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An Ocean Voyage


Roquentin
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44 minutes ago, Avakael said:

I just find it difficult to put people at city 28, 29 and people at city 18, 19 in adjoining tiers. Mentally, I have a sub 20 tier ("middle"), a 26 and up tier ("upper" or "whale"), and a tier in between, where all the fun happens.

The average isn't as useful as Sketchy's numbers, though. For example, The Syndicate AA alone has an average of 23 and a half cities; but if we were to include our applicant AA (which does participate in war), we drop to an average of 20 cities, even though almost everyone on The Syndicate AA is slightly above that. That's why we need individual counts of nations by city.

Upper and whale tier aren't the same. Whale tier is irrelevant unless the enemy has whale tier.

Upper tier is relevant even if the enemy doesn't have upper tier, because unlike whales there's enough upper tier to make downdeclaring a serious massacre.

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3 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Upper and whale tier aren't the same. Whale tier is irrelevant unless the enemy has whale tier.

Upper tier is relevant even if the enemy doesn't have upper tier, because unlike whales there's enough upper tier to make downdeclaring a serious massacre.

I don't really distinguish them in my head. I guess you could split them again around 30, 32 cities or so.

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20 minutes ago, Avakael said:

@Sketchy so I did some numbers, because I could, and I'm trying to get my head around the PnW API for Google Sheets.

Inx9p0f.png

Turns out, it's about the same, but the 60 nation advantage the NPO offers in the middle tier would probably make a significant difference.

Kastor has a screw loose, but you guys aren't that far off.

Also, I just realised that literally the only person in this thread that was arguing that Chaos was overconsolidating in the upper tier is... from Afrika Korps, who has no relation to either t$ or the NPO. So now I feel stupid for weighing in defensively 8 hours ago. Sorry bout that. :V

Hm... looks to me more like KTsphere has about half as many nations in the 25-30 range as Soupsphere but is otherwise nearly identical, which is a pretty serious deficit but could be compensated for. Meanwhile Soupsphere has about half as many nations in the 15-20 range as $phere but is also otherwise nearly identical, which is again a pretty serious deficit but similarly could be compensated for.

Which makes $phere the top statistically, by your own numbers. Though perhaps not by so much... certainly nowhere near game-breaking problem levels yet.

Edit: Either way, good on you for catching yourself about the defensiveness and owning up to it, much respect for that

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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17 minutes ago, Avakael said:

@Sketchy so I did some numbers, because I could, and I'm trying to get my head around the PnW API for Google Sheets.

Inx9p0f.png

Turns out, it's about the same, but the 60 nation advantage the NPO offers in the middle tier would probably make a significant difference.

Kastor has a screw loose, but you guys aren't that far off.

Also, I just realised that literally the only person in this thread that was arguing that Chaos was overconsolidating in the upper tier is... from Afrika Korps, who has no relation to either t$ or the NPO. So now I feel stupid for weighing in defensively 8 hours ago. Sorry bout that. :V

Is rose factored into that? Because they should be. You're counting 2 alliances (E$ and t$ count as one) against 4 and still drawing the same numbers up, and still drawing up largely similar numbers. If you factored in all of rose, their allies and church of atom I'm pretty sure you'd pull a different result. 

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Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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1 minute ago, Bezzers said:

Is rose factored into that? Because they should be. You're counting 2 alliances (E$ and t$ count as one) against 4 and still drawing the same numbers up, and still drawing up largely similar numbers. If you factored in all of rose, their allies and church of atom I'm pretty sure you'd pull a different result. 

Maybe it's omitted because Rose is gonna be dropped and he doesn't want to redo the calculations in light of that? Leaks by omission~

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3 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Maybe it's omitted because Rose is gonna be dropped and he doesn't want to redo the calculations in light of that? Leaks by omission~

Hey man, if CB has to put up with the changing treaty web argument, so do they ? until it happens, I will consider them part of the sphere. Even if we cut out all of the rose ties and rose themselves, there is still CoA, polaris, Dark Brotherhood and house stark to consider at the very least.

Meanwhile, CB has nothing on the side. TKR has nova riata, their chosen out of bloc alliance. SK has their training alliance, cos has valinor, which although we count as one in the same compared to CoS, also still counts as the tied in alliance. So if we wanted to tie someone else in, we'd have to tie them in through soup, who despite having some fantastic names and I'm sure will be a solid alliance for a long time to come, are still only a week old.

Sorry for using this reply to address other things I'm sure have come up in back rooms and elsewhere on the forums that I am too lazy to check for, but who the hell would we even sign on to consolidate the high tier? 

The obvious choice is GoB, clearly, but that has no chance of happening, even if we wanted it to. CoS' main objective last war was rolling GoB, we aren't about to undo all of our work so we can rule the world from our ivory towers. 

Guardian, even if they dropped everyone, is logistically not going to work either. TKR pulled out of their sphere to hang with us losers, I'm not sure why Adrie even agreed to it but here we are, chilling in our own little corner of the web. Why would TKR drop the sphere entirely if we wanted to keep on guardian? 

The same can be said for TCW, one of the only other alliances who have few enough ties for it to be viable for them to drop everything to hang out with us. TKR let them off the hook easy- but they're still off the hook. So thats not happening. 

I'm not going to explain every single alliance that only has a few ties and a spattering of people above 20 cities, because some of them are somewhat obvious, like rose, CoA, fark, UPN etc, but the general gist of what im going for is there. 

Is any of this even relevant? Loosely so, arguably not even mildly if you argued it right ? but I really wanted to get that off of my chest since people seem convinced this is the start of our evil reign of terror over the game.

If that doesn't convince you, remember that I'm part of this thing and any project, reign of terror or not, with me in it is doomed to fail miserably. 

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Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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I've omitted all other alliances from our numbers because I've no idea who will or won't be our allies once we're done. It will be fewer alliances than right now, but it won't be nobody, either.

I suspect KT/TGH and friends would have a hard time against Chaos; the down-declare chains begin right at the top. The super tier advantage cascades like a waterfall; 25+ city people being free to hit your 20-25 city people then means your 18-20 city people would be getting repeatedly countered by 21-24 city people. You'd struggle to stay afloat when the counters can immediately attack your full strength jet counts.

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1 hour ago, Sketchy said:

A lot more people than Rose count. NPO still has ties to Vanguard, you forgot HS, you forgot Rose satellites, etc.

 

Quite right. Best growth ™ Polaris sits nicely between t$ and NPO tiering. I was just pointing out the most obvious one. 

Edited by Bezzers
Clarity

Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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1 minute ago, Bezzers said:

Quite right. Best growth ™ Polaris sits nicely between t$ and NPO tiering. I was just pointing out the most obvious one. 

Yer I was responding to Avakeal :P

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2 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

Yer I was responding to Avakeal :P

I was supporting you ?

Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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11 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

Yer I was responding to Avakeal :P

See my previous post. Bit pointless to do permanent numbers yet. However, individual numbers for Rose, House Stark and Polaris are,

Rose   NpO   HS  
30+ 2 30+ 0 30+ 0
26-30 11 26-30 0 26-30 0
25-21 13 25-21 13 25-21 4
15-20 20 15-20 13 15-20 13
14-10 11 14-10 6 14-10 17
-10 0 -10 0 -10 1

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16 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

No I was supporting you. Stop copying me :P

I do what I want, you can't stop me! 

Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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6 minutes ago, Micchan said:

"TKR just dropped a strong upper tier for another strong upper tier"

I wonder who is blocking any other option

pUlrfwn.png

The arrows and lines are actually just fingers of accusation at everyone else.

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11 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

If that’s the case, then KT and TGH must be having one hell of an argument.

I was gonna say I want in but someone will be like 'proof of CB consolidation' 

Roll Squeegee pact with Redarmy and Ameyuri

Blues Brothers pact with Redarmy

Leader of the Elyion Resistance. If it's backed by NPO, you know it's evil

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20 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

If that’s the case, then KT and TGH must be having one hell of an argument.

They're one of those disgustingly cutesy couples you see enjoying each others general company every now and then.

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You're all wrong. We are just taking a stance and showing our support for the LGBT(whatever other letters they have now) community. 

21gW5WwfavL.jpg 

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Chief Financial Officer of The Syndicate

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