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Global War Peace Terms - Discussion

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3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I see. So does TCW allow members to sit in VM, to help out the alliance through other means, and therefore continue receiving the benefits of membership? ( I believe you've mentioned so earlier in the thread, possibly? Just need a reconfirmation.) 

You're clearly fishing for information but if you are so interested we of course don't allow war dodging and those who did so will be booted. But for those who gave us legit reasons and who fought for a few weeks, then of course we understand why they would go into VM, and we aren't going to penalise people for IRL events, which clearly take precedence over a browser game. We course expect those people the moment they return from their VM period that they initially informed us about, to enter back into the war if it is still ongoing. If they extend it without any good reason then that's war dodging in my books and I'd have them punished. When members are in VM they don't contribute to fights, nor provide us with taxes, or anything so I don't know why you seem so obsessed with that.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sphinx
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On 12/28/2018 at 8:09 PM, Parachotic said:

I think the unfortunate part of it all being that only a tad above 450 billion dollars currently exists in pnw although, not counting resources I believe.

It's at $944.8 billion in damages now.  

Also, you do say only $450 billion, but that is actually more than what existed before the war broke out. Fact of the matter is that there was probably more wealth locked up in resources than actual money (i.e. war chests, brokering), and the only thing that kept resource prices high on the market was market speculation. Furthermore, since IQ-sphere is more or less back up to some percentage of normal production, those resource stockpiles will keep going up. 

In other words, Orbis will never return to those days where wars would clean out everyone's resource stockpiles. A definite winner would be visible by the time a scratch is made of the pile, and by that point the amount of resources being consumed will probably be at most equal to the rate of resource generation. Hell, if the market is any indication, there are people picking up cheap resources with the intent of dumping it on the market after the war is over, or when resources prices go back up (assuming they will). 

Edited by Joel James
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On 12/30/2018 at 4:24 AM, Inst said:

VM isn't actually that bad a strategy. If you're using a prolonged war, it makes sense to rotate people in and out of fighting as they become fatigued. Rotating people "out" of fighting comes down to two options: you can either let them sit with no money and low infrastructure, waiting to waste enemy ammo and fuel on beiging them, or you can VM them. The latter has the problem of image, as well as not wasting enemy war slots.

 

Of course, whether TKR-sphere is using rotation tactics is another story altogether.

Using VM to avoid war is specifically against the rules, so that is not in fact a valid strategy in any way.

The problem becomes proving who's doing it to avoid war and who's doing it because they actually need to due to IRL concerns, like work or school or family or whatnot. "Rotation tactics" like that are 100% on the wrong side of the rules there.

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But we go back to the unverifiable, no? Rotation tactics without VM, on the other hand, are perfectly viable, just allow nations to sell infra and go to 0 res while on vacation.

Also, in the interests of achieving peace in our time, I hereby propose the following peace terms that are mutually acceptable to both sides:

 

Article I:

Side I and Side II hereby endeavor not to renew hostilities for the next 6 months.

Article II:

Side I and Side II hereby endeavor to continue hostilities for the next 6 months.

 

===

 

Also, congrats to TKR for breaking 20mn net war stats. At the present pace, it should take between 10 and 20 days for TKR to pass Rose in damages. And then, 3 months of war comes on the 18/19th update.

 

@Kaiser Heide


"It's the war that never ends~

It goes on and on my friends`

I started fighting without knowing what it was~

And now I'm still fighting it just because~

It's the war that never ends~..."

Edited by Inst
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12 hours ago, Inst said:

But we go back to the unverifiable, no? Rotation tactics without VM, on the other hand, are perfectly viable, just allow nations to sell infra and go to 0 res while on vacation.

Well, sure, there's nothing against the rules about sitting on 100% tax, 0 infra, 0 military, 0 resources/cash, and hecking off. I'm not sure I'd qualify that as 'tactics' per se, but it's at least... legal?

 

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On 12/30/2018 at 9:25 AM, Sphinx said:

You're clearly fishing for information but if you are so interested we of course don't allow war dodging and those who did so will be booted. But for those who gave us legit reasons and who fought for a few weeks, then of course we understand why they would go into VM, and we aren't going to penalise people for IRL events, which clearly take precedence over a browser game. We course expect those people the moment they return from their VM period that they initially informed us about, to enter back into the war if it is still ongoing. If they extend it without any good reason then that's war dodging in my books and I'd have them punished. When members are in VM they don't contribute to fights, nor provide us with taxes, or anything so I don't know why you seem so obsessed with that.

 

 

 

 

So anyone who says anything other than "Yep. Guilty. I'm a coward. " gets to stay is what you're saying 

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4 hours ago, Ashland1 said:

So anyone who says anything other than "Yep. Guilty. I'm a coward. " gets to stay is what you're saying 

I know this may came as a shock to some of you no life basement dwellers but some people do actually have a life outside of this silly game and when that life happens to take more time and they need to do the things that life requires and they let us know we have no issues with them going into VM if they need to.

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14 minutes ago, Who Me said:

I know this may came as a shock to some of you no life basement dwellers but some people do actually have a life outside of this silly game and when that life happens to take more time and they need to do the things that life requires and they let us know we have no issues with them going into VM if they need to.

there is only baseball

rawr

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This war has gone for over 2 months now though. If they have been in VM for most the time, not really sure what excuse they could be giving lol

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1 hour ago, katashimon13 said:

there is only baseball

rawr

Even baseball has sucked during the war.

 

8 minutes ago, Keegoz said:

This war has gone for over 2 months now though. If they have been in VM for most the time, not really sure what excuse they could be giving lol

You do understand that the holiday season is a very busy time for some people for various reasons?

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3 hours ago, Who Me said:

You do understand that the holiday season is a very busy time for some people for various reasons?

You really suck at defending why you want this war to continue over VM'ers. 2 months is not a rational timeline for the amount of people you have in VM for just 'holidays'.

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The funny thing is, if SynDIQ wants this war to end earlier, they should act like they don't want this war to end. Forget peace talks, forget any negotiations. It should be TKR-sphere begging SynDIQ to end the war, because it's quite simple. If TKR-sphere isn't asking for the war to end and to accept an unconditional surrender, they haven't been beaten. It's not an unconditional surrender if TKR-sphere is attempting to get rid of the VM and Kosonome terms, it's still continued negotiations over a conditional surrender.

 

By taking discussions seriously at this point, SynDIQ is suggesting that it is annoyed by this war and all that talk that it's generating revenue faster than it's taking damage is bluster. That is to say, TKR-sphere's Fabian / deGaullian strategy is working and that SynDIQ will capitulate over some of its peace terms.

 

The real fact of the war isn't the war of words that's being fought over essentially nothing, it's the fact that TKR-sphere is unable to grow and that many nations just sit there at 0 mil or have gone plain inactive, and the fact that SynDIQ is taking grazing attacks from TKR-sphere downdeclares that aren't being properly controlled by superior assets. At some point, this battle of endurance will end with either TKR-sphere capitulating to full terms or SynDIQ capitulating to modified terms. All this talk is just talk and essentially immaterial to the course of this war.

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1 hour ago, Inst said:

The funny thing is, if SynDIQ wants this war to end earlier, they should act like they don't want this war to end. Forget peace talks, forget any negotiations. It should be TKR-sphere begging SynDIQ to end the war, because it's quite simple. If TKR-sphere isn't asking for the war to end and to accept an unconditional surrender, they haven't been beaten. It's not an unconditional surrender if TKR-sphere is attempting to get rid of the VM and Kosonome terms, it's still continued negotiations over a conditional surrender.

 

By taking discussions seriously at this point, SynDIQ is suggesting that it is annoyed by this war and all that talk that it's generating revenue faster than it's taking damage is bluster. That is to say, TKR-sphere's Fabian / deGaullian strategy is working and that SynDIQ will capitulate over some of its peace terms.

 

The real fact of the war isn't the war of words that's being fought over essentially nothing, it's the fact that TKR-sphere is unable to grow and that many nations just sit there at 0 mil or have gone plain inactive, and the fact that SynDIQ is taking grazing attacks from TKR-sphere downdeclares that aren't being properly controlled by superior assets. At some point, this battle of endurance will end with either TKR-sphere capitulating to full terms or SynDIQ capitulating to modified terms. All this talk is just talk and essentially immaterial to the course of this war.

They are just going inactive and the longer it goes, the more that go inactive.

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6 hours ago, Keegoz said:

This war has gone for over 2 months now though. If they have been in VM for most the time, not really sure what excuse they could be giving lol

At this point, we either have people that are hospitalized, in prison, got sent to the International Space Station crew as a shift change, or are taking a spiritual backpacking journey across the world.

2 hours ago, Inst said:

The funny thing is, if SynDIQ wants this war to end earlier, they should act like they don't want this war to end. Forget peace talks, forget any negotiations. It should be TKR-sphere begging SynDIQ to end the war, because it's quite simple. If TKR-sphere isn't asking for the war to end and to accept an unconditional surrender, they haven't been beaten. It's not an unconditional surrender if TKR-sphere is attempting to get rid of the VM and Kosonome terms, it's still continued negotiations over a conditional surrender.

 

By taking discussions seriously at this point, SynDIQ is suggesting that it is annoyed by this war and all that talk that it's generating revenue faster than it's taking damage is bluster. That is to say, TKR-sphere's Fabian / deGaullian strategy is working and that SynDIQ will capitulate over some of its peace terms.

 

The real fact of the war isn't the war of words that's being fought over essentially nothing, it's the fact that TKR-sphere is unable to grow and that many nations just sit there at 0 mil or have gone plain inactive, and the fact that SynDIQ is taking grazing attacks from TKR-sphere downdeclares that aren't being properly controlled by superior assets. At some point, this battle of endurance will end with either TKR-sphere capitulating to full terms or SynDIQ capitulating to modified terms. All this talk is just talk and essentially immaterial to the course of this war.

Pretty much, just keep the war going as long as possible. They'll probably need an extra VM 2 weeks for Martin Luther King Day, Presidents Day, St. Patrick's Day, Easter Weekend, and Memorial Day. Then they'll say IQ and folks are still too rash and hasty to assume VM for this long has an excuse.

Edited by 🗲ϟħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™🗲
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6 hours ago, Who Me said:

You do understand that the holiday season is a very busy time for some people for various reasons?

I really want to live in this country where we get two and a half months of complete vacation.
Where can I sign up for the citizenship?

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Perhaps one day when you people grow up and go out into the big bad world you will come to understand that not all industries run on the 8 hour per day, 5 days per week work schedule and that many have peak and lull periods in their year.

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We've already gone over the basic principles and why SynDIQ wants TKR'-spheres VMers destroyed. Continued discussion is a Chewbacca defense around the fact that SynDIQ wants unconditional surrender and TKR-sphere doesn't want to surrender unconditionally.

Edited by Inst
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7 minutes ago, Who Me said:

Perhaps one day when you people grow up and go out into the big bad world you will come to understand that not all industries run on the 8 hour per day, 5 days per week work schedule and that many have peak and lull periods in their year.

TCW confirmed for being the Iranian Mall-Santa alliance of choice.

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2 hours ago, Who Me said:

Perhaps one day when you people grow up and go out into the big bad world you will come to understand that not all industries run on the 8 hour per day, 5 days per week work schedule and that many have peak and lull periods in their year.

I've been working anywhere from 8, to 12, to 16 hour shifts, 6 days a week, for the past 3 weeks. Despite this, i have still been able to eat, sleep, drink, and devote the ludicrous amounts of time i prefer to devote to staring at the chessboard that is my alliance and the global situation around it, trying to tweak and modify the dozens upon dozens of moves to be made for what i want.

If that does not make it obvious by the way, this also means i could easily fight a full scale war still. Infact, probably without losing any time to my endless planning, brainstorming, and just trying to grow in the middle of a war i didn't expect to be so debilitating to me.

Sounds like your alliance members need to take a dose of Akuryo and get good tbh. Either it's not just vacation anymore, or your entire side must admit publicly that i'm sort of super-human wizard, the nature of whose powers you could only dream of understanding.

I'm fine with either. :D

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Also since everyone talks about inactivity in Radiantsphere, i used my boredom to count out the major alliances. I don't personally consider Orange as inactive yet, it's here for those who may, or more accurately to show the number of people who may be heading for red or purple. Current VM also included but not counted towards total members.

TKR:
14/97 Red or Purple (14%)
22/97 Orange (22%)
36/97 Total (36%)
VM members: 7

TCW:
17/61 Red or Purple (27%)
12/61 Orange (19%)
29/61 Total (46%)
VM members: 11

Guardian:
15/43 Red or Purple (35%)
7/43 Orange (16%)
22/43 Total (51%)
VM members: 4

GOB:
0/20 Red or Purple (0%)
2/20 Orange (10%)
2/20 Total (10%)
VM members: 2

Everyone may now continue using inactivity as a point with some actual numbers this time. Didn't bother counting the protectorates as they don't really have much of a say, and Tesla is basically dead anyway. 

When considering the loss of members from TCW and TKR as well, i personally think this is a rather shut-and-close case, both have dropped membership by nearly 33%. Whatever those members may have been, good or bad, they are gone, and 500 some-ought cities disappearing from TKR isn't nothing. :P

Edited by Akuryo
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For comparison purposes, BK is 26/11 shallow and deep inactives, or 8% deep inactives and 27% total inactives. NPO is 36/12 shallow and deep inactives, or 8% deep inactives and 31% total inactives. The Syndicate is 12/7 shallow and deep inactives, or 11% deep inactives and 29% total inactives.

 

I usually don't bother with shallow inactives because all it takes is to be inactive for more than 24 hours to reach that state. Inactivity in TKR is also reduced by the fact that deep inactives that don't bother to sign in with government seem to be booted off to the Applicant AA. Guardian and TCW don't seem to follow the same protocol, and it's rather irrelevant for Grumpy, isn't it?

 

I'll also point out that most deep inactives tend to be low-level or mid-level nations; if you pop open a TKR nations list you'll note that very few TKR inactives can be found on the first page. These losses are relatively tolerable to upper-tier alliances.

Edited by Inst

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Holy hell, how many members did TCW lose?  Weren’t they and TKR above 100 this summer?

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