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Global War Peace Terms - Discussion

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3 hours ago, Agent W said:

Everyone in EMC is so goddamn soft. I guess that’s what years of winning easy wars do to you.

I remember days of old when winning a war meant something, as the victors put their jackboots on the neck of their fallen enemies. It’s a damn shame Pacifica doesn’t repeat the actions their forebears once took upon enemies.

It's interesting that you never took this stance back then when you were in Syndicate, or you at least kept it in check.  I guess being on the side of the dogpile helps bring out your true persona.

Also interesting that you're calling out Pacifica considering your own history as well.

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11 hours ago, Balish said:

Guess playing this game for 3 1/2 years and being a 4.0 GPA as an upperclassman in college means I get hit with playground insults.  We have truly evolved here on Orbis XD.

I know Right? And yet I'm a 2.0 ish GPA and was born into the shrinking middle class. So it's Playground insults, Anger, and Adults being kids all around

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7 minutes ago, Madden8021 said:

I know Right? And yet I'm a 2.0 ish GPA and was born into the shrinking middle class. So it's Playground insults, Anger, and Adults being kids all around

Dang, I guess your failure in school means you are responsible for the death of the Middle Class.

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Just now, Balish said:

Dang, I guess your failure in school means you are responsible for the death of the Middle Class.

Guess so.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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The interesting part of this is the TKR-sphere has lost massively and stopped even fighting back for the most part. The IQ Coalition's primarily issue at the moment is we have more people available to fight than slots to be filled. Our banks are still pumping on a moderate level vs the normal level while theirs are not. The longer they prolong this situation the worse it gets for them.  These are the terms, when you feel you've been sufficiently beaten, accept them.

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12 hours ago, Malal said:

The longer the war goes on, the worse it is for EMC as our coalition can still economically grow while EMC is stuck losing potential money and resourses. EMC is only destroying themselves by keeping the war ongoing and divesting themselves of the revenue needed to be competitive in the future. 

 

It's a shame that EMC are seemingly incapable of understanding basic economic theory.

You might be forgetting just how much of an opportunity cost there is in maintaining a full militarization; it's not just in the upkeep or the combat expenditures. Every slot used for a factory is a slot not used for a refinery, and high infra is expensive to have nuked/missiled. Yes, TKRsphere is suffering under the inability to have more than 1k infra, but that's still enough economy to keep the war machines running at minimum. The only thing more expensive than a battle won is a battle lost, so really it's us on the sidelines that are actually getting ahead of both of your sides :awesome:

And that's not to mention the raiders that are making unholy stacks off the war in a more direct sense, of course.

>stuff about the vacation clause

Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again: that term is punitive. That doesn't mean it's unjustified, nor does it mean it's unfair, nor does it mean it's wrong, but it is still a mechanically punitive demand. TKRsphere is completely in their rights to deny it, just like they're within their rights to accept it. For all the leverage their opponents think they have and for all that they think TKRsphere "should" do, victory does not equate to power of attorney. You can roll them until kingdom come, fine, but that doesn't entitle you to their obedience. All you can do is put a price on the option of resistance, not deny it. That's a concept I highly value, if anyone hasn't figured that out already.

It's the rhetoric posted about it that I was really objecting to in my previous posts when I was talking about the VM clause. Things like "what punitive demands, they're not punishing", the point is that term still is something mechanically relevant and should be considered as such. Again, I'm not saying it's unfair, unjustified, or anything else: just that it is a punitive term despite it being called otherwise for some reason. That said, in my nowhere near humble opinion it should be punitive. Deserters on any side deserve nothing less than a full rolling, preferably harder than the damage that honest fighters took. And they should be held accountable by everyone, not just the side that wants an extra couple of billion on their damage totals. That's not pursuit of justice, that's just aggression. (Which is fair on its own merits of course, as long as it's honest.)

TKRsphere wants to have their VMers taxed punitively for the benefit of their sphere, IQ wants to have TKRsphere's VMers destroyed for the detriment of TKRsphere; all I want is for all deserters to be rolled on all sides, including syndiquisition. After all, the definition of the word "punish":

QhhJ7u2.png

-------

...In all sincerity, why is this thread even a thing? What's the point of it? I shouldn't be replying at all but for the fact that irrelevant opinions were asked for, and you all know I love providing an irrelevant opinion on things when given the chance, but 12 pages of this was never going to get anywhere the negotiations didn't already go.

 

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
why tho
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The thread likely exists with the intent to apply public pressure to TKRsphere, if I had to guess.

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9 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

The thread likely exists with the intent to apply public pressure to TKRsphere, if I had to guess.

That's what I'm thinking too, but I'm not sure it's really done that. Besides, what would more pressure accomplish? They're already getting rolled.

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56 minutes ago, ComradeMilton said:

The interesting part of this is the TKR-sphere has lost massively and stopped even fighting back for the most part. The IQ Coalition's primarily issue at the moment is we have more people available to fight than slots to be filled. Our banks are still pumping on a moderate level vs the normal level while theirs are not. The longer they prolong this situation the worse it gets for them.  These are the terms, when you feel you've been sufficiently beaten, accept them.

There is no bill lock though, so won’t they drag more of you down as the damage they take costs almost nothing to repair & their main inconvenience is they need to wait to rebuild after being reduced to where they are?

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Just to clarify is the insistence on the ability to hit the VM mode people or stop false paperless alliances also for the "good of the game" ?

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1 hour ago, Akuryo said:

The thread likely exists with the intent to apply public pressure to TKRsphere, if I had to guess.

If you had said to apply public pressure to keep everyone on their side in you would be much closer to the truth. You can't really think we give a rip what others think at this point can you?

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@ComradeMilton

 

And will you roll them again if they do?

 

You've been on the opposite side of this scenario enough times to know better. I'm sure there are abridged peace terms that are far less bullshit than the ones proposed. They shouldn't be accepted.

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9 minutes ago, Ripper said:

One part is to make sure the negotiations are transparent and the members of both sides know how things are.

The other part is that I thought it would be more interesting (for the community as a whole) having a discussion here. As I said, all discussions here are not part of the negotiations.

You should (or, more specifically, there is no reason that you shouldn't), because you enjoy discussing things. That's a purpose of this thread. Offering you something to discuss.

Even if I’m not really in agreement with terms & more of a white peace advocate after everyone gets their hits in; I do think the thread to discuss is good. So props on that.

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50 minutes ago, Ripper said:

One part is to make sure the negotiations are transparent and the members of both sides know how things are.

The other part is that I thought it would be more interesting (for the community as a whole) having a discussion here. As I said, all discussions here are not part of the negotiations.

You should (or, more specifically, there is no reason that you shouldn't), because you enjoy discussing things. That's a purpose of this thread. Offering you something to discuss.

Well, I do appreciate it; this is indeed a very interesting thing and I'm curious as to how it pans out in the end.

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2 hours ago, Who Me said:

If you had said to apply public pressure to keep everyone on their side in you would be much closer to the truth. You can't really think we give a rip what others think at this point can you?

Nope. The public doesn't matter. This is up to the TKRsphere to determine when they're ready to admit defeat and rebuild and move on.

1 hour ago, Inst said:

@ComradeMilton

 

And will you roll them again if they do?

We'll do just what TKR did after successful wars**

1 hour ago, Inst said:

 

You've been on the opposite side of this scenario enough times to know better. I'm sure there are abridged peace terms that are far less bullshit than the ones proposed. They shouldn't be accepted.

Then they needn't accept. They'll remain at this infra level indefinitely.

**Obviously not including this war.

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Did you care about being stuck at a low infra-level indefinitely? I just find it awfully hypocritical; if you had the same mentality you wished TKR to have, BK would never have defected from EMC. NPO would have disbanded a while back.

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47 minutes ago, Inst said:

Did you care about being stuck at a low infra-level indefinitely? I just find it awfully hypocritical; if you had the same mentality you wished TKR to have, BK would never have defected from EMC. NPO would have disbanded a while back.

I'd probably just accept the terms if there was no flexibility and the alternative was a continuation of a war that had dropped my alliance score to 25% of pre-war levels, tbh.

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44 minutes ago, Inst said:

Did you care about being stuck at a low infra-level indefinitely? I just find it awfully hypocritical; if you had the same mentality you wished TKR to have, BK would never have defected from EMC. NPO would have disbanded a while back.

Theirs do, otherwise they wouldn’t be down to 95 active members. 

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I dunno, if I were TKR-sphere I'd go spend the entire rebuilding warchest on war, then Dolphinplan once we're out of money.

 

In reality, quite a few of their inactives seem to be active on Discord, and probably Slack.

 

But then again, there is only one Antoine Roquentin Suicide Cult (NPO).

Edited by Inst

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Quote

~ submitted by Church of Spaceology

  1. Either Grumpy Old Bastards have to sign a formal MDP, lasting a minimum of 9 months, with Guardian and/or The Knights Radiant within 2 weeks after Term 1 of Article I is fulfilled:
    • The 9 months MDP(s) shall be officially announced on the Foreign Affairs subforum of the P&W forums and be visible through the corresponding in-game mechanic.
    • No activation of the cancellation clause of the MDP(s) can take place without valid reasoning behind it.
    • If there is a reasoning behind the cancellation, it has to be made public.
  2. Or Grumpy Old Bastards have to not receive help from Guardian and The Knights Radiant in the next defensive war Grumpy Old Bastards face.

I'm curious, what in your opinions constitutes a paperless treaty and a "secret" treaty?

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16 minutes ago, Inst said:

I dunno, if I were TKR-sphere I'd go spend the entire rebuilding warchest on war, then Dolphinplan once we're out of money.

Works for us.

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3 hours ago, Inst said:

Did you care about being stuck at a low infra-level indefinitely? I just find it awfully hypocritical; if you had the same mentality you wished TKR to have, BK would never have defected from EMC. NPO would have disbanded a while back.

BK was never part of EMC. Please stop talking like you're smart when you get this basic shit wrong. BK and TKR parted ways well before EMC was even a term. Infact, EMC became a term during the days of IQ, if i'm not mistaken, meaning BK was literally on the opposing sphere from EMC at all times, and still is. 

1 hour ago, Keegoz said:

I'm curious, what in your opinions constitutes a paperless treaty and a "secret" treaty?

Isn't the only real difference that one is known about and the other isn't. 

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EMC is both a bloc as well as a concept. BK defected from Obsidian Order in part because of conflicts with TKR, as well as desires to play "hard mode".

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