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SYNDICATE, INC. EXITS TWO RELIGIOUS FUNDS


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4 hours ago, Buorhann said:

While I'd agree with you about the "years of friendship" bit - you did fight TKR, Guardian, and TCW.  And Pantheon is far from what it was back when relations were established (In fact, most of Pantheon that you became friends with are in TCW, or elsewhere now).

I honestly don't have a real problem with the 30 day protection as it is on face value.

I just find it ridiculous to be setting that kind of precedent now.  It could've been ANY alliance tie and I'd have been like "wtf".

Most of The Syndicate that Pantheon first became friends with have moved on, too. That's just what online communities do over 4 years.

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30 minutes ago, Avakael said:

Most of The Syndicate that Pantheon first became friends with have moved on, too. That's just what online communities do over 4 years.

Yeah, they moved on to TCW for the most part.  I'm well aware of who we affiliated ourselves with, and who I personally worked with while I was in both Mensa and Syndicate, and leading Syndisphere.

As I said, Pantheon as an alliance is completely different - especially after Fist left (again).  All what you two are claiming is the alliance name itself has been familiar.

EDIT:  This is a pointless argument though.  So I'll just stop here with that.

Sorry, misread, you're right on the Syndicate side of it too.  Press F for the OG crew

Edited by Buorhann
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Good luck to all.

36 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

I honestly don't see this keeping them as an ally for the next 30 days thing as a big deal. If it's the price to pay for breaking up the sphere-ish gridlock, that's a low cost in my opinion. I've not seen anything indicating that there's plans to keep a secret tie to them in the future which separates this from the recent similar thing with TKR.

The biggest differences I see between this and TKR's split with TCW are that TKR's split happened first, and that Rose apparently initiated this drop from their side. I don't see much proof either involves a secret tie.

(It's a little odd, considering points you've made about old leaders needing to let go of old grudges for the game's overall health, that you keep badgering TKR about stuff you don't know anything about while supposedly being retired.)

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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15 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Good luck to all.

The biggest differences I see between this and TKR's split with TCW are that TKR's split happened first, and that Rose apparently initiated this drop from their side. I don't see much proof either involves a secret tie.

(It's a little odd, considering points you've made about old leaders needing to let go of old grudges for the game's overall health, that you keep badgering TKR about stuff you don't know anything about while supposedly being retired.)

Lmao did Pre retire and un-retire again? I really like the dynamic that Pre adds to the game, but I think he's "retired" only to un-retire and become a major player MULTIPLE times at this point. He's the Brett Farve of P&W.
 

Edited by MRBOOTY
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30 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

(It's a little odd, considering points you've made about old leaders needing to let go of old grudges for the game's overall health, that you keep badgering TKR about stuff you don't know anything about while supposedly being retired.)

Not retired from playing, but retired from leading alliances/politics and taking part in that aspect of the game. Last I checked I'm more than welcome to comment and voice my thoughts. You seem to be very concerned about my activity levels for some strange reason as this is the second time you've brought it up, and are the only one. (OOC wise I have been on here more lately due to a medical thing which I'm waiting on surgery for. Been passing some time on here since my presence is seemingly important to you)

As for TKR this is the first time I've really singled them out for anything since at least February, good or bad. I don't really care about the alliance attached, but when I'm speaking about secret treaties and there's a very current example of that possibility it'd be sort of asinine to not mention it. I also said that the move isn't honorable, but it could make it interesting. There wasn't even really hostility in that sentiment. You seem to be imagining things there. Perhaps you're the one with a bias against me and that's skewing your assessment? Usually your digs or posts have some accuracy, however for whatever reason this time you're grasping at non-existent straws. Chalk it up to tone not being conveyed over text versus voice oI suppose?

10 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

That is quite possibly the best analogy for Pre.

Let me sell you some jeans. 

 

EDIT: To carry on Booty's analogy. I've switched from playing on the field to commentating in the booth. 

Edited by Prefontaine
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Maybe Pantheon should have an election anyone can run in, but only they can vote on the winner. Maybe they'll get the change they need with a new leader; who presents a platform & thinks there is still hope for them with the right leadership; as well as is able to get the most votes from Pantheon members who care enough to vote.

If its an open process & brings in a fresh leadership perspective; maybe that could change what many people think of Pantheon. Sounds drastic maybe; although they might be at a point where they need to try something unprecedented. Unless they have somebody internally with some kind of vision on what to do with them, able to form connections, lead & wants to accomplish something as leader. Rather than just be a placeholder.

Members in Pantheon could maybe run as well; depending on how the election would go at least Pantheon could potentially become interesting and a major political player. If it doesn't go well; they're not in a great spot now anyways. Change at the leadership level seems to be what they might need, but not more coups. A legimitate transfer of power by vote might boost confidence in their gov and ensure they have people with drive as well as ability leading running it. (Maybe an election is what The Emperor should have done to begin with when he wanted to step down; rather than pick somebody mostly unknown).

Although not a big deal to me what Pantheon decides, just an idea on how to get qualified leader the alliance will accept & rest of the game more likely to give him a chance before assuming he'll fail. ?

Edit: Although I wouldn't really be interested in running myself; although sure there are a lot of people qualified to lead who haven't got the chance if they're having a leadership vacuum. If only they can vote; wouldn't need to pick an outsider if they have a better internal candidate.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum
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9 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Not retired from playing, but retired from leading alliances/politics and taking part in that aspect of the game. Last I checked I'm more than welcome to comment and voice my thoughts. You seem to be very concerned about my activity levels for some strange reason as this is the second time you've brought it up, and are the only one. (OOC wise I have been on here more lately due to a medical thing which I'm waiting on surgery for. Been passing some time on here since my presence is seemingly important to you)

As for TKR this is the first time I've really singled them out for anything since at least February, good or bad. I don't really care about the alliance attached, but when I'm speaking about secret treaties and there's a very current example of that possibility it'd be sort of asinine to not mention it. I also said that the move isn't honorable, but it could make it interesting. There wasn't even really hostility in that sentiment. You seem to be imagining things there. Perhaps you're the one with a bias against me and that's skewing your assessment? Usually your digs or posts have some accuracy, however for whatever reason this time you're grasping at non-existent straws. Chalk it up to tone not being conveyed over text versus voice oI suppose?

Let me sell you some jeans. 

 

EDIT: To carry on Booty's analogy. I've switched from playing on the field to commentating in the booth. 

There's a lot to unpack here so I guess I'll move from flippant quips to a bit more detail. You're probably right about tone playing a role here.

I didn't intend to imply you oughtn't make comments. You absolutely should, irrespective of whether I agree with them (though obviously I have the same ability to state I disagree with you). I didn't understand what you meant by retired (I think you have retired before and were less forum active then?), and I'm coming from a place where, generally, when someone says they're retiring it's to do better things than play a mostly crappy nation simulator, so I am usually happy for them despite missing what they bring to the game. In an OOC sense, though, I am more than happy to debate with you if you're stuck hanging around...that shit is rarely fun. I had a pretty minor surgery last year and it still knocked me on my ass for a while, so I really do hope you have a quick recovery! 

I am biased against you, yes, and you know the reason. I don't think it's skewing my judgement. I would say the fact that you have a bias against TKR is pretty much a matter of public record, at this point. More to the point of what I was quoting: the idea that there's no hostility/bias in drawing a different conclusion from similar situations when one of them involves TKR is a pretty clear indicator, I would think. But if there's no substance to what I'm saying, no one will believe it and I'll look silly, so I don't see the issue really.

Edited by Spaceman Thrax

Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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19 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

There's a lot to unpack here so I guess I'll move from flippant quips to a bit more detail. You're probably right about tone playing a role here.

I didn't intend to imply you oughtn't make comments. You absolutely should, irrespective of whether I agree with them (though obviously I have the same ability to state I disagree with you). I didn't understand what you meant by retired (I think you have retired before and were less forum active then?), and I'm coming from a place where, generally, when someone says they're retiring it's to do better things than play a mostly crappy nation simulator, so I am usually happy for them despite missing what they bring to the game. In an OOC sense, though, I am more than happy to debate with you if you're stuck hanging around though...that shit is rarely fun. I had a pretty minor surgery last year and it still knocked me on my ass for a while, so I really do hope you have a quick recovery! 

I am biased against you, yes, and you know the reason. I don't think it's skewing my judgement. I would say the fact that you have a bias against TKR is pretty much a matter of public record, at this point. More to the point of what I was quoting: the idea that there's no hostility/bias in drawing a different conclusion from similar situations when one of them involves TKR is a pretty clear indicator, I would think. But if there's no substance to what I'm saying, no one will believe it and I'll look silly, so I don't see the issue really.

Even in his post where he was saying people should find new allies to be dynamic, he did mention TKR by name as trying it and doing it wrong. So I doubt he'll claim he's not biased against them. Although personally I didn't even pay any attention to the forum until the TKR War was already ongoing for a long time; so guess I never had the chance to develop much of a negative opinion of them. Since they were getting rolled and I kind of like their talk on purposely making the game more fun; even if I think its a bit idealist to think others won't just try winning however they can. Although sometimes I like being an idealist. :P

(Although doubt the rest of BK feels the same way; although I think opinions of them have cooled for the most part. I've heard some say they think CHAOS wants to roll us; although I'm not so sure. If they wanted to take us down; would just put NPO and Syndicate at top; with everyone else in the top rankings pushed down more.  So will be interesting to see how things go & if more former enemies become friends or we see repeat of old grudges. Although if they do hate us as much as I've heard from one person at least;  I probably should be fanning the flames against them; rather than give them any credit. However I think if BK cares about being dynamic and keeping stuff interesting, with TKR sphere caring about the same; might be good to have a workable enough relation we'd be able to work together if the web gets to tangled with alliances wanting to create a permanent and unbeatable hegemony. Think Pre was pretty clear his goal with the war was to take down TKR and then get rid of IQ; so not much of a secret.

What will be interesting to see is if TKR's allies are able to get secure enough within a month they don't need help and whether those allies are hit to see if it will bait TKR into war; with how much people don't like TKR keeping their old ties in tact.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum
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1 minute ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

 Think Pre was pretty clear his goal with the war was to take down TKR and then get rid of IQ; so not much of a secret.

I mean I shared similar goals here: the game had an upper tier and a lower tier gridlock, and I tried some different things to get them broken apart. That's my concern about Pre: TKR has demonstrated a commitment to breaking that gridlock, and as such I think old grudges need to pass a pressure test, or become counterproductive. Without any substance to his claim about secret treaties (and being virtually sure they don't exist, having been involved in so much of this process), that is how I see it.

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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58 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

(Although doubt the rest of BK feels the same way; although I think opinions of them have cooled for the most part. I've heard some say they think CHAOS wants to roll us; although I'm not so sure. If they wanted to take us down; would just put NPO and Syndicate at top; with everyone else in the top rankings pushed down more.  So will be interesting to see how things go & if more former enemies become friends or we see repeat of old grudges. Although if they do hate us as much as I've heard from one person at least;  I probably should be fanning the flames against them; rather than give them any credit. However I think if BK cares about being dynamic and keeping stuff interesting, with TKR sphere caring about the same; might be good to have a workable enough relation we'd be able to work together if the web gets to tangled with alliances wanting to create a permanent and unbeatable hegemony. 

I'm glad to hear things have cooled within BK. The split on BK's part looks like a move in a positive direction in terms of a more exciting political meta. In terms of grudges, I think working past those is something everyone could do better on.

Since the war ended while neither alliance has done a perfect job of being amicable with each other, (TKR has made some unnecessary pokes and BK has uh... looks at the name of the black color bloc) people seem to be moving in a better direction than before the war.

So yeah there is certainly room for improvement and with any luck it will improve.

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12 hours ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

I would say the fact that you have a bias against TKR is pretty much a matter of public record, at this point. More to the point of what I was quoting: the idea that there's no hostility/bias in drawing a different conclusion from similar situations when one of them involves TKR is a pretty clear indicator, I would think. 

I'll go on the record as saying I have no problem with TKR anymore. I worked out any issues I had with them during the last war. As an alliance leader I didn't give myself the luxury of avoiding people I didn't want to deal with, because you never know when you'll need to work with them, or against them. As a player however I can avoid whomever I want. The only people I don't like on a degree which I would have an impacting bias against are on my ignore list and I never have to interact with them. It's nice. Makes me enjoy interacting with the community a bit more. The only reason I brought up TKR is because they were rumored to be involved with the whole keeping secret treaties thing. 

 

If TKR is only doing it for a limited period, like a month as others are, I've said that's fine and it makes sense to me. I get not wanting to leave a former ally dangling in the wind as you move towards a new path. If they plan on keeping that secret line there for a long period of time, well then it's a bit disingenuous to cancel it -- as I put it "less honorable". If anything the alliances who are making these moves to break things up have my respect, rather than any negative feelings. 

 

While it might be hard to take my change in tone seriously due to my past, know that I was playing a character. Were aspects of myself in there? Sure, often over the top and exaggerated aspects, but I don't need to play the villain anymore. I don't need to goad people into things. This is why I get the misunderstanding in tone. People are used to dealing with me in a certain light -- or being a troll. That will be greatly reduced unless it's just for fun (like with Partisan in Syndicate's discord the other morning). Otherwise I get to just be a retired old man sippin' my whiskey.

 

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10 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

Or perhaps send an inappropriate picture. Don’t shortchange Beerhoe.

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2 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

-snip-

Now that Partisan is gone, I'm pretty sure you take the cake as the new OWF wall of text-er. 

Unless he returns and posts a flex wall. (not nudging or anything)

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On 4/10/2019 at 12:20 AM, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Maybe Pantheon should have an election anyone can run in, but only they can vote on the winner. Maybe they'll get the change they need with a new leader; who presents a platform & thinks there is still hope for them with the right leadership; as well as is able to get the most votes from Pantheon members who care enough to vote.

If its an open process & brings in a fresh leadership perspective; maybe that could change what many people think of Pantheon. Sounds drastic maybe; although they might be at a point where they need to try something unprecedented. Unless they have somebody internally with some kind of vision on what to do with them, able to form connections, lead & wants to accomplish something as leader. Rather than just be a placeholder.

Members in Pantheon could maybe run as well; depending on how the election would go at least Pantheon could potentially become interesting and a major political player. If it doesn't go well; they're not in a great spot now anyways. Change at the leadership level seems to be what they might need, but not more coups. A legimitate transfer of power by vote might boost confidence in their gov and ensure they have people with drive as well as ability leading running it. (Maybe an election is what The Emperor should have done to begin with when he wanted to step down; rather than pick somebody mostly unknown).

Although not a big deal to me what Pantheon decides, just an idea on how to get qualified leader the alliance will accept & rest of the game more likely to give him a chance before assuming he'll fail. ?

Edit: Although I wouldn't really be interested in running myself; although sure there are a lot of people qualified to lead who haven't got the chance if they're having a leadership vacuum. If only they can vote; wouldn't need to pick an outsider if they have a better internal candidate.

You're assuming people competent enough will run lmfao, I'm ex-pantheon and the biggest struggle of the alliance was finding active people who knew what they were doing/willing to listen to advice who want to help out in government/in the alliance. People sit in pantheon and do nothing, majority of the alliance. The majority of the remaining have absolutely no idea how to play the game, the only half competent ones are currently in government.

Fist did more than just choose the new leader wrong. He streamlined somebody into his high government econ who's making policies that don't benefit the alliance (i.e. fully stepping away from raiding no matter the city count) and then he chooses this new leader who is unknown, at 5 cities at the time of leader transfer. Who then proceeds to use alliance funds to boost himself to 10 cities and being granted further. The second oldest government member at the time (slightly younger than fist) leaves because he was the workhorse of the alliance, officially the FA high gov but did a lot more than that. Fists choices forced out FA and milcom high gov, IA low gov gets promoted to milcom high gov, ia high gov coups then fails (lmao) and the IA low gov remains as milcom highgov. Does that sound like a stable government that is familiar with their roles? No, and meanwhile the new econ person (after the other econ person who lost their promotion to this new person resigns) is forced through and becomes and 2nd in command without any discussion from the other high gov members.

The nail in the coffin is that this is the best option for pantheon unless others step up

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

You're assuming people competent enough will run lmfao, I'm ex-pantheon and the biggest struggle of the alliance was finding active people who knew what they were doing/willing to listen to advice who want to help out in government/in the alliance. People sit in pantheon and do nothing, majority of the alliance. The majority of the remaining have absolutely no idea how to play the game, the only half competent ones are currently in government.

Fist did more than just choose the new leader wrong. He streamlined somebody into his high government econ who's making policies that don't benefit the alliance (i.e. fully stepping away from raiding no matter the city count) and then he chooses this new leader who is unknown, at 5 cities at the time of leader transfer. Who then proceeds to use alliance funds to boost himself to 10 cities and being granted further. The second oldest government member at the time (slightly younger than fist) leaves because he was the workhorse of the alliance, officially the FA high gov but did a lot more than that. Fists choices forced out FA and milcom high gov, IA low gov gets promoted to milcom high gov, ia high gov coups then fails (lmao) and the IA low gov remains as milcom highgov. Does that sound like a stable government that is familiar with their roles? No, and meanwhile the new econ person (after the other econ person who lost their promotion to this new person resigns) is forced through and becomes and 2nd in command without any discussion from the other high gov members.

The nail in the coffin is that this is the best option for pantheon unless others step up

 

 

 

I'm sorry this stepping away from raiding is just hilarious after hearing t$ people go on about how great rawr is.

If you're a new player you can't even get past applicant of my fricking micro without actively raiding, lol.

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46 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

-whinging-

 

No. Kata is not perfect, but all of the changes she made were changes that needed to be made. You can sit there and pretend that you have even the most basic idea of how to run an alliance, but nobody is buying it.

 

Also, raiding is neither the right or wrong way. If your alliance bans raiding and you're a raider, there are plenty of alliances that cater to your playstyle. Move there. Easy. Done. 

Edited by Itachi
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5 minutes ago, Itachi said:

No. Kata is not perfect, but all of the changes she made were changes that needed to be made. You can sit there and pretend that you have even the most basic idea of how to run an alliance, but nobody is buying it.

 

Also, raiding is neither the right or wrong way. If your alliance bans raiding and you're a raider, there are plenty of alliances that cater to your playstyle. Move there. Easy. Done. 

Actually for an alliance like pantheon with internal issues, financial issues, quality of membership issues, etc, it is absolutely the wrong way to not have raiding.

You can sit here and pretend like you have any idea how to run or operate in a government that requires extreme effort just to keep itself breathing let alone anything else - but you don't. 

A simple system like I have (which should be extended to 8 cities at least) saves the alliance money, it performs quality control by rooting out impatient players or people who'd simply quit, people who just want grants, etc. It gives these new players a functional understanding of the war system to build on with an academy, it allows them to experience coordinating raids or counters, and how to effectively build their own cities to maximize efficiency for a certain job (raiding in this case) and why it's so important, so you know later they'll keep to MMR and build warchest because they understand from experience not a Google doc why it's important. It teaches them to handle their own money, their warchests, plan their attacks, it goes on and on the list of benefits.

 

There's more on top of that, too. Infact there's so many benefits to such a system even without an academy that to not use it is incredibly daft, regardless of who you are, unless you're TFP or EE, the latter of which especially admits to being war-evading pixel huggers. 

That's the company you wanna hang with, have fun lol.

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28 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Actually for an alliance like pantheon with internal issues, financial issues, quality of membership issues, etc, it is absolutely the wrong way to not have raiding.

You can sit here and pretend like you have any idea how to run or operate in a government that requires extreme effort just to keep itself breathing let alone anything else - but you don't. 

A simple system like I have (which should be extended to 8 cities at least) saves the alliance money, it performs quality control by rooting out impatient players or people who'd simply quit, people who just want grants, etc. It gives these new players a functional understanding of the war system to build on with an academy, it allows them to experience coordinating raids or counters, and how to effectively build their own cities to maximize efficiency for a certain job (raiding in this case) and why it's so important, so you know later they'll keep to MMR and build warchest because they understand from experience not a Google doc why it's important. It teaches them to handle their own money, their warchests, plan their attacks, it goes on and on the list of benefits.

 

There's more on top of that, too. Infact there's so many benefits to such a system even without an academy that to not use it is incredibly daft, regardless of who you are, unless you're TFP or EE, the latter of which especially admits to being war-evading pixel huggers. 

That's the company you wanna hang with, have fun lol.

I dont see anything that makes requiring raiding necessary. You have your way, and we have ours. We seem to do alright. There is no right or wrong answer to allowing raiding, and if Pantheon has weak internals, why would you want your 100+ members running around trying to raid when over half of them may not even understand the way of the game? That sounds like a headache that nobody needs. If you want to judge them, drop your protection and keep your raiding culture. Do it like TGH, don't be protected and claim that you fight to keep breathing. 

Edited by Itachi
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Raiding does give some exp, but raiding inactives all the time is no war exp.
The way to go is to utilize the test server and have a training academy there, you start with enough funding for more cities and you start with 5. I have been telling pplz for years now.
It has been a change in the mind set of pplz lately and they have started using it, but still the % of alliances utilizing it is low.

I had once an argument with a dude about test server and utilizing it, where he meant it was hard fact that those who try test go inactive, but the real fact is if you go inactive there then it's high probablity of going inactive in real also(during the training phase). 
My exp with test as a training groud is that if you actually can log in and check your nation a few times a day you'll gain valueable exp and your alliance doesn't need to use real funds to tech you game mechanics. it's a win-win situation.

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29 minutes ago, MonkeyDLegend said:

Wall of text

I mean, sure. The test server if good for learning etc. But you should still raid at a low tier. It helps you to get to know the war mechanics a bit, and it earns you a bunch. 

For an alliance like Panth, raiding should be a requirement imo. 

But whatevs, just my opinion folks. /shrug

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If you only ever tell them to raid inactive people you're once again doing it wrong. I've used other micros to practice small scale blitz raids.

Please quit wasting everyone's time arguing that orange juice isn't better than lemonade, cause yah might as well be.

 

Edit: and raiding inactives is still more experience than just throwing a guide at them. There is no argument for having them raid and then throwing guides at them not being better than the former, or there isn't unless you want to be the next element85 or whoever.

Edited by Akuryo
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43 minutes ago, MonkeyDLegend said:

Raiding does give some exp, but raiding inactives all the time is no war exp.

Of course not, but it's a great source of income for people with an alliance bank thats tiny for their size.

Hell its good income regardless smh

Edited by Tartarus
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