Edward I Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 49 minutes ago, Yoda said: Every leader has an equal vote (Alliances with more members already have an advantage in the vote for the masses). The winner could be chosen by a simple majority of the votes. But for this to work, we need enough alliance leaders to show interest, besides Kastor's approval And what happens if the panel and the popular vote disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Edward I said: And what happens if the panel and the popular vote disagree? The public at-large, naturally. Not P&W public, the literal, unregistered public who visit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Xun Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Why don't you just have each alliance conduct its own awards? It's not like any of these awards are impartial or anything. 3 Quote . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 ^ ++++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchy Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Doing a rep per alliance is not a bad idea, at least from the perspective of an actual official awards ceremony. Personally I'd just trash the "official" aspect and not have ingame awards, but if your gonna do it this way it might be a bit more fair at least. Alliances can then choose whether they have their leadership just pick their votes or have their members vote on it. The obvious flaw is that spheres/groupings with more alliances will have the advantage rather than more memberss, so you'll still likely face a slant. Plus presumably some groups will decide to collaborate on their votes rather than vote honestly based on their actual opinions. Theres no way to ensure people will ever vote in good faith, especially in a political game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I think just dropping the idea of them being “official” would be best way to do it, since all these ideas on how to do them aren’t very good & they’ll likely be biased regardless. Them being sanctioned as official seems to be why some care how they’re done so much, also letting a smaller group of people decide would likely just make them more biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopold von Habsburg Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, Sketchy said: Doing a rep per alliance is not a bad idea, at least from the perspective of an actual official awards ceremony. Personally I'd just trash the "official" aspect and not have ingame awards, but if your gonna do it this way it might be a bit more fair at least. Alliances can then choose whether they have their leadership just pick their votes or have their members vote on it. The obvious flaw is that spheres/groupings with more alliances will have the advantage rather than more memberss, so you'll still likely face a slant. Plus presumably some groups will decide to collaborate on their votes rather than vote honestly based on their actual opinions. Theres no way to ensure people will ever vote in good faith, especially in a political game. The other big problem I can see with this system is that it's hard to justify an alliance the size of NPO or BK would have their vote count as much as TEst or CoS. By population alone it would have to be worked out where their vote would have more weight as they are representing so many more people. Also would we just cut it off at the top 50 alliances get a say? Top 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Apparently you can make secret polls on the forum but you need to install a plugin e.g. https://invisioncommunity.com/files/file/8756-ne-hide-poll-results/ Something to consider for next time perhaps Edited January 11, 2019 by Yoda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchy Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said: The other big problem I can see with this system is that it's hard to justify an alliance the size of NPO or BK would have their vote count as much as TEst or CoS. By population alone it would have to be worked out where their vote would have more weight as they are representing so many more people. Also would we just cut it off at the top 50 alliances get a say? Top 15? Well, the idea is supposedly to combat the mass vote spamming certain alliances, specifically ones with large member counts, do. So scaling it by member count would kind of undermine the point its trying to address. This only really matters if Alex intends to continue to make these votes "official", and provide ingame awards for them. If he doesn't, then its just a meaningless community organised popularity test that alliances will rig for political points, and its fine. Frankly, if hes going to go this route, he should remove the rewards he gave out last year and start from scratch. Or he should just stay out of it and let the community do it however they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Yoda said: Apparently you can make secret polls on the forum but you need to install a plugin e.g. https://invisioncommunity.com/files/file/8756-ne-hide-poll-results/ Something to consider for next time perhaps I think keeping what people voted for hidden from everyone except a small group of alliances or individuals is one of the worst justifications for doing it this way. The best justification would probably be that most people don't bother using the forum, but I doubt those people have an opinion on the several dozen awards they were asked to vote for. People who just use their phones to log into the game can't even see anybodies sigs; also people can't really make an informed vote on the best flags without taking the time to find the flag's they were voting for & weren't shown in the same place they were voting. So I thought the amount of awards people were expected to vote for all at once made it ridiculous to expect anyone to take the time to make informed votes or take it seriously at all. (Would have taken to long) Edited January 11, 2019 by Noctis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 53 minutes ago, Sketchy said: Frankly, if hes going to go this route, he should remove the rewards he gave out last year and start from scratch. Or he should just stay out of it and let the community do it however they want. Would have to scratch the awards from the year before that too and probably every previous award ceremony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Sketchy said: Well, the idea is supposedly to combat the mass vote spamming certain alliances, specifically ones with large member counts, do. So scaling it by member count would kind of undermine the point its trying to address. This only really matters if Alex intends to continue to make these votes "official", and provide ingame awards for them. If he doesn't, then its just a meaningless community organised popularity test that alliances will rig for political points, and its fine. Frankly, if hes going to go this route, he should remove the rewards he gave out last year and start from scratch. Or he should just stay out of it and let the community do it however they want. He didn't provide them for 2017. He didn't announce ahead of time he wasn't continuing that, but they really shouldn't receive an official sanction at all. The votespamming was partly to show that it was absurd that it would achieve an in-game distinction for a popularity contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchy Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: Would have to scratch the awards from the year before that too and probably every previous award ceremony 11 minutes ago, Roquentin said: He didn't provide them for 2017. He didn't announce ahead of time he wasn't continuing that, but they really shouldn't receive an official sanction at all. The votespamming was partly to show that it was absurd that it would achieve an in-game distinction for a popularity contest. Ah, it was 2016 I was thinking of then not 2017. Does that mean he has no plans to add in-game awards this time? Doesn't really change my position though, if hes going to change the way he handles the awards, he should probably remove the older ones. Or alternatively we can return to just treating this like a community project and people can bicker about the 10 different ways to do it and make 10 different award ceremonies and the rest of us can just ignore them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 7:47 AM, Inst said: Why don't you just have each alliance conduct its own awards? It's not like any of these awards are impartial or anything. We have them at the end of the year and in summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward I Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Sketchy said: Ah, it was 2016 I was thinking of then not 2017. Does that mean he has no plans to add in-game awards this time? He didn't even announce that Kastor was in charge of them this year. There have been no public statements or information from him, so I don't think anyone really knows for sure. 7 hours ago, Sketchy said: Doesn't really change my position though, if hes going to change the way he handles the awards, he should probably remove the older ones. Or alternatively we can return to just treating this like a community project and people can bicker about the 10 different ways to do it and make 10 different award ceremonies and the rest of us can just ignore them. It's probably best for him to lock this subforum and force everyone to conduct their unofficial awards in Orbis Central or offsite if we go this route, but otherwise I agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNG Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Sketchy said: Doesn't really change my position though, if hes going to change the way he handles the awards, he should probably remove the older ones. Screw you Sketchy, I earned this. Alex may not be doing ingame awards anymore, but I'm keeping this one. ? 1 2 Quote "They say the secret to success is being at the right place at the right time. But since you never know when the right time is going to be, I figure the trick is to find the right place and just hang around!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <Kastor> He left and my !@#$ nation is !@#$ed up. And the Finance guy refuses to help. He just writes his !@#$ plays. <Kastor> And laughs and shit. <Kastor> And gives out !@#$ huge loans to Arthur James, that !@#$ bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I see no reason to take away any awards already given to people. They don’t give any special advantage to anyone & if they like them; might as well allow them to keep them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 1:37 PM, Edward I said: He didn't even announce that Kastor was in charge of them this year. There have been no public statements or information from him, so I don't think anyone really knows for sure. It's probably best for him to lock this subforum and force everyone to conduct their unofficial awards in Orbis Central or offsite if we go this route, but otherwise I agree completely. Welp he has, he didn't do it the year Cynic did it, or the year Bezzers did it. But by all means, he has to give a public statement for me, yet again? Because that makes sense. Alex notoriously doesn't make statements, he did that one year because I wanted to up the awards(own subforum, in-game awards), I have a history of making the awards better than they were and upping the standards. I'll probably do it again in 2 years and you'll be there to rage against me, like people were in 2016. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Kastor said: Welp he has, he didn't do it the year Cynic did it, or the year Bezzers did it. But by all means, he has to give a public statement for me, yet again? Because that makes sense. Alex notoriously doesn't make statements, he did that one year because I wanted to up the awards(own subforum, in-game awards), I have a history of making the awards better than they were and upping the standards. I'll probably do it again in 2 years and you'll be there to rage against me, like people were in 2016. Keep the amount way lower if you ever do, I voided the rest of my votes after maybe voting for 3 or 4. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Noctis said: Keep the amount way lower if you ever do, I voided the rest of my votes after maybe voting for 3 or 4. Lol A different page for each category (same link) and the ability to save your responses and continue later may make it more palatable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Yoda said: A different page for each category (same link) and the ability to save your responses and continue later may make it more palatable Also if voting on sigs, flags, avatars & other images; would better if people can see the images they’re voting on without searching for them would also make it better. So people don’t just vote based on the ones they recognize the names for, but actually which is the best would make it better. Know it would be work to gather the images people are voting on for them to see as they’re voting; although think it would be better to not have those rewards than expect people to search for them separate. So a number of things could be improved. Also does anyone know if any in-game rewards will be given this time or is that a mystery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted January 20, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 20, 2019 A clarifying post now that I'm back and reading up roughly on the discussions here: Early in my trip, Chris contacted me and asked if I had any issue with the yearly awards being held off-site, and I said no, that's not an issue. These awards are not hosted or overseen by me, as far as I'm concerned, it's completely community run and you should take the entire process (categories to vote in, nominations, voting, etc.) with a grain of salt. This is all just for fun anyway, it's not like winning a vote gives your nation an in-game cash boost or something. I understand the privacy concerns about using a different website, and I think it is smart to be thoughtful and forward thinking about such things. However, this is such a voluntary and unimportant aspect of the game that you can simply not participate if you're that concerned about it. I also understand the concerns about the vote being rigged, and to be honest, I have no idea whether it was rigged or not, I didn't oversee things at all. Again, take all the results with a grain of salt. While I don't really see an incentive to rig the vote (why have a vote in the first place, you could just proclaim so-and-so as [insert category] of the year in a post with much less effort) it is possible. From what I've read, the pollsters are releasing all the voting data publicly for post-validation anyway, so I imagine we'll find out whether it was rigged or not. Someone also mentioned why in-game awards weren't added for 2017 - the reason is that no one made the award icons. Because I'm not overseeing this process, I have never put in the effort to find/create icons for all of the categories, and have told the yearly award administrators that if someone creates a set of awards (for everyone, not just for the award that you won) I'll add them in-game. That happened in 2016 and 2018, but not last year, for whatever reason. Someone could go make a set of award icons now and I could go back and add the 2017 awards in-game as well. Anyway, I hope that about summarizes things. As I said in the results thread, if you received an award in-game that you don't want, just shoot me a message (Discord DM, PM here, PM in-game) and I will remove it for you (or your alliance.) I'd like to get a better voting/polling system setup in-game for a variety of purposes, and it would probably be ideal to build in voting into the game next year and do it more officially. As of now my plan is to really just work P&W full-time in the second half of this year, so I should have plenty of time to configure such a system and even administrate the awards more officially. 2 4 2 Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Anarch Caelum Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Alex said: A clarifying post now that I'm back and reading up roughly on the discussions here: Early in my trip, Chris contacted me and asked if I had any issue with the yearly awards being held off-site, and I said no, that's not an issue. These awards are not hosted or overseen by me, as far as I'm concerned, it's completely community run and you should take the entire process (categories to vote in, nominations, voting, etc.) with a grain of salt. This is all just for fun anyway, it's not like winning a vote gives your nation an in-game cash boost or something. I understand the privacy concerns about using a different website, and I think it is smart to be thoughtful and forward thinking about such things. However, this is such a voluntary and unimportant aspect of the game that you can simply not participate if you're that concerned about it. I also understand the concerns about the vote being rigged, and to be honest, I have no idea whether it was rigged or not, I didn't oversee things at all. Again, take all the results with a grain of salt. While I don't really see an incentive to rig the vote (why have a vote in the first place, you could just proclaim so-and-so as [insert category] of the year in a post with much less effort) it is possible. From what I've read, the pollsters are releasing all the voting data publicly for post-validation anyway, so I imagine we'll find out whether it was rigged or not. Someone also mentioned why in-game awards weren't added for 2017 - the reason is that no one made the award icons. Because I'm not overseeing this process, I have never put in the effort to find/create icons for all of the categories, and have told the yearly award administrators that if someone creates a set of awards (for everyone, not just for the award that you won) I'll add them in-game. That happened in 2016 and 2018, but not last year, for whatever reason. Someone could go make a set of award icons now and I could go back and add the 2017 awards in-game as well. Anyway, I hope that about summarizes things. As I said in the results thread, if you received an award in-game that you don't want, just shoot me a message (Discord DM, PM here, PM in-game) and I will remove it for you (or your alliance.) I'd like to get a better voting/polling system setup in-game for a variety of purposes, and it would probably be ideal to build in voting into the game next year and do it more officially. As of now my plan is to really just work P&W full-time in the second half of this year, so I should have plenty of time to configure such a system and even administrate the awards more officially. I agree an in-game solution for in-game rewards is best on future popularity awards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I don't think it makes sense that @TheNG Rising doesn't also get a pip for growing the largest pumpkin in all Orbis County this year too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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