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Global War Peace Terms - Discussion

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1 hour ago, Apeman said:

Get your own tactic. Nukes suck. Where are we on individual surrenders? 

No individual surrenders have been offered or discussed, and no such surrenders would get accepted, most probably.

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2 hours ago, Keza Purple said:

black-panther-mbaku-are-you-done.gif

me when you see another 19 pages 

 

37 minutes ago, Bluedart said:

20 pages Christ....

At least 2 of those pages are just posts of people commenting on the length of the topic. :v

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7 hours ago, The Mad Titan said:

Alright so I’ll give this a stab and try to be fairly even. 

Our side has not budged on any terms outside of two counter offers on the bot terms which were rejected then summarily rescinded. Our side feels no need to peace out as most of our economies, while obviously not at 100%, are still substantial and most people are already replacing their used warchests. 

Their side has accepted all the joke terms, except for Grumpy/GOB which was accepted then SRD later reneged on. VM nations have had no progress as they feel we are unfairly targeting their VM members. They also have rejected the bot demand on essentially the grounds of have your members “Git Gud”, and the art is part of their alliance culture. Guardian/GoB tie hasn’t even been discussed yet. 

The normal progression of these is they contact us to begin talks, a time is agreed upon we, we show up, we yell at each other for an hour, then they walk away. Previously they lasted 3 weeks before contacting us again, this time one week, though they didn’t show up to their scheduled time so you could argue it’s longer. 

For rational of continuing the war, our side sees no reason to end the war when we see their member count continuing to dwindle. Additionally they are making no money versus ours being reduced, so economically they are being set back more and more. 

From their perspective they probably are hoping that they can drag out it out for better deals. Additionally, they can have better damage proportions due to them having more targets, with them being more intact. However this is misleading as certain alliances are rebuilding infra, and making themselves targets so this differential is skewed by certain alliances. 

Well see how long they hold out, but since every day they do it sets them back more our side is content. I expect war stats to encourage them to hold out longer as well. 

 

7 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

Sure, we did walk off for three weeks but that's already been discussed on here. That was an intentional walk off because we weren't done fighting, you all said you weren't done fighting, and we weren't happy with the terms, the progress of the discussions, or any of you really. 

Trying to paint us as flaky since returning is ridiculous. We talked and scheduled a time on a Sunday and arrived on that. No one walked away for a week after that. Your side asked about  the next Sunday for a time, which we weren't sure we could make because of the holidays and so proposed the running talks instead, which you all agreed to.

I was going to try and sit down to get something up and post sometime on Sunday but when I hadn't managed to find the time to do so by update, you decided that meant I was skipping a meeting. I didn't even think there was one because we'd swapped those for running talks. And then your side decided we should just wait until after the holidays, which is fine because who wants to deal with PnW instead of spending time with their families at Christmas? Definitely not me.

But we're there and we're trying to work on things with you guys. You're free to continue reading into our actions and completely misunderstanding us. Or you can actually talk to us and ask what's up. My DMs are always open, Leo.

Thank you both for the detailed responses. 

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@The Mad Titan


This is only a suspicion, but part of the point of dragging out these war negotiations is to make sure everyone knows that declaring war on TKR-sphere is a pain in the ass; even if you win, you will be stuck fighting an Arrgh-type or VietTKR war for months after substantial combat operations are over, all while taking nukes.


The problem is how well a coalition employing this strategy can hold out. At first, the members who leave will be garbage, EMC-type members. Next you get vacillators who fought it out for a while, but then decided they were bored of the game and weren't really contributing much anyways. But where this starts to hurt is when quality members begin to leave.

 

I am basically a "pixels mean nothing" type of guy, but the third imposes substantial losses since the lifeblood of an alliance is its members and organization. Bleeding out bad blood isn't a problem, but when you start losing healthy members, you have a more serious problem than any of the damage SynDIQ has inflicted on a statistical basis. I think TKR-sphere has already bled off their EMCers, and is either bleeding vacillators or quality members right now, depending on who you ask. What's worse is the post-war losses, i.e, there will be some members who decide not to rebuild and decide to quit instead.


I think TKR-sphere can hold out at least to breaking the DDR / "69" days war record, maybe to 3 months or more. But they are better off ending this before they reach the breaking point. I like TKR-sphere, I obviously don't want to see them get rerolled, but excess qualitative bleed isn't good either.

 

@Apeman

 

There was an ex-TCW nation that, I believe, deleted, but the gentleman or lady involved left TCW for TFP. That's sort of an individual surrender, but the nation was promptly attacked by SyndIQ assets after joining TFP.

 

Re: Prefontaine:


Angry screaming about how you're losing, my balls are bigger than yours, and that you should kneel down and obey isn't conducive to good peace negotiations. And to insightful people, it just makes the party doing so look bad, i.e, a party roused to anger is often impotent. The Mad Titan, at least, is talking about the real damage that TKR-sphere is taking, and is focusing on that. But then again, what I'm told is that Prefontaine isn't formally part of these negotiations.

Edited by Inst
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1 hour ago, Inst said:

@The Mad Titan


This is only a suspicion, but part of the point of dragging out these war negotiations is to make sure everyone knows that declaring war on TKR-sphere is a pain in the ass; even if you win, you will be stuck fighting an Arrgh-type or VietTKR war for months after substantial combat operations are over, all while taking nukes.

A "suspicion"? I thought it went without saying that that's everyone's calculation. When was the last time a war ended within a week of the point where the winning and losing sides were clearly established? That's not rhetorical; I really want to know if that's ever happened.

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The war is being dragged on for longer than most wars. The only major war that exceeds it in length is the hit on TGH-sphere, and we're just 2 days away from passing it.

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I assume congrats to both sides are in order. Thanks for the quick replies ripper and inst. In my opinion the people whom are left fighting a long drawn out war are the real winners here. Zi really inst that bad. Did commonwealth lose a member the pantheon? Duck bay needs a slap, just saying. Who jumps sides to the victor and gets accepted?

Edited by Apeman
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11 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Hey @Oppilan, didn’t you talk shit about us during the 69 Day War?

You should use those strong military tactics you criticized us with.  After you work on activity that is.

@Prefontaine - I figured Tesla would be a deadbeat Protectorate.  Not sure why players make these AAs and just roll over.  Basically just trying to cash in on TKR covering their asses.

Not sure who’s worse, Tesla or AK (A Protectorate hiding behind Syndicate/Black Knights and declaring war).

Edited by Buorhann

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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Hey @Oppilan, didn’t you talk shit about us during the 69 Day War?

You should use those strong military tactics you criticized us with.  After you work on activity that is.

LyjIxcK.gif

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Yes, so Tesla is dead. It seems as though they found a new game (mobile) the exact day the war started. What else is new?

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8 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Hey @Oppilan, didn’t you talk shit about us during the 69 Day War?

You should use those strong military tactics you criticized us with.  After you work on activity that is.

@Prefontaine - I figured Tesla would be a deadbeat Protectorate.  Not sure why players make these AAs and just roll over.  Basically just trying to cash in on TKR covering their asses.

Not sure who’s worse, Tesla or AK (A Protectorate hiding behind Syndicate/Black Knights and declaring war).

Tesla is the best example of EMC. 

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9 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Quite curious that all of them stopped playing between the 4th and 7th of november.

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15 hours ago, Divinum said:

A "suspicion"? I thought it went without saying that that's everyone's calculation. When was the last time a war ended within a week of the point where the winning and losing sides were clearly established? That's not rhetorical; I really want to know if that's ever happened.

 

16 hours ago, Inst said:

 

This is only a suspicion, but part of the point of dragging out these war negotiations is to make sure everyone knows that declaring war on TKR-sphere is a pain in the ass; even if you win, you will be stuck fighting an Arrgh-type or VietTKR war for months after substantial combat operations are over, all while taking nukes.

Yea but it’s not really a pain in the ass like IQ or Arrgh is. A Vietnam scenario implies you aren’t seeing progress, which is untrue in this scenario. 

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of guerilla warfare. This isn’t IQ where they have a safe zone, or Arrgh who doesn’t care. It would be different if there 130 members all active and nuking. Instead there are maybe 30-40 of the entirety of EMC doing anything. They aren’t deincentizing anything with their current performance. 

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1 hour ago, The Mad Titan said:

 

Yea but it’s not really a pain in the ass like IQ or Arrgh is. A Vietnam scenario implies you aren’t seeing progress, which is untrue in this scenario. 

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of guerilla warfare. This isn’t IQ where they have a safe zone, or Arrgh who doesn’t care. It would be different if there 130 members all active and nuking. Instead there are maybe 30-40 of the entirety of EMC doing anything. They aren’t deincentizing anything with their current performance. 

I didn't say they were competently acting out of spite.

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@The Mad Titan

I'd disagree. The Tesla suicide on CoS and TEst was substantial in terms of damage dealt, although the entire alliance migrating to another game meant that damage taken  was unacceptable. Then there was the part where Syndisphere kept on complaining about having no slots available. Then there's the war negotiations which seem to be heavily stalled. There's the BK nation that keeps on rebuying to 3k infra after getting nuked, while Buffalo NY is getting nuke rogued by Guardian for over 100mn a successful nuke hit. And there's the fact that TKR has a reasonable chance of reaching rank 1 in war stats over the next month or two.

I'm not saying that hitting TKR-sphere is physically "impossible" or that they're somehow winning this war, but they're doing their best to make this war as irritating as possible.

And in reality, if you look up guerrilla warfare in real life, it's typically just a more sophisticated form of human wave attacks; guerrillas usually end up taking massive civilian and military casualties, with around 10x the "home" side dying per enemy combatant killed. The Vietnamese, for instance, were never actually winning at any stage of the war before the Americans pulled out. Instead, as Giap said, the Americans got tired of killing them before the Vietnamese got tired of dying.


The question, ultimately, is the capability for endurance. The level of endurance TKR-sphere is showing is that it'd take at least another 3-4 weeks (3 months) before TKR breaks and that there's a good chance they can hold out to 4 months or more.

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Do you even know what nuke roguing actually is. You don't seem to. Okay so if i leave my AA and start nuking high infra losers, like these sub 20 city guys with 3k, that's nuke roguing. Now if I do it from my alliance or to an alliance I'm at war with, that's called attacking an alliance im at war with.

 

3-4 weeks does not, infact, equal 3 months. Even if it did, who cares? Radiantsphere already admits the damage done to it has been extreme and that they've been stunted severely. They do it for 4 more months, so what? They'll never match the harm done to them. Even if they exceed syndiq in dealt damage it won't be equal, there's like 25 syndiq AAs.

All they'll have done is cause so much mind boggling self harm that by the time the next global after that happens, they'd still be in the early stages of recovery and momentum gain. And that's assuming the next global warming after that is 6-9 months later, or 13 months from now. 

At that point, they'd be better off disbanding, right now, and just diaspora to other alliances, or create new ones.

 

That's literally what everyone has been saying, inst. Nobody gives a flying down syndrome hogs shit what their intent is or if they can do it or not. If I threaten to cut my own off if the baker doesn't give me a higher discount he isn't going to care. I'm the one losing out, he just has to get his 17 year old backroom employee to clean the blood.

 

Thus, to reiterate again, there is no point to this. The only thing left to prove is how stubborn you are to accept reality and face the Slayer. In the end, he runs faster, and he always will. Just because you kept running even when your tendons snapped won't make him take your soul to hell more gently LMAO.

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Akuryo, the best possible response to you is a chuckle.

 

And yes, people do give a shit whether or not TKR peaces out given the massive huffing and puffing shown on this forum. And what's with that rumor that TKR-sphere is funding you?

Edited by Inst
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Just now, Inst said:

Akuryo, the best possible response to you is a chuckle.

 

And yes, people do give a shit whether or not TKR peaces out. And what's with that rumor that TKR-sphere is funding you?

The best possible response is for you to stop talking, honestly. You keep the saying shit over and over, but TKR already proved the last point worth proving, that it would go for as long as TGH/KT. 

Right now I'm only funded by individuals who have shown interest. Various parties at war on both sides also have interest. Not sure why this matters? Is it somehow controversial for people to look into investment opportunities? Lol

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As I've mentioned before, this is a perfectly good reason to keep on talking, because it annoys you. Likewise, this is a good reason for TKR to keep fighting, because it annoys SynDIQ.

 

As far as funding goes, the rumor is that gov members in TKR-sphere are funding you. What gives, Akuryo?

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