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Some Thoughts


Dio Brando
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Too long, skimmed it, was also very preachy.

 

Are we grilling Pre here? Did Pre say something that needed to be flesh out as a post?

we need a tl:dr

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Good read.

To add my two cents, even being the good guy is more fun when you're willing to take a risk or two and doesn't explicitly rule out the role antagonizing another player or sphere. 

Sometimes the good thing to do is push back when conventional wisdom says that's a fine way to get your teeth punched in. 

In fact some of the most compelling villains in fiction are those who have absolutely no doubt that they are doing the "right" thing. So the line between good and evil can be pretty damn hard to parse out - but on either side you shouldn't be afraid to test a boundary here or there if necessary. 

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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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10 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

In fact some of the most compelling villains in fiction are those who have absolutely no doubt that they are doing the "right" thing. So the line between good and evil can be pretty damn hard to parse out - but on either side you shouldn't be afraid to test a boundary here or there if necessary. 

53f.png

The villain motive hierarchy meme actually kind of works here ?

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Kitsune magics are fun~

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4 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

eAHrdFc.gif

The perfect character to personify TEst in a lot of ways imo. Maybe a little too "goodie goodie" though. 

9 minutes ago, Illenium said:

The villain motive hierarchy meme actually kind of works here ?

This game relies on role playing in a large part to be interesting - and role playing relies on compelling villains to be interesting so it seems natural to me that it would. ?

Edited by Sisyphus
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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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I don’t RP, I go hard and blow bags in real life too.

Edited by 86’d

“I'm cheap and enjoy butchering” - Manthrax

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson

A leader of an alliance generally is the good guy or the bad guy depending the outcome of the fight, If they win the big fight if you will then be the good guy to your own however a bad guy to those who lost, No one is simply a good guy or a bad guy with PnW, It just depends on what side of the Hail house bars you stand.

I am pretty unknown by most, However a few hate me due to what they have been told or who they follow, those who have taken the time to get to know me will tell another story of how I am, As I said someone is not simply a Villian due to you only seeing one side of the picture. Many never take the time to see both sides, they are generally to blind to see both halves.

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11 hours ago, Illenium said:

53f.png

The villain motive hierarchy meme actually kind of works here ?

This is a conversation I have often with friends. In regards to written characters, not PnW personalities.

The modern day idea that a villain needs a sympathetic motivation to be a well-written character is more of a meme than anything backed up by serious argument.

 

I would contend than a truly evil character does not have understandable or sympathetic motivations. Tywin Lannister has nothing sympathetic about his motivations and is one of the best written and acted characters in recent memory. He would fall under the "shit tier" in this image, lusting for power. The Emperor from the original Star Wars trilogy is another example of a pure evil character with no motivations other than "shit tier" but is his effect not just as powerful? The Joker from the recent Batman movie? Ramsay Bolton? The Elder Gods from the Lovecraft universe? Thanos? Voldermort? Sauron? 

 

True evil, sadistic behavior, and a careless disregard for life are all things that resonate with people when they read/watch/encounter a true villain. Genuine good versus pure evil is a theme that dates back to time immemorial and there's a reason that's the case. Sympathetic villains are the exception, not the norm.

 

 

 

To tie this into PnW - you don't need a mechanical reason from the game nor a grudge held from some slight to decide to "be the villain." If you can think of something interesting to do, then do it.

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13 hours ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

A leader of an alliance generally is the good guy or the bad guy depending the outcome of the fight, If they win the big fight if you will then be the good guy to your own however a bad guy to those who lost, No one is simply a good guy or a bad guy with PnW, It just depends on what side of the Hail house bars you stand.

I am pretty unknown by most, However a few hate me due to what they have been told or who they follow, those who have taken the time to get to know me will tell another story of how I am, As I said someone is not simply a Villian due to you only seeing one side of the picture. Many never take the time to see both sides, they are generally to blind to see both halves.

I feel like you are confusing rivalries and villains. Being someone's rival does not make the other a villain. 

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FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY

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On 5/8/2019 at 11:27 AM, Bartholomew Roberts said:

This is a conversation I have often with friends. In regards to written characters, not PnW personalities.

The modern day idea that a villain needs a sympathetic motivation to be a well-written character is more of a meme than anything backed up by serious argument.

 

I would contend than a truly evil character does not have understandable or sympathetic motivations. Tywin Lannister has nothing sympathetic about his motivations and is one of the best written and acted characters in recent memory. He would fall under the "shit tier" in this image, lusting for power. The Emperor from the original Star Wars trilogy is another example of a pure evil character with no motivations other than "shit tier" but is his effect not just as powerful? The Joker from the recent Batman movie? Ramsay Bolton? The Elder Gods from the Lovecraft universe? Thanos? Voldermort? Sauron? 

 

True evil, sadistic behavior, and a careless disregard for life are all things that resonate with people when they read/watch/encounter a true villain. Genuine good versus pure evil is a theme that dates back to time immemorial and there's a reason that's the case. Sympathetic villains are the exception, not the norm.

 

 

 

To tie this into PnW - you don't need a mechanical reason from the game nor a grudge held from some slight to decide to "be the villain." If you can think of something interesting to do, then do it.

Tywin had reasons, he was protecting his family. 

The Emperor is a bad guy we see in 1 movie, the real bad guy is Darth Vader who is corrupted and turns good at the end(spoiler alert).

Thanos, Voldermort, and Sauron all had reasonings when you read the books.

 

Very few characters in writing do things for no reason. 

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IMG_2989.png?ex=65e9efa9&is=65d77aa9&hm=

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4 hours ago, Kastor said:

Tywin had reasons, he was protecting his family. 

The Emperor is a bad guy we see in 1 movie, the real bad guy is Darth Vader who is corrupted and turns good at the end(spoiler alert).

Thanos, Voldermort, and Sauron all had reasonings when you read the books.

 

Very few characters in writing do things for no reason. 

You've used multiple different examples that each have their own explanation but ultimately when you analyze these arguably iconic villains you'll find their motivations fall under what a lot of critics would call "shit tier" motivation.

I think if you look deeper into these you'll see that, despite any dialogue that the villain would use to justify themselves, each one of their motivations are all selfish/"shit tier" according to the chart.

 

 

 

Also did you really just say Sauron had justified or empathetic motivations? The literal embodiment of evil in the Lord of the Rings has justified or empathetic motivations?

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When did this become a book club? 

The Emperor and Sauron aren't compelling because they are nuanced, you're right, but they aren't compelling because they aren't nuanced either. They're compelling because their ability to consolidate and generate power is almost insurmountable. They are more an environmental factor (a tough mountain for the hero to climb -literally- in LotR) than an actual character. 

But in this game "playing the villain" isn't as simple or easy as that, if that's what you're going for. 

Edit: The closest thing this game could probably get to Sauron is a non-player controlled mob-spawner. 

Edited by Sisyphus
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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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55 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

When did this become a book club? 

The Emperor and Sauron aren't compelling because they are nuanced, you're right, but they aren't compelling because they aren't nuanced either. They're compelling because their ability to consolidate and generate power is almost insurmountable. They are more an environmental factor (a tough mountain for the hero to climb -literally- in LotR) than an actual character. 

But in this game "playing the villain" isn't as simple or easy as that, if that's what you're going for. 

Edit: The closest thing this game could probably get to Sauron is a non-player controlled mob-spawner. 

The beauty of this game is that if you can convince fools to join you in a war, then you don't need to be powerful in your own right.

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