Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Joel James

Make Planes Vulnerable to Something Else

Recommended Posts

Oh dear, I can already see all the posts accusing me of being butthurt about the last war. 

 

Currently, all units (except one) are vulnerable to something else: ships can be destroyed by ships and planes and ground forces can be destroyed by ground forces and planes, but planes can only be destroyed by other planes, which seems a tad ridiculous. 

I'm not saying that soldiers and ships become AA sharpshooters overnight, but is it possible to give AA capabilities to ground forces and ships? Granted, it would not be very effective (even IRL, the best defense against a horde of planes is your own horde of planes) but sending 100 planes against like 100 ships and only the ships taking damage is a bit ridiculous. 

And before someone points out that ground forces can loot and ships can blockade but planes can't do anything, I'm fairly certain that planes are already the heavy hitting unit as is. They do far more damage than most other units. 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're not wrong; and this has been suggested before. For what it's worth, ground forces can get ground control, which counters aircraft somewhat.

The counterargument is that aircraft can be allowed to be the heavy-hitting unit that are worked around; their power is part of the tactical balance and they don't need to be nerfed. Whether or not you agree with that tends to be proportionate to how much steel you've lost to aircraft in the last couple of months, so you're not off base on any particular point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Navy AA guns was one idea Alex had & never implemented. (Should do it)

Also adding new anti air ground vehicles, which might be much weaker vs ground. Although allow ground forces to defend against air units & target them with ground attacks maybe. Maybe new project which allows each factory to produce 2 of these in addition to the tanks or something. Just brainstorming here...

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Navy AA guns was one idea Alex had & never implemented. (Should do it)

Also adding new anti air ground vehicles, which might be much weaker vs ground. Although allow ground forces to defend against air units & target them with ground attacks maybe. Maybe new project which allows each factory to produce 2 of these in addition to the tanks or something. Just brainstorming here...

Not a bad idea actually. Instead of making it a dedicated unit though, maybe group it with tanks? That way players will still be working with the same 500 tanks per factory, but will have to balance the number of AA guns and tanks they have. 

As you said, they would be weak against ground, and would not be very effective to not make planes a non-factor in wars. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2019 at 10:55 PM, Joel James said:

Oh dear, I can already see all the posts accusing me of being butthurt about the last war. 

 

Currently, all units (except one) are vulnerable to something else: ships can be destroyed by ships and planes and ground forces can be destroyed by ground forces and planes, but planes can only be destroyed by other planes, which seems a tad ridiculous. 

I'm not saying that soldiers and ships become AA sharpshooters overnight, but is it possible to give AA capabilities to ground forces and ships? Granted, it would not be very effective (even IRL, the best defense against a horde of planes is your own horde of planes) but sending 100 planes against like 100 ships and only the ships taking damage is a bit ridiculous. 

And before someone points out that ground forces can loot and ships can blockade but planes can't do anything, I'm fairly certain that planes are already the heavy hitting unit as is. They do far more damage than most other units. 

Nerfing planes will make up declaring to try and take whales down more or less pointless.

In my opinion they are only heavy hitting if you get Air Supremacy and the opponent doesn't have ground control, on a 1 v 1 level. My question to you, why doesn't everyone go the planes route if they are OP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because once your air force gets to a low enough count, it's gg. There is no way to rebuild your air force without it getting blown to smithereens, and since there is no other unit that can fight planes, you can't defend your air force while building it up. 

There's a difference between knowingly avoiding the all planes route, and not being able to go the all planes route. Learn that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Joel James said:

Because once your air force gets to a low enough count, it's gg. There is no way to rebuild your air force without it getting blown to smithereens, and since there is no other unit that can fight planes, you can't defend your air force while building it up. 

There's a difference between knowingly avoiding the all planes route, and not being able to go the all planes route. Learn that.

Okay, what do you suggest to counter the imbalance this will give to whales? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with planes, tbh, is that the build rate on planes is way too low. Tanks are roughly 2-3 days, since tanks are expensive and used only as far as the enemy uses it, but planes take a full 6 days to max and aren't really usable at low levels.

 

One indirect nerf to planes would simply to be to lower the planemax from 18 per AFB to 15 per AFB. Or make it so that you can build 4 planes per AFB per day, but limit it to 5 buys.

 

Would make resistance a lot more fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The initial experience of people fighting a serious war is, holy f-, planes are so imbalanced! The medium-term experience, however, is that planes take too long to build and replace. That's an addressable issue. Since planes are the god of war, people are usually only combat effective when planes are involved, and when you've been deplaned, you end up sitting in beige for days until you can max planes again.

 

An alternate solution would be to make planes build much faster as well as get destroyed faster. Say, if planes were 3 days build like soldiers, only 2 beiges would be enough to completely replenish one's planes, and only 1 beige if one kept some of their planes or based on the plane buy. It would, however, make warfare much more inclined to blockade holds, which are really obnoxious forms of warfare..

Edited by Inst

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Okay, what do you suggest to counter the imbalance this will give to whales? 

the counter to us is the fact that there are about 80-100 of us and 5000 of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

the counter to us is the fact that there are about 80-100 of us and 5000 of you.

Don't be deliberately obtuse, the look doesn't suit you.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I'd just like to see more variety in military units. Different types of planes would be nice as well, if you could make bombers which do extra much infra damage; although less effective at fighting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

the counter to us is the fact that there are about 80-100 of us and 5000 of you.

Numerical supremacy only works against whales because of planes as they are and even then 90% of the time the smaller Nations lose more, via infra losses and loot. Nerfing planes removes the effectiveness of that tactic and makes whales pretty much untouchable. Hence my question of " what do you suggest to counter the imbalance this will give to whales?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex has to fix the issue with planes, the simple and I believe best answer would be a anti air project, simply put an attacker will lose 2.5% of his attacking plans for every 1k land maxed at 5k land.

Watch all those who pretty much only win wars due to the fact they have more nations and therefore more just planes, after the first round is pretty cheap and an easy win.

even the war today no one reports how many ships, tanks, nukes, men or such a nation has every single topic is about plane count, if that does not tell you how over powered they are then something wrong with you.

 

Edited by Elijah Mikaelson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t really think planes need to be nerfed, but like the idea of specialized units. Although with any change he needs careful not to ruin the usefulness of planes.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

Alex has to fix the issue with planes, the simple and I believe best answer would be a anti air project, simply put an attacker will lose 2.5% of his attacking plans for every 1k land maxed at 5k land.

Watch all those who pretty much only win wars due to the fact they have more nations and therefore more just planes, after the first round is pretty cheap and an easy win.


No. This will effectively make updeclaring against whales effectively impossible to coordinate under any meaningful period of time. I'm also not sure who you're trying to fool here.

 

On 5/26/2019 at 6:13 PM, The Mad Titan said:

Or leave them be because planes aren’t unbalanced in the context of having a unique role in the war meta. 

This is correct. Leave it be.

Edited by Dio Brando
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Dio Brando said:


No. This will effectively make updeclaring against whales effectively impossible to coordinate under any meaningful period of time. I'm also not sure who you're trying to fool here.

 

Or you could grow and match these "whales" instead of being at 17 cities for 2000 days ?, who knows many ways to play the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They will stop complaining when all of NPO's 150 nations are sitting on 25 cities and they can easily wipe out the whales with proper activity and coordination.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

They will stop complaining when all of NPO's 150 nations are sitting on 25 cities and they can easily wipe out the whales with proper activity and coordination.

So instead we should reward inactivity and zero co-ordination? 
Let's not forget that it was politics of the game that enforced NPO to keep to tiers and a plane heavy strategy. NPO was not allowed to grow upper tiers/whales and so used the games design to give it a more balanced battlefield. 

If the above was true, I'd agree changes would be needed to stop one group becoming untouchable, but that reality is years away from happening and not certain, and well time is on your side to use politics and the game mechanics to your advantage, you can use that same activity and co-ordination you claim NPO has, that plenty in this game possess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

They will stop complaining when all of NPO's 150 nations are sitting on 25 cities and they can easily wipe out the whales with proper activity and coordination.

25 to 40 is a 60% updeclare. Generally updeclares like that are insanely aggressive and liable to fail. IIRC, you did get hit by 24 city people, but you also got hit by 28 city people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the Guidelines of the game and community.