said, I echo the thanks for your efforts on this @Alex. Edited June 1, 2019 by Malichy MofFA United Purple Nations Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sir Scarfalot Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alex said: I don't disagree with the argument that cheating should be punished, not rewarded, and my intention is not to reward anyone. My expectation is that the community will likely police itself in terms of punishing the offenders, which feels more fair to me than my arbitrary judgement of who I believe is guilty and who is innocent. Police itself? How? Even if we ignore the argument about war being fun and impossible to lose in a meaningful way due to mechanics that *should* exist for very good balance reasons, you're asking us to punish the exploiters by waging war against their cheated resources while using our own honestly grinded resources. How is that fair? We just end up that much more behind, while they lose nothing they didn't cheat in on the first place? Also 7 billion in new city costs is a *tiny* fraction of the amount of resource value they are known to have exploited in and is not yet accounted for. So, please, don't let this be the end of the investigation or the end of your corrective actions. Thanks for doing as much as you've done, but please, you've gotta go further... 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Alex said: I do believe it was happening at a very small scale before 4-28, starting sometime in mid-March. However the amounts generated were nothing compared to the huge 4-28 spike, and pretty negligible imo. Ah, I see. I can agree with that analysis. Thank you. Edited June 1, 2019 by Dio Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) It should be noted Alex i was able to document evidence as far as back as 4/14 of this being done. I'm told trades expire after 45 days, so 4/6 and 4/8 are believed to be the start of it as it mirrors the 4/14 and 4/16 dates. It should also be noted noted, Alex, 4/6, 4/8, 4/14 and 4/16 added up are roughly equal to 4/28, so i wouldn't call them minimal. Edited June 1, 2019 by Akuryo 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Alex said: I do believe it was happening at a very small scale before 4-28, starting sometime in mid-March. However the amounts generated were nothing compared to the huge 4-28 spike, and pretty negligible imo. No, they're known to have exploited far far more than just the 4-28 spike, that's very well documented, so you've absolutely got to go farther 1 minute ago, Dio Brando said: Ah, I see. I can agree with that analysis. Thank you. No, no, the deleted cities only accounts for a SMALL fraction of what's understood to have been spawned in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said: Thanks for doing as much as you've done, but please, you've gotta go further... Absolutely. 2015 Sheepy would've banned them for $10 mil illicitly gained cash. Now $209 billion in resources is just removing a few cities? For contrast: On 7/9/2015 at 7:25 PM, Alex said: As for those who abused this exploit or knowingly received funds, we will continue to root you out and remove you from this community. The exploit may be fixed, but our investigation is not over, and we will continue to catch and reprimand the abusers. It's only a matter of time before you're caught - if you enjoy playing Politics & War and participated in this abuse I strongly recommend you come forward and turn yourself in immediately. A number of players have been banned and removed from the game already, along with quite a bit of spawned resources and cash. Like I said in my other post, we can't get rid of it all, but it's spread so thin and the economy of the game is so dynamic that the effects of the exploit will dissipate quickly over time. I'm looking forward to a new era of exploit-free Politics & War! Keep on enjoying the game, guys! And from the other 2015 thread: Quote The players that are behind the exploit are the likes of Sith/Pol Pot, Ghost (who was banned some time ago, though I left his nation in an effort to entice him to divulge information about the exploit to me), Death, and NMA. There are others, such as Last187, that have been receptacles of some of the spawned cash. He has been banned as well. Let me make it clear right now, that I will track down anyone who has conspired with the cheaters, and they shall be banned and removed from the game, forever. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Akuryo said: It should be noted Alex i was able to document evidence as far as back as 4/14 of this being done. I'm told trades expire after 45 days, so 4/6 and 4/8 are believed to be the start of it as it mirrors the 4/14 and 4/16 dates. I know it happened on a small scale on 4/6, 4/8, 4/14, and 4/16, but like I said, essentially negligible amounts were generated. Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said: No, no, the deleted cities only accounts for a SMALL fraction of what's understood to have been spawned in The rest (in the bank) is to be deleted. Am I wrong in my understanding of the course of action Alex has decided upon? Edited June 1, 2019 by Dio Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lossi Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 @Alex I want to start with a thank you for making a public acknowledgement of the situation. I'm extremely frustrated that they're walking away with hardly a flick on the palm, but I do understand a lack of evidence being an issue. That said, I implore you to perhaps not punish the members of Nova, but the alliance itself. An investigation of the extent they benefited from this will absolutely surely be long, grueling and time consuming, but with such little punishment it's going to be extremely difficult to regain the faith of the userbase. And I see a future where cheating is sure to increase with people just, recruiting friends to claim lack of accountability. 3 Quote Former leader of Chocolate Castle 4/1/2021 "It's pretty easy to get abused by Rosey without being a weirdo about it" - Betilius "Rosey is everything I look for in a fighter" - partisan "I’m very much not surprised that Lossi has you blocked tbh" - @MCMaster-095 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts