Roquentin Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: No, the express purpose of beiging them truly to give them a chance to do something. We knew full well that regardless of what they did, they'd get smashed, but at least giving them the opportunity to do stuff was more interesting (and personally, I was curious to see if they had picked up anything from the 69DW) than to just cycle/deny beiges and sit on them, which is not particularly fun for the one doing it (and even less so for those who're in the receiving end of it). Loot is indeed wealth transfer... if there's any wealth to transfer, that is. If WC's and wartime taxes are adjusted to account for it, then the loot bleeding can (and in fact, is) substantially mitigated to the point where it isn't substantial. Considering that loot is one of the few incentives for beiging at all (the other few being infra destruction, getting rid of someone nuking/missile'ing you, or doing so to avoid being beiged yourself, amongst others I may be forgetting), I don't see the 'wealth transfer = inequality gap widened' as being a substantial issue, especially when you consider that it's often forfeited anyways for the sake of keeping an opponent down, and particularly when it's only a potential circumstantial issue (given that inequality is only increased if the loser happens to be impoverished while the winner is well off, and you could very well be in the opposing case wherein the loser is quite rich while the winner is the one that doesn't have a penny to his name), as opposed to the one being put forth in the thread (idle time while sitting on someone due to low resistance), which is bound to always happen when you go with the lowest risk, pragmatic approach. And for the record (might as well address the issue originally presented), the only thing that a change as proposed would achieve is simply make wars like this more fun for the winning side (due to slots being more frequently freed up), at the expense of the losing side's amusement (due to being bombed more constantly while there's often little they can do in such a situation). If we were in the business of making things more interesting/fun across the board, rather than to pick a self-serving suggestion presented by either side of a conflict, I'd just go with the suggestion Sketchy made back in March/April, of making beige happen automatically by the time a war expires (if it didn't happen already). It'd actually generate a scenario where there's conventional action (the kind people tend to seek) every round, as opposed to the current setup where it's usually it's the first few (if not the very first) rounds where you fight conventionally , while the following ones are, for the most part, either keeping someone's head down, while the one being pinned tries to find ways to fight back, usually by unconventional means. If loot has to be tweaked/nerfed (alongside infra destroyed in all your cities) to make up for it, then so be it. It'd be a small price to pay for the benefit it'd bring in terms of making alliance wars actual constant back and forths, rather than round one knock outs followed up by constantly stomping on the guy who got downed. They were basically loot pinatas, so it was just inviting them to spend more. I don't think it's particularly more interesting, but it's a matter of perspective. TRF besides Oberstein and Big Brother are mid tier more or less, so there's virtually no risk in beiging them. It's a 27 man alliance so none of the avalanche effects are really there. A coordinated and experienced larger alliance can do a lot more when given a large beige as opposed to an alliance that isn't as capable. It depends on the loot percentage. I saw TRF across the board lose tons of resources in the initial wars, making the war not too expensive for you. If beiging becomes the point and the loot is increased it'll eventually impoverish losers further. I get being sat on isn't fun but there's no incentive to fight if you don't accomplish anything or basically self-own in a more contentious war. Edit: Here's an example. VE in SRD's day ran 5% tax, so that meant a lot of their members had tons of cash on hand. This meant people that fought them like TKR(They bragged about most cash looted in NPOFT) and then later Mensa made bank off them and it contributed to their future domiannce. It's a huge assumption that it wouldn't turn the tide of the war and it would make people less willing to fight larger opponents. People who are declaring up keep bigger people down so they can't build up again to their full capacity. Let's say everyone was forced to beige GOB and Guardian constantly despite the updeclares taking effort to do and put together, it would start to get pretty annoying. The updeclares on the remaining super tier are working their way up 1 or 2 a time. Can they do that if the ones already hit can't be kept down at all? A large part of the later parts of war are fighting double buys by a larger nation. If you have to beige and they can always go back to their original strength, it's a huge issue and becomes virtually unviable to updeclare. It eliminates the point of there being a limit on what you can rebuy each day. Edited November 13, 2018 by Roquentin 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 @Roquentin when you airstrike money you don't take them, you just destroy them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Micchan said: @Roquentin when you airstrike money you don't take them, you just destroy them I didn't say I took the money. I said it wasn't any worse than you looting people and that if I could airstrike 4m, it was worth it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Roquentin said: They were basically loot pinatas, so it was just inviting them to spend more. I don't think it's particularly more interesting, but it's a matter of perspective. TRF besides Oberstein and Big Brother are mid tier more or less, so there's virtually no risk in beiging them. It's a 27 man alliance so none of the avalanche effects are really there. A coordinated and experienced larger alliance can do a lot more when given a large beige as opposed to an alliance that isn't as capable. It depends on the loot percentage. I saw TRF across the board lose tons of resources in the initial wars, making the war not too expensive for you. If beiging becomes the point and the loot is increased it'll eventually impoverish losers further. I get being sat on isn't fun but there's no incentive to fight if you don't accomplish anything or basically self-own in a more contentious war. It's a huge assumption that it wouldn't turn the tide of the war and it would make people less willing to fight larger opponents. People who are declaring up keep bigger people down so they can't build up again to their full capacity. Let's say everyone was forced to beige GOB and Guardian constantly despite the updeclares taking effort to do and put together, it would start to get pretty annoying. The updeclares on the remaining super tier are working their way up 1 or 2 a time. Can they do that if the ones already hit can't be kept down at all? A large part of the later parts of war are fighting double buys by a larger nation. If you have to beige and they can always go back to their original strength, it's a huge issue and becomes virtually unviable to updeclare. It eliminates the point of there being a limit on what you can rebuy each day. Yeah, we learned they were loot pinatas after we had declared the wars (doing spy ops prior to that would've thrown away the surprise element, and killing off spies always takes priority). And again, it was more interesting than just going with the safe approach of stagger, denial and pinning (there was some risk on beiging them, as we didn't know how would their ties react to the war), which wasn't really necessary in this case. These sorts of war impoverish the losing side the further it goes on, loot or not. Be it due to aspects that can be easily reflected, such as military/infra damages, or less obvious variables, such as lost income/refined production (particularly when the wars draw for longer and improvements losses stack up, and you have to either refit your cities midwar, or deal with a considerably reduced rebuy potential). And if anything, loot gains as a whole decline as the war goes on (again, talking about a setting like this one) when compared to the first rounds, simply because of usage, banking, and/or decline on stockpiles as they're looted. As is the case with infra and standing military, the first round is the most painful one. As for motivation to fight back, it depends on what you set your goal to be. Is such a war winnable by the losing side? Almost certainly no. Can he try to close the damage? Yes. Can he simply do so to avoid giving the other party an easy, painless war? Yes. Winning/losing shouldn't be the only consideration; trying to get even, if only a little bit, is an objective worth pursuing. You mean my two cents regarding shortening the individual war's duration? It wouldn't change the tides of a war, no. If you mean auto beiges, then yes, it would change the dynamic substantally. Which I did point out in my first post. *Edit.* As for your example with SRD, I had already covered that aspect in my first post regarding adjusting taxes (by which I meant, increasing) during wartime. Edited November 13, 2018 by Shiho Nishizumi Some fixes and extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Kell Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I BELIEVE WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT I need another refill in popcorn... Quote Listen to J Kell's new single: About The Author An early member of Roz Wei in 2015, J Kell went on to stay within the paperless world of Empyrea before signing with Soup Kitchen while scoring a record deal in 2019. J Kell went on to release multiple Orbis Top 40 hits. In 2020, J Kell took a break from Orbis. He's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blink Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) The real way to make the wars fairer, more interesting and actually have strategy and tactics involved is it have unit sub categories. Each sub unit has strengths and weakness against others for example a Sam tank that hits planes but is a ground unit that defends poorly against normal tanks. Maybe a naval boat that targets infantry but take big damage from a destroyer type naval ship etc etc. This will make any wars a better challenge and a lot more fun. Edited November 13, 2018 by Blink 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Kell Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, Blink said: The real way to make the wars fairer, more interesting and actually have strategy and tactics involved is it have unit sub categories. Each sub unit has strengths and weakness against others for example a Sam tank that hits planes but is a ground unit. Maybe a naval boat that targets infantry etc etc. This will make any wars a better challenge and a lot more fun. That would be cool, but way to complicated and would take forever to code and implement. Tweaking the actual stats would take forever afterward as people complain about such and such being too powerful. You are making a mountain out of a molehill Quote Listen to J Kell's new single: About The Author An early member of Roz Wei in 2015, J Kell went on to stay within the paperless world of Empyrea before signing with Soup Kitchen while scoring a record deal in 2019. J Kell went on to release multiple Orbis Top 40 hits. In 2020, J Kell took a break from Orbis. He's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Blink said: The real way to make the wars fairer, more interesting and actually have strategy and tactics involved is it have unit sub categories. Each sub unit has strengths and weakness against others for example a Sam tank that hits planes but is a ground unit that defends poorly against normal tanks. Maybe a naval boat that targets infantry but take big damage from a destroyer type naval ship etc etc. This will make any wars a better challenge and a lot more fun. I honestly don't see that happening (mostly due to the extensive amount of effort and balancing it'd require), though I can suggest you to pick up Wargame: Red Dragon if you're interested in that sort of stuff . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan77 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) All I see here is NPO complaining about unconventional tactics. Here's the thing. The suggestions provided by NPO would effectively make nukes and missiles totally irrelevant, dragging us back to the "6 grounds to beige" meta tactics wise. As a person who played back then, let me say that if you got dogpiled back then, you lost period. You couldn't do jack against superior numbers of conventional units. There were no paths to winning through some bizarre combination of tactics. Even worse, if we maintain current mechanics, that means that there wouldn't even exist the old-school nuke-beiging mechanic to win. At least in the current meta, you can do things being outnumbered in every conventional military category currently and win a war or two. Any change to the war system must maintain this, otherwise, the game will literally go to a I do war and sit on my enemies, and they can't do anything. That's not a multiplayer game that anyone would enjoy on either side, as there would be literally nothing to do after round 1. Literally what would happen is after the first few rounds and conventional military has been wiped across the board in some tier, you abandon those nations completely until the war is over. Currently, you can try for a nuke beige or a missile beige, such options do not exist in your suggestion. That's not a game, that's literal boredom for both sides in that tier. Congratulations, you've killed the game. Also in regards to Frawley's claim of x damage. You really think that alliances go into a war thinking that we're gonna cause x damage to the enemy and then end the war? That's BS. Also, as stated by others, even if you did, I assure you you won't succeed, as Alliances may want specific terms such as white peace or reps or whatnot, and decide to stick it out longer for that specific reason. Also the claim that TGH is the successor of Mensa is BS. Most of Mensa is in Guardian. Edit: Forgot to mention that I would've liked the auto-beige mechanic in the wars against TGH/KT and Nuke bloc. That would've made things interesting as I'm sure hippo would've been able to do a off-time blitz on some of our less active folk in round 3/4 with conventional units, forcing us to counter them out of the blue. IDK if nuke bloc could've taken advantage of it, but it would've made things more interesting, as one would have to play around such mid-war blitzes. Edited November 13, 2018 by japan77 2 4 2 Quote I don't sleep enough Also, I am an Keynesian Utilitarian Lastly, Hello world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, Blink said: The real way to make the wars fairer, more interesting and actually have strategy and tactics involved is it have unit sub categories. Each sub unit has strengths and weakness against others for example a Sam tank that hits planes but is a ground unit that defends poorly against normal tanks. Maybe a naval boat that targets infantry but take big damage from a destroyer type naval ship etc etc. This will make any wars a better challenge and a lot more fun. There was a game around for a while that did this, called NationsGame. It was pretty cool, but the admin kinda disappeared, the game never grew much and it's very dead now. In this game there were various units. Infantry, no bonuses, 3 atk 3 def. National Guard, 1atk, 2 def with 40% bonus to def when in your garrison. Mortar infantry, 3 and 3 like normal, but a 30% bonus attack against infantry, and other units. Some had bonuses vs planes or tanks or bunkers. However, in this game, infact @Maelstrom Vortex will know, as i was once in the NPO there under him, you needed 5 victories to win a war, and a battle, especially for larger nations, could take hours. Not 2, or even 4. Some of these were so huge i think they might have gone on for days even, real life days, though i can't quite remember, as in this game your allies could send defensive divisions to you, and you could coordinate multiple armies to attack, and since divisions were size 25 for a long time, you could get hundreds of units fighting a single battle. While it was really cool, it was veeeeeeery slow. Much slower than PW now, MUCH slower. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek26 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Every day I'm more grateful Mensa quit this game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Kell Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Vanek26 said: Every day I'm more grateful Mensa quit this game. It always comes back to Mensa 1 Quote Listen to J Kell's new single: About The Author An early member of Roz Wei in 2015, J Kell went on to stay within the paperless world of Empyrea before signing with Soup Kitchen while scoring a record deal in 2019. J Kell went on to release multiple Orbis Top 40 hits. In 2020, J Kell took a break from Orbis. He's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: NPO doesn't think its fair that they have to up declare in wars? In the 1000 days+ history of NPO they have increased their average city count from around 10 to slightly above 15. which means they have spent approximately 52 billion (this seems like alot... its not) to get 150 nations from 10-15 over the course of 1000+ days. This is the first war you have fought in over 6 months! What the hell have you been doing? For comparison, Grumpy started 780 days ago at a 20 city average, and now is at 30 cities, which means our 25 nations would have spent 169 billion to get from 20 to 30. Ronny I know you're new the the whole war thing, but NPO has actually fought in numerous wars since it's inception (and lost all of them) and is relevant to the game community, GoB has had the luxury of doing nothing for 780 days...stop comparing the two and stop spouting stupidity that makes me actually defend NPO. Edited November 13, 2018 by Darth Revan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Darth Revan said: Ronny I know you're new the the whole war thing, but NPO has actually fought in numerous wars since it's inception (and lost all of them) and is relevant to the game community, GoB has had the luxury of doing nothing for 780 days...stop comparing the two and stop spouting stupidity that makes me actually defend NPO. NPO never won a war and Grumpy never did a war and never had to rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Thrawn Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 4 hours ago, japan77 said: All I see here is NPO complaining about unconventional tactics. I don't think you read the thread correctly in that case. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Vanek26 said: Every day I'm more grateful Mensa quit this game. You're welcome. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Kell Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Darth Revan said: Ronny I know you're new the the whole war thing, but NPO has actually fought in numerous wars since it's inception (and lost all of them) and is relevant to the game community, GoB has had the luxury of doing nothing for 780 days...stop comparing the two and stop spouting stupidity that makes me actually defend NPO. This, this right here... Ronny, go home... You just got slammed Quote Listen to J Kell's new single: About The Author An early member of Roz Wei in 2015, J Kell went on to stay within the paperless world of Empyrea before signing with Soup Kitchen while scoring a record deal in 2019. J Kell went on to release multiple Orbis Top 40 hits. In 2020, J Kell took a break from Orbis. He's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 4 hours ago, japan77 said: Forgot to mention that I would've liked the auto-beige mechanic in the wars against TGH/KT and Nuke bloc. That would've made things interesting as I'm sure hippo would've been able to do a off-time blitz on some of our less active folk in round 3/4 with conventional units, forcing us to counter them out of the blue. IDK if nuke bloc could've taken advantage of it, but it would've made things more interesting, as one would have to play around such mid-war blitzes. We would abuse the mechanic, that is true. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buorhann said: We would abuse the mechanic, that is true. Something something legitimate military tactics blah blah not abuse etc. etc. Stop bullying TGH, you Edited November 13, 2018 by Sir Scarfalot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radoje Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 8:57 AM, Shadowthrone said: Haha, okay let me break this down for you shall I? Going in Round 1, we're dealing with TKR at 6-8 city up declares in a lot of cases, and multiple other ranges of fighting. We aren't going to go suicide crazy and waste resources knowing fully well that we in the NPO would be doing more harm than good, especially in terms of the maximum output of damage we'd be doing. Us up declaring 8-10 cities at 16, literally does nothing of value in comparison to having 23-24 city nations up declaring the same range of cities. It's pure mechanics. I'm running 10k tanks and have been at max mil for most of this war, when it made sense to shift. I've fought 11 city up declares, and fought folks across all ranges. So yeah sit back down. We've stepped into ranges where we can across the board to help you folks up concentrate in ranges we cannot hope to compete and will continue doing so. If the goal is to have us build up to 15k tanks in Round 1 and get into ranges where we do cannot financially compete, just for the sake of it, we'd be tapping out in round 1. So yeah I can be a mouthy fool because I actually know our capabilities and limitations as an alliance and have been helping move this war along internally in the NPO. So I actually know what we can and cannot do. We haven't let ya'll take upper tier damage because we're scared of pixels. We've expanded the war and took slots across the board to help out where we could and stepped aside and moved on with our job. How noble of you to join a dogpile and help your allies go into a war where you have 250 nations in the same tier and updeclare on 40 people in TKR without getting countered, while watching them burn down in the first rounds because you're scared to lose steel. They really should thank you taking the brunt of this war. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Akuryo said: There was a game around for a while that did this, called NationsGame. It was pretty cool, but the admin kinda disappeared, the game never grew much and it's very dead now. In this game there were various units. Infantry, no bonuses, 3 atk 3 def. National Guard, 1atk, 2 def with 40% bonus to def when in your garrison. Mortar infantry, 3 and 3 like normal, but a 30% bonus attack against infantry, and other units. Some had bonuses vs planes or tanks or bunkers. However, in this game, infact @Maelstrom Vortex will know, as i was once in the NPO there under him, you needed 5 victories to win a war, and a battle, especially for larger nations, could take hours. Not 2, or even 4. Some of these were so huge i think they might have gone on for days even, real life days, though i can't quite remember, as in this game your allies could send defensive divisions to you, and you could coordinate multiple armies to attack, and since divisions were size 25 for a long time, you could get hundreds of units fighting a single battle. While it was really cool, it was veeeeeeery slow. Much slower than PW now, MUCH slower. I have been summoned from the depths... who are you? What were you called there? I helped voluntarily author the war system in that game, proposing changes that lead to its evolution into a random roll type warfare. It evolved into more complex distinct units with specific capabilities and counter capabilities. What Akuryo has said is correct, the longest war ever in that game lasted an entire real-time week and was staffed by the players 24/7 in 8 hour rotations in the NPO to make sure our nations were never unmanned. I consider it it one of the greatest logistical successes I've ever had in such a game. We defeated automated systems rigged to guarantee our defeat. What killed the game was less the system.. more the fact there were easy exploits and script kiddies were allowed to run amok automating every aspect of the game to their benefit, resulting in a human player alone being unable to be successful on that world. I left when I realized it was heading in that direction and the whole thing basically self-destructed.But I am happy to say, I reigned there for a year undefeated in battle.. ever.. out of sheer force of Pacifican will. Pacifica didn't only not ever lose a war there.. it never lost.. a single battle during my reign. Despite two world wars. I also accidentally dismantled Pacifica there when I left because they had no mechanism of transferring alliance ownership easily among players. Another HUGE flaw that should have been addressed at the beginning, but never was. Happy to know someone remembers my golden days other than me. It always has been my opinion the war system there was not flawed. It was the lack of proper administration which fundamentally undid the world because the administrator had it as a side project without any true unbiased moderation staff to successfully reign in the abuses.The war system, in fact, in my eyes.. was a masterpiece if it had been better implemented and executed. If a similar system were implemented in a method where the battles were on a case-by-case or singular instances rather than an ongoing process that had to be managed by all involved, kind of keep the current turn based setup, but creating unique units.. that may in fact work well. It would reduce the demand on the players to be ever present, while providing a diversity of combat options. Maelstrom Vortex, Dragon God of War, Former Emperor, NPO - Petram Edited November 13, 2018 by Maelstrom Vortex 1 1 Quote V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞ >! . 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Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: I have been summoned from the depths... who are you? What were you called there? I helped author the war system in that game, proposing changes that lead to its evolution into a random roll type warfare. It evolved into more complex distinct units with specific capabilities and counter capabilities. What Akuryo has said is correct, the longest war ever in that game lasted an entire real-time week and was staffed by the players 24/7 in 8 hour rotations in the NPO to make sure our nations were never unmanned. I consider it it one of the greatest logistical successes I've ever had in such a game. What killed the game was less the system.. more the fact there were easy exploits and script kiddies were allowed to run amok automating every aspect of the game to their benefit, resulting in a human player alone being unable to be successful on that world. I left when I realized it was heading in that direction and the whole thing basically self-destructed.But I am happy to say, I reigned there for a year undefeated in battle.. ever.. out of sheer force of Pacifican will. I also accidentally dismantled Pacifica there when I left because they had no mechanism of transferring alliance ownership easily among players. Another HUGE flaw that should have been addressed at the beginning, but never was. Happy to know someone remembers my golden days other than me. It always has been my opinion the war system there was not flawed. It was the lack of proper administration which fundamentally undid the world because the administrator had it as a side project without any true unbiased moderation staff to successfully reign in the abuses.The war system, in fact, in my eyes.. was a masterpiece if it had been better implemented and executed. Maelstrom Vortex, Dragon God of War, Former Emperor, NPO - Petram Hell if i remember, it might've been Typhoon i think? Maybe Shadow something or Dawn even. I'm certain it was one of those, but i do remember being there with you, and getting a colonist as reparations from war once. I don't think it was a bad system, but since peoples goal here is to make wars faster, and what they described reminded me of it, it seemed relevant to note it was much slower. Also alot more interesting, of course, but much much much slower. It was a good time while it lasted, if only the game had blossomed, it may have pulled me into NPO here too. You guys have these 2 lonely 19 cities anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Akuryo said: Hell if i remember, it might've been Typhoon i think? Maybe Shadow something or Dawn even. I'm certain it was one of those, but i do remember being there with you, and getting a colonist as reparations from war once. I don't think it was a bad system, but since peoples goal here is to make wars faster, and what they described reminded me of it, it seemed relevant to note it was much slower. Also alot more interesting, of course, but much much much slower. It was a good time while it lasted, if only the game had blossomed, it may have pulled me into NPO here too. You guys have these 2 lonely 19 cities anyway. I regret having left this world (Orbis) when it first began because the system was so rough then, but at that point Pacifica hadn't been taking it seriously. Should have stuck to it. You were Typhoon then, I remember that name clearly. Good to see you in another realm. We seem to want the wars to last a full 5 days or until there is a clear defeat. Sub-units won't dramatically affect pacing unless they are allowed to. The pace of those wars was less determined by the units themselves and more by the fact that units could be repaired on the battlefield. THat's what caused the wars to last weeks. PS. If you're reading the rp I'm writing about my wars.. Mael's suit is a dragon-type gear-hound brought from Petram. Edited November 14, 2018 by Maelstrom Vortex 1 Quote V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞ >! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 The beige mechanic in general is cooked and needs a full rethink. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnugia Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Avakael said: The beige mechanic in general is cooked and needs a full rethink. I am just spitballing here... What about a rebuy voucher that lets you buy 2 days worth of units? But shorten the beige to one day and make it resettable rather than stackable? Add this with the auto beige idea. Quote Opinions are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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