2018 PnW Awards Announcement

[Spaceman Thrax]

26 minutes ago, TheNG Rising said:

"The worst thing about democracy is when people actually show up and vote, particularly for things I don't like."
- Thrax

Also obligatory

Lol. Good one. Too bad Sval is the funniest player. : (

Seriously though IQ essentially admitted they were trying to spoil the ballots last year, because they were upset about how things had gone the year previous. That's what I mean. If the entire thing is going to boil down to "who has the most players and who is most aggressive about telling them to vote", eh, have fun, but I pass.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Spaceman Thrax

[The Mad Titan]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

That's what I mean. If the entire thing is going to boil down to "who has the most players and who is most aggressive about telling them to vote", eh, have fun, but I pass.

So literally Democracy

[Smith]

Reminder that since CS disbanded, TKR is still technically the most honorable alliance

Edited November 8, 2018 by Smith

[Guest Curufinwe]

34 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Lol. Good one. Too bad Sval is the funniest player. : (

Seriously though IQ essentially admitted they were trying to spoil the ballots last year, because they were upset about how things had gone the year previous. That's what I mean. If the entire thing is going to boil down to "who has the most players and who is most aggressive about telling them to vote", eh, have fun, but I pass.

IQ didn't exist when the 2016 awards were held, so suggesting that we stacked the 2017 awards in retribution for the previous year is baseless.  In fact, in December 2016 (cuz, remember, IQ formed in March 2017) BK, what eventually became Zodiac and CS were still in Syndi-OO, so we didn't have any particular ax to grind regarding how that year's voting went.  And, just like I told you last year when you contacted me in DMs to complain about the IQ turnout, people voting doesn't 'spoil' the process, it enriches it, since the whole point should be encourage as much participation as possible.  That's the point of a democratic poll after all ?

23 minutes ago, Smith said:

Reminder that since CS disbanded, TKR is still technically the most honorable alliance

Nah, as CS's legal successor we co-opted that award along with their members.  You guys can try for it this year though.

[Radoje]

@Kastor I appreciate that you're going out of your way to do a community service. I don't care about the implications, as any vote is going to be rigged to the people that are at a disadvantage. I'm happy that you're making an effort to do something fun for the community, kill em bro.

[Roq]

7 hours ago, Kastor said:

1. Instead of public voting, we do secret ones that are counted by multiple people, so there’s no way of rigging the vote.

 

Wouldn't that just make the public unaware... I mean, if there's five people counting the votes, all of whom I'll guess that you know, wouldn't they rig it if it was for a "good" cause for you? Not saying you would, but public voting would be nice. 

[Kastor]

17 minutes ago, CitrusK said:

Wouldn't that just make the public unaware... I mean, if there's five people counting the votes, all of whom I'll guess that you know, wouldn't they rig it if it was for a "good" cause for you? Not saying you would, but public voting would be nice. 

The public is going to be voting. I'm not sure what you're even saying.

[Guest Curufinwe]

12 minutes ago, Kastor said:

The public is going to be voting. I'm not sure what you're even saying.

He's expressing concern that you and your unbiased assistants will fiddle with the vote totals and people won't be able to verify because the totals are secret.  You know, that thing other people have raised concerns about.

[Auctor]

There should really be a vote as to whom we as a community authorize to hold a vote.

[Sir Scarfalot]

1 hour ago, CitrusK said:

Wouldn't that just make the public unaware... I mean, if there's five people counting the votes, all of whom I'll guess that you know, wouldn't they rig it if it was for a "good" cause for you? Not saying you would, but public voting would be nice. 

 

1 hour ago, Curufinwe said:

He's expressing concern that you and your unbiased assistants will fiddle with the vote totals and people won't be able to verify because the totals are secret.  You know, that thing other people have raised concerns about.

The polls will be completely transparent and public information after the awards are distributed. You'll be able to validate and check to your hearts' content; poll each individual voter if you want and ask if their vote was registered properly. Any rigging would be completely visible.

The fact of the matter is that secret ballots are held for these things all the time, the reason being to preserve the suspense for the awards show. You can trust this as much or more than you can trust the Nobel prizes or the Academy awards; they do it this way too.

42 minutes ago, Auctor said:

There should really be a vote as to whom we as a community authorize to hold a vote.

Or you could volunteer to work alongside Kastor to ensure that the vote is up to your own standards of integrity. I might do that myself

Edited November 9, 2018 by Sir Scarfalot

[Aksel]

I'm down for a good system  - if ORB Weekly can help out in any way, let us know.

[Smith]

3 hours ago, Curufinwe said:

Nah, as CS's legal successor we co-opted that award along with their members.  You guys can try for it this year though.

Well I see this is important to you, so I will let you have it. 

 

That after all, is the honorable thing to do. 

[Sketchy]

I don't see what the argument about vote rigging is. Unless you pull some weird shit where you have a set number of reps from each alliance vote, a direct democratic vote is always going to lean in the direction of alliances with more members who are active.

The votes have never been unbiased or reflective of reality, which is why no one should really put any stock into them anyway. Its also why sheepy shouldn't make ingame awards for them. They are just a novelty sideshow for the community to focus on for a few weeks at the end of the year.

Just do it with a forum poll that is public so people can see who voted for what, and people will determine how biased the outcome is on their own and whether they should pay attention to it. 

[Prefontaine]

Kastor clearly didn’t like the outcome of last year’s election so he’s trying to rig this year’s. #boycottawards #novotersupression  

 

 

 

[Thor]

Transparency or no vote.

[J Kell]

I for one believe that these are great ideas and don't understand why people are complaining about "rigging"...  You all act like there aren't elites who decided everything for us every day, hell the only people who win these awards are elites.  ELITES ALWAYS GET THE FINAL SAY!

[kalev60]

Sekret things get corrupted first as easy as that  !

[Kastor]

I think that most of the backlash to this idea is that people are worried about the transparency of the vote, but since thats dumb considering that the vote is transparent just until after the election. So unless there's a legit reason to say no, due to the DM's I've gotten, and several people in this thread, we're probably going to go along with this. 

 

So far the other 3 people who have confirmed to help are TheNG, Dynamic, and Sir Scarfalot. All are seasoned members of the community and from 3 different "sides" of the political spectrum. 

There are about 2-3 more spots open, and 1 person  has been asked, pending certain things. So feel free to message me about joining. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Kastor

[Edward I]

4 hours ago, Kastor said:

I think that most of the backlash to this idea is that people are worried about the transparency of the vote, but since thats dumb considering that the vote is transparent just until after the election. So unless there's a legit reason to say no, due to the DM's I've gotten, and several people in this thread, we're probably going to go along with this.

It's not "dumb".  The only way to "rig" a vote is to tamper with the voting results themselves, and secrecy is a necessary precondition for that to happen.  Your proposed solution to a non-problem happens to be the first step towards actually rigging the vote.  Voting - regardless of the motivation - is, by definition, outside the scope of "rigging".

If your mechanism for publicizing the vote results is to change the settings of a forum poll from secret to public, that's probably fine (I'm not sure if this is possible since I've never made a forum poll).  Otherwise, do a publicly visible poll hosted on these forums (see below for why).

 

On 11/8/2018 at 9:58 AM, Kastor said:

2. Instead of the usual public view of awards, we hold a radio show(Kev and Charlie will hopefully help out), and the show is where the Awards are announced and people can actually get up and say a few words about their awards(we’ll try to pick a neutral time and get the top 3 to join, for alliance awards-they can send any gov member).

This is a semi-official annual event and it should happen on the official P&W forums.  If there's a radio show in parallel that all are welcome to listen to, that's great.  But for players who can't be online for the radio show, don't use Discord, or aren't actively playing right now (whether because they're inactive or because they're future players who haven't found P&W yet), having the annual awards documented on the forums is necessary.

 

As Sketchy already said, the vote tallies on these questions will never be seen as objective truth, and they'll always be unfair in the sense that the voting boils down to a popularity contest.  The best way to run this is to use the voting as a way to start a public conversation about the last year on Orbis.  Rather than trying to artificially inject surprise into them, treat the annual awards as a forum to recognize the good and not-so-good work that's been done over the past twelve months.

[Aksel]

2 hours ago, Edward I said:

It's not "dumb".  The only way to "rig" a vote is to tamper with the voting results themselves, and secrecy is a necessary precondition for that to happen.  Your proposed solution to a non-problem happens to be the first step towards actually rigging the vote.  Voting - regardless of the motivation - is, by definition, outside the scope of "rigging".

If your mechanism for publicizing the vote results is to change the settings of a forum poll from secret to public, that's probably fine (I'm not sure if this is possible since I've never made a forum poll).  Otherwise, do a publicly visible poll hosted on these forums (see below for why).

 

This is a semi-official annual event and it should happen on the official P&W forums.  If there's a radio show in parallel that all are welcome to listen to, that's great.  But for players who can't be online for the radio show, don't use Discord, or aren't actively playing right now (whether because they're inactive or because they're future players who haven't found P&W yet), having the annual awards documented on the forums is necessary.

 

As Sketchy already said, the vote tallies on these questions will never be seen as objective truth, and they'll always be unfair in the sense that the voting boils down to a popularity contest.  The best way to run this is to use the voting as a way to start a public conversation about the last year on Orbis.  Rather than trying to artificially inject surprise into them, treat the annual awards as a forum to recognize the good and not-so-good work that's been done over the past twelve months.

^ All good stuff.

[Kevanovia]

9 hours ago, Kastor said:

I think that most of the backlash to this idea is that people are worried about the transparency of the vote, but since thats dumb considering that the vote is transparent just until after the election. So unless there's a legit reason to say no, due to the DM's I've gotten, and several people in this thread, we're probably going to go along with this. 

 

So far the other 3 people who have confirmed to help are TheNG, Dynamic, and Sir Scarfalot. All are seasoned members of the community and from 3 different "sides" of the political spectrum. 

There are about 2-3 more spots open, and 1 person  has been asked, pending certain things. So feel free to message me about joining. 

Charlie and I are more than happy to lend our tremendous talents to such a good cause. Our god-like voices, good looks, and unparalleled creativity could be of good use for your project.

[Charlie Traveler]

Additionally, we will record the show and make it available to people who might not be able to squeeze this glorious event into their schedules. We are always down to support initiatives that enrich our vibrant community. ?

[Buorhann]

>vibrant

That's such a great positive word to use here.

[Sval]

On 11/8/2018 at 9:42 PM, Spaceman Thrax said:

Lol. Good one. Too bad Sval is the funniest player. : (

It keeps me up at night.

[Sir Scarfalot]

You know, the whole debate about the ballots being secret or not is easily solved by @Alex being involved in the process, just like in the "administrator statement" pinned at the top of this subforum.