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Alex

5/8/2019 - 2 New National Projects, Improved City Growth, Increased Daily Login Bonus

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7 minutes ago, Alex said:

Your argument also just isn't logical. How they be so useless no one will buy them AND cause market prices to increase because people are saving up to buy them? Both of things cannot be true. 

 

Early adopters baby! gotta have the latest and greatest, costs be damned! 

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I think it's worth noting Alex that most newer players in smaller nations will probably not reach even city 20 anytime within the next 6 months. Many of them regardless of if they reach city 20 ever will never make it to 25. 

Though the pop refactor was huge. For a little alliance like mine that runs 100/0, and is mostly mid-tier nations of middling ages, the weekly income shot up by 38%. Thanks Alex :P

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

 

What 5% are you talking about?

 

AlexLast Monday at 6:40 PM

 
 
@Monkey・D ・Legendary I set it up so that the 5% discount applies after the projects

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@Alex you didn't considered that to buy them you need to make 223M + 453M with a small nation, and to do that you have to stay a year (or maybe more if there are wars) at a low city count, better making cities normally and increase the revenue, in that way you can also save two vital project slots

The only way to make this work is to get a 700M loan from your alliance, make your projects around city 10, and repay it 1 or 2 years later, if you can find an alliance that does that with 95% of new players that quit before the first year it must be Pantheon

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If you look at it as an individual trying to pay this off the moment its an option, yes it's daunting. It's the same price as their next few cities combined, though it does make the next city itself free and pays itself off a few cities later. This game, however is a team based game. You should be in an alliance by the point of 11 cities. That alliance should be helping you grow. It's much easier for an alliance to pay off this debt to help their nation grow quicker which makes them a more productive and strong member of their alliance. Alliances often run city growth programs in one form or another. If you spent the couple hundred mil in a player growing when the project comes out your alliance saves the cost quickly over their next few city purchase.

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7 hours ago, Alex said:

I think you're over-estimating the costs of the project, and also not considering the large income boosts from the population growth modifier change, as well as the increased daily login bonus. Here are the numbers at current market prices, after the market has spiked in response to the update (I expect prices will settle a bit lower than this in a couple of days.)

City Planning

image.png

 

Advanced City Planning

image.png

I definitely overestimated the cost, by a lot. But it’s still ridiculous to expect city 11 nations to even bother getting the first project, as just the food alone right now would cost them 100 million. That was what I was trying to say.

 

Just to clarify, I personally don’t mind the prices, as I can finally use the resources I’ve been hoarding around, and new features are always welcome in a static text-based game like PnW.

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My alliance is growing cities ASAP and is a non-mass recruitment/invite AA with 100/0 tax.

 

We don’t need these projects yet. Despite the 11 and 16 City requirement, my bois are better off making refined resources and raws/buying cities and infra than getting these projects. This is some extra cash lying around stuff. I am glad that it happened for their sake though. Now the guys with refined resource projects  aren’t wasting slots.

We don’t necessarily care for the saved money (on cities). We’re more interested in growing our city count, warchests, and military projects quickly.

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First of all, let me say how funny I find it that people are complaining about the cost of the projects, If you buy the first project at city 11 now, by the time you hit city 20 you saved yourself 450m for a project that costs you 200m, if at city 16 you buy the Adv project by city 20 you saved 400m on a project that cost you 400m so city 21 is 100m profit. sorry, it boggles my mind how people see the cost and shot how can we afford it without looking at the saving you will make.

@Alex my question to you does Domestic Policy Technological Advancement (you receive a 5% discount on National Project costs.) Work and is it 5% of all resources?

Edited by Elijah Mikaelson

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11 hours ago, Alex said:

The best part about national projects is that they're optional. If you don't want to buy them, or don't think they're cost effective, then just pretend they don't exist. You're not harmed in any way.

Your argument also just isn't logical. How they be so useless no one will buy them AND cause market prices to increase because people are saving up to buy them? Both of things cannot be true.

I had no plans on buying it anyway since I stopped buying cities a year ago. My point was there is no benefit to the project therefore it is useless mechanically., so whats the point of it. The "its optional" point is a rather silly counter argument unless your saying adding things that have no purpose is a good thing now.

I was under the impression you were going to add the cost of cities over 20 with additional raws, that was what I'm referring to when I said the market would adjust and prices would increase. If you don't plan on doing that, then I retract my statement and have no problem with these projects. Doing both would have the effect I described.

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19 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

First of all, let me say how funny I find it that people are complaining about the cost of the projects, If you buy the first project at city 11 now, by the time you hit city 20 you saved yourself 450m for a project that costs you 200m, if at city 16 you buy the Adv project by city 20 you saved 400m on a project that cost you 400m so city 21 is 100m profit. sorry, it boggles my mind how people see the cost and shot how can we afford it without looking at the saving you will make.

@Alex my question to you does Domestic Policy Technological Advancement (you receive a 5% discount on National Project costs.) Work and is it 5% of all resources?

It boggles my mind how people forget most city 11s won't reach city 20, at all, period, let alone anytime soon. 

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40 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

It boggles my mind how people forget most city 11s won't reach city 20, at all, period, let alone anytime soon. 

That would be down to the person or the alliance they join, it is more than possible for anyone to reach 20 cities if they tried, Even big alliances like NPO, BK and others can easily go to 20 cities but they have chosen not too. so that would be why we have fewer people at 20 cities. Even you made it to 20 cities so anyone has the chance.

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22 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

That would be down to the person or the alliance they join, it is more than possible for anyone to reach 20 cities if they tried, Even big alliances like NPO, BK and others can easily go to 20 cities but they have chosen not too. so that would be why we have fewer people at 20 cities. Even you made it to 20 cities so anyone has the chance.

To get all of NPO to 20 cities, assuming that they are all at 17 now (rough average) would cost 712$ million per person on manifest dynasty - x151 nations and its a grand total of 107 billion, which is a pretty significant amount of money if you ask me.

Obviously its possible but I think Akruyo was referring to people leaving more than not being able to grow etc plus most people are involved in wars which slow down development and you don't seem to be doing that which gives you a big advantage on growth compared to most of us who aren't well; pixel hugging.

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4 hours ago, Hariff said:

To get all of NPO to 20 cities, assuming that they are all at 17 now (rough average) would cost 712$ million per person on manifest dynasty - x151 nations and its a grand total of 107 billion, which is a pretty significant amount of money if you ask me.

Obviously its possible but I think Akruyo was referring to people leaving more than not being able to grow etc plus most people are involved in wars which slow down development and you don't seem to be doing that which gives you a big advantage on growth compared to most of us who aren't well; pixel hugging.

Well not so sure about being a pixel hugger, I mean I've lost 7k infra less than you and destroyed 16k more than you, so yeah i guess you can say I am a pixel hugger, or that I am not in an alliance that tries to police PnW and get a slap for it.

107 billion is nothing to an alliance such as NPO, On avg a NPO would clear about 1.4 billion a day in cash (not taken in to account resources) with the build they have at 2573 cities So within 100 days they could easy make 140 billion and push all nations to 20 cities.

As for people leaving, people leave they get bored and its mainly down to the war system than anything to do with growth.
 

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On 5/9/2019 at 6:48 PM, Elijah Mikaelson said:


@Alex my question to you does Domestic Policy Technological Advancement (you receive a 5% discount on National Project costs.) Work and is it 5% of all resources?

Yes, that is correct.

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On 5/9/2019 at 2:11 PM, Prefontaine said:

If you look at it as an individual trying to pay this off the moment its an option, yes it's daunting. It's the same price as their next few cities combined, though it does make the next city itself free and pays itself off a few cities later. This game, however is a team based game. You should be in an alliance by the point of 11 cities. That alliance should be helping you grow. It's much easier for an alliance to pay off this debt to help their nation grow quicker which makes them a more productive and strong member of their alliance. Alliances often run city growth programs in one form or another. If you spent the couple hundred mil in a player growing when the project comes out your alliance saves the cost quickly over their next few city purchase.

Or, alternatively, they could pick up a far cheaper econ project and make money from manufacturing or even farming and see faster returns anyway, paying for their own new cities rather than relying on alliance grants that could be entirely lost due to inactivity/betrayal/banking. Or even better, pick up the military projects (IA, PB, maybe CCE MLP MLP MLP) with their, let's say 3 project slots at a 1500 infra build, and then raid for fun and potentially serious economic returns. Each of which are investments that can be gotten cheaper, pay off faster, and risk their alliance far far less than dropping about a bil on every c11 applicant that comes their way. It's a matter of risk management as much as it is efficient growth, and project slots are an opportunity cost: City planning means giving up a slot that could be used for IA, PB, manufacturing project, etc, so every calculation involving the planning project needs to take that into account.

On 5/10/2019 at 11:56 AM, Akuryo said:

It boggles my mind how people forget most city 11s won't reach city 20, at all, period, let alone anytime soon. 

Or how people forget that there's cheaper, safer, and quicker ways to make money off project slots than city planning.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot

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If you don't like these projects don't get them.  If they push resource prices up it'll reach an equilibrium where fewer people get the projects.  It gives people options and that's a good thing, especially for alliances doing targeted growth.

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