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Dubayoo
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This is getting a bit ridiculous. I've some random troll who's literally downvoted me 40 times completely out of the blue. The guy furthermore doesn't knock it off when voted back. Obviously, you vote back because if you don't, then the person can literally just downvote every single post without consequence.

As it stands, because he has less posts than me, there's a limit to how much retribution can be done which biases the forum's reputation against players who create more posts.

You really need to change the forum reputation formula so everyone only gets 1 point of reputation per person. Whether you vote for someone 1 time or 100 times, it doesn't matter. You don't get to sink or prop up someone's reputation by yourself. Reputation is a community score, not an individual score.

The score as it is enables creepy stalkers with an addiction to go after people which is seriously screwed up.

The same thing applies the other way as well. It enables pathetic peons to prop someone up just from an obsession.

Is PnW supposed to be a game full of creepy stalkers and pathetic peons? Is the game supposed to discourage activity instead of encourage it?

That isn't a way to build a community. That's a way to literally tell people to not play PnW unless you want to deal with people with serious mental problems.

You could argue the point of reputation is to play the game with other people in terms of who likes who, but that's exactly why reputation should only have 1 point. 1 point per relation between players is measured accurately. 1 point per instance of people just wanting to say something overvalues some relations before others.

The point should be weighted as a proportion of how you have liked or disliked someone's posts over time. If you've liked 50% both ways, then it's 0 points. If you've liked 3/4ths and disliked 1/4th, then it's 0.5 points. If you've liked none and disliked all, then it's -1 point.

If you don't score it this way, then you're enabling people with addictions and obsessions at the expense of people with normal mental health. You're literally turning the game into an insane asylum.

You could also argue the counter is to have other people like your posts, but that turns the game we play for fun into a job. Now, people would have to regularly be on patrol to vote for each other just to counter insane people.

It furthermore drives the game into bias towards old players because old players would already have people constantly voting for each other to prevent new insane people from downvoting. This creates an innate massive hurdle for new generations of mentally healthy players to overcome. They would literally be joining a game with zero reputation against established players whose reputation would be exponentially growing... despite how it really isn't. It's just a few players just voting for each other over and over.

This creates deception in the reputation score. It suggests some people are massively popular when in reality, they're not.

Edited by Dubayoo
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I think the up/down vote feature is pretty pointless in a political simulator & we'd be better off without it. Not sure how it can really be fixed other than remove it. lol

Edit: Also your suggestion would make it harder for some individuals to weigh somebody's score way down. The vast majority of mine are from Ryan1 mass downvoting me for example; with over 22 downvotes & zero upvotes. Under your system his votes would have a diminishing effect; while downvotes from somebody like therebel who does both would be worth more. (Also people who have others who just spam upvote them would see a diminishing effect as well)

I do think it would be an improvement & make the spam up or downvoting less effective. I still think it would be easier to remove it, but your suggestion isn't bad. Although bigger alliances could still effectively mass downvote people even with your system, just by rotating in different people to mass downvote people. So probably a waste of time trying to fix a feature which can't be & he should focus on improving the game.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum
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51 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

I think the up/down vote feature is pretty pointless in a political simulator & we'd be better off without it. Not sure how it can really be fixed other than remove it. lol

Edit: Also your suggestion would make it harder for some individuals to weigh somebody's score way down. The vast majority of mine are from Ryan1 mass downvoting me for example; with over 22 downvotes & zero upvotes. Under your system his votes would have a diminishing effect; while downvotes from somebody like therebel who does both would be worth more. (Also people who have others who just spam upvote them would see a diminishing effect as well)

I do think it would be an improvement & make the spam up or downvoting less effective. I still think it would be easier to remove it, but your suggestion isn't bad. Although bigger alliances could still effectively mass downvote people even with your system, just by rotating in different people to mass downvote people. So probably a waste of time trying to fix a feature which can't be & he should focus on improving the game.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's pointless because politics includes reputation.

The value of the score, however, is to assess people's reputation based on how many people approve or disapprove of the person. Allowing specific stalkers and peons to sink or prop up other people's reputations ruins the point. The score is no longer a reliable benchmark to see how many people approve or disapprove.

I agree that my suggestion would make it harder. That's the point. Specific individuals do not deserve the opportunity to portray themselves as speaking on behalf of everyone.

It doesn't just work that way though. It would also make it harder for people to maintain massively high reputations just because they have a small gathering of people who constantly vote them up. To a newcomer who just joined the game, that number will appear much higher than it deserves to be. Newcomers will believe some people are incredibly popular, but in reality, they're just... part of a small circle of friends.

On the side, I'd also say deleted nations should no longer have impact on people's reputations, and people should be required to like or dislike a player every month so reputation remains updated. Reputation is often forgotten since people don't have memories that last forever. If a relationship isn't maintained, then it shouldn't count towards reputation anymore.

A more nuanced formula would involved weighing opinions relative to the average time it's been since a relationship has been updated, but that would take a lot of coding to figure out. Using a monthly system is a good compromise.

Edited by Dubayoo
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7 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's pointless because politics includes reputation.

The value of the score, however, is to assess people's reputation based on how many people approve or disapprove of the person. Allowing specific stalkers and peons to sink or prop up other people's reputations ruins the point. The score is no longer a reliable benchmark to see how many people approve or disapprove.

I agree that my suggestion would make it harder. That's the point. Specific individuals do not deserve the opportunity to portray themselves as speaking on behalf of everyone.

It doesn't just work that way though. It would also make it harder for people to maintain massively high reputations just because they have a small gathering of people who constantly vote them up. To a newcomer who just joined the game, that number will appear much higher than it deserves to be. Newcomers will believe some people are incredibly popular, but in reality, they're just... part of a small circle of friends.

On the side, I'd also say deleted nations should no longer have impact on people's reputations, and people should be required to like or dislike a player every month so reputation remains updated. Reputation is often forgotten since people don't have memories that last forever. If a relationship isn't maintained, then it shouldn't count towards reputation anymore.

A more nuanced formula would involved weighing opinions relative to the average time it's been since a relationship has been updated, but that would take a lot of coding to figure out. Using a monthly system is a good compromise.

I think people can take the time responding to a post if they really want their feelings known on it. I think any system can still be manipulated, I know a lot of players who only browse the forum so they can’t be mass downvoted.

I think giving credibility to these forum scores are a mistake to begin with; when they don’t mean much of anything.

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I don't quite agree with your point that those who mass downvote posts are insane. They're just trolls that have no better way to spend their time.

If you truly want the reputation system to be altered, you'd have to contact Invision as they're the ones behind the forum software. I'm not sure what customizable options each individual forum has in regards to reputation, if any. An easier solution would be to provide users options in their settings to: Only display upvotes or likes in their Community Reputation score, keep it how it is currently where downvotes count against Community Reputation, or turn off Community Reputation for that individual user. The option to turn off the upvote/downvote feature for one's own posts is another thing to consider.

As a personal note, I do believe the reputation system needs to be changed, or expanded upon at the very least. I've seen threads about this subject before that are simply downvoted into oblivion just to further rub salt into the wounds of those who experience mass downvoting. I don't believe the feature should be removed altogether forum-wide. It is frustrating, however, to see trolls mass downvoting a post you've put much time and effort into.

I've been curious about this for a while, though, so maybe @Alex or a forum admin would be so kind as to let us see what options the forum has regarding reputation, if any?

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10 minutes ago, Eva-Beatrice said:

My point exactly.

God forbid you contribute to a discussion in a discussion subforum. Either contribute or keep your "autistic whining" to yourself plskthnx.

What's their discuss? Someone acts and says stupid shit. People utilize the reputation feature to downvote him for it. Said someone takes the little colored arrows too seriously and complains that people are downvoting them for being dumb.

Tale as old as time. Solution: stop taking the colored arrows so seriously. Or just stop saying stupid shit all the time. Boom, problem solved, took me 4 seconds to come up with it.

Edited by Akuryo
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2 minutes ago, Eva-Beatrice said:

As I said in my other post, it is frustrating to those who put time and effort into their posts and genuinely want to know what people's thoughts are.

I realize this is falling on deaf ears to those who seem dedicated to "posting shit," which describes you by the way. However, I also said that the feature shouldn't be disabled forum-wide. I'll make an amendment to my original post and say that if the ability for a user to disable upvotes/downvotes for their own post is added, that should only be available in subforums such as National Affairs and any RPing subforums. Having it implemented everywhere would only censor the ability to react to posts such as suggestions, where feedback is critical.

Aren't their thoughts obvious? You're getting mass down voted, which in this community typically means they think you're being stupid. Many on top of that also enjoy trolling you by simply saying it too and making textwalls out of it.

I may post alot of shit, but I certainly post more serious, non-retarded garbage than the OP does, or you for that matter. Then again you usually don't say anything, so no one cares. 

You don't want to be shitposted and trolled, don't say stupid shit. Even KT can be serious when someone who really should know better by now isn't being an asshat. And if you're going to shit on even the more polite and serious replies to you, as the OP also does, at what point are you getting what you put in?

Whole thread is a guy !@#$ing over nothing and getting exactly what any other rational person would expect out of that behavior.

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1 hour ago, Eva-Beatrice said:

I don't quite agree with your point that those who mass downvote posts are insane. They're just trolls that have no better way to spend their time.

If you truly want the reputation system to be altered, you'd have to contact Invision as they're the ones behind the forum software. I'm not sure what customizable options each individual forum has in regards to reputation, if any. An easier solution would be to provide users options in their settings to: Only display upvotes or likes in their Community Reputation score, keep it how it is currently where downvotes count against Community Reputation, or turn off Community Reputation for that individual user. The option to turn off the upvote/downvote feature for one's own posts is another thing to consider.

As a personal note, I do believe the reputation system needs to be changed, or expanded upon at the very least. I've seen threads about this subject before that are simply downvoted into oblivion just to further rub salt into the wounds of those who experience mass downvoting. I don't believe the feature should be removed altogether forum-wide. It is frustrating, however, to see trolls mass downvoting a post you've put much time and effort into.

I've been curious about this for a while, though, so maybe @Alex or a forum admin would be so kind as to let us see what options the forum has regarding reputation, if any?

I'd say trolling is a version of insanity, so I wouldn't disagree...

...but yea, it's just important to remember reputation is a community, not individual, characteristic. Getting mass-voted one way or another for better or worse makes reputation lopsided to how some individuals relate more than others.

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54 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I don't think I've ever seen this much autistic whining over a shiny number on an obscure niche games forums.

I mean of all the 1st world problems to have, lol.

I don't think I've ever seen someone refuse to get their own psychopathy checked out so much that they accused others of being autistic out of denial.

Are you trying to confess you're a creepy stalker who refuses to knock it off because you're totally sick in the head?

Edited by Dubayoo
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2 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

I don't think I've ever seen someone refuse to get their own psychopathy checked out so much that they accused others of being autistic out of denial.

Are you trying to confess you're a creepy stalker who refuses to knock it off because you're totally sick in the head?

I'm not a psychopath. Nor a sociopath, or that's what the professionals with medical degrees said anyway. I figure they know better than some random salt lord on the internet.

If downvoting posts responding to me and that are in threads I've posted is in creepy, then absolutely I'm the creepiest MOFO you ever seen. If you don't mean that, then no.

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Just now, Akuryo said:

I'm not a psychopath. Nor a sociopath, or that's what the professionals with medical degrees said anyway. I figure they know better than some random salt lord on the internet.

If downvoting posts responding to me and that are in threads I've posted is in creepy, then absolutely I'm the creepiest MOFO you ever seen. If you don't mean that, then no.

You realize we're trying to talk about an actual point here instead of engaging in personal attacks, right? This isn't an in-game discussion.

The fact that you talk about being a salt lord in an OOC thread suggests that if you did see medical professionals that you're so psychopathic that you acted the whole way through your evaluation.

 

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6 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

You realize we're trying to talk about an actual point here instead of engaging in personal attacks, right? This isn't an in-game discussion.

The fact that you talk about being a salt lord in an OOC thread suggests that if you did see medical professionals that you're so psychopathic that you acted the whole way through your evaluation.

 

"We're not engaging in personal attacks here" says the guy calling people who downvote his posts psychopaths, meaning someone who cannot feel empathy, to the person that called them a salt lord for doing exactly that.

Do you have any self awareness? Any at all would be nice to see. 

I'm uh, calling you the salt lord, please keep up. You're very, very salty. And there you again "we're not engaging in personal attacks" he says while again calling another person a psychopath for downvoting his posts.

@Eva-Beatrice is this really the hill you're gonna die on? With this guy? Come on now.

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6 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

"We're not engaging in personal attacks here" says the guy calling people who downvote his posts psychopaths, meaning someone who cannot feel empathy, to the person that called them a salt lord for doing exactly that.

Do you have any self awareness? Any at all would be nice to see. 

I'm uh, calling you the salt lord, please keep up. You're very, very salty. And there you again "we're not engaging in personal attacks" he says while again calling another person a psychopath for downvoting his posts.

@Eva-Beatrice is this really the hill you're gonna die on? With this guy? Come on now.

I don't have a problem with people downvoting my posts.

The problem is when some random profile who I've never had any contact before at all continues to downvote again and again and again... and I wasn't even talking about you. The system as is allows completely random opinions to totally ruin someone's reputation.

On top of that, the opinion becomes overweighted compared to the opinion of others. It ignores how reputation is a community, not individual, characteristic.

If anyone lacks empathy, it's those who refuse to understand the problem of weighing different people's opinions differently when it comes to defining reputation...

...and no, you're just a cynic who comes to presumptions. You clearly don't believe people can talk objectively about things which further suggests that indeed you're a psychopath. The fact you even downvote someone's opinion in an OOC thread that you disagree with further reinforces the point. You're clearly trying to mix in-game versus real life understanding.

Edited by Dubayoo
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Fam your entire thread is about you being upset with people downvoting your posts and writing a text walls over it.

I don't think most people weigh your reputation when considering your opinion unless it's deep in the red. If it's deep in the red they'll assume it's probably something stupid but otherwise I've never felt it was being weighed against me. I'm sure someone does it, but I don't know them, and considering how much I'm on the forums that means he's probably not around much.

The first true thing you've said about me! Yes, I am infact a cynic. And then right back to insisting I'm a psychopath... Because I don't think people can speak objectively? What?

Objectively speaking, this community mass down votes for 3 reasons. You're being ridiculously stupid, you're being kosmo (unimaginably toxic and flaming overtly), or you take reputation too seriously. If you find yourself being mass downvoted it's a near 100% chance to be one of those 3 things, and if it's not I'd check their alliances and maybe there's a small chance it's an alliance targeting you. Less than 1% small. 

In your case I can tell you it's mostly option one with a small dash of number 3 on the side.

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I remember in CN when an up or down vote feature for the forum was suggested, it got shot down & I think with good reason.

Somebody with to much time on their hands can put most people in the negative. With a coordinated effort someone can quickly be put way in the negatives if they don’t already have a bunch upvotes accumulated.

I didn’t think the up or down votes mattered until the only alliance I applied to without being invited first changed their mind on accepting me due to the down votes. So it can have some draw backs; even if most don’t care.

Edited by Noctis Anarch Caelum
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21 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Fam your entire thread is about you being upset

Again, you don't believe people can talk about things objectively.

You're a psychopath.

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You can't take a swing at me and then cry when I swing back, straight up played the victim card, gtfo.

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3 minutes ago, Parachotic said:

You can't take a swing at me and then cry when I swing back, straight up played the victim card, gtfo.

Boss, I didn't take a swing at you.

You swung first, and continued to escalate. I don't even know who you are or where you came from. You're just a random creepy stalker who's seriously screwed up in the head.

The bottomline is you're self-absorbed in perpetually downvoting for no reason. Your opinion isn't any greater from anyone else's when it comes to what you think of someone else.

Played the victim? No. It's called realizing you're not the center of the universe as much as you might want to be. Grow up.

All my proposition does is hold your opinion in proportion to anyone else's.

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1 minute ago, Dubayoo said:

Boss, I didn't take a swing at you.

You swung first, and continued to escalate. I don't even know who you are or where you came from.

The bottomline is you're self-absorbed in perpetually downvoting for no reason. Your opinion isn't any greater from anyone else's when it comes to what you think of someone else.

Played the victim? No. It's called realizing you're not the center of the universe as much as you might want to be.

That's a whole lot of nothing you said right there.

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Just now, Parachotic said:

That's a whole lot of nothing you said right there.

Whatever troll. Get your head checked out.

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